Craigslist

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Fri May 06, 2011 11:38 am

Last night I was up late, and I thought I should check craigslist "Materials" section to see if anyone had listed some good roofing pannels / tin for my structure that will cover my kennels. Sometimes you can find good stuff, sometimes not. Doesn't hurt to look. At 72 cents a square foot for new, I'll bargin shop if I can find a deal.

I Couldn't find any so I hopped over to the "Sporting" section of the site where I found several listings for dogs. I clicked on the ads and I couldn't help but feel sick to my stomach. Really? I thought. "Advertising your pups on Craigslist!?" And, of course there were the headings stating "Hunting Bloodlines" and such.

Now don't get me wrong, there could be some really good dogs there, but I sincerely have my doubts. We don't even advertise our dogs/pups in the newspapers. Selling them via Craigslist is really stretching to an all time low. I guess I feel conflicted, because I hope they sell them for the pups' sake. I would hate for them to end up in a shelter or something.

On the other hand, you get what you pay for. If you're looking for dogs in those places then you probably don't expect a whole lot I'd guess.

snips · Post by **snips** » Fri May 06, 2011 11:44 am

bkidd79 · Post by **bkidd79** » Fri May 06, 2011 12:07 pm

I am not a dog breeder, but I am a businessman. If I was just getting my business going, dog breeding or otherwise, I would absolutley take advantage of any free advertising I could get. I have bought things off of Craigslist from very reputable individuals and business'. Just my 2 cents, and I am also sure that there are backyard breeders on there trying to make a quick buck. Buyers need to be responsible.

And before anyone asks, my dog was free, a backyard mistake.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri May 06, 2011 12:37 pm

No Craiglist here...I know there are some deals to be had but that is not a place I would go to seek a quality bred litter

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri May 06, 2011 12:40 pm

Used to, they didn't allow animals for sale, only rescue and rehoming. I know that policy was ignored, though. Rescuers use Craigslist extensively, along with Facebook.

hosejockey2935 · Post by **hosejockey2935** » Fri May 06, 2011 12:52 pm

While I wouldn't actively seek out Craigslist for a dog, but I can see the plus sides. It allows you to reach out further than any newspaper would, and its very cost effective (Free...everybody's favorite 4 letter "F" word). Both of my dogs I was made aware of via a newspaper ad.

The first was intended as just a good family dog, at the time I didn't care much about bloodlines and hunting, etc. After the first impressed me with his natural abilities, I actively went looking for a "hunting" dog. The headline read "Maverick/Warchief Brittany Pups." Being from MN, these were two great dog lines that I have come to recognize and like. Come to find out this was a breeding that was well thought out, had previously had a good success rate, and was done by two honest families in the MN and IA area. I ended up being 2nd pic female, after a gentleman from Omaha, Nebraska.

Not all breeders who use Craigslist or a newspaper are scammers; some yes, but I think there are legitimate people out there. As a buyer, I asked questions and was given great answers. The thought of "Backyard Breeder" never crossed my mind.
~tommy

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Fri May 06, 2011 1:04 pm

kninebirddog wrote:No Craiglist here...I know there are some deals to be had but that is not a place I would go to seek a quality bred litter

+1

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Fri May 06, 2011 1:14 pm

Read the rules for posting an add. Don't know if it is true or not but I heard it is not allowed on Craigslist .

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Fri May 06, 2011 1:20 pm

ultracarry wrote:Read the rules for posting an add. Don't know if it is true or not but I heard it is not allowed on Craigslist .

Ultra- Ya I'm sure you're right. However, as we've seen and heard many times with other "issues" in the news, Craigslist is poorly regulated. Here is the link to one of the ads.

http://wichita.craigslist.org/spo/2361995335.html

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri May 06, 2011 1:21 pm

ultracarry wrote:Read the rules for posting an add. Don't know if it is true or not but I heard it is not allowed on Craigslist .

