Junior Hunter

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:40 pm

So on the junior hunter level the dog has to score higher than an overall of 7 in 4 separate events? I'm just wondering if I was reading that correctly.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:42 pm

I wouldn't waste your time on a JH title. It's not worth the time, effort or money to me. Just my thoughts.

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:43 pm

What age can you enter the dog into a regular field trial then? That's kinda what I was thinking.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:49 pm

kensfishing wrote:I wouldn't waste your time on a JH title. It's not worth the time, effort or money to me. Just my thoughts.

I like the JH title if people will do it right and not train for it. It is a natural ability test or was supposed to be and that is what I want to see in any dog. SH is ok as it shows mtrainability and I have litlle interest in MH.

Ezzy

LincolnAlexander · Post by **LincolnAlexander** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:54 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
kensfishing wrote:I wouldn't waste your time on a JH title. It's not worth the time, effort or money to me. Just my thoughts.
I like the JH title if people will do it right and not train for it. It is a natural ability test or was supposed to be and that is what I want to see in any dog. SH is ok as it shows mtrainability and I have litlle interest in MH.

Ezzy

I found it to be good practice for me when I did it as a new handler.

Will · Post by **Will** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:01 pm

Ahumphers91a wrote:So on the junior hunter level the dog has to score higher than an overall of 7 in 4 separate events? I'm just wondering if I was reading that correctly.

The following is taken from the AKC booklet, "Regulations for AKC Hunting Tests for Pointing Breeds Including Guidelines for Pointing Breed Hunting Tests":

For a Junior Hunter title, a dog must receive 4 qualifying scores. A Junior dog is scored on hunting, bird finding ability, pointing and trainability.

Scoring on each element is from 0 to 10, and to qualify a dog must achieve and average score of 7 for the required elements. Any score of less than five on any element is a non-qualifying score, even if the average score is seven or more. If the judges disagree on a score in a given element they may average their scores to arrive at the score for that element.

It's fun..a good way to start learning the "game" if you want to pursue SH or MH on your own. The participants and judges are typically very helpful and nice at this level...offering constructive criticism and advice (good or bad).

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:13 pm

JH was fun for me and my dogs. I've taken a few fosters through a few tests and had a good time too. I think JH is fun and SH is not worth much. It's just a "middle of the road" test. Either you're training for steady to wing and shot or you're not. If you are - then you want to skip SH totally and just go on to MH. If you're o.k. with your dog breaking, then I guess SH is o.k. I just think it's sending the wrong message to the dog, so we skipped it totally. Just JH to MH.

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:22 pm

It would be a fun experience, I just had it confused as I thought the JH test was like the Puppy field trial stake's

MO_GSP · Post by **MO_GSP** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:24 pm

what are the scoring requirements for a SH or MH? just curious

Byrdgirl · Post by **Byrdgirl** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:35 pm

For what it is worth I don't feel the JH is a waste of time. A professional handler or someone with years of experience may disagree but as new handlers I thought it was a great experience for us. It gave us additional opportunities to run our dog with lots of people in the field as well as another dog. We felt that it helped us as handlers get over some of our nerves for when we ran our GSP in the NAVHDA NA test and the AKC SH. For a newbie to hunt tests it was well worth the time and money spent. Not to mention the feedback we received from judges who were in the field with us was invaluable. But for someone who has been on the scene for sometime I can understand why they would feel that running it is not a necessity.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:38 pm

I like it when people list the JH title when trying to sell pups, funny thing is it probably works for some.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:45 pm

nikegundog wrote:I like it when people list the JH title when trying to sell pups, funny thing is it probably works for some.

I know, it blows my mind.

Will · Post by **Will** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:59 pm

MO_GSP wrote:what are the scoring requirements for a SH or MH? just curious

The following is taken from the AKC booklet, "Regulations for AKC Hunting Tests for Pointing Breeds Including Guidelines for Pointing Breed Hunting Tests" which is available from the AKC for $1.00. A lot of information was left out as it was deemed unnecessary for purposes of giving the reader the gist of a Hunt Test. It is highly recommended that anyone seriously interested in the topic should get the AKC booklet. Also, the AKC sells a video tape called "Pointers In The Field" which gives the viewer a good insight to the basic rules and conduct of the Pointer Hunt Test as well as some visual examples of a number of the terms used.

