History Topic

jlowery · Post by **jlowery** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:04 pm

Just wanted to get some thoughts if you think that Bird dogs are better in the present, or in the Past, when bird numbers were a lot better than they are now? (Quail) in particular (Oklahoma boy here). Do you think Wild Bird numbers made better dogs, or has Training, technology, and Breeding evolving made todays dogs better.

Does anyone have any opinions about if were are Inclining or Declining in popularity of the sport?

I took this up when i lost my Grandfather. He is the one that got me into Pheasant hunting in Kansas, Talking Dogs, and having great fellowship around this great sport of hunting, and i felt when he died, i had to continue this legacy that he left, getting my Son, Nephews, etc involved, or at least let them listen to stories like i did, about hunting, fishing, etc.

I just wanted to get some sort of idea of where we are heading... Good or bad.

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:32 pm

Im not old enough to know about the "good ol days" but its an interesting question. For me, a couple things come to mind actually. For one, what I consider a "good dog" is vastly different today than was a younger man, and it changes the more I learn. Second, its pretty surprising how many hunters dont either use dogs at all, or have really no exposure to a "good dog". And Im not bashing them, at all, in any way. Many just have never had a good one or had the time/ability to make theirs a good one. I also think the chances for someone to end up with a well bred dog, with a lot of potential is a lot better now than it was years ago, provided they do a little homework and put effort into the choice.

It would be interesting to know the overall sports popularity rise/fall. I would have to assume its growing. If its not growing, its better promoted, which, in the internet world we live in, is not surprising.

Redfishkilla · Post by **Redfishkilla** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:45 pm

Long trips to hunting places will be harder to afford as gas prices continue to rise over the next 10-15 years. This will not only hurt hunting but trialing as well.

Also, young people, nowadays, would rather live in big cities for the night life and I feel like fewer and fewer people are getting into the lifestyle. When I attend NSTRA trials there is rarely anyone under the age of 50 competing. When young people are old enough and have enough dough to buy a dog, they'll blow it on fake tans, hair gel, nice cars, earrings, tatoos, beer, and I pads, not bird dogs. JMO.

Lastly, I do think it takes lots of wild birds to make a good bird dog.

jlowery · Post by **jlowery** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:00 pm

Redfishkilla wrote:Long trips to hunting places will be harder to afford as gas prices continue to rise over the next 10-15 years. This will not only hurt hunting but trialing as well.

Also, young people, nowadays, would rather live in big cities for the night life and I feel like fewer and fewer people are getting into the lifestyle. When I attend NSTRA trials there is rarely anyone under the age of 50 competing. When young people are old enough and have enough dough to buy a dog, they'll blow it on fake tans, hair gel, nice cars, earrings, tatoos, beer, and I pads, not bird dogs. JMO.

Yes, and this is a very sad direction. When running competitions, hunting, and spending time with some dogs, could teach our youth a lot about life... And getting involved in different clubs, where veterans of the game can teach you a thing or two....

GWPtyler · Post by **GWPtyler** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:38 pm

I'm 27 and love all this dog stuff. I suppose that makes me a yungin'. Does that mean there's still hope for the next generation?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:51 pm

www.quailforever.org

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:33 pm

I bet it was probably better when there were actual wild birds to hunt LOL. We need Ken's opinion on this.... LOL Ken

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:51 pm

I agree that it was a lot better when there were plenty of wild birds to hunt.....Man, how I miss those days!!! I also agree that it is easier to get a good dog today than it was years ago, but I believe when you had a good one, they were as good as the ones today. I agree too that it does not necessarily take a lot of wild birds to make a good bird dog. I guess I am just in an agreeing mood.

Charlie

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:10 pm

I dont get the "when there was a lot of wild birds". I hunt ruffies and pheasants, a very huntable population of both, certainly not so few it will effect how "good" my birddog will get?? Anyways.

