Dog Tussle

BillGraves · Post by **BillGraves** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:00 pm

Hi everyone,

I had a situation today that I want some opinions on...I have my guess but I'd like to hear what y'all think.

So I have had the new 10 month old GSP male for about 2 weeks now. Things have been going well and he and the older dog, 7yr old GSP, seem to get along pretty well. The older dog isn't much for playing with other dogs, just likes to run around and hunt. Always seems like he is on a mission. Well, the introduction went well 2 weeks ago. A little ruffled scruff fur and some minor growls coming from both but everything was ok. They are both crated at night and I feed them on opposite sides of the back porch while I am still there. I feed the older one first and then the younger, just to try and dissuade the younger from thinking he can rule the roost. I have had them both in the back seat of the truck together without any problems.

Then today happened. They both finished eating...bowls were completely empty. I walked back inside to do whatever it is I was going to do and heard a fight break out. When I got there, the younger one had ahold of the older ones ear and would not let go. I grabbed a back leg and pulled backward, that didn't work. Took a front leg of the pup and pulled over his head and that didn't work either. It was all I could do to get them separated and in the process, I got a couple bloody toes from claws and a bite to my thigh (didn't break the skin, just gave me an indentation and a sore spot.) The old dog got a small tear in his ear which I promptly disinfected with hydrogen peroxide and then sprayed some liquid bandaid on to seal the wound. I will keep watch of this and call the vet on Monday if it doesn't look any worse until then. His ear is now swollen a good bit but otherwise, no problem. The pup had no scratches or cuts or anything.

Here's my guess, I think that I made a mistake by letting the empty food bowls out and when I went inside, the pup started sniffing around the older dog's bowl and that didn't sit too well. The old dog growled and maybe snipped a little at the pup and then the fit hit the shan. I have since decided that food bowls will be put away after feeding time and I will continue to monitor feeding time. This evening, I put the pup on the stakeout and fed the old dog, then put the old dog on the stakeout and fed the pup. Anything different I should be doing?

Any opinions on the matter are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill

Trainer8307 · Post by **Trainer8307** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:35 pm

My experience is male dogs and fighting pretty much go together in many situations when they are not hunting. They can hunt together without a problem but idle time is different. I have some males I can put in the roading harness with another male and then I have some that want to fight another male. Interestingly, I have one male that will not fight most of the others but there is one in particular that he hates and will fight immediately. I read something on this a while back about two Alpha males will always fight and that may be what you have. I take a 2 dog electric collar and put one on each dog and let them start their scrap and I finish it. You have to put a collar on both dogs, though. If you start shocking the aggressor, the victim will become the aggressor. I had that happen a few weeks ago. What I do is try to avoid letting them get into a setting where they can fight but all my dogs are in kennels and that may not be possible for you. For what it's worth, spraying with a water hose is the best thing I have found to break up a dog fight. They will usually stop fighting when the water hits them and I don't have to get in the middle of it which is certain to get me hurt.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:19 pm

Next time, pour water on them.

BillGraves · Post by **BillGraves** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:19 pm

I'll have to remember the water trick! Neither of them likes the hose.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:25 pm

BillGraves wrote:I'll have to remember the water trick! Neither of them likes the hose.

Aha!

If you want to condition them to avoid each other at mealtime, I'd use that as a visual aid. Feed them together, not close, but where they can see each other, and keep the hose handy. A good, strong, trigger spray nozzle would be helpful. If one starts at the other, let him have it full blast. They need to learn to respect each others' space. Your goal is to have them finish dinner and go their own ways.

Failing that, get a female Australian or German shepherd.

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:59 pm

Yeah, always happens with males. But yes, the hose will 99% of the time separate them!

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:40 pm

Just a little heads up, but you should Never use Hydrogen Peroxide on dog wounds.

BillGraves · Post by **BillGraves** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:26 am

prairiefirepointers wrote:Just a little heads up, but you should Never use Hydrogen Peroxide on dog wounds.

Why?

shags · Post by **shags** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 am

Because it damages healthy tissue and interferes with healing.

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:53 am

shags wrote:Because it damages healthy tissue and interferes with healing.