You can place ads for Dogs available with a price to cover adoption fees but you can not or you are not supposed to just post puppies and dogs for sale like a newspaper ad

but they don't go through all their posts so unless someone reports the post it won't get pulled

There was some had a stud dog no papers was a couch potato aka just a house dog as described but it was advertised as a great looking hunting dog :roll:

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri May 06, 2011 1:36 pm

I have looked on craigslist but never bought anything, it seems buyers turn up dead or robbed and that shakes me up a bit

but i have bought many things off of a site called KIJIJI, i dont know if you guys have it in the u.s but in canada its REALLY popular..i got my boxer TYSON off of KIJIJI and he is the best dog i ever had..i also sold ALOT of things on it as well, its free to advertise and ive sold things within a day for the most part...heres a link to it incase you wanna have a looksy and you can hit "change" by the city and it will give you other cities to look at....ruth

http://windsor.kijiji.ca/

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Fri May 06, 2011 2:04 pm

kninebirddog wrote:No Craiglist here...I know there are some deals to be had but that is not a place I would go to seek a quality bred litter

I've bought and sold many things off of Craigslist in the past, never occurred to me to look there for a dog. Probably still won't in the future.

Like most things the average person will be happy with an average dog. Which isn't hard to find. It takes a real enthusiast to want to put the time, effort, blood, sweat and tears into something truly great. With hunting dogs or anything else...

Related, I'm waiting on a call back from a guy on CL that I talked to about his launchers for sale.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Fri May 06, 2011 2:24 pm

The only thing I look for on Craigslist is a commuter car and pigeons or chukar

rkappes · Post by **rkappes** » Fri May 06, 2011 3:07 pm

In any case you need to do your homework whether it be a kennel, craigslist, newspaper, etc….just part of being a responsible owner.

jasonw99 · Post by **jasonw99** » Fri May 06, 2011 3:31 pm

just a question. what's the difference between using craigslist and this forum? what's the difference between craigslist and a magazine?

i don't have an opinion either way just some things to think about.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Fri May 06, 2011 3:59 pm

jasonw99 wrote:just a question. what's the difference between using craigslist and this forum? what's the difference between craigslist and a magazine?

i don't have an opinion either way just some things to think about.

The audience.

Not knocking CL, or those that may advertise there. But it doesn't target those that want a quality hunting dog. It targets those that want cheap stuff.

Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I don't believe cost should be a prime consideration when buying a bird dog.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri May 06, 2011 4:02 pm

jasonw99 wrote:just a question. what's the difference between using craigslist and this forum? what's the difference between craigslist and a magazine?

i don't have an opinion either way just some things to think about.

The difference is the perceived market.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Fri May 06, 2011 4:07 pm

displaced_texan wrote:
jasonw99 wrote:just a question. what's the difference between using craigslist and this forum? what's the difference between craigslist and a magazine?

i don't have an opinion either way just some things to think about.
The audience.

GUNDOGS wrote: buyers turn up dead or robbed

There are 2 really good answers.

Steve007 · Post by **Steve007** » Fri May 06, 2011 4:35 pm

If you want a quality dog, you go where the people have quality dogs. Your odds are a whole lot better here than there.

Texasdogtrainer · Post by **Texasdogtrainer** » Fri May 06, 2011 4:38 pm

I have bought several items off of craiglist and have also purchased two GSP puppies for @25.00. They were awesome well bred pups that I sold started and train them when they were older for the new owners. They were line bred Dixieland Rusty. Breeders bred the litter, kept two pups and they had to move. Sometimes when we get off our high horses or stop looking down our noses. We find pretty good deals in unlikely places. I son and I often to go the flea market, we like roasted corn and that's the best place. Every know and than, you find young homers, dog boxes, shock collars, kennels in excellent conditions. You never know.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri May 06, 2011 4:49 pm

I work at a jail, and be forewarned about Craigslist.

Lots of crime happens there. The Police spend time there finding stolen property for sale there.

" I sent my money but he never sent the item." fraud

Lots of underage girls advertised for "encounters".

Craigslist is regularly at risk of being shut down for "forgetting' to monitor the age of its girls.