As far as the younger crowd not getting into the sport, IMO, its not a very inviting sport at times, IMO. A lot of "pros" look down their noses at newcomers vs try encourage/help them along. Ive seen that, a lot. And lumping all the young kids into hair gel, beer, i pads, and such, Im sure I could guess how that person would view a "punk" trying the sport out, would try help them out Im sure. :roll:

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:17 pm

bailey dog 2007 wrote:I dont get the "when there was a lot of wild birds". I hunt ruffies and pheasants, a very huntable population of both, certainly not so few it will effect how "good" my bird dog will get?? Anyways.

As far as the younger crowd not getting into the sport, IMO, its not a very inviting sport at times, IMO. A lot of "pros" look down their noses at newcomers vs try encourage/help them along. Ive seen that, a lot.

bailey dog, I am only talking about where I live and I pretty much have to travel to get into many wild birds. We have a few but it is tough and that is if you can even find property to hunt on. Years ago, we could hunt from morning till dusk and be into birds most of the day. Unfortunately, those days are gone for good around here.

Charlie

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:20 pm

birddogger wrote:
bailey dog 2007 wrote:I dont get the "when there was a lot of wild birds". I hunt ruffies and pheasants, a very huntable population of both, certainly not so few it will effect how "good" my bird dog will get?? Anyways.

As far as the younger crowd not getting into the sport, IMO, its not a very inviting sport at times, IMO. A lot of "pros" look down their noses at newcomers vs try encourage/help them along. Ive seen that, a lot.
bailey dog, I am only talking about where I live and I pretty much have to travel to get into many wild birds. We have a few but it is tough and that is if you can even find property to hunt on. Years ago, we could hunt from morning till dusk and be into birds most of the day. Unfortunately, those days are gone for good around here.

Charlie

Ah, that sucks. If I lived there, Id have to move I think, lol. I hunt ruffies 3-5 times a week, depending on weather/work. There are certainly up and down years, but can always find enough birds. When my working days are over, I think SD is where Ill retire to.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:31 pm

birddogger wrote:I agree that it was a lot better when there were plenty of wild birds to hunt.....Man, how I miss those days!!! I also agree that it is easier to get a good dog today than it was years ago, but I believe when you had a good one, they were as good as the ones today. I agree too that it does not necessarily take a lot of wild birds to make a good bird dog. I guess I am just in an agreeing mood.

Charlie

Feeling agreeable buddy

Can we get a heck ya'zz on some head crank

Ahhh, worth a shot anyway

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:35 pm

Feeling agreeable buddy Can we get a heck ya'zz on some head crank

No way, but you knew that.

Charlie

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:40 pm

baileydog2007 wrote:I dont get the "when there was a lot of wild birds". I hunt ruffies and pheasants, a very huntable population of both, certainly not so few it will effect how "good" my birddog will get?? Anyways.

As far as the younger crowd not getting into the sport, IMO, its not a very inviting sport at times, IMO. A lot of "pros" look down their noses at newcomers vs try encourage/help them along. Ive seen that, a lot. And lumping all the young kids into hair gel, beer, i pads, and such, Im sure I could guess how that person would view a "punk" trying the sport out, would try help them out Im sure. :roll:

Well, take Utah for instance. Back when farmer's used water drainage ditches, we here had an abundance of wild pheasants. Now we are highly unlikely to see a wild pheasant. Water resources have dwindled away.

jarbo03 · Post by **jarbo03** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:46 pm

I'm 34 and have seen drastic changes in my years. Luckily we still have a lot of wild birds in the state, but my drive has went from 2 hours to 4-5 hours. There does seem to be younger kids getting into hunting around here, unfortunately it seems like they are wanting to kill birds without putting in the work. It also seems that the rudest people I meet driving by the hunting fields are older hunters.