What is a good alternative?

Doug

shags · Post by **shags** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:07 am

These days I use Veterycin. In previous years, triple antibiotic ointment.

For bite wounds I don't get in a rush to stop bleeding, because the flow helps to flush away bacteria from the bite. After a minute or so, gently wipe around the wound (don't disturb clots on the edges of the wound) with clean damp cloth to remove debris and blood then spritz with Veterycin or dab with 3X ab ointment.

The Veterycin is kind of pricey, but it works great. Doesn't sting and super-fast healing. I've used it on the horses, dogs, and us with great results.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:21 am

If you need to clean an open wound of debris, saline works fine.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:29 am

Bill, I am an ahole so what I am going to say I will take a lot of flack for but I don't care. In order to deter fighting in the future the next time they start you beat the holy heck out of both of those dogs so they realize you are the alpha dog in the family not either one of them and that should stop much of the fighting. Basically you have a power struggle going on and as long as one of them is not willing to give up it is going to get worse. I am sorry you were bitten and that is of more concern than anything I believe. If the dogs will not stop fighting and got so engrossed in it that you were bitten it is time for drastic measures. I am not in the "kinder gentler" camp, I am in the "get results" camp. Step up deliver a serious beating to each dog next time they fight and both of them should realize you are the boss and what you say goes. When you say stop growling, stop fighting, stop posturing then that is what you mean. I am not this way with all training only with the fighting issue and is one reason I only keep one male at a time. I prefer to deal with females fighting as it does not usually get as serious and this method has worked well for me. Good luck and hope you get the problem solved soon. Let the criticisms and insults begin.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:43 am

shags wrote:Because it damages healthy tissue and interferes with healing.

Exactly right.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:51 am

tommyboy72 wrote:Bill, I am an ahole so what I am going to say I will take a lot of flack for but I don't care. In order to deter fighting in the future the next time they start you beat the holy heck out of both of those dogs so they realize you are the alpha dog in the family not either one of them and that should stop much of the fighting. Basically you have a power struggle going on and as long as one of them is not willing to give up it is going to get worse. I am sorry you were bitten and that is of more concern than anything I believe. If the dogs will not stop fighting and got so engrossed in it that you were bitten it is time for drastic measures. I am not in the "kinder gentler" camp, I am in the "get results" camp. Step up deliver a serious beating to each dog next time they fight and both of them should realize you are the boss and what you say goes. When you say stop growling, stop fighting, stop posturing then that is what you mean. I am not this way with all training only with the fighting issue and is one reason I only keep one male at a time. I prefer to deal with females fighting as it does not usually get as serious and this method has worked well for me. Good luck and hope you get the problem solved soon. Let the criticisms and insults begin.

Wow. I have littermate brothers and have had males that hated each other and have never, ever, had a male intiated scrap that couldn't be broken up verbally with maybe a couple of whacks thrown in. Have dealt with a couple of outside dogs that were confirmed dog fighters, but that's another issue altogether. Here, we are talking about space and resource aggression. Now, the females (herding dogs, I'll admit) don't care how many times you lay into them or how hard. If they decide to get medieval, it takes water, PVC pipe, and whatever else is handy to break it up. I suppose it may be the type of dog, but girls are a LOT worse in my experience. For the record, I prefer to train the dogs to leave each other alone and respect each other's space and not let it get to the point of breaking up a fight. I'm sure others will malign your dog beating solution, but I'm just commenting on the fact that you have less trouble with females. If I never had another female, it wouldn't hurt my feelings.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:55 am

tommyboy72 wrote:beat the holy heck out of both of those dogs

I would agree but not for this instance, I believe a dog has the right to defend his food bowl. Now, a dog posturing or bullying another is a different story. Sounds to me that you have 2 normal dogs. You stated that they get along fine so I would simply be more careful during feeding time.

pointshootretrieve · Post by **pointshootretrieve** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:03 pm

Amen on the female thing. They are not usually trolling for a fight but when they decide to get it on THEY MEAN BUSINESS. Beating your dogs during and or after a fight may escalate your problem, watch some of Cesar Milan he'll teach you how to deal with aggression.