Hunt tests are conducted with the dogs running in braces of two dogs at a time. If a bracemate is absent then the lone dog is dropped down the brace order and matched with the dog in the last brace, if it has no bracemate, or it will run in a final brace with a bracemate chosen from the dogs previously run in the same level test. As in field trials, bitches in season shall not be eligible for entry in any Hunting Test and shall not be allowed on the hunt test grounds.

Unlike Field Trials all handling is done on foot and only the judges and the marshall may ride horses. Gallery wagons are prohibited. Handlers carry and may fire blank pistols only on the flush of a bird. In Senior and Master tests, there will be two Official Guns who are responsible for any live shooting. The Official Guns must not interfere or assist in any manner the handler of the dogs. In the Master test the handler must shoulder and empty shotgun with both hands and follow the flight of the bird as if he or she were planning to shoot the bird.

Anyone in good standing with The American Kennel Club may be approved to judge a Hunting Test subject to the qualification requirements in force at the time. Basically these are people with experience with pointing dogs in the field and familiar with how pointing dogs should perform in the field. A person that is a judge may not handle a dog in the same test level they are judging but may handle a dog in another level. Judging is done by a pair of judges.

Scoring in a hunt test is based upon four criteria for Junior Hunter and six criteria for Senior and Master Hunter. The categories in Junior are Hunting, Bird Finding Ability, Pointing, Trainability, and in Senior and Master, Retrieving and Honoring are added. These criteria are loosely defined as follows:

Hunting: Dogs must demonstrate desire, boldness, independence, speed and a useful pattern of running. Dogs must hunt and not merely be out for a run in the field. They must show independence by leaving their handlers side to explore the territory. Junior dogs are scored more leniently than Seniors and Masters.
Bird Finding Ability: The dog must demonstrate the ability to find game. Translated, find a bird or don't pass. The number of finds is not as important as the quality of the finds. Scenting conditions, terrain and cover should be considered in the scoring of this category. Note: the course should have sufficient birds (no less than two per brace and more are strongly recommended) to insure that a dog with good finding ability will locate them.
Pointing: scoring in this category should reflect the style (intensity and staunchness) of the dog and its ability to pinpoint birds, especially with difficult or confusing scent patterns. A dog with a low stance should not be scored lower than a dog with a high stance if it demonstrates staunchness and intensity, particularly in difficult pointing situations. A 12 o'clock tail is not necessary and indeed is not found in any AKC Pointing Breed standards. Flagging (considered a lack of staunchness) on game is generally a fault in older, more experienced dogs, but should not be reflected too severely in the Pointing score of a Junior dog. A flash point cannot quality in any of the three levels. A flash point is generally a point in which the dog stops only momentarily before chasing the bird.
Junior dogs must hold their point until the handler gets with normal gunshot range.
Senior dogs must point and remain in position until the bird is shot or the dog is released. The dog may reposition itself if it is attempting to pin the bird. The dog should not creep after or trail a bird that the handler is attempting to flush.
Master dogs must demonstrate steadiness to wing and shot on all birds and cannot receive a qualifying score if it breaks.
Trainability: A judged on its willingness to be handled, its obedience to commands and its gun response. In Junior, the dog must demonstrate "reasonable obedience" to commands and be willing to be handled. The Senior dog is scored with less tolerance than the Junior. The scoring of "obedience" and "willingness to handle" should reflect the level of response by the dog. The Senior dog must stop on a wild flushed bird and may be commanded to do so. The Master dog cannot be given a command to stop. Gun response is also evaluated under Trainability.
Retrieving: Not required of a Junior dog. A good retrieve is one characterized by directness to the bird, quick location, prompt pick up, brisk, direct return to the handler, with tender delivery. A Senior dog is not required to retrieve to hand. Generally one or two steps would be generally acceptable. A Master dog must retrieve absolutely to hand. The handler cannot assist the dog on the retrieve in either Senior or Master tests by moving toward the downed bird. Mouthing is a serious fault and any dog which renders a bird unfit for consumption cannot receive a qualifying score.
Honoring: Honoring is a requirement in Senior and Master. If a dog is given an opportunity to honor and refuses, it cannot receive a qualifying score. In Senior the handler may give the dog a command to honor but only after the dog acknowledges that its bracemate is on point. A dog that steals its bracemate's point cannot receive a qualifying score. A Master dog must honor on its own.