I wouldn't take the risk of buying anything there.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Fri May 06, 2011 4:56 pm

Texasdogtrainer wrote:I have bought several items off of craiglist and have also purchased two GSP puppies for @25.00. They were awesome well bred pups that I sold started and train them when they were older for the new owners. They were line bred Dixieland Rusty. Breeders bred the litter, kept two pups and they had to move. Sometimes when we get off our high horses or stop looking down our noses. We find pretty good deals in unlikely places. I son and I often to go the flea market, we like roasted corn and that's the best place. Every know and than, you find young homers, dog boxes, shock collars, kennels in excellent conditions. You never know.

Sorry Adrian, I can't help but look down. I'm tall.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Fri May 06, 2011 5:39 pm

Lots of underage girls advertised for "encounters".

Craigslist is regularly at risk of being shut down for "forgetting' to monitor the age of its girls.

I wouldn't take the risk of buying anything there.

Craigslist valuation is in the Billions, I don't think there is a chance of it ever being shut down, maybe made to change some of their policies. I have bought and sold many things on craigslist. There is a lot of fraud on it, but if you buy it in person you don't really have to worry about it anymore than if you bought it off ebay or through the newspaper.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri May 06, 2011 5:49 pm

nikegundog wrote:
Lots of underage girls advertised for "encounters".

Craigslist is regularly at risk of being shut down for "forgetting' to monitor the age of its girls.

I wouldn't take the risk of buying anything there.
Craigslist valuation is in the Billions, I don't think there is a chance of it ever being shut down, maybe made to change some of their policies. I have bought and sold many things on craigslist. There is a lot of fraud on it, but if you buy it in person you don't really have to worry about it anymore than if you bought it off ebay or through the newspaper.

I agree it comes down to doing your homework and protecting yourself, no matter the source of the add.

There are questionable litters posted all over the net that I would never consider buying a pup from, that includes GDF. Where an add is posted has little to no effect on a person doing homework and looking for quality.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri May 06, 2011 6:36 pm

nikegundog wrote:
Lots of underage girls advertised for "encounters".

Craigslist is regularly at risk of being shut down for "forgetting' to monitor the age of its girls.

I wouldn't take the risk of buying anything there.
Craigslist valuation is in the Billions, I don't think there is a chance of it ever being shut down, maybe made to change some of their policies. I have bought and sold many things on craigslist. There is a lot of fraud on it, but if you buy it in person you don't really have to worry about it anymore than if you bought it off ebay or through the newspaper.

i don't like to disagree but if you worked where I worked...... You can go and buy it in person and get mugged and have your money taken and the name on CL is not the name and ...............No thanks.

(Or the item was stolen , you now have it ......charge of possession of stolen property.)

JWP58 · Post by **JWP58** » Fri May 06, 2011 6:47 pm

I've sold two road bikes off CL and some random bike parts. Thats about the only thing i look at or buy on there..

taxidermy · Post by **taxidermy** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:41 pm

I agree with [ prairiefirepointers ], anyone that advertises with anyone ,other than the "Gun Dog Forum" is dirt ,scumbag, lower than.... well ,, prairiefirepointers ; why do you need to put others down ? why are people better here than on CL.
IT'S the same people !!!

dudleysmith · Post by **dudleysmith** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:48 pm

Texasdogtrainer wrote:I have bought several items off of craiglist and have also purchased two GSP puppies for @25.00. They were awesome well bred pups that I sold started and train them when they were older for the new owners. They were line bred Dixieland Rusty. Breeders bred the litter, kept two pups and they had to move. Sometimes when we get off our high horses or stop looking down our noses. We find pretty good deals in unlikely places. I son and I often to go the flea market, we like roasted corn and that's the best place. Every know and than, you find young homers, dog boxes, shock collars, kennels in excellent conditions. You never know.

Very well said.....a good dog can come from anywhere..it dont have to come from a $800 a pup litter...

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:08 pm

taxidermy wrote:I agree with [ prairiefirepointers ], anyone that advertises with anyone ,other than the "Gun Dog Forum" is dirt ,scumbag, lower than.... well ,, prairiefirepointers ; why do you need to put others down ? why are people better here than on CL.
IT'S the same people !!!

