Recommendations

CaseyK68 · Post by **CaseyK68** » Sat May 14, 2011 2:45 pm

All,

Hello - I am new to the forum, and relatively new to bird hunting. I owned dogs right up until I went to college, but haven't owned any since then. I'm interested in getting a dog that I can use for both upland bird and waterfowling. I will be heading overseas for a 2-yr tour next summer, to a place with a cold climate, but good upland bird and waterfowl hunting.

What can you recommend as a good dog breed for me? I've already checked, and the regs for taking the dog with me are very light, without even a quarrantine. I'll likely be living in an apt, so would prefer something under the size of a Shetland Pony. It would be better if he/she did not projectile shed for the same reason, but I am willing to do the grooming needed for the right dog.

Any suggestions you could offer would be greatly appreciated!

Regards,

Casey

gozz21 · Post by **gozz21** » Sat May 14, 2011 4:24 pm

How cold of climate and are you going to be doing more upland or waterfowl? The first two dogs that come to mind are GSP's and Labs.

4ShotB · Post by **4ShotB** » Sat May 14, 2011 5:12 pm

don't know where you are heading but a well-bred hunting Lab is very hard to beat imo. and I say that without owning one. I 've hunted over them for upland birds and ducks.If they made Labs in smaller packages, this may have been the breed of choice for me. Be careful with them if you decide that's what you want, alot of them do not come from hunting stock anymore.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sat May 14, 2011 5:18 pm

I would do some research on some of the versatile breeds such as the DD and GWP. JMO.

Welcome to the forum,
Charlie

CaseyK68 · Post by **CaseyK68** » Sat May 14, 2011 7:30 pm

I'm heading to Mongolia - looking forward to some excellent fly fishing, big game and bird hunting. My understanding is that the primary form of bird hunting is upland (ptarmigan, grouse, capercaille, partridge, others) though there is hunting for geese, ducks, and widgeon as well. Should be a great experience!

orbirdhunter · Post by **orbirdhunter** » Sat May 14, 2011 10:21 pm

Hmmm.....Thats fairly vague......Off the top of my head probably at least 15 breeds that would fit the bill.....here is where i would start though.....in no particular order...

German Wirehaired Pointer
Deutsch Drahthaar
Pudelpointer
Wirehaired Pointing Griffon
Springer Spaniel
Water Spaniel
Large and Small Munsterlander
Brittany
Lab
Pointing Lab

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Sun May 15, 2011 10:40 am

English Pointer then maybe look for a GSP....

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sun May 15, 2011 12:17 pm

Help us out pointer or flusher?

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Sun May 15, 2011 2:21 pm

At first glance, I'd go with a GWP or DD. It looks like you will have the opportunity to hunt upland birds that are not available in the states. So, if it were me, I would certainly concentrate on the upland bird population. But are you looking for a pup or a "started" or "trained" dog? If you get a pup, he will not be close to maturing when it's time to leave (assuming you come back home after two years). I would also take into consideration what type of hunting you plan to do when you get back home, it would seem that will be the majority of the dog's hunting experience. Might want to contact The Safari Club International. See if they can put you in touch with someone that can answer your questions as to the way's some of these birds are hunteed and the type of dog's most commonly used. Save some money for a good taxidermist. I would want to have some of those memories mounted and shipped home..Good luck....

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sun May 15, 2011 2:43 pm

Man I would love to fly fish in Mongolia.

I would stick with a dog that does better then a GSP for the cold weather they get. If you had a California winter there it would be the perfect dog. But the weather over there can be very harsh.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun May 15, 2011 3:30 pm

If you are wanting a smaller dog that lives well in the houseI would recommend the Brittany You need to watch the pedigrees on them as there are people that pay no attention to the breed standard breeding puppies.

Ezzy

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sun May 15, 2011 4:10 pm

As for a good waterfowl dog and colder climates one thing to consider the smaller the dog the less protection over all they will have for the very climate you are seeking to hunt in
All dogs shed shorter coated dogs shed just as much longer coated dog just it isn't as noticeable right away because it is shorter

there are some smaller lines of Labs ..the more english field lines that do good for both water and upland..even some of the spaniel lines
If you plan on any goose you really need to have a stronger built dog if your a die hard the occasional one get a dog that is happy with the water and will retrieve quite a few will do good

What you have to really figure out is which dog appeals to you the most..Going to a few trials or events where hunting breeds will be would be the best way for you to figure out what you like as you will see them with your own eyes which is more important that what is appealing and preferable to us your the one that wil have to live with and feed the dog you choose

Good Luck and keep us posted

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun May 15, 2011 5:37 pm

kninebirddog wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:If you are wanting a smaller dog that lives well in the houseI would recommend the Brittany You need to watch the pedigrees on them as there are people that pay no attention to the breed standard breeding puppies. Ezzy

So Ezzy would you care to elaborate on what LINES of brittanys that are going over standards..