Scoring - Or What It Takes To Qualify

Scoring on each element is from 0 to 10, and to qualify a dog must achieve and average score of 7 for the required elements. Any score of less than five on any element is a non-qualifying score, even if the average score is seven or more. If the judges disagree on a score in a given element they may average their scores to arrive at the score for that element.

For a Junior Hunter title, a dog must receive 4 qualifying scores. A Junior dog is scored on hunting, bird finding ability, pointing and trainability.
For a Senior Hunter title, a dog must receive 5 qualifying scores or 4 qualifying scores if the dog holds a Junior Hunter title. Qualification is based on all six elements; hunting, bird finding ability, pointing, trainability, retrieving and honoring.
For a Master Hunter title, a dog must receive 6 qualifying scores or 5 qualifying scores if the dogs holds a Senior Hunter title. Qualification is based on all six elements; hunting, bird finding ability, pointing, trainability, retrieving and honoring. A Master Hunter should demonstrate the excellence of a truly finished hunting companion.

Onk · Post by **Onk** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:36 pm

nikegundog wrote:I like it when people list the JH title when trying to sell pups, funny thing is it probably works for some.

I don't know much about this, but if it is truely a measurement of raw ability then why not show it when selling a pup. At least it shows the pup has some raw skills. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, just my 2 cents! Remember some people are looking for a hunting partner not a grand champ field trialer!

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:28 pm

Onk wrote:
nikegundog wrote:I like it when people list the JH title when trying to sell pups, funny thing is it probably works for some.

I don't know much about this, but if it is truely a measurement of raw ability then why not show it when selling a pup. At least it shows the pup has some raw skills. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, just my 2 cents! Remember some people are looking for a hunting partner not a grand champ field trialer!

Sometimes it is just a validation that the breeder participates in events with companion hunting dogs. Some places require participation in order to own over a certain number of dogs or have intact dogs. Not everyone wants to spend hunting season chasing tests to get advanced titles. The JH can and is oversold, but I also think it is a legitimate effort on the part of an owner and should not be discredited.

Onk · Post by **Onk** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:57 pm

I plan on checking it out this fall, in fact I'm looking forward to trying it! I just want to test the dog and have others that may/should know more than me tell me what they see in my dog or see in what I could be doing differant!

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:51 pm

nikegundog wrote:I like it when people list the JH title when trying to sell pups, funny thing is it probably works for some.

I don't know much about this, but if it is truely a measurement of raw ability then why not show it when selling a pup. At least it shows the pup has some raw skills. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, just my 2 cents! Remember some people are looking for a hunting partner not a grand champ field trialer!

Onk, I have only had retrieves so I can't speak for pointer hunt tests. In retriever hunt tests they say its testing natural ability however it is an entry level test to get people involved with a fairly high success rate. Basicly if you are into hunt testing and the only level you can achieve is JH it brings up more questions than answers, it kind of like putting on your job application that you passed 8th grade.

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:04 pm

So does anyone have exp. With puppy stakes?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:04 pm

Onk wrote:I plan on checking it out this fall, in fact I'm looking forward to trying it! I just want to test the dog and have others that may/should know more than me tell me what they see in my dog or see in what I could be doing differant!

For sure you should go to the Joplin Brittany club tests. They have a FOOD TRAILER and sell dinner as a club fundraiser.

Just, please, don't sit next to Coveyrise64 if you spill while dining. He had a traumatic experience with another member here and can no longer dine at Cracker Barrel.

kylemac · Post by **kylemac** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:21 pm

Byrdgirl wrote:For what it is worth I don't feel the JH is a waste of time. A professional handler or someone with years of experience may disagree but as new handlers I thought it was a great experience for us. It gave us additional opportunities to run our dog with lots of people in the field as well as another dog. We felt that it helped us as handlers get over some of our nerves for when we ran our GSP in the NAVHDA NA test and the AKC SH. For a newbie to hunt tests it was well worth the time and money spent. Not to mention the feedback we received from judges who were in the field with us was invaluable. But for someone who has been on the scene for sometime I can understand why they would feel that running it is not a necessity.