I'm not saying anyone who advertises anywhere than GDF is what you called "Dirt, scumbag, lower than" ??? :roll: I don't advertise with GDF and will NEVER list my litters/pups here. I have a friend who had the misfortune of placing an ad in the "Dogs For Sale" section and I can guarantee you he will not do so again.

I can't wait for the heading atop the American Field.. Dog off Craigslist Wins NC.

taxidermy · Post by **taxidermy** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:17 pm

sorry, prairiefirepointers, but you have tried to sell your dogs on here!! ;we all start somewhere, but ,we need not step on others ,to make ourselfs look better.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:30 pm

taxidermy wrote:sorry, prairiefirepointers, but you have tried to sell your dogs on here!! ;we all start somewhere, but ,we need not step on others ,to make ourselfs look better.

I listed a finished dog named "Bo" for a buddy of mine, Steve LaForge out of Augusta. That is the ONLY time I have listed anything living and breathing on this forum. I have NEVER listed my litters or pups on here. To say otherwise is a bald faced lie.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Fri May 06, 2011 10:13 pm

Sharon wrote:
nikegundog wrote:
Lots of underage girls advertised for "encounters".

Craigslist is regularly at risk of being shut down for "forgetting' to monitor the age of its girls.

I wouldn't take the risk of buying anything there.
Craigslist valuation is in the Billions, I don't think there is a chance of it ever being shut down, maybe made to change some of their policies. I have bought and sold many things on craigslist. There is a lot of fraud on it, but if you buy it in person you don't really have to worry about it anymore than if you bought it off ebay or through the newspaper.
i don't like to disagree but if you worked where I worked...... You can go and buy it in person and get mugged and have your money taken and the name on CL is not the name and ...............No thanks.

(Or the item was stolen , you now have it ......charge of possession of stolen property.)

You say that like it can't happen at a pawn shop, or ebay, or a flea market, or newspaper classifieds.

You can order a pizza and get killed by the delivery guy. You could get shot by a poacher out hunting. You could go to work in a skyscraper in NYC and it get hit by a plane and collapse. Things can happen anywhere. Living in fear is just another way of dying before your time.

I've bought and sold hundreds of items on CL, and never had a problem.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Fri May 06, 2011 10:33 pm

You say that like it can't happen at a pawn shop, or ebay, or a flea market, or newspaper classifieds.

You can order a pizza and get killed by the delivery guy. You could get shot by a poacher out hunting. You could go to work in a skyscraper in NYC and it get hit by a plane and collapse. Things can happen anywhere. Living in fear is just another way of dying before your time.

I've bought and sold hundreds of items on CL, and never had a problem.

Tex- I've sold items on there as well. Never bought anything yet. I will add that when I listed some old hunting gear on there to get enuf money to buy my new Danner boots, I had NUMEROUS phishing emails start coming in response to a few of my ads.

All jokes aside. Seriously, are you going to look on craigslist for a quality birddog?? How about Gundogbreeders? Or Jeff's site Gundogcentral? Both of them are GREAT sites. I prefer GDC though. Although I have Kennel Accounts with both.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Fri May 06, 2011 11:06 pm

prairiefirepointers wrote: Tex- I've sold items on there as well. Never bought anything yet. I will add that when I listed some old hunting gear on there to get enuf money to buy my new Danner boots, I had NUMEROUS phishing emails start coming in response to a few of my ads.

I used to get those emails, they seem to have dropped off lately. I sell more than I buy. I buy big things and part them out. Usually engines, or parts of vehicles.

All jokes aside. Seriously, are you going to look on craigslist for a quality birddog?? How about Gundogbreeders? Or Jeff's site Gundogcentral? Both of them are GREAT sites. I prefer GDC though. Although I have Kennel Accounts with both.

That's EXACTLY how I see it. Not that you might not find something you aren't looking for browsing CL, but why advertise where people aren't looking for what you provide? I just went through the process of looking for a new pup. NEVER occurred to me to look on CL, even though I look there a lot.

Besides, selling animals is against the rules. Doesn't that say something about the breeders that advertise there?

