Differences between pointers and GSP's

Hotchkiss · Post by **Hotchkiss** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:30 pm

What are the biggest differences between pointers and GSP's. I suspect everyone has their favorites. I am not trying to figure out which is your favorite, just looking for an objective summary of the differences because I have never been around pointers. Thanks a million.

cmc274 · Post by **cmc274** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:35 pm

I am going to take the moral low road and say the tails.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:08 pm

Pointers come in four colors.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:23 pm

Confirmation is different and I think there is somewhat of a difference in attitude many times.

Ezzy

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:27 pm

In my limited experience the GSP i owned was a bit high strung all the time and the EP i had was very mellow in the house and a Machine in the field, both were good hunters in my case both had very good natural retrieves and were very nice dogs.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:04 pm

Pointers have been bread soo much with GSP's the only difference is the colors. Basically you can have a pointer in a GSP litter all you have to do is not crop the tail and whalaa pointer..

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:06 pm

cmc274 wrote:I am going to take the moral low road and say the tails.

+1, that's a hall of fame response

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:22 pm

Hotchkiss wrote:What are the biggest differences between pointers and GSP's. I suspect everyone has their favorites. I am not trying to figure out which is your favorite, just looking for an objective summary of the differences because I have never been around pointers. Thanks a million.

One has a docked tail so it don't bleed so much. One usually has a lot more white on the body so it is easier to spot in cover.

Between the best of both breeds, there ain't much difference where it counts.

RayG

Post by **slistoe** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:51 pm

ultracarry wrote:Pointers have been bread soo much with GSP's the only difference is the colors. Basically you can have a pointer in a GSP litter all you have to do is not crop the tail and whalaa pointer..

Ya mean like the one in your avatar?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:05 pm

English pointers are probably Arabian and French and German shorthaired pointers are primarily Italian, with both having an influx of Spanish blood.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:22 pm

I have seen a difference in the athleticism between the GSP's and the EP's I have had. EP's tend to be faster, more endurance etc. Just my limited experience.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:25 pm

slistoe wrote:
ultracarry wrote:Pointers have been bread soo much with GSP's the only difference is the colors. Basically you can have a pointer in a GSP litter all you have to do is not crop the tail and whalaa pointer..
Ya mean like the one in your avatar?

Ya its like cheating when your dog gives some people a duck (see other thread). No one said a GSP can't have a tail. They just said it shouldn't be one 60%. What ever it is I like it! And when she has lips I will try to repeat that length.

BTW are you following and quoting me everywhere? You must like that pic so ill change it.

Post by **slistoe** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:30 pm

Wasn't trying to follow you - just happened you struck a couple of "interesting" posts.

Forgive my sense of humor.
Nothing wrong with your avatar IMO.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:40 pm

Good I won't change it then. That was for her first bday took her out and shot 12 birds and 6 over the water.

x Bred Pointer · Post by **x Bred Pointer** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:30 am

I've had both and currently have pointers.
Shorthairs are better at game recovery for sure.
They also have that desire for fur that the pointers seem to grow out of.
Pointers are lighter footed in the grouse woods and break-out much easier. IMHO

rkappes · Post by **rkappes** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:42 am

I don't know a lot about either breed. Wouldn't mind owning either of them but was wondering how come some of the pointers have the real distinct "dish" face and others not so much? Just differences in the line?

Quill Gordon · Post by **Quill Gordon** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:22 am

Pointers have been bread soo much with GSP's the only difference is the colors

Thats a shame

Post by **slistoe** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:35 am

rkappes wrote:I don't know a lot about either breed. Wouldn't mind owning either of them but was wondering how come some of the pointers have the real distinct "dish" face and others not so much? Just differences in the line?

Because the Pointers have been bred so much with the GSP's that they don't look like Pointers anymore, they look like GSP's.

Post by **slistoe** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:35 am

Quill Gordon wrote:
Pointers have been bread soo much with GSP's the only difference is the colors
Thats a shame

Yeah, I liked it better when Pointers looked like Pointers and not like GSP's.

ymepointer · Post by **ymepointer** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:40 am

Michael Seminatore wrote a book in the 1970's called I believe "YOUR BIRD DOG and YOU" or something like that and in that book he has a short chapter on each of the major breeds of pointing dog....you should see the writeup on the GSP and the POINTER...back then the difference was Night and day...today they both look just like a pointer

I'll see if I can scan the pages, you non shortney folks will get a kick out of it...the Shortney guys probably won't

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:51 am

I like the versitility of the GSP, i like a dog for upland and waterfowl

now that i think of it i dont like tails much thats why i also have a boxer and use to have a rotti (R.I.P)..does anyone have an EP they hunt waterfowl with?...ruth

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:51 am

There are two distinct types of pointers. There is the AKC style pointer which has the dished face that was referenced. They also tend to be a bit "jowly". They conform to the description of the pointer as written by the AKC affiliated American Pointer Club. Then there is the FDSB type pointer that usually has a much more snipey nose. It typically does not conform to the AKC pointer description all that closely. Elhew pointers are an FDSB strain that has some of both physical characteristics.

Prarie - Thank you for the correction. You are, of course correct. I call brain fart.

Bottom line - even though dogs may be genetically identical, when they are systematically selected for breeding according to differing sets of abilities and systematically trained to bring out the best in those differing sets of abilities, a significant difference in performance can often exist.

The converse is also true. Different breeds of dogs, if systematically selected and trained for a certain type of performance will often perform ad even behave very similarly to dogs from other breeds that are selected and trained for the same tasks.

RayG

Quill Gordon · Post by **Quill Gordon** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:23 am

The converse is also true. Different breeds of dogs, if systematically selected and trained for a certain type of performance will often perform ad even behave very similarly to dogs from other breeds that are selected and trained for the same tasks.