Chief_dog · Post by **Chief_dog** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:29 pm

I agree. The worst dog fights I've ever seen were between females.

The problem is that with some dogs, once they get a taste of fighting, they like it. I put down the nicest young dog I've owned in over 15 years because she decided that she liked to fight. I had her for a year and a half before she ever got into a fight. It started out just like the original poster described but she decided that she enjoyed fighting after that. I will put up with the occasional scrap because dogs are going to be dogs, but a confirmed fighter is a liability and will be culled if I'm the owner.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:40 pm

pointshootretrieve wrote:Beating your dogs

Poor choice of words perhaps but I will whoop a dog if needed.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:13 pm

I would personally never use an electric collar on a dog involved in a fight. It makes the dog think the other one is whooping up on him and makes him more and more aggressive. Before I read up on it, I tried it with my chessie who would attack my GSP (both females) - using the collar just made her more and more determined to take out the other dog. I use the collars for a lot of things, but wouldn't ever use them in a situation with a dog acting aggressively again - I learned my lesson on that one.

I would keep all "resources" away from the dogs when they're together - toys and food are examples of situations that might need extra caution - in some cases, dogs start "resource guarding" with their humans as well. Just keep them from these situations the best you can and then intervene (if you can) BEFORE the growls escalate to fighting. You'll have to be more diligent about this - keeping a good eye on them and coming down strong if they start to get out of hand. The key is to keep a good eye on them.

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:39 pm

I think the ecollar is good if used before the dog commits...There will be a sign the dog is challenging, an ear prick and posture in the first seconds is the time for the ecollar...If the dog is starting toward a dog, too late, will trigger it...One dog is the instigator, that is what you watch for...I agree on the food bowl thing...Keep dogs separated and bowls picked up. Avoid confrontation...I also agree you are the pac leader, I do not beat dogs, but dog is lifted off their feet and will gag a bit to know I am in charge. It will gain more respect IMO than the harshest beating.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:02 pm

snips wrote: but dog is lifted off their feet and will gag a bit to know I am in charge.

I do that also

.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:14 pm

First one I would catch with a mouth full would have a boot....... if it happens again sell the dog or shoot it and call it a loss.

Truthseeker · Post by **Truthseeker** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:35 pm

IME males fighting is manageable, females fighting is serious business.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:40 pm

prairiefirepointers wrote:
shags wrote:Because it damages healthy tissue and interferes with healing.
Exactly right.

I wish you guys would tell us where you saw this. I have Googled it and find nothing bad about using it. For a matter of fact, it is supposed to be one of the very best cleaning agents and is even recommended for internal use to some extent. Our doctor uses it and recommends it also. It is not as good as an antibiotic, since in the light it breaks down rapidly, for healing but is a terrific cleaner and disinfectant. And it has been approved for some internal usuage.

I admit, I am confuded as I can't find a thing that says that it is harmful in any way.

Ezzy

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:53 pm

Ezzy, I have cleaned dog wounds for 20+ years with hydrogen peroxide and triple antibiotic ointment. Right or wrong, I have not seen any ill effects from it.

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:24 pm

Ron R wrote:Ezzy, I have cleaned dog wounds for 20+ years with hydrogen peroxide and triple antibiotic ointment. Right or wrong, I have not seen any ill effects from it.

+1 (minus the 20 yrs sorry Ron

)