V-John · Post by **V-John** » Sat May 07, 2011 2:44 pm

I have sold a lot of pigeons on CL. I still get people wanting them, from CL, and I posted something last summer on it.
I've bought somethings on CL, from a cell phone to dog crates. Have always had good success with it. I've never had the thought that someone could try and jump me and rob me, but, I'm doubtful that would happen.

I cruise it for deals. Sent a friend an ad that I found on CL for two DT launchers for reasonably priced.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sat May 07, 2011 2:55 pm

BTW the post has been flagged.

snips · Post by **snips** » Sat May 07, 2011 3:32 pm

Seems like it's like looking at the flea market for a pup....Just me.....

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Sat May 07, 2011 5:45 pm

I live so far out in the boondocks here in Oklahoma that we don't even have flea markets but my uncle raises quail and pheasant in central Missouri near a large Mennonite community and he told me you can buy everything from very well bred bird dogs, to horses, his quail and pheasant, pigeons, rabbits, well bred coondogs etc. at the ones he attends. I am not saying every flea market is like that but some might surprise you. Not that I would ever go to a flea market looking for a well bred pointer but if I came upon one and it was of a breeding that I liked I am not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. Heck ya I am going to buy it. The dog doesn't know if he is being sold at a flea market, a field trial, a breeders auction, a kennel sale, etc. and most likely doesn't care.

I have not used Craigs List because the closest locale to me is Amarillo and that is still 100 miles away but that is not to say if I needed to I would not use it. Hunters use all types of median when purchasing dogs not just GDF or GDC. I have advertised with both and will continue to use GDC. On some sites you run into people who are a bit elitist and are of the opinion that if you do not have a $150,000 home with a $50,000 kennel setup outside then you don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground. A well bred dog is a well bred dog not matter where you live and no matter where you get the pup from. JMO

PkerStr8Tail · Post by **PkerStr8Tail** » Sat May 07, 2011 6:04 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:On some sites you run into people who are a bit elitist and are of the opinion that if you do not have a $150,000 home with a $50,000 kennel setup outside then you don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground. A well bred dog is a well bred dog not matter where you live and no matter where you get the pup from. JMO

I have to agree. Image works for some buyers though. I think it is a status thing to be able to say they paid big money for a large kennel cull. The ironic thing, in my opinion, is that the likelihood these high dollar kennels let out the best pups is greatly reduced. The small to medium sized kennels can't afford nor do they have the space to skim off 3-4 of the best pups from 10 to 15 litters a year to evaluate.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Sat May 07, 2011 8:52 pm

Saw this tonight made me laugh lol

http://quadcities.craigslist.org/spo/2368497545.html

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Sat May 07, 2011 9:33 pm

I use Craigslist all the time - but like folks say, it's buyer beware. CL does not allow any breeding or selling of pets.... so, breeders who list dogs on there are doing so against the Terms of Use they agreed to when they logged in. I know very few reputable breeders who list already whelped litters of puppies on the web or even worse, in the paper. Reputable breeders, IMO, have the entire litter sold before they breed. That doesn't mean someone won't back out, but if you need to advertise a litter in the paper or on Craigslist - you shouldn't be breeding. I know that sounds weird to some of you - but I spend way too much time rescuing other peoples' handoffs... and many are purebred, registered dogs (and pups) that weren't really wanted or planned for by the breeder.

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Sun May 08, 2011 6:37 am

gittrdonebritts wrote:Saw this tonight made me laugh lol

http://quadcities.craigslist.org/spo/2368497545.html

I saw that too!

Think I like this one better

, except not a lot of ventilation.

http://cedarrapids.craigslist.org/spo/2354123754.html

Like others have said, pets for profit really aren't suppose to be on there...so I'd have no reason to look. If I googled a certain pedigree, and a CL link came up, I would probably go check it out...just to make sure I wasn't missing an opportunity. But that hasn't happened yet, and probably never will. To advertize where it's prohibited, either speaks naivety or desperation to me, and is not a marketing strategy.

