Males $400 - Females $500

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:09 pm

Everytime I see something like this I get aggravated. It just seems so puppy millish to me. Meaning, alot of the toy/trendy breeders do this but I hate seeing any breed of hunting dogs advertised this way. I prefer to see a litter advertised for the same price, NOT males $400 / females $500 OR liver $400 / black $500. There is nothing wrong with it and it's the owner of the litter's perogative as to how they want to advertise but it just rubs me the wrong way (along with a few other things). Any thoughts?

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:16 pm

Supply...Demand

BillGraves · Post by **BillGraves** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:17 pm

I always wondered why they were different prices myself. I mean, they come from the same stock and should have the same potential, right? Maybe it's something to do with possibility of breeding a female and making money off her as opposed to having just a stud dog?

Bill

Post by **topher40** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:24 pm

Ron-
I hate to mention it although I do have a litter on the ground if your interested, 750 males and 1,000 females. Did the price change anything?

I havent ever seen a reason for it either and havent ever charged more based on sex.

Firemedic · Post by **Firemedic** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:31 pm

I'll take the cheaper one......

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:31 pm

I would charge more for the ones I didn't like color wise. Why would I want to get stuck with an ugly pup? Remember, rule #1: always look good :b

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:31 pm

I have been tempted to make the spread even wider, too often the requests are three to one female over male, and at some point price may steer folks to male puppies.

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:34 pm

Four out of every five requests I get is for a female pup. That means if my female has a 10 pup litter I have 8 people wanting females and 2 people wanting males. If your litter is half males and half females you have to have a lower price on the males in order to give people an incentive to get a male. My goal is to get the entire litter to good homes right away and not keep a pup until it is a year old in my kennel hoping to eventually get it to a good home. I have 4 dogs of my own to train and hunt--I don't have the time to put into a pup to get it to a started dog. I only have one litter a year so I'm not really a puppy mill(I did have 2 litters in one year once). I think I do more good for the pups by getting them to their new owners right away. If that means selling the males a little cheaper than the females, then that's what I'll do for the good of the pups. :roll:

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:34 pm

BillGraves wrote:I always wondered why they were different prices myself. I mean, they come from the same stock and should have the same potential, right? Maybe it's something to do with possibility of breeding a female and making money off her as opposed to having just a stud dog?

Bill

The female pup is in more demand. Why? It could be for breeding potential but I doubt it on average. The answer is that getting a puppy is not always mom's idea of fun but generally busy mom's are more tolerant of female pups. So dad will naturally pay-up a little to keep the peace at home.

Plain and simple.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:49 pm

I usually charge the same for all pups but most charge more for females because in my experience I get twice as many calls for females as males.
I do remember one time having 2 pups I wanted to keep out of a litter so asked $50 more for them a solid lvr male & the only w & lvr female guess what it wasn't enough because they were the first 2 sold.The female first then the male,kinda makes you wonder.Sometimes it seems the more you ask the faster they sell.

Fester · Post by **Fester** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:52 pm

I think some folks think females are easier to train, I will take a male every time, I just like everything about them better
Fester

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:00 pm

ultracarry wrote:I would charge more for the ones I didn't like color wise. Why would I want to get stuck with an ugly pup?

Most folks pick thier pup first anyway...I know I do.

deseeker wrote:Four out of every five requests I get is for a female pup.

The majority of requests I get are for males but the price remains the same for both.

deseeker wrote: My goal is to get the entire litter to good homes right away and not keep a pup until it is a year old

If that's truely your goal then give the pups away if they don't sell in the time frame that you're comfortable with.

mcbosco wrote: The answer is that getting a puppy is not always mom's idea of fun but generally busy mom's are more tolerant of female pups. So dad will naturally pay-up a little to keep the peace at home.

Plain and simple.

A spouse should not have any say as to what the other wants to hunt behind. Plain and simple.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:02 pm

by Ron R

it just rubs me the wrong way (along with a few other things).

Ron,

What else is troubling you? Get it off your chest. I don't want to see you turn cranky and combative...

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:09 pm

I think people price females higher because they'll use them to raise pups later. Maybe right or wrong, idunno. JMO

If that is the case, what does it matter? If an extra $100 is going to twart your business or breeding program then you don't have much of a program.