I am scheduled to participate in a couple JH runs in a couple weeks with my young GSP -- and I am looking at it for the opportunities as well, moreso than any title - my Max is not intact anyways. With a little training under his collar, it will now be nice to see him work or try to work with the distractions of people, other dogs, possibly horses, and hopefully point a couple birds -- none of which I have the capacity to provide by any other convenient means until hunting season. I also look forward to the opportunity to learn a few things from experienced folks, check out a club, etc.. All of that is worth a heck-of-a lot more than the drive and fees, in my opinion - or at least I hope it will be. After all -- it is another excuse to run around in a field with my dog over a couple birds -- priceless!

Regards.

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:51 pm

Ahumphers91a wrote:So does anyone have exp. With puppy stakes?

A dog has to be six months old to run in puppy stakes. They can run puppy stake until they are 15 months old. Here is a link to the AKC rule book.

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RFTPNT.pdf

I think AF trial have the same age rules for puppies.

Onk · Post by **Onk** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:04 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
Onk wrote:I plan on checking it out this fall, in fact I'm looking forward to trying it! I just want to test the dog and have others that may/should know more than me tell me what they see in my dog or see in what I could be doing differant!
He had a traumatic experience with another member here and can no longer dine at Cracker Barrel.

Will for sure think about Joplin Casey, keep me posted on it if you think about it! I was in Joplin 4 days after the tornado help in Deuqesne and getting ready to head back down there in a couple of weeks. Like the people and the area down there!

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:42 pm

If you go to a hunt test for the first time just remember to have fun and not to call your dog or blow on a wisle . The best thing you can do is let the dog run. Plus you won't get marked down on training because your not giving the dog a command.... JH is just fun and gets you ready for higher tests.

LincolnAlexander · Post by **LincolnAlexander** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:10 am

ultracarry wrote:If you go to a hunt test for the first time just remember to have fun and not to call your dog or blow on a wisle . The best thing you can do is let the dog run.

+1

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:45 pm

I looked into AKC hunt tests before I started trialing, it didn't float my boat. Guess I was too competitive in other sports, hunting and fishing for a living. I didn't want just to pass a guideline, I wanted much more. Maybe I got more than I bargained for, but anyway here I am. Anyway have fun with whatever you wish to play, but to me a JH title means nothing in this world to me. I've raised enough pups to know if the breeding is right you can't go wrong. I've had pups that were five weeks old and could show better than some of the older dogs I've watched in hunt test. You had to see what passed to believe it.

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:18 pm

I hear ya there. I think i'm gonna start her in the puppy stakes and see where it takes me. I think it would be fun

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:32 pm

Ahumphers91a wrote:I hear ya there. I think i'm gonna start her in the puppy stakes and see where it takes me. I think it would be fun

Just so ya know--most AKC clubs do not put birds out in puppy stakes :roll: . It is just who's puppy runs the biggest wins. You have to run derby stakes if you want your dog into birds.

Onk · Post by **Onk** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:04 pm

kensfishing wrote:I looked into AKC hunt tests before I started trialing, it didn't float my boat. Guess I was too competitive in other sports, hunting and fishing for a living. I didn't want just to pass a guideline, I wanted much more. Maybe I got more than I bargained for, but anyway here I am. Anyway have fun with whatever you wish to play, but to me a JH title means nothing in this world to me. I've raised enough pups to know if the breeding is right you can't go wrong. I've had pups that were five weeks old and could show better than some of the older dogs I've watched in hunt test. You had to see what passed to believe it.