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:49 pm

I think bird dogs are better trained now than they were in the past(e collars, etc), but they don't have the access to the land and wild birds(pheasants) that the old time dogs did, so I think the old time dogs were better handling wild birds(pheasant)

The number of resident upland lic in Nebraska are going down--it is getting harder and harder for the city people to get on land to hunt. You are going to see more and more CRP land get put back into crops. The farmers get approx $150 an acre for land in CRP. Corn is $7 a bushel and they can get 100 to 200 bushel an acre--that figures out to $700-$1400(-minus expenses) an acre they can get to have their land in corn. You can't blame them for wanting to make money. If the US Congress tries to balance the budget, you are going to see big budget cuts and I think the CRP program is one that will get cut. I think you are going to see alot of land in SD, NE, ND, IA back into crops not producing pheasants. I hate to see it but I think it is coming.

vols fan · Post by **vols fan** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:07 pm

deseeker, you are probably right. Where i hunt in Neb we have lost all but 1/4 section of crp back to crops.I hunt about a 15 sq. mile area and every year we loose more crp. Last year they tore out 5 sections and put oivets on them . We saw about 30 % of birds than what we usually see.Between that and the 5x8 mile of hail damage bird hunting will be pretty much none existing now.SAD

GWPtyler · Post by **GWPtyler** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:21 am

baileydog2007 wrote:Ah, that sucks. If I lived there, Id have to move I think, lol. I hunt ruffies 3-5 times a week, depending on weather/work. There are certainly up and down years, but can always find enough birds. When my working days are over, I think SD is where Ill retire to.

That's funny. When I retire I'd like to move up to your neck of the woods. Trade ya some pheasants for ruffs, what'ya say?

deseeker wrote:I think bird dogs are better trained now than they were in the past(e collars, etc), but they don't have the access to the land and wild birds(pheasants) that the old time dogs did, so I think the old time dogs were better handling wild birds(pheasant)

The number of resident upland lic in Nebraska are going down--it is getting harder and harder for the city people to get on land to hunt. You are going to see more and more CRP land get put back into crops. The farmers get approx $150 an acre for land in CRP. Corn is $7 a bushel and they can get 100 to 200 bushel an acre--that figures out to $700-$1400(-minus expenses) an acre they can get to have their land in corn. You can't blame them for wanting to make money. If the US Congress tries to balance the budget, you are going to see big budget cuts and I think the CRP program is one that will get cut. I think you are going to see alot of land in SD, NE, ND, IA back into crops not producing pheasants. I hate to see it but I think it is coming.

Already happening in Nodak. Thousands and thousands of fallow and CRP acreage is getting plowed under every day. Then the spring crowing counts come out and they wonder why they dropped 30 percent...ha!

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:35 am

^Ruffies are definately better in the pan, but I enjoy pheasant hunting and the dog work that pheasant hunting provides a little more than Ruffies. BUT, I do get to hunt ruffies, a lot, so maybe thats why I so look forward to my pheasant trips every fall.

Redfishkilla · Post by **Redfishkilla** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:39 am

"And lumping all the young kids into hair gel, beer, i pads, and such, I’m sure I could guess how that person would view a "punk" trying the sport out,"

How might I view them? A breath of fresh air. Of course not all kids fit the I pad description, I was speaking in general for the sake of conversation.

As a side note, I've helped three different friends find bird dogs and begin the journey.

But the vastly majority of people I know and grew up with couldn't care less about dogs and hunting.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:49 pm

Let's start by saying you don't see many young people because you go to NSTRA trials where people run half broke dogs and don't have horses to ride while watching a dog run out and stretch his/her legs at 300-1000 Yds. Most NSTRA events are for older people who can't walk to far.... heck they even let people ride ATVs.

If you get a kick out of seeing younger people run then come on out to a Field Trial where your dog can earn titles that are put on its real pedigree.... and yea a whole lot of money gets spent on my dog and brad is spending quite a bit also. Haven't seen an ipad yet. But we all have smart phones with video cameras.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:07 pm

Wow, ignorance and bravado running wild hand in hand

Forum has reached a new high :roll:

Redfishkilla · Post by **Redfishkilla** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:09 pm

" titles that are put on its real pedigree.... "

We all get it ultra, the way you trial is better than the way other's trial.....shhheeessshhhh