Yes there are some breeders that breed for being a bird dog what will make a hard core hunter and trialer happy rather breed down to a mediocre in standard dog..but some of those breeders make sure they have a solid bird dog female on the smaller size when they seek a dog that also is a solid bird dog that may go over some as they are more concerned that when a person wants in a bird dog they get one with real desire and style

So yes when you go to some strong bred field dogs you will see more go over in many lines of brittanys Just Call Me Roy, Beans Blaze Son of a gun Runner Lines I see a bunch of those go way over standard making Maxwells Blew By you look on the more normal size if you care to see just how big Chuck really is I posted a picture on my litter for sale Chuck with a coat and not super well stacked as I was just trying to get a quick picture and getting my knee in a bent position is less then comfortable for me

I know of a good amount of TJ bred to show lines that went over much less TJ progeny bred to strong Bean blaze

Nolans Last Bullet was a smaller dog but when bred to strong Renegade lines a good handful of those dogs hit the top of standard

So careful just blaming breeders for what YOU consider just tossing standards out the window as maybe they have a plan maybe they care about one thing and are breeding for a long term goal and are willing to step outside the box to get that dog that excels rather then just settle for mediocre

Knine, I don't feel it is necessary to try and name lines that tend to run oversize, though we know there are some. But those are the results of someone breeding big dogs into their line and then they continue to pop up for years to come. I have had considerable experience over the years with breeders doing just that and we still reap the benefits today.
When I started with the Brits years ago, I couldn't understand just why some wanted to do that but it became more clear when you talked to many of the trialers of that day that thought they needed a bigger dog to compete. But over the years we have seen it didn't work that way and most of the trialers have bought into the same concept we all agreed to when we joined the American Brittany Club that we would promote the dual concept that has made the Brittany unique. And the results are that most of the best trial dogs are Dual Champions and I see a bright future as long as we continue to promote every aspect of the Brittany.

I just don't feel like I am in a box trying to breed the type of dog that every Brittany Club I know of has sworn to promote and as you and I did when we joined those clubs as restrictive. If the majority of breeders did not agree we wouldn't have a Brittany today as we know them. Just hard to convince most people that breeding less than the best overall dog is the way to excellence.

jasonw99 · Post by **jasonw99** » Sun May 15, 2011 5:44 pm

u Brittany guys always making posts about u and your beloved breed.

get a lab. cold water is hard on dogs. you didn't say where your going so I am assuming ur in frigid water.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun May 15, 2011 6:50 pm

Why don't you see what is available where you are to be stationed? There are some marvelous Euro breeds that have little exposure stateside and you might find one very much suited to your requirements. There is a Czech wirehair that might work, as well as some Scandinavian breeds.

up-hunter · Post by **up-hunter** » Sun May 15, 2011 8:12 pm

what about a boykin spaniel heard good things about them

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon May 16, 2011 7:33 am

If you are wanting a smaller dog that lives well in the houseI would recommend the Brittany You need to watch the pedigrees on them as there are people that pay no attention to the breed standard breeding puppies.

Ezzy

Knine,

Just keep it up as you incriminate your self. I never mentioned you or anyone else in a post I made. When someone asked about a smaller dog I suggested the Brit but he should be aware some are bigger than the standard. From there you took it to where it is now, not me. I stand 100% behind what I said and I sure didn't put you or anyone else down when I posted. Seems that sometimes people with a guilty conscience incriminate them selves.

Ezzy

markj · Post by **markj** » Mon May 16, 2011 8:30 am

Any way you can find what the locals use for hunting there and maybe get a couple to bring here? Is how a lot of good hunting and working dogs came to the US, by servicemen going overseas and seeing the dogs there, getting some and bringing them back. COuld be a good opportunity, and get you in wit hteh locals which in turn may lead to fantastic hunting and fishing oportunities

a win win IMHO.

Good luck, sounds like a fun adventure.

markj · Post by **markj** » Mon May 16, 2011 8:31 am

BTW, can ezzie and knine take their arguement to PMs, this thread isnt about you

and your arguement just dont fit this subject at all in any way. Kinda rude IMHO.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon May 16, 2011 8:41 am

Did you happen to notice that I never critized anyone for owning, trialing, orhaving a pup that went oversize. Never have as most of us have had one or several over the years.

......You started this and FYI Yes You offended quite a few field trial people ..as there are dogs from many of the Well noted dogs that are bred on that go over standard some a lot some a little some are show lines most are field bred..but even in those lines that you have in your dog there are many that produced progeny that go over.

I am probably as close to as many trialers as you are and we have had these discussions for years and none of us were offended. We have more trialers in our Brittany Club than any other club in the country and I can't think of a single one that has been offended. Quite the opposite, as almost without exception they are BREEDING to dogs that are Duals and are showing their dogs also. That is what they agreed to when they joined the club. We promote the DUAL concept and it is working. I think what does bother some people is when some younger breeder comes along and decides what they want is more important than keeping our dogs Brittanys after all of the years we have put in developing the breed.

I'm truly sorry if you or anyone else is offended but there is little I can do about that. That is your problem since all I have done or said is what we all agreed to when we decided we wanted to own Brittanys and promote and improve the breed within it's stated purpose.