- I could care less, providing they're competent and have the right intentions. I make all my pups be registered with "Prairie Fire" in their registered name now, so whether they breed or not, it'll show up as one of Prairie Fire Pointers' pups/dogs.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:11 pm

Chukar12 wrote:
by Ron R
it just rubs me the wrong way (along with a few other things).
Ron,

What else is troubling you? Get it off your chest. I don't want to see you turn cranky and combative...

It would be impollite and offend more than a few on here. I just have to barry it deep inside

.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:14 pm

I was afraid of that...
My next litter I am goiving you a pup the gender of your choice, an orange and white ball of fur will give you perspective...point you some birds, renew your faith in man kind, change the political climate, alter global warming, probably bring peace to the middle east...well you get it...

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:14 pm

A spouse should not have any say as to what the other wants to hunt behind. Plain and simple.

Ron, I'm guessing your single, right?

shags · Post by **shags** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:18 pm

Ron R wrote:A spouse should not have any say as to what the other wants to hunt behind. Plain and simple.

Is this a clue to your mood?

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:19 pm

nikegundog wrote:
A spouse should not have any say as to what the other wants to hunt behind. Plain and simple.
Ron, I'm guessing your single, right?

I wish.....sometimes. Married for 9 long years.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:19 pm

nikegundog wrote:
A spouse should not have any say as to what the other wants to hunt behind. Plain and simple.
Ron, I'm guessing your single, right?

I just asked my wife if she had the choice between a female or male pup which she would pick. She replied, "that is a stupid question"

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:20 pm

Chukar12 wrote:I was afraid of that...
My next litter I am goiving you a pup the gender of your choice, an orange and white ball of fur will give you perspective...point you some birds, renew your faith in man kind, change the political climate, alter global warming, probably bring peace to the middle east...well you get it...

A BIG + 1

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:34 pm

Come on Ron, the easiest solution to this is not to buy a puppy from a litter/breeder that does such things that you disagree with or annoy you. IMO puppies should be priced the same regardless of color or gender but hey it's none of my business what someone else wants to do with their litter.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:00 pm

ACooper wrote:Come on Ron, the easiest solution to this is not to buy a puppy from a litter/breeder that does such things that you disagree with or annoy you.

I kind of thought that goes without saying. I would never do business with anyone that prices pups like that or puts stipulations on a pup after I purchase it. Once I give you my money, the pup and his registration papers are mine to do with whatever I like.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:21 pm

I agree with you 100% Ron and I also agree with the comment you made about getting pups into good homes. My last litter had very little outside interest so I ended up giving away every single pup in the litter to good homes other than the one I kept for myself and one male pup that Prairie Fire Pointers, to his credit, refused to take for free and actually traded me some training equipment for. I hate hearing, "Oh, I am not in it to make money, I just want the pups to go to good hunting homes." Why then do some people who make that statement keep a puppy until they are a year or older in their kennel before they would lower their price or give the pup to a deserving owner who would give it a good home. I did not have the room nor did I want to feed 7 additional pups so they all went to really good homes free of charge. I did charge a delivery fee when I had to drive 300 miles roundtrip to Lamar, Co. to deliver a pup but that was to cover the cost of my gas and none more. I wish some breeders would just admit I am in this to make money, it is a business for me, I breed several litters a year and the only reason I trial and guide hunts is to promote my breeding stock and make money off the pups. Honesty would be refreshing.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:33 pm

I would never do business with anyone that prices pups like that or puts stipulations on a pup after I purchase it. Once I give you my money, the pup and his registration papers are mine to do with whatever I like.[/quote]

I agree with the weird pricing strategy thing - no reason for pricing like that. However, to disagree with you, I am a big fan of a breeder that knows enough about the line of dogs to know whether they're selling you a "pet" puppy or a "breeding" quality puppy and will insist upon you not breeding the dog. That's just me though. I have absolutely no problem with buying a puppy on a limited registration because it has an underbite, overbite, funny color or something else like that. I have a lot of respect for a breeder that will do their best to insure that sub-par dogs don't breed. But I will tell ya', many a folks I hunt with were flabbergasted that I would buy a pup on a "limited registration". Turned out fine with the current one since I decided to show him and he needed his full registration for that - I got that from the breeder because she saw I was serious about showing him. Anyway, I've since neutered him as I can get a better pup (I believe) out of his brother since he has better conformation.

madmurph · Post by **madmurph** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:29 pm

Although I'm sure most will disagree with me, I must say that this was one of the more interesting threads that I have read. There was nothing that was hugely controversial or any serious arguments here, but this post did get me thinking quite a bit. Keep it going guys (and gals). BTW, I do agree Ron, with breeders that sell males and females for the same price.