What in the Sam Arrogant heck are you talking about?! I have NO idea what your whole post is about....anyway here I am????More than I bargained for????? I would like to know where and who you trial against, because the trialers I talk to , work with, buy off of, and study from think hunt testing is a great way to get your feet wet in the sporting dog world! Most of them suggest you try it an learn from it and to be honest I think the opion of the trialers on this forum I have learned to trust is BANK! Good luck finding your fix Mr. I wanted much more, the rest of us hunt test pee-ons will just sit around in your shadow waiting for our frigging ray of sunshine! PS breeding can mean everything....or nothing at all! Just because you have the bloodline does not mean you have THE dog!

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:18 pm

Easy, he was just saying in his case he thought it was too easy and likes the challenge more of other trialing aspects such as all age comp. I did not know that about the birds, but it can't hurt to run it, then step up. Nothing like stfarting out at the bottom

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:25 pm

Hey kirby here is what I have to say grab your blank gun your dog enter the junior hunt test and have fun that is the key what you will learn and have fun with....don't worry what some one else may view as a waste of their time it isn't their time that is important to you

Onk · Post by **Onk** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:45 pm

Ahumphers91a wrote:Easy, he was just saying in his case he thought it was too easy and likes the challenge more of other trialing aspects such as all age comp. I did not know that about the birds, but it can't hurt to run it, then step up. Nothing like stfarting out at the bottom

I guess I read it differant! To each his own, right!

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:15 am

Onk wrote:
Ahumphers91a wrote:Easy, he was just saying in his case he thought it was too easy and likes the challenge more of other trialing aspects such as all age comp. I did not know that about the birds, but it can't hurt to run it, then step up. Nothing like stfarting out at the bottom
I guess I read it differant! To each his own, right!

For your information some clubs have birds in a puppy field. They were there for the other events ran before the puppies run. You need to lighten up. Who says run hunt test before anything else to get your feet wet? That's crap. Period. Like I said I watched many hunt test and don't care for them at all. Most judges wouldn't know what a dog is supposed to dog. Most don't hunt. That's the problem. I wanted more of a challenge with the dogs I raise and finished on both sides. Most of the people on this site have pros handle their dogs to attempt to finish a FC title, and most don't the knowledge or skill to finish an AFC. At least they try. You need to go and watch what I've seen pass for a MH, It's a joke. But the dog pasted the so called rules to get that title. Not let the crap fly.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:32 am

kensfishing wrote:
Onk wrote:
Ahumphers91a wrote:Easy, he was just saying in his case he thought it was too easy and likes the challenge more of other trialing aspects such as all age comp. I did not know that about the birds, but it can't hurt to run it, then step up. Nothing like stfarting out at the bottom
I guess I read it differant! To each his own, right!
For your information some clubs have birds in a puppy field. They were there for the other events ran before the puppies run. You need to lighten up. Who says run hunt test before anything else to get your feet wet? That's crap. Period. Like I said I watched many hunt test and don't care for them at all. Most judges wouldn't know what a dog is supposed to dog. Most don't hunt. That's the problem. I wanted more of a challenge with the dogs I raise and finished on both sides. Most of the people on this site have pros handle their dogs to attempt to finish a FC title, and most don't the knowledge or skill to finish an AFC. At least they try. You need to go and watch what I've seen pass for a MH, It's a joke. But the dog pasted the so called rules to get that title. Not let the crap fly.

Who cares what YOU think on this...Hunt test just like any venue that is man made for our entertainment are not perfeect

Hunt tests are a great place for someone who wants to get their feet wet to just break the ice let a person find out for themselves

My Lord it is attitudes like yours that do more to chase people off then help. These people are asking about Hunt tests and the rules if you can not give them some HELPFUL information to aid them in TRYING something with their dogs then Go find another post to piss on

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:57 am

The OP asked about JH not SH or MH, but JH. Which to me is worthless. Plain and simple. To the others how many puppy stakes have you watched. Not all of them don't have birds. Most are run on fields that have birds from other stakes, gundog and such. So you need to be informed. If a puppy stake is to be run on a field without birds so be it. I don't agree with that. There's been too many times judging I've put newbies dogs on top in puppy and derby and piss off some pros. Won't name who, but trust me I've done it. I'll also help new people run their dogs as a judge to get them confidence they need and make sure they have fun. Knine we have seen eye to eye for a long time. I've known you for awhile so calm down and enjoy life a little.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:11 am