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:37 pm

"The Bottom Line HYDROGEN PEROXIDE IS BAD
I know when we were all children and you cut yourself of you scraped you knee, your mom would reach of one of two things. Alcohol, which we all hated because it burned so much, or she would get Hydrogen Peroxide, which didn't hurt all that much and it bubbled, which it the coolest thing in the world when you are 6 years old. Well parents, no longer reach for the Hydrogen Peroxide. And here is why i say this....
I am in nursing school and 4 weeks ago i did a rotation with a Wound Care nurse. If a patient has a big sore or a big wound she is a specialized nurse who does wound care. I noticed throughout the week that she never used any Hydrogen peroxide on any wounds. She said not only does it bubble and eat away and the bad bacteria in the wound, it is also eating away and bubbling away good tissue! This means you are actually doing more harm that good. Because the more of the good tissue that is eaten away, the longer the sore or cut takes to heal. Because it takes longer to heal, there is an increased risk for infection because it is open for a longer amount of time. She told me she never uses it because the patients in the hospital are already at risk for infection and she does'nt want anything to slow down wound healing.
It is more beneficial to clean cut or scrape with Normal saline(you can get it any any drug store). Normal saline is almost the same as diluted salt water, but normal saline is sterile and salt water is not. As soon as the cut or scrape occurs, clean it with normal saline. Get two 4x4 gauze and apply a triple antibiotic ointment to the gauze side that will be touching the skin. Spread it around evenly. Apply both 4x4's to the wound and secure with tape by taping all edges like a window pane and the securing with look horizontal strips of tape. You don't want use the first little bit of the ointment that comes out of the tube, because it might be contaminated. You also don't want to squeeze the ointment directly from the tube onto the skin, because the tube could touch the wound making it more dirty. The dressing should be changed once a day and it is probably best to change it during bath time because your going to have to take the old bandage off anyway. Never use the same only gauze two days in a row.
The wound care nurse also said, if you don't have any Normal Saline and all you have is hydrogen peroxide, dilute the peroxide. It should be about 3/4 water and may 1/4 peroxide. I will still eat away at the good and bad stuff, but it will not eat away as much and it would take alot longer than if you just poured it straight from the bottle.
If you following my advice the wound shouldn't take that long to heal. Just remember normal saline alot better."

Much opinion such as the above is out there.
If one is looking for scientific study evidence of the horrors of HP then that may be a tad scarce comparably.

Personally, I think it matters with the cut and the condition of the cut.
HP will bubble out "dirt" better, IMO than a saline flush.
Using HP every time tho is likely to not help much other than it can make us feel that "something" good is happening.
I would expect that some cut tissue damage could occur with the strongest HP tho many use HP as a mouth rinse.
Basically, if HP is all that is at hand or if the cleanliness of the cut suggests it's use then HP away.
I would tho not use it on any cut on a regular basis and would quickly fall to a Triple A after the initial treatment of the injury.
Just seems common sense.

shags · Post by **shags** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm

It's not a question of right or wrong, is it?

It's just that H2O2 is cytotoxic which is good when it's destroying cell walls in certain bacteria, but not so much when it targets leukocytes or fibroblasts. In wound healing you want to promote epithelialization and deposition of connective tissue, and by using H2O2 you may be inhibiting them; whereas with using normal saline or water to cleanse and an appropriate antibacterial, no additional harm is done to the natural healing process.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:27 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
prairiefirepointers wrote:
shags wrote:Because it damages healthy tissue and interferes with healing.
Exactly right.
I wish you guys would tell us where you saw this. I have Googled it and find nothing bad about using it. For a matter of fact, it is supposed to be one of the very best cleaning agents and is even recommended for internal use to some extent. Our doctor uses it and recommends it also. It is not as good as an antibiotic, since in the light it breaks down rapidly, for healing but is a terrific cleaner and disinfectant. And it has been approved for some internal usuage.

I admit, I am confuded as I can't find a thing that says that it is harmful in any way.

Ezzy

I think that every dog owner should own a copy of the "Dog Owners Home Veterinary Handbook" Its very resourceful, and handy to have. If you own it, and have read it, you would know this.

Three percent Hydrogen Peroxide, often recommended as a wound cleanser, has little value as an antiseptic and is extremely toxic to tissues. DO NOT use it on a fresh wound.

-DOG OWNERS HOME VETERINARY HANDBOOK, 3rd EDITION. James M. Giffin, MD & Liisa D. Carlson, DMV -Page 38, Paragraph 3, Line 5

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:43 pm

Guess it is back to the drawing board. Glad to read all that you posted but it sure flies in the face of what I know and have been told about HP. Here is a little blurb with just a bit of info about HP and the bubbles.

Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is something you can buy at the drug store. What you are buying is a 3-percent solution, meaning the bottle contains 97-percent water and 3-percent hydrogen peroxide. Most people use it as an antiseptic. It turns out that it is not very good as an antiseptic, but it is not bad for washing cuts and scrapes and the foaming looks cool.

The reason why it foams is because blood and cells contain an enzyme called catalase. Since a cut or scrape contains both blood and damaged cells, there is lots of catalase floating around.

Note it is H2O2 so should be called hydrogen dioxide. It contains nothing except oxegen and hydrogen, same as water but it does bubble when it is losing oxegen when it comes in contact with catalase but that has little to do with live healthy tissue.

The only other comment I will make we started using it at the recommendation of our doctor when the kids were young and constantly getting scraped up. You can buy it in health food shops as well as other places for internal use and has been used like that for some years with out harmful effects.

So I guess it is up to each of you to do what you feel best as there seems to be some real conflicting stuff written about it's use. When you have time start by googling Hydrogen Peroxide and spend some time reading, though I found little information that says it is harmful.

Ezzy

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:40 pm

I knew I would catch some criticism for this post and am sorry if I offended anyone but I was just telling the truth. Ron I know you know more about dogs than I will probably ever learn but I don't even tolerate fighting over food. A growl and a snap but not an all out brawl over food. I free feed and feed my dogs table scraps all the time but they know not to fight over the food because an "bleep" whippin will ensue. Have never had a problem with fighting after the first incidence not even over food. Have never tried an E collar to fix fights either since fights usually break out at times when E collars are not on. I only have E collars on mine when training and hunting. Fights generally occur at home in the yard. As far as the antiseptic I usually use Dr. Naylor Blu Kote pump spray. Stings a bit but it is an antiseptic and fungicide but it coats well and stays on better and longer than other antiseptics I have used.

cmc274 · Post by **cmc274** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:58 pm

I asked my mom and she said they stopped using hp in hospitals (human) long ago as it does more damage than good. They use betadine.

tnbndr · Post by **tnbndr** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:12 am

intervene (if you can) BEFORE the growls escalate to fighting. You'll have to be more diligent about this - keeping a good eye on them and coming down strong if they start to get out of hand. The key is to keep a good eye on them.

This is the key around our house. Any sign of posturing or growling gets immediate attention and breakup.
After 10 months together our two females got into one day when I wasn't around and wifey got in the middle and got bit good. She now knows the signs to look for and has become pro-active in keeping an eye on them and stopping unwanted behavior quickly. Got her a wiffle ball bat (recommended by trainer) just in case she has to break up another tussle. We feed them together with no issues but something triggered them that day (it was another dog presence).

snips · Post by **snips** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:35 am

Wiffle bats are great, used to use one on my brother when we were kids.....

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:25 am

Mountaineer wrote:The Bottom Line HYDROGEN PEROXIDE IS BAD

Mountaineer wrote:I am in nursing school and 4 weeks ago i did a rotation with a Wound Care nurse.

OK, I got this figured out. I work at a hospital and just finished talking with one our wound care physicians regarding this subject. Hydrogen peroxide is fine on a fresh cut for the initial cleaning but ounce the wound is cleaned it is not recommended for continued use due to like you stated it eats away good bacteria and it is never esued for large or deep wounds. So, for the first time everybody is right

, in a sense. So, that is why I have never seen any ill effects because I would rinse the wounds with hydrogen peroxide then apply triple antibiotic ointment to the wounds. I would also give anywhere from one to three cc's of combiatic (penicilin-antibiotic) that can be purchased at most farm and feed stores for three days.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:46 am

My medical background doesn't come from the hospital setting, but from the field. (EMS) - I am neither a Doctor or a Veterinarian. However, If I read from a Veterinary handbook that says NOT to use it, that it is toxic to tissues, I am not going to ignore such a recommendation.

There are always those who can't stand to be wrong who will find whatever they can to convince themselves otherwise.

Can we assume that Human tissue and Canine tissue are the EXACT same make-up and have the EXACT same healing properties? Hense "whats good for the goose is good for the gander?"

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:09 am

prairiefirepointers wrote:There are always those who can't stand to be wrong who will find whatever they can to convince themselves otherwise.