I hunt wild birds on foot, i don't need or want a dog 1000 yards out. That's silly in my mind, glad you think it's better.

jlowery · Post by **jlowery** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:21 pm

I don't understand how this Crap gets to this point everytime..... GEEEEEZ Really....... Its no wonder we have some great talent that stands in the dark and never gives anyone any advice b/c of this is where it ends up at. And ya think maybe we may be declining b/c of it also.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:29 pm

Nope its pretty funny. Any light comment which includes facts and people get all bent out of shape because of the context. It gets to this point because the thread was dead and someone tried to revive it by adding how younger people don't get involved because they are to into themselves . When they are actually in it but a different venue.

The only reason I don't do NSTRA is because the old people where I'm at that are involved keep running it four hours away from my house. And why? Because they are old and set into a routine just like they start and end every day. The president of the club is a great guy and have spent some time with a few other members who are great people but if you have to cancel every event due to weather and do not want to change locations to a better location with better weather don't expect new people to join.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:45 pm

by ultracarry

The only reason I don't do NSTRA is because the old people where I'm at that are involved keep running it four hours away from my house. And why? Because they are old and set into a routine just like they start and end every day. The president of the club is a great guy and have spent some time with a few other members who are great people but if you have to cancel every event due to weather and do not want to change locations to a better location with better weather don't expect new people to join.

by Redfishkilla

When young people are old enough and have enough dough to buy a dog, they'll blow it on fake tans, hair gel, nice cars, earrings, tatoos, beer, and I pads, not bird dogs. JMO.

Gentlemen, Gentlemen,...Gentlemen,

Is the pen not mightier than the sword? I don't think you mean to be this personal...I think you should get together and have a Fresca.

So anyway Jlowery, isn't it interesting the more things change the more they stay the same? I believe that training techniques, tools and access to information is infinetely better, and in a large scale lifestyles for hunting infinetely more challenging. There are places with great bird populations but in the west they are increasingly more remote. Running a dog requires that you get to the deset or a preserve as the tracts of farm land are more difficult to access. I would speculate waterfowlers fare better. Trials, and tests give people access, mentorship and cammeraderie as you can see by the gentle diatribe here between peers... I have no time for the bitter naysayer regardless of age ... and I think us younger folks, 46 and below are better off starting with a litlle humilty and giving a bit more respect than we demand. There...now the sport is fixed.

jlowery · Post by **jlowery** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:50 pm

[quote="
I think us younger folks, 46 and below are better off starting with a litlle humilty and giving a bit more respect than we demand. There...now the sport is fixed.[/quote]
HA!!! I can tell you about some humility.... But i have come so far b/c of it.

Redfishkilla · Post by **Redfishkilla** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:54 pm

Chukar, I'm sorry. I was just venting a little mainly because I can't get peers to see how fun this stuff can be. Please don't lump me with Ultra, I'll try and be more polite next time. Instead of the description of young people I used there, I'll say something like young city folks or something like that.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:57 pm

you didnt offend me...and if Ultra doesn't straighten up I intend to confiscate that dog, its the least I can do

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:59 pm

JL, you just come on up and play with us. I'll even let you ride my horse if you want to catch a few braces.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:18 pm

Chukar I like how you think. Makes me think actually.

I never get offended on a public forum and am on here for fun.

FYI here is one experience I had at a trial as a "young man" chukar might know the lady so no names.

I spent roughly 200.00 to enter my dog in puppy, Derby, open gun dog, and Amature gun dog. When I arrived at the trial it was early in the morning and my fees had been paid so I met with my trainer and went to the main tent to grab some coffee and a snack. When I started to eat an elderly lady walked up behind me and told my trainer (loud enough that I could hear) "why is he in here, we don't have anymore food" in a snappy manor. Then the lady asked what dog I was running... to which she replied " so he is the problem I have been dealing with " and went to explain how entering my dog caused he so much grief ... and I was basically wasting my time entering my dog at the trial.