Didn't get the memo on "netiquette" for judges? Perhaps the AKC could send it direct to you.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:18 am

I try to help some of the new people running their dogs. You can't believe the one's that won't. Guess I'll just let them do what they want and not say anything to them and run the newbies off. Maybe you too.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:56 am

kensfishing wrote:The OP asked about JH not SH or MH, but JH. Which to me is worthless. Plain and simple. To the others how many puppy stakes have you watched. Not all of them don't have birds. Most are run on fields that have birds from other stakes, gundog and such. So you need to be informed. If a puppy stake is to be run on a field without birds so be it. I don't agree with that. There's been too many times judging I've put newbies dogs on top in puppy and derby and piss off some pros. Won't name who, but trust me I've done it. I'll also help new people run their dogs as a judge to get them confidence they need and make sure they have fun. Knine we have seen eye to eye for a long time. I've known you for awhile so calm down and enjoy life a little.

Ken..Point is These people want to try something...and YOU feel it is worthless...But you know what there are plenty of people who enjoy it and have fun. and No I will not just sit idly by while you just bash a venue as that is what Our sport our dogs Do NOT Need. We need to support each venue whether we like it or not because if we don't we all will no longer have anything to run our dogs at..that is PLAIN and SIMPLE.

So speaking of other people Who are you to tell them what they will or won't have fun at...Not everyone is competitive not everyone wants to be competitive.

I will suggest to people to try stuff and find out what Makes them happy not Tell them what I deem fit for them to have fun at..We have a government already trying to cram down our throats what they think is best for us..

So back off the new people ..just state how You feel and let people Judge for themselves as to what is fun and what is a waste of Their time or what may be the stepping stones they elect to take to expand their horizons of what they can do with their dogs. Support them for getting out and even trying. Let them grow at their pace.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:11 am

Didn't say they couldn't grow at their own pace.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:14 am

So what is too much competition? You get up in the morning and compete with you workers. You compete in trying to survive in a world that is a dog eat dog world. So what's wrong with being competitive? Nothing. Like I said, I looked into the JH years ago and it didn't float my boat. And you still didn't read that a SH or MH is a much better title than a JH. Your phrase Train for the best. So do it.

jcorcoran · Post by **jcorcoran** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:22 am

Being a newbie, I found that hunt tests are a pretty good way to get your feet wet and meet some other dog people. Some of my friends with Vizslas got me to go to their clubs hunt test to check it out. Then I signed up for the local Brittany club hunt test a few weeks later. It was a good experience. I got to meet some people with similar interests, gun dogs and hunting. Met some of the local trainers, and some breeders. Heck I even got to meet Knine and see some of her dogs in action. Everyone was very nice, answered my questions and let me borrow a blank gun and a collar. The judges gave me some great advice and were encouraging. It is also a good chance to see some really nice dogs in action. At the first one, my friends took me out to the bird field and I watched the MH and SH braces from there for a few hours. It was great. I need one more leg for the JH, and will probably finish it just for fun before moving along to SH or MH. I guess it depends on your expectations.

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:28 am

kensfishing wrote:The OP asked about JH not SH or MH, but JH. Which to me is worthless. Plain and simple. To the others how many puppy stakes have you watched. Not all of them don't have birds. Most are run on fields that have birds from other stakes, gundog and such. So you need to be informed. If a puppy stake is to be run on a field without birds so be it. I don't agree with that. There's been too many times judging I've put newbies dogs on top in puppy and derby and piss off some pros. Won't name who, but trust me I've done it. I'll also help new people run their dogs as a judge to get them confidence they need and make sure they have fun. Knine we have seen eye to eye for a long time. I've known you for awhile so calm down and enjoy life a little.