Birddog 307 · Post by **Birddog 307** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:02 pm

I breed only one or two litters a year and most of the time it is only one litter. This year was a two litter year because we have had people that were waiting for a repeat breeding for over a year. I am not sure about some of the breeders but I bet I do not make two dollars an hour for the time I put into the pups. My wife keeps the books and she says we will never ever be in the black. If it was not my love of dogs and trying to breed the best I would think of better ways to spend my money. I imagine some people can stick the pups out in the garage or barn and not do much with them and make a little money but I can't. Right now we have had a litter in our front room that is over four weeks old and this is a typical day. Get up at five in the morning and let the mother out and of course the pups are all up and pooping and peeing. Change the towels in the whelping box and the paper in the pooping area. Then fix them their puppy chow and let them eat. Then it is time to clean up the paper again. We have a potty area to try to get the pups a headstart on potty training. Then we let mom visit for a while with the pups till she can't stand their teeth anymore. We keep the pups in the living room so they get socialized to loud sounds and people as much as possible. Feeding three times a day and cleanup is a job in itself. We hold the pups one on one letting them learn about resistance and of course play time. As the pups get a little older they will be moved to the garage Where they will be kept in the puppy kennel with straw and this will help on the cleanup. But then we put lots of time taking pups on little walks outside so they are use to this also. This is not even talking about from the time spent whelping to now. I disagree about about a free pup that is going to a good home will have have as good of home as someone that has paid hard earned money for it. Most people that buy a dog know about the breed and what that dog is going to need. I know there will be exceptions to this but people have got a hunting dog for free are more apt to get tired of it and send it down the road. When we sell a pup the new owner is free to do with it as they please with no restrictions. I do not like to see a pup with breeding or name restrictions. When selling pups we are very picky as to who we sell to. We do not want to see our dogs in American Brittany Rescue because someone thought the pup was cute when they bought it. I try to breed the best and do the best for the pups and if that means holding a pup and starting it on birds so be it. I think there are to many people breeding dogs that do not think of the consequences of having litters.
Birddog 307

SHORTFAT · Post by **SHORTFAT** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:38 pm

Chukar12 wrote:I was afraid of that...
My next litter I am goiving you a pup the gender of your choice, an orange and white ball of fur will give you perspective...point you some birds, renew your faith in man kind, change the political climate, alter global warming, probably bring peace to the middle east...well you get it...

Hey!!! wait a sec there Chukar12!!! I'm crankey and combative too!!! can I have a pup???

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:42 pm

Ron R wrote:
ACooper wrote:Come on Ron, the easiest solution to this is not to buy a puppy from a litter/breeder that does such things that you disagree with or annoy you.
I kind of thought that goes without saying. I would never do business with anyone that prices pups like that or puts stipulations on a pup after I purchase it. Once I give you my money, the pup and his registration papers are mine to do with whatever I like.

Well I guess I don't see what the issue is then... are you a democrat?

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:03 pm

ACooper wrote:... are you a democrat?

Not A Chance....And Not Funny

.

northern cajun · Post by **northern cajun** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:22 pm

Oh heck every one knows bitches are better

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:21 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:I agree with you 100% Ron and I also agree with the comment you made about getting pups into good homes. My last litter had very little outside interest so I ended up giving away every single pup in the litter to good homes other than the one I kept for myself and one male pup that Prairie Fire Pointers, to his credit, refused to take for free and actually traded me some training equipment for. I hate hearing, "Oh, I am not in it to make money, I just want the pups to go to good hunting homes." Why then do some people who make that statement keep a puppy until they are a year or older in their kennel before they would lower their price or give the pup to a deserving owner who would give it a good home. I did not have the room nor did I want to feed 7 additional pups so they all went to really good homes free of charge. I did charge a delivery fee when I had to drive 300 miles roundtrip to Lamar, Co. to deliver a pup but that was to cover the cost of my gas and none more. I wish some breeders would just admit I am in this to make money, it is a business for me, I breed several litters a year and the only reason I trial and guide hunts is to promote my breeding stock and make money off the pups. Honesty would be refreshing.