If your wondering why younger people don't get involved this lady might be the poster child. And at field trials and other events I am nothing but respectful and always have a good attitude (opposite as I am on this forum) . My posts are usually sarcastic and have a little bit of attitude attached which is how I write so I apologize.

Chukar as for the dog I will not let her go to a home where britts have the majority. I know you are a nice guy and all but I do not trust those dogs of yours and believe they would discriminate against the finer breed lol.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:21 pm

I would guess that birddogs are more likely today to benefit from the advantages accompanying the advances in nuitrition, veterinarian care and, dog training equipment and methods....making better birddogs, of a sort.

I would guess that greater free time for dog owners and paying non-dog owning hunters alike has helped develop a wealth of birddogs serving both groups better than was present in the past....on a volume basis....not on a backyard level.

I know the ruffed grouse in the Appalachians have declined in a curve steeper than a horse's face and that has meant far fewer kennels in backyards and far fewer opportunities for dogs to learn, as no training bird mimics a wild ruffed grouse, therefore making birddogs in some areas better in the past than the present.....generally speaking.
Even in the heady days in the areas with abnormal and artificially high populations of the ruffed grouse, due to turn-of-the-century logging, the advantage of bird contacts played to continually strengthen the dog rather than deliver a dog that could ...just get by.

However, attach any set of conditions on a per-dog basis rather than general and a good dog is still, and always will be, a good dog regardless of decade.

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:22 pm

Exactly why I have been a bit scared to enter trials. I have had some bad experiences with some people here in Utah (won't name names) but I'm starting regardless, they can kiss my arss LOL

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:31 pm

I spent roughly 200.00 to enter my dog in puppy, Derby, open gun dog, and Amature gun dog. When I arrived at the trial it was early in the morning and my fees had been paid so I met with my trainer and went to the main tent to grab some coffee and a snack. When I started to eat an elderly lady walked up behind me and told my trainer (loud enough that I could hear) "why is he in here, we don't have anymore food" in a snappy manor. Then the lady asked what dog I was running... to which she replied " so he is the problem I have been dealing with " and went to explain how entering my dog caused he so much grief ... and I was basically wasting my time entering my dog at the trial.

..yeah no need to name names and there is no defending this behavior
and isn't it nice that your fine hound did the talking for you.

I would have told her to get in that motor home and make some biscuits and gravy...

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:34 pm

It was kinda nice... too bad she didn't make a public apology like the other secretary. I think they might be a little nicer next year. But I would be happy to volunteer my time next year if she doesn't show up.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:52 pm

Ahumphers91a wrote:I bet it was probably better when there were actual wild birds to hunt LOL. We need Ken's opinion on this.... LOL Ken

As far a dogs go I've hunted with some I thought were unbelieveable and Now I don't think they were that great. The one factor was in the 70's here in Iowa it didn't take a great dog to find birds. Now it's a whole different game. Hunting quail in Calif. in the late 50's and 60's you didn't need a dog. Wish I had one. At eleven years of age I hunted with a friend of my dads who had a Wiem from Germany. Only knew German commands and the owner didn't know German. That was an experience. I killed more birds without the dog and I did with. I really think the training we have today and knowlege is what makes the big factor in the number of birds we harvest. I was born a hunter and fisherman, now I'm a hunter, fisherman and an avid trialer. I hear and read all the comments how dogs were bred and they could have been Champions. That's a farse. Try the new game that's old as dirt and be humble when you have your tail handed to you. Of course if you live in SD, or ND or have untold private land to hunt maybe you don't need a really good dog to have fun. Me I want the best.