I am not one of those types but I am a problem solver and hydrogen peroxide is not dangerous. The goal is to heal the wound and it will prevent healing by damaging good bacteria and tissue if used after the first cleaning/rinsing and is meant to be used on fresh wounds not continuous or daily use. Except it or don't but that is the truth.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:19 am

I just use betadine for wounds on my dogs - I only keep hydrogen peroxide for inducing vomiting. My sis is a horse trainer and she stopped using hydrogen peroxide on them long ago. I followed suit with my dogs years ago.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:28 am

tommyboy72 wrote:but I don't even tolerate fighting over food.

My dogs are kenneled and fed seperately so it's a non issue for me and you have a good handle on your dogs behavior. I guess what I'm saying is that a dog that growls or fights for it's food is not abnormal and if one of mine did I just wouldn't care enough to break them of it. With your set up it couldn't be tolerated. I truely have no idea if any of my dogs are food agressive. Maybe I will see if I can get them to fight tonight...I'm joking about that

.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:29 pm

Ron R wrote:
prairiefirepointers wrote:There are always those who can't stand to be wrong who will find whatever they can to convince themselves otherwise.
I am not one of those types but I am a problem solver and hydrogen peroxide is not dangerous. The goal is to heal the wound and it will prevent healing by damaging good bacteria and tissue if used after the first cleaning/rinsing and is meant to be used on fresh wounds not continuous or daily use. Except it or don't but that is the truth.

Yeah, well I'm a realist; And the reality is, that I am not going to use something that IS harmful or MIGHT be harmful. Especially if I see "DO NOT USE" in plain black and white.

To each their own.

markj · Post by **markj** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:42 pm

Hydrogen peroxide is fine on a fresh cut for the initial cleaning but ounce the wound is cleaned it is not recommended for continued use due to like you stated it eats away good bacteria and it is never used for large or deep wounds.

This is true. Use it on the cut at first to flush out the debris if any then a triple antibiotic. I have used betadine on everything from horses run thru a fence to dogs tore up by varmints or fences.

My wife is EMS for sure but she is also a resp threapist was working on a DR degree till she met me

she also is a crash team, if you come in dead she works on ya. She will say use saline but she does use HP on our boy when he gets a cut. My wife is so busy I almost never see her

works 12 hour shifts, teaches 3 college classes at a community college, works on VFD A marriage made in heaven

lets me do as I please and I do the same for her.

Fighting dogs can be a PIA, I have one wants to kill every male around at the least little hint of a gal in season. He is in a high security jail type kennel most of the time until I decide what to do with him. I have beat him, used a collar, picked him up by his rear legs and swung him around. It works for awhile, then one day you hear the fight and have a go at him again. A hose works good but by the time I go over there and turn it on and come back to hose em one would be dead. I am talking about tears in teh hide 12 in or longer take 20 or more stitches to close up. Never saw this in any shorthair I ever owned and I owned a lot of em.

I wont do this again, next dog fights is a goner one way or the other. I am not wantong to have tp break up any more fights or have to sew up any more wounds.

BillGraves · Post by **BillGraves** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:49 pm

markj wrote:
Hydrogen peroxide is fine on a fresh cut for the initial cleaning but ounce the wound is cleaned it is not recommended for continued use due to like you stated it eats away good bacteria and it is never used for large or deep wounds.
This is true. Use it on the cut at first to flush out the debris if any then a triple antibiotic. I have used betadine on everything from horses run thru a fence to dogs tore up by varmints or fences.

My wife is EMS for sure but she is also a resp threapist was working on a DR degree till she met me she also is a crash team, if you come in dead she works on ya. She will say use saline but she does use HP on our boy when he gets a cut. My wife is so busy I almost never see her works 12 hour shifts, teaches 3 college classes at a community college, works on VFD A marriage made in heaven lets me do as I please and I do the same for her.