I hear ya Tommy. - I breed 1 litter a year so far and I've cleared a couple to a few thousand dollars on every litter I've had. I love what I do, I am continually doing what I can to improve accomodations for my dogs, improve every litter bred (unless repeat breeding) and place them in the best homes possible. Most people that buy dogs/pups from me are serious birddog people and have more money than me. I depend on the money I make from my litters because between PFP and PFP Supply, and my wife working that is our only income. I do spend a lot of hours and late nights, but its not ditch digging work. I make money, sure I do and I have to. The reason I spend the extra time with a dog client, or do extra legwork for a customer on a E-Collar is because my 19 month old daughter deserves every opportunity I can afford her.

I make money selling birddogs. Commence with the slings and arrows.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:56 am

that happens alot, charging more for females or different colors..also i see a higher fee for PAPERS, now that burns my butt, why would you have a litter that you will sell cheaper without papers and encourage the purchase of a pup with no registration

.. i have on more than one occasion paid more for things that i found cheaper later so i am just programmed to get ripped of, so if any of you have a pup you are charging more for in your litter i will be in touch when to pick it up

....ruth

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:49 am

prairiefirepointers wrote:I make money selling birddogs.

LUCKY

.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:42 am

Ron R wrote:
prairiefirepointers wrote:I make money selling birddogs.
LUCKY .

+1 to the LUCKY

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:17 am

Breeders dont do it for the money?? AND they dont make anything doing it?? TOTAL BS. IF they dont make money, they wouldnt do it, period. And if they are not making money, they clearly shouldnt be doing it, as they are probably terrible business people. Now, will they get rich, heck no. But to claim they dont make anything or are not doing it for the money is complete and total crap. I have had litters and did some part time work with a kennel, unless the breeder/kennel have no idea what they are doing, they make some money on every litter. If all someone wants is to get the pups to "good hunting homes" go to your local training group, NAVHDA, FT buddies or what ever and give em away or charge just enought to cover stud, vet, and time. If its a supply and demand thing, THAT is based on money, thats why a breeder would charge more for a female/certain color, ect. The supply and demand theory is business based, thrying to make MORE money. IF getting them to good homes was the goal, and not making money, drop the price of the litter, dont charge more for the females.

The guy who has one litter a year and doesnt have repeat clients or a track record with repeat breedings, or just wanted a pup for himself, probably wont make any money on a litter. But if an actual breeders cant/doesnt make money, someone needs to tell them they are in the wrong business cuz they obviously dont know what they are doing.

Charging more for a pup based on color, sex, or anything else from the same breeding is weird IMO. While I would prefer a female, I would pick the breeding first, and pick in my spot, whatever was there. Also, breeders who sell on "restricted or limited registration" are a bit arrogant IMO. You want my money, I should get the pup and the papers, period.

This is an entertaining thread.

orbirdhunter · Post by **orbirdhunter** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:37 am

its seems pretty simple to me. Females are in much higher demand then males. Therefore breeders often times may have to sell males at a lower price then females to sell them....

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:04 am

What's everyones thoughts on the following---I've seen adds that say 1st pick $700, 2nd &3rd pick $600, 4th & 5th pick $500, all other picks $400. I've also seen show people puppy adds that say --- Show quality pup one price, pet quality pup a lot lower price. It all comes down to money and doing what it takes to get the pups moved. Also say you had 2 stud dogs that were full brothers---one a national champ(constant winner) and the other a FC that won every once and awhile. They have the same bloodline, are you going to charge the same for stud fees---I didn't think so, Constant winner will have higher stud fees.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:51 am

It seems to be part of the 'breeders code' to deny deny deny that they ever profit from a litter

, now on the other hand for many breeders the outlay of cash to campaign title and prove breeding stock, pay vet and food bills etc, far out weighs the income from puppies. Puppies SHOULD offset some of the cost though. Of course there are exceptions to everything I just wrote.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:34 pm

deseeker wrote:What's everyones thoughts on the following---I've seen adds that say 1st pick $700, 2nd &3rd pick $600, 4th & 5th pick $500, all other picks $400.