But I still am wondering why you got so upset when I posted a reasonable answer to a young man that isn't even in the same area of the country as you are and you thought it referred to you. I sure didn't think he was going to read my advice and immediately order a pup from you.

Ezzy

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon May 16, 2011 8:43 am

markj wrote:BTW, can ezzie and knine take their arguement to PMs, this thread isnt about you and your arguement just dont fit this subject at all in any way. Kinda rude IMHO.

Good advice. I sure didn't know I was starting an arguement but it seems to have turned out that way. I'm through as there is nothing more to say anyway.

Ezzy

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Mon May 16, 2011 8:53 am

ezzy333 wrote:
markj wrote:BTW, can ezzie and knine take their arguement to PMs, this thread isnt about you and your arguement just dont fit this subject at all in any way. Kinda rude IMHO.
Good advice. I sure didn't know I was starting an arguement but it seems to have turned out that way. I'm through as there is nothing more to say anyway.

Ezzy

Nothing more to say, after you get the last word in...

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:00 am

CaseyK,

I like the advice above about trying to find a dog in your area - it would likely be suited to the game you'll be hunting in the area. If not, I'd look into a lab (normal sized one, not the gigantors that some folks breed these days) because they really are a versatile type of dog that will excel in the water and if bred to standard should be a good size for you. The GWP's I've seen are larger than maybe you'd want. IMO, if you're going to have one dog to do it all (which we don't, we just have chessies for ducks and birddogs for upland hunting) then the lab might be your best bet. THe cold weather won't affect them like it does the shorter haired breeds - and they will hunt upland birds too - just not as well (again IMO) as the dogs bred specifically for that purpose.

Check (or Czech... ha ha) out what you might have available to you out there - you might end up with a really cool breed that we don't know much about here in the States.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:24 am

markj wrote:BTW, can ezzie and knine take their arguement to PMs, this thread isnt about you and your arguement just dont fit this subject at all in any way. Kinda rude IMHO.

you are right ..Just get tired of the public slaps to the field trial community because some of the winning dogs run a bit larger then the typical dual and show dog lines do ..I am deleting my posts

markj · Post by **markj** » Mon May 16, 2011 1:52 pm

Knine and ezzy, I think you both have some fine dogs there, no reason to argue over them. Get together and go hunting with them dogs and have some fun. Life is to short to argue with someone could be yer best friend.

Now if ya wanted to move up and get a shorthair

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:44 pm

My final answer is to contact someone who has been there, done that. Ben O. Williams. The breed in that instance, Brittany.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:46 pm

by Cajun Casey » Mon May 16, 2011 1:44 pm

My final answer is to contact someone who has been there, done that. Ben O. Williams. The breed in that instance, Brittan

Huh? What did Ben done and or do?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:55 pm

Chukar12 wrote:
by Cajun Casey » Mon May 16, 2011 1:44 pm

My final answer is to contact someone who has been there, done that. Ben O. Williams. The breed in that instance, Brittan
Huh? What did Ben done and or do?

Unless the voices in my head are lying again (they do that sometimes), I believe I read an article somewhere a few years ago about a trip he made to Mongolia.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:58 pm

ahh...well I was confused because you got back on topic

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon May 16, 2011 3:06 pm

Chukar12 wrote:ahh...well I was confused because you got back on topic

Sorry. Would it make it better if I said it was an off-standard Brittany that was unproven in any test or trial venue that accompanied him?

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon May 16, 2011 3:07 pm

he doesnt know what the standard is

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon May 16, 2011 3:14 pm

Gray's, August, 2007, GREETINGS FROM MONGOLIA.

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Mon May 16, 2011 6:18 pm

Pudel pointer, drahtharr or german wirehair pointer, probably in that order. lot of natural retrieve there, can handle cold climates and hunt any animal that you may come across that we do not know about.

maybe something like the little fellow below, they grow up so fast.

brandon

DSC_0046.JPG.jpg

DSC_0015.JPG.jpg

DSC_1139.jpg

cmc274 · Post by **cmc274** » Mon May 16, 2011 6:32 pm

A lot of good advice here, however I think the best piece was recommending a started or finished dog. It would go along way to providing maximum enjoyment of your hunting opportunities. I would think you want a dog to be a minimum of 18 months in order to have the strength and stamina to spend ample time in the field (maybe even 2?). If you are more interested in a puppy and watching it develop, sounds like you may have plenty of wild birds to train on. If you import a rare breed and start a famous kennel, make sure to give folks on GDF mention in the credits.

Good luck

CaseyK68 · Post by **CaseyK68** » Sun May 22, 2011 2:31 pm

Wow! Thank you for all of your replies everyone! That was a lot of good advice, and I appreciate it!

I'm looking at a started or finished dog. I love puppies, but not having any experience or training of my own in training a puppy, I'm afraid I wouldn't know how to give him/her everything they need as far as instruction goes.

I've looked for bird hunting dog breeds online, etc. but haven't found any. They use Chow Chows, Taigas, and other breeds for hunting, but I don't think they use them for bird hunting.

You've given me a lot to think about, and I appreciate it!

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