Fighting dogs can be a PIA, I have one wants to kill every male around at the least little hint of a gal in season. He is in a high security jail type kennel most of the time until I decide what to do with him. I have beat him, used a collar, picked him up by his rear legs and swung him around. It works for awhile, then one day you hear the fight and have a go at him again. A hose works good but by the time I go over there and turn it on and come back to hose em one would be dead. I am talking about tears in teh hide 12 in or longer take 20 or more stitches to close up. Never saw this in any shorthair I ever owned and I owned a lot of em.

I wont do this again, next dog fights is a goner one way or the other. I am not wantong to have tp break up any more fights or have to sew up any more wounds.

That dog would be a goner in my book too. This was a little tussle that resulted in only a minor cut in an ear. If it would have been any worse, I might have felt differently and gotten rid of one of them. Sadly, I don't know which one started it, though I have my suspicions.

Bill

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:10 pm

markj wrote:
Hydrogen peroxide is fine on a fresh cut for the initial cleaning but ounce the wound is cleaned it is not recommended for continued use due to like you stated it eats away good bacteria and it is never used for large or deep wounds.
This is true. Use it on the cut at first to flush out the debris if any then a triple antibiotic. I have used betadine on everything from horses run thru a fence to dogs tore up by varmints or fences.

My wife is EMS for sure but she is also a resp threapist was working on a DR degree till she met me she also is a crash team, if you come in dead she works on ya. She will say use saline but she does use HP on our boy when he gets a cut. My wife is so busy I almost never see her works 12 hour shifts, teaches 3 college classes at a community college, works on VFD A marriage made in heaven lets me do as I please and I do the same for her.

Fighting dogs can be a PIA, I have one wants to kill every male around at the least little hint of a gal in season. He is in a high security jail type kennel most of the time until I decide what to do with him. I have beat him, used a collar, picked him up by his rear legs and swung him around. It works for awhile, then one day you hear the fight and have a go at him again. A hose works good but by the time I go over there and turn it on and come back to hose em one would be dead. I am talking about tears in teh hide 12 in or longer take 20 or more stitches to close up. Never saw this in any shorthair I ever owned and I owned a lot of em.

I wont do this again, next dog fights is a goner one way or the other. I am not wantong to have tp break up any more fights or have to sew up any more wounds.

Neuter the fighter. It doesn't always work, but it might help in this case. I'd have him on Clomicalm, too, for six months or so after the surgery.

BillGraves · Post by **BillGraves** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:19 pm

The fighter is neutered!

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:26 pm

BillGraves wrote:The fighter is neutered!

Not yours, Mark's.

Your dogs, I would train to stay on stand, sit, or lie down with the empty bowl as a a cue. That way, when he was finished eating, each dog would remain by his bowl in anticipation of a reward. A dental treat, a Milk Bone, or a piece of cheese given at release would reinforce the stay.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:37 pm

Seriously? Cut his balls off and put him on psych meds? Really? Here is a list of what that drug is used for in humans. You do know that it came to this country as a drug for humans right? It is marketed under Clomicalm for veterinary use but it's real name is Clomipramine. It's a dog not a kid who has ADD that you want to put on Ritalin. And by the way I would beat both my sons asses before I put them on Ritalin. Stuff like this is what is wrong with the world today. Cajun I am sure you are a good person and mean well but that is one of the most over the top things I have ever heard of when dealing with dogs. No offense to you or your methods. I am just stating my opinion. Here is the list.

Obsessive compulsive disorder approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration Major depression
Panic disorder with or without agoraphobia
Narcolepsy
Premature ejaculation
Depersonalization disorder
Chronic pain with or without organic disease, particular headache of the tension type
Enuresis (involuntary nightly urinating in sleep) in children and adolescents
Cataplexy

Clomipramine had been used experimentally to reduce relapses in cocaine addicts, and to repair neurotransmitter damage caused by cocaine; however, further studies are needed in this area. Clomipramine has also been used experimentally to treat dogs with severe anxiety disorders (separation anxiety, etc.), OCD, or cognitive dysfunction syndrome.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:59 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:Seriously? Cut his balls off and put him on psych meds? Really? Here is a list of what that drug is used for in humans. You do know that it came to this country as a drug for humans right? It is marketed under Clomicalm for veterinary use but it's real name is Clomipramine. It's a dog not a kid who has ADD that you want to put on Ritalin. And by the way I would beat both my sons asses before I put them on Ritalin. Stuff like this is what is wrong with the world today. Cajun I am sure you are a good person and mean well but that is one of the most over the top things I have ever heard of when dealing with dogs. No offense to you or your methods. I am just stating my opinion. Here is the list.