DISGUST.

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:51 pm

deseeker wrote:What's everyones thoughts on the following---I've seen adds that say 1st pick $700, 2nd &3rd pick $600, 4th & 5th pick $500, all other picks $400. I've also seen show people puppy adds that say --- Show quality pup one price, pet quality pup a lot lower price. It all comes down to money and doing what it takes to get the pups moved. Also say you had 2 stud dogs that were full brothers---one a national champ(constant winner) and the other a FC that won every once and awhile. They have the same bloodline, are you going to charge the same for stud fees---I didn't think so, Constant winner will have higher stud fees.

Any of those scenerios are ridicolous IMO. The ONLY reason a breeding should ever take place, is for a purpose and to better the breed. Any buyer of a pup, who would actually pay more for the pick, isnt very bright IMO. If a breeder has "show quality" and "pet quality" in the same litter, AND they already know which are which before 7 weeks old, isnt a reputable breeder, its a puppy mill, at best. Said breeder should have known before the breeding if they were breeding show dogs, pets, or whatever.

The kennel I worked on part time (nothing more than a pooper scooper and dog exerciser), discounted 2 pups, ever, that I know of. One of them had a hernia from when the dam of the litter was a bit rough with the ambilical cord, so he discounted that due to vet bills I assume. And another had a tail (gsp) that got broke in a weird spot, too low I think and it looked goofy. Those kinds of discounts I can understand, any of the rest of it is just crazy.

I also wonder, if they are selling the Males for 400.00 and females for 500.00, are they raising the price on the females or lowering the price of the males??? My guess, raising the female price.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:39 pm

baileydog2007 wrote:
Any of those scenerios are ridicolous IMO. The ONLY reason a breeding should ever take place, is for a purpose and to better the breed. Any buyer of a pup, who would actually pay more for the pick, isnt very bright IMO. If a breeder has "show quality" and "pet quality" in the same litter, AND they already know which are which before 7 weeks old, isnt a reputable breeder, its a puppy mill, at best. Said breeder should have known before the breeding if they were breeding show dogs, pets, or whatever.

I certainly agree that the only reason a breeding should take place is to better the breed. But I do think a breeder OFTEN has "show" and "pet" quality in the same litter. And in those cases, the litters are evaluated by outside experts (at least in the case of the Vizsla breeders I know) at 8-9 weeks old. You certainly can get a good idea of which pups are more conformationally correct by 9 weeks old. Even breeding two CH together does not make an entire litter of CH puppies. A whole 'nother can 'o' worms, but puppies don't need to be going to new homes at 7 weeks old anyway - that's old school. A lot of learning has taken place on pup socialization and MANY reputable breeders keep pups until they're around 10 weeks old.

tn red · Post by **tn red** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:55 pm

Its not hard dont buy them,no worse than all the ads i see for Elhew dogs that maybe has one dog Wehle bred 4 generations back!

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:19 pm

tn red wrote:Its not hard dont buy them,no worse than all the ads i see for Elhew dogs that maybe has one dog Wehle bred 4 generations back!

Exactly! more than one way to sell dogs!

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:30 pm

How about dogs that have a crooked tail on point that is almost flat with their back... if that a desired trait you want in a dog? Just because a dog can hunt does not mean its improving the breed, and MH after six years and 40+ attempts? Who wants that..

oakcreek · Post by **oakcreek** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:55 am

I typically price them according to what is in demand.

markj · Post by **markj** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:40 pm

are you a democrat

There are 14 of em in town, and we know who they are

love that mocie sirry about posting this if it offends or you are indeed an democrat

I alwys priced em the same no more for a female. I see it as a new thing the younger generation is doing. I never saw it up till 10 years or so ago.

What about the ones ask more for a black? Way I see it, a pup is a pup. I see one I want I buy it. Male or female.