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:01 pm

kensfishing wrote:
Ahumphers91a wrote:I bet it was probably better when there were actual wild birds to hunt LOL. We need Ken's opinion on this.... LOL Ken
As far a dogs go I've hunted with some I thought were unbelieveable and Now I don't think they were that great. The one factor was in the 70's here in Iowa it didn't take a great dog to find birds. Now it's a whole different game. Hunting quail in Calif. in the late 50's and 60's you didn't need a dog. Wish I had one. At eleven years of age I hunted with a friend of my dads who had a Wiem from Germany. Only knew German commands and the owner didn't know German. That was an experience. I killed more birds without the dog and I did with. I really think the training we have today and knowlege is what makes the big factor in the number of birds we harvest. I was born a hunter and fisherman, now I'm a hunter, fisherman and an avid trialer. I hear and read all the comments how dogs were bred and they could have been Champions. That's a farse. Try the new game that's old as dirt and be humble when you have your tail handed to you. Of course if you live in SD, or ND or have untold private land to hunt maybe you don't need a really good dog to have fun. Me I want the best.

Well said, I remember when we had no dog's it didn't really matter because the abundance of birds then, and when we did they were lab's. After being spoiled by GSP's I will never own another Lab. Nothing against lab's but GSP's do it all.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:35 pm

ultracarry wrote:Chukar I like how you think. Makes me think actually.

I never get offended on a public forum and am on here for fun.

FYI here is one experience I had at a trial as a "young man" chukar might know the lady so no names.

I spent roughly 200.00 to enter my dog in puppy, Derby, open gun dog, and Amature gun dog. When I arrived at the trial it was early in the morning and my fees had been paid so I met with my trainer and went to the main tent to grab some coffee and a snack. When I started to eat an elderly lady walked up behind me and told my trainer (loud enough that I could hear) "why is he in here, we don't have anymore food" in a snappy manor. Then the lady asked what dog I was running... to which she replied " so he is the problem I have been dealing with " and went to explain how entering my dog caused he so much grief ... and I was basically wasting my time entering my dog at the trial.

If your wondering why younger people don't get involved this lady might be the poster child. And at field trials and other events I am nothing but respectful and always have a good attitude (opposite as I am on this forum) . My posts are usually sarcastic and have a little bit of attitude attached which is how I write so I apologize.

Chukar as for the dog I will not let her go to a home where britts have the majority. I know you are a nice guy and all but I do not trust those dogs of yours and believe they would discriminate against the finer breed lol.

Maybe you need to get out more, travel a little and meet some real people that put on trials. My first trip to Colo. I couldn't believe how many people came up and said hi and welcome. There's alot more to trials than the desert in Calif.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:09 pm

ultracarry wrote:Nope its pretty funny. Any light comment which includes facts and people get all bent out of shape because of the context. It gets to this point because the thread was dead and someone tried to revive it by adding how younger people don't get involved because they are to into themselves . When they are actually in it but a different venue.

The only reason I don't do NSTRA is because the old people where I'm at that are involved keep running it four hours away from my house. And why? Because they are old and set into a routine just like they start and end every day. The president of the club is a great guy and have spent some time with a few other members who are great people but if you have to cancel every event due to weather and do not want to change locations to a better location with better weather don't expect new people to join.

And they shouldn't have a driver's license either.

Charlie

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:38 pm

kensfishing wrote:
Ahumphers91a wrote:I bet it was probably better when there were actual wild birds to hunt LOL. We need Ken's opinion on this.... LOL Ken
As far a dogs go I've hunted with some I thought were unbelieveable and Now I don't think they were that great. The one factor was in the 70's here in Iowa it didn't take a great dog to find birds. Now it's a whole different game. Hunting quail in Calif. in the late 50's and 60's you didn't need a dog. Wish I had one. At eleven years of age I hunted with a friend of my dads who had a Wiem from Germany. Only knew German commands and the owner didn't know German. That was an experience. I killed more birds without the dog and I did with. I really think the training we have today and knowlege is what makes the big factor in the number of birds we harvest. I was born a hunter and fisherman, now I'm a hunter, fisherman and an avid trialer. I hear and read all the comments how dogs were bred and they could have been Champions. That's a farse. Try the new game that's old as dirt and be humble when you have your tail handed to you. Of course if you live in SD, or ND or have untold private land to hunt maybe you don't need a really good dog to have fun. Me I want the best.