Obsessive compulsive disorder approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration Major depression
Panic disorder with or without agoraphobia
Narcolepsy
Premature ejaculation
Depersonalization disorder
Chronic pain with or without organic disease, particular headache of the tension type
Enuresis (involuntary nightly urinating in sleep) in children and adolescents
Cataplexy

Clomipramine had been used experimentally to reduce relapses in cocaine addicts, and to repair neurotransmitter damage caused by cocaine; however, further studies are needed in this area. Clomipramine has also been used experimentally to treat dogs with severe anxiety disorders (separation anxiety, etc.), OCD, or cognitive dysfunction syndrome.

This is an abstract on using anti-psychotic drugs to treat canine anxiety. Dr. Overall's work is my primary source of information on the use of SSRIs and TCAs for rehabilitation of extreme cases of aggression and anxiety in canines. I rather prefer less drastic measures. One thing to keep in mind is the breed of dog. GSPs seem inclined to OCD manifestations and anti-psychotic drugs have been show to help break pattern aggression.

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/Ve ... ail/416167

Of course, another option is to kill the dog.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:30 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:Seriously? Cut his balls off and put him on psych meds? Really? And by the way I would beat both my sons asses before I put them on Ritalin. Stuff like this is what is wrong with the world today.

T- I was enjoying a Freezer Pop and reading this thread when I came to your post... I am now cleaning Freezer pop off my screen.

I am in agreeance with you. To many mamby pamby ways of thinking and acting these days. I have 2 intact males and a unaltered Bitch sharing our mudroom and all eat within 3 feet of one another. The other night I was changing the water in their water bucket in the mudroom. My wife was putting clothes into the dryer when my Lab Barked an aggressive bark at my Pointer Stud. (My lab can be a grouch sometimes) Scared the heck out of my wife as his head was right there by my wife. My Lab couldn't get out the door fast enuf. I was quicker and grabbed his collar before he jolted out the door. A rap up side the head and a stern talking to right on the spot. 10 Mins later I went out back and called him over and we made up.

My dogs know that if they fight, one of them is going to receive 2 a*s whoopins. I wont tolerate it. I had a fighter in my camp and most of you know how that ended. Maybe I should have put her on psyc meds and bought her a depression light. :roll:

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:42 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
tommyboy72 wrote:Seriously? Cut his balls off and put him on psych meds? Really? Here is a list of what that drug is used for in humans. You do know that it came to this country as a drug for humans right? It is marketed under Clomicalm for veterinary use but it's real name is Clomipramine. It's a dog not a kid who has ADD that you want to put on Ritalin. And by the way I would beat both my sons asses before I put them on Ritalin. Stuff like this is what is wrong with the world today. Cajun I am sure you are a good person and mean well but that is one of the most over the top things I have ever heard of when dealing with dogs. No offense to you or your methods. I am just stating my opinion. Here is the list.

This is an abstract on using anti-psychotic drugs to treat canine anxiety. Dr. Overall's work is my primary source of information on the use of SSRIs and TCAs for rehabilitation of extreme cases of aggression and anxiety in canines. I rather prefer less drastic measures. One thing to keep in mind is the breed of dog. GSPs seem inclined to OCD manifestations and anti-psychotic drugs have been show to help break pattern aggression.

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/Ve ... ail/416167

Of course, another option is to kill the dog.

This is an example of complete over kill just because two dogs got in a fight over a dog food. And that was caused by owner error. You can take control without neutering which would seldom help or buying a drug to put the dogs half to sleep for the next 6 months. Lets just not feed the dogs together and see what happens or do feed them together and you stay in the middle to insure they don't start something.

Just a little corrective action will normally be enough if you use good manament instead of trying to buy something to do it for you.

Ezzy