Otherwise, I like CL. I've sold more than a dozen items, mostly picked up at my house, and never had a problem with anyone. (And NO, for those that have met my 6'6" husband, he was not standing behind me--he wasn't even home for most of them.

) I've bought pigeons, a k-9 condo, kennel panels, and even a car a few nights ago. Great place to go, for those of us looking to save a dollar, so we can spend it instead on some dang dog game.

Mike50 · Post by **Mike50** » Sun May 08, 2011 7:28 am

If I were in the market I'd take a look at this one. http://greenbay.craigslist.org/for/2368204524.html But then shes free.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Sun May 08, 2011 5:14 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:I live so far out in the boondocks here in Oklahoma that we don't even have flea markets but my uncle raises quail and pheasant in central Missouri near a large Mennonite community and he told me you can buy everything from very well bred bird dogs, to horses, his quail and pheasant, pigeons, rabbits, well bred coondogs etc. at the ones he attends.

I meant to type Amish community not Mennonite. I misquoted my uncle. The Amish have animal sales a couple of times a month there with all types of different animals including bird, rabbit and coondogs.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Sun May 08, 2011 5:29 pm

RoostersMom wrote: Reputable breeders, IMO, have the entire litter sold before they breed. .

What if you bred because you wanted a pup out of your own stud dog and your own female because you knew what you were getting in the way of genetics, immune systems, traits like natural retrieve, size of run, birdiness, bidability, toughness, etc.? What if you bred because you wanted pick of the litter and not someone else's castoffs? What you are stating says to me that only large kennel owners should be breeding because they are the ones with the clientele and reputations to do this. Private owners should not breed their own dogs? FYI most trial kennels, meaning kennels who trial their dogs and breed to build their trial string, do not even have the whole litter sold before they do a breeding because they are going to keep the pups till they are at least 7-12 months for evaluation purposes and possibly to run some puppy stakes with them to see how they are going to fare in competition. They are going to sell the pups that don't fit their individual idea of a trial dog based on the venue they run in. Also I am sure that many large kennel and breeder operations started off as individual owners not as a business. Just something to think about. That being said I do believe there are too many unwanted pets out there and the rescues you perform are a true act of kindness.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Sun May 08, 2011 6:42 pm

Here is another I found tonight lol

http://iowacity.craigslist.org/spo/2336702896.html

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun May 08, 2011 6:49 pm

gittrdonebritts wrote:Here is another I found tonight lol

http://iowacity.craigslist.org/spo/2336702896.html

White, wheat or rye?

Post by **Sharon** » Sun May 08, 2011 7:08 pm

What do you do with them when the morel season is over?

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Sun May 08, 2011 7:29 pm

I've traveled all over this country and I always look at the local papers. You would be surprised how many $200 dogs for sale there are and many from known breeding lines. I don't see any difference from advertising dogs on Craigslist then putting them in the local paper or advertiser. I was in Kansas City for the NRA National Convention by chance...the year Charlton Heston lifted the musket and roared, "From my cold, dead hands!!" (a great moment) and remember calling about a litter of double bred Fiddler Pointers for $250. So does it matter where you read about them??

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sun May 08, 2011 7:52 pm

JKP wrote:I've traveled all over this country and I always look at the local papers. You would be surprised how many $200 dogs for sale there are and many from known breeding lines. I don't see any difference from advertising dogs on Craigslist then putting them in the local paper or advertiser. I was in Kansas City for the NRA National Convention by chance...the year Charlton Heston lifted the musket and roared, "From my cold, dead hands!!" (a great moment) and remember calling about a litter of double bred Fiddler Pointers for $250. So does it matter where you read about them??

I see people all the time say double bred ___ dog or talk some dogs that Wow they are in the pedigree but look at what they allow to procreate

I see breedings all the time where someone says Elhew bred ...and I just have wonder how many times Whele has rolled in his grave..Has he rolled so much that he has drilled himself into the grave plot in front of him?

kinda like making a cake You can use name brand ingredients but if you don't follow a recipe doesn't matter what kinda of or how pretty the icing/frosting is it won't make up for the bad tasting cake

Dog is the Cake Pedigree is the Icing/frosting