So, if someone lives/hunts in ND/SD, they dont have good dogs cuz there are a lot of birds??? Since you dont live/hunt there, and you find some birds and trial, you have the best. Alrighty then. Makes sense.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:03 pm

baileydog2007 wrote:
kensfishing wrote:
Ahumphers91a wrote:I bet it was probably better when there were actual wild birds to hunt LOL. We need Ken's opinion on this.... LOL Ken
As far a dogs go I've hunted with some I thought were unbelieveable and Now I don't think they were that great. The one factor was in the 70's here in Iowa it didn't take a great dog to find birds. Now it's a whole different game. Hunting quail in Calif. in the late 50's and 60's you didn't need a dog. Wish I had one. At eleven years of age I hunted with a friend of my dads who had a Wiem from Germany. Only knew German commands and the owner didn't know German. That was an experience. I killed more birds without the dog and I did with. I really think the training we have today and knowlege is what makes the big factor in the number of birds we harvest. I was born a hunter and fisherman, now I'm a hunter, fisherman and an avid trialer. I hear and read all the comments how dogs were bred and they could have been Champions. That's a farse. Try the new game that's old as dirt and be humble when you have your tail handed to you. Of course if you live in SD, or ND or have untold private land to hunt maybe you don't need a really good dog to have fun. Me I want the best.

So, if someone lives/hunts in ND/SD, they dont have good dogs cuz there are a lot of birds??? Since you dont live/hunt there, and you find some birds and trial, you have the best. Alrighty then. Makes sense.

When the number of birds out number the number of hunters by the who knows what percentage, your odds of finding birds with a good dog go up big time. Like I said way back when the bird population in certain areas was unbelievable it didn't take a really good dog to find birds. Just what I've seen in the past years. Not saying I have the best. Just make do with whats available.

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:20 pm

^True. Im just saying that just cuz some guys hunt where there a lot of birds, doesnt mean their dogs arent great dogs. Anyways, I misunderstood your post I guess. And, btw, Im certainly not saying I have/had the best dog. Just that I have witnessed some pretty dam good dogs that happen to hunt in ND/SD.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:25 pm

Chukar12 wrote: I would have told her to get in that motor home and make some biscuits and gravy...

Holy "bleep" that is funny I nearly spit my drink out... Chukar you seriously crack me up... we have to get together and hunt,

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:44 pm

baileydog2007 wrote:^True. Im just saying that just cuz some guys hunt where there a lot of birds, doesnt mean their dogs arent great dogs. Anyways, I misunderstood your post I guess. And, btw, Im certainly not saying I have/had the best dog. Just that I have witnessed some pretty dam good dogs that happen to hunt in ND/SD.

See that's the difference. Being a hunter first and foremost and a trialer second, I've had the chances to see some of the best dogs across the country. Now that is. What's to say they weren't as good or better back then, just being able to see the differences in the past 50 years. But what is a persons truly great dog may not be in another's eyes and so forth.

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:22 pm

kensfishing wrote:
baileydog2007 wrote:^True. Im just saying that just cuz some guys hunt where there a lot of birds, doesnt mean their dogs arent great dogs. Anyways, I misunderstood your post I guess. And, btw, Im certainly not saying I have/had the best dog. Just that I have witnessed some pretty dam good dogs that happen to hunt in ND/SD.
See that's the difference. Being a hunter first and foremost and a trialer second, I've had the chances to see some of the best dogs across the country. Now that is. What's to say they weren't as good or better back then, just being able to see the differences in the past 50 years. But what is a persons truly great dog may not be in another's eyes and so forth.

True. Any dog that runs out 1000yds+, is not a dog for me. Not saying they are not good dogs or dont have their place, but if I were to see that either in a trial or in the field, I would not be impressed, AT ALL. Not to say that dog didnt take some training and cant find birds, but not my cup of tea. Never will be. And thats fine.

I went to a trial near Roger MN in late May, trying to learn a bit. To say the folks there were unfriendly to a new comer would be an under statement. I went a lone, with no dog, just to watch. Its interesting, competitive, and a lot "the good ol boys club" IMO. I can strike up a conversation with any one. Not there for the most part. So I watched for a part of a day and went home. It is definately a sport one will have to learn on his own, as no one is gonna offer "bleep".