RayG

Very true. I have noticed this with training my first GSP from Labs for 27 yrs. Quite a drastic change was my original thought but I'm finding the hound is behaving similar other than the obvious range and points

Quill Gordon · Post by **Quill Gordon** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:28 am

slistoe wrote:
Quill Gordon wrote:
Pointers have been bread soo much with GSP's the only difference is the colors
Thats a shame
Yeah, I liked it better when Pointers looked like Pointers and not like GSP's.

Okay, I guess it goes both ways

Grouse Dog Guy · Post by **Grouse Dog Guy** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:32 am

The big difference is the people that own them, GSP owners develop a personalty much like their dogs while pointer people just field trial and hunt birds.

GSPdude · Post by **GSPdude** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:12 am

Grouse Dog Guy wrote:The big difference is the people that own them, GSP owners develop a personalty much like their dogs while pointer people just field trial and hunt birds.

Right! GSP's and their owners tend to be hard workers, while pointers and their owners always seem to be on vacation.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:40 am

GSPdude wrote:
Grouse Dog Guy wrote:The big difference is the people that own them, GSP owners develop a personalty much like their dogs while pointer people just field trial and hunt birds.
Right! GSP's and their owners tend to be hard workers, while pointers and their owners always seem to be on vacation.

....ruth

Grouse Dog Guy · Post by **Grouse Dog Guy** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:55 am

GSPdude wrote:
Grouse Dog Guy wrote:The big difference is the people that own them, GSP owners develop a personalty much like their dogs while pointer people just field trial and hunt birds.
Right! GSP's and their owners tend to be hard workers, while pointers and their owners always seem to be on vacation.

Pointer people have just learned it doesn't have to be a full time job. :roll:

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:04 am

Stroked or bored? About the same question.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:38 pm

Go to a Major Championship pointer trial and go to a Major Championship GSP trial. I love both breeds. But if you do what i mentioned, you'll have your answer.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:42 pm

ElhewPointer wrote:Go to a Major Championship pointer trial and go to a Major Championship GSP trial. I love both breeds. But if you do what i mentioned, you'll have your answer.

There are no major championship "pointer" trials.

ymepointer · Post by **ymepointer** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:05 pm

="Cajun Casey

There are no major championship "pointer" trials.

Roger that,

All major Championship AF trials are open to ALL breeds

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:10 pm

ymepointer wrote:
="Cajun Casey

There are no major championship "pointer" trials.

Roger that,

All major Championship AF trials are open to ALL breeds

For crying out loud people. You knew what I meant.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:20 pm

ElhewPointer wrote:
ymepointer wrote:
="Cajun Casey

There are no major championship "pointer" trials.

Roger that,

All major Championship AF trials are open to ALL breeds
For crying out loud people. You knew what I meant.

Yes, I knew exactly what you meant. You meant that a bobtails isn't born that can hold its own consistently against longtail competition.

jasonw99 · Post by **jasonw99** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:46 pm

ohhh I love this threD. couldn't agree more on the navdha part.

If a shorthair is full of pointer then why wouldn't it be able to hold it's own with a pointer? the tail length?
not saying there isn't slot of pointer in a shirthair. afterall the last word in German shirthair pointer. is pointer

I think the athletecism is the same if ubcompare field trial shorthair to pointers.

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:27 pm

I would like to see a lab past UT NAVHDA test , most won`t get past the duck search part.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:34 pm

Hattrick wrote:I would like to see a lab past UT NAVHDA test , most won`t get past the duck search part.

The topic is Differences between Pointers and GSP's. Lets keep it on topic please.

Ezzy

jasonw99 · Post by **jasonw99** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:36 pm

I always look at it like this. a pointing dog points birds. a lab retrieves ducks. a flushing dog hunts close.

so since I have a pointing dog I don't want him to hunt close I don't want to take him out in frigid water to retrieve ducks

I have did a few hunt tests in navhda. my dog got marked downbecause he wasn't hunting in a field with 3 inch grass rather hunted the tree lines if the field where the birds would be. pointed 4 birds held for the flush and the marked him down because he was "self hunting". his range was too much. if u ask me he was very productive. more productive than thevmajority of the dogs.
hence my opinion on navhda is personal experience. if I wanted a dog that hunts close I would get a lab

jasonw99 · Post by **jasonw99** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:39 pm

sorry ezzy I got sucked in to a different topic

the answer about the difference really. is one has a docked tail the other doesn't. they are the same lineage.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:05 pm

Gpblitz,
It's funny that the trainer who has my dog now only got one placement. I did the hunt tests and the placements speaking of having HUA....

There are close and farther working dogs from both breeds. You were the one that started taking down on an event.again HUA.

If the OP was really wanting an answer and not trying to stir the pot he would be doing research. Everyone knows if you train a dog based off of a forum you will have one that won't point, retrieve, handle. People are on here just to BS and get ideas.

Once you pull your head put blitz and stop thinking your boot licking duck searching dogs are the best maybe you will expand. Have you ever though about a duck search being pointless if your dog can mark a bird and retrieve it.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:39 pm

If you can't like them first and foremost because they are dogs, then perhaps you should reconsider having them at all.

FYI, we see about the same number of both in rescue.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:45 pm

ultracarry wrote:Once you pull your head put blitz and stop thinking your boot licking duck searching dogs are the best maybe you will expand. Have you ever though about a duck search being pointless if your dog can mark a bird and retrieve it.

Spoken like a true non hunter...

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:51 pm

The question didn't ask about hunting or trials. I answered the question quite well. You will see the difference at a big trial. That is pushing both breeds to their limit.