Did see some really cool dogs and learned a few things. But if anyone is seriously confused as to why not a lot of new people enter, it should not be a surprise.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:31 pm

Kensfishing :

I have gone to many trials in California and it seems she is pretty much the bad seed. I would love to go out of state and trial and might make a flight or two so I can see/run my dog when she goes to the mid west . But to travel a lot won't happen while I'm working weekend graveyard shift.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:40 pm

baileydog2007 wrote: True. Any dog that runs out 1000yds+, is not a dog for me. Not saying they are not good dogs or dont have their place, but if I were to see that either in a trial or in the field, I would not be impressed, AT ALL. Not to say that dog didnt take some training and cant find birds, but not my cup of tea. Never will be. And thats fine.

Most places I hunt a dog never gets the opportunity to get out that far even if they want too, fields are too small and they are generally into birds before that.

I do have a couple of places where my avatar dog was able to go HUUUUUUUGGGEEEE when he was a youngster, was long walk to find the pheasants had run off, but nice to see him stretch out.

baileydog2007 wrote: I went to a trial near Roger MN in late May, trying to learn a bit. To say the folks there were unfriendly to a new comer would be an under statement. I went a lone, with no dog, just to watch. Its interesting, competitive, and a lot "the good ol boys club" IMO. I can strike up a conversation with any one. Not there for the most part. So I watched for a part of a day and went home. It is definately a sport one will have to learn on his own, as no one is gonna offer "bleep".

I think you might want to try a different club, this would be exactly the opposite of most trials I have been to. I do not think trials are the end all... that's hunting wild birds for me, but I have yet to go to a trial where most folks weren't very friendly. Even at the GSPCA national championship.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:00 pm

I went to a trial near Roger MN in late May, trying to learn a bit. To say the folks there were unfriendly to a new comer would be an under statement. I went a lone, with no dog, just to watch. Its interesting, competitive, and a lot "the good ol boys club" IMO. I can strike up a conversation with any one. Not there for the most part. So I watched for a part of a day and went home. It is definately a sport one will have to learn on his own, as no one is gonna offer "bleep".

Baileydog, I went to a Springer trial in April in Glenco MN (i wrote about it before) the people their bent over backwords trying to help me. Someone offered me a hunting vest the minute I pulled up, and everyone told me what was happening. On a side note, you mentioned Lac Qui Parle on another post, thats where I'm located, I was on the lake today.

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:01 am

nikegundog wrote:
I went to a trial near Roger MN in late May, trying to learn a bit. To say the folks there were unfriendly to a new comer would be an under statement. I went a lone, with no dog, just to watch. Its interesting, competitive, and a lot "the good ol boys club" IMO. I can strike up a conversation with any one. Not there for the most part. So I watched for a part of a day and went home. It is definately a sport one will have to learn on his own, as no one is gonna offer "bleep".
Baileydog, I went to a Springer trial in April in Glenco MN (i wrote about it before) the people their bent over backwords trying to help me. Someone offered me a hunting vest the minute I pulled up, and everyone told me what was happening. On a side note, you mentioned Lac Qui Parle on another post, thats where I'm located, I was on the lake today.

Didnt know that was a fishing lake?? We hunt pheasants down there one weekend a season. We did "ok" down there last year, not the best year we had there, not the worst.

I looked at that trial when looking for one to go to, but want to try find one that wasnt breed specific, for a new guy like me, not easy to do. But I dont know where to look to find trials and dates so I lived with what I went to.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:02 am

Baileydog, it use to be one of the best walleye lakes in the state, then the state tried to manage it and lets just say that didn't go so well. Well here is the link to find some other trials, I wouldn't attend a spaniel trial unless you have one. http://www.akc.org/events/search/index. ... ixed_tab=7
you click on the type that you are interested in, then click on the state or states, then hit search at the bottom. Sorry for getting off topic.