If you look at your preceding post you made above this one, you are bashing MH as well as JH. Let people have fun in the events they want to enter. Once again, most of the field trial clubs in Nebraska, IA, and MO. do not put birds out for puppy stakes. Most puppy stakes are run as the 1st stakes of the trials on completely different courses than the AA, and GD. So unless the released quail can survive a week of hawks and owls, there won't be much for the pup to find. I prefer hunt tests over trials(IMO). I have finished a FC/AFC dog that was qualified to run in national gun dog 5 years in a row(37 placements all adult). So I do know alittle about field trials. I'm not bashing field trials, I just prefer hunt test---to each his own--just let people have their fun in events they like, without bashing them

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:50 am

I cant speak for pointing dog hunt tests, but I have done quite a bit of retriever hunt tests, mostly because not much else anywhere near where I live. Having never done anything in the sport prior to hunt tests, the JH was useful in learning, but an extremely simple test, but its simple by design I believe. The SH and MH were tougher, and honestly tought me more about crap I do wrong when handling than testing the dogs ability. My dog failed one SH before getting titled, passed 2 MH and failed 3, then I lost her before able to test anymore. They were fun, and learning experiences, however, if I ever have another retriever, I personally would not do a JH test again, however, Im really glad I did it the first go around.

Now, the pointing dog HTs, I cant speak for. I do have a setter born on March 8th this year, that I would love to do something with in sept if I could find one anywhere remotely close.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:05 pm

I never bashed the SH or MH. You need to reread it. The last several puppy trials were run after the broke dog stakes in Branched Oak. Don't know where you've been. I love how the Brittany clubs close their trials to other breeds so they can quailify for their Nationals. I've been quailfied for the Nationals for the last six years also. So I too know a thing or two about trials.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:25 pm

kensfishing wrote: I looked into AKC hunt tests before I started trialing, it didn't float my boat. Guess I was too competitive in other sports, hunting and fishing for a living. I didn't want just to pass a guideline, I wanted much more. Maybe I got more than I bargained for, but anyway here I am. Anyway have fun with whatever you wish to play, but to me a JH title means nothing in this world to me. I've raised enough pups to know if the breeding is right you can't go wrong. I've had pups that were five weeks old and could show better than some of the older dogs I've watched in hunt test. You had to see what passed to believe it.

kensfishing wrote: For your information some clubs have birds in a puppy field. They were there for the other events ran before the puppies run. You need to lighten up. Who says run hunt test before anything else to get your feet wet? That's crap. Period. Like I said I watched many hunt test and don't care for them at all. Most judges wouldn't know what a dog is supposed to dog. Most don't hunt. That's the problem. I wanted more of a challenge with the dogs I raise and finished on both sides. Most of the people on this site have pros handle their dogs to attempt to finish a FC title, and most don't the knowledge or skill to finish an AFC. At least they try. You need to go and watch what I've seen pass for a MH, It's a joke. But the dog pasted the so called rules to get that title. Not let the crap fly.

kensfishing wrote:The OP asked about JH not SH or MH, but JH. Which to me is worthless. Plain and simple. To the others how many puppy stakes have you watched. Not all of them don't have birds. Most are run on fields that have birds from other stakes, gundog and such. So you need to be informed. If a puppy stake is to be run on a field without birds so be it. I don't agree with that. There's been too many times judging I've put newbies dogs on top in puppy and derby and piss off some pros. Won't name who, but trust me I've done it. I'll also help new people run their dogs as a judge to get them confidence they need and make sure they have fun. Knine we have seen eye to eye for a long time. I've known you for awhile so calm down and enjoy life a little.

kensfishing wrote:I never bashed the SH or MH. You need to reread it. The last several puppy trials were run after the broke dog stakes in Branched Oak. Don't know where you've been. I love how the Brittany clubs close their trials to other breeds so they can quailify for their Nationals. I've been quailfied for the Nationals for the last six years also. So I too know a thing or two about trials.

Maybe try reading what I highlighted in RED in Your posts..If that highlighted in Red isn't bashing then what IS ?:roll: You not only bash a venue you also bash the judges again Quoted Your words

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:30 pm

kenfishing wrote:Like I said I watched many hunt test and don't care for them at all.

You need to go and watch what I've seen pass for a MH, It's a joke.

I've had pups that were five weeks old and could show better than some of the older dogs I've watched in hunt test. You had to see what passed to believe it.

And you still didn't read that a SH or MH is a much better title than a JH.

I never bashed the SH or MH. You need to reread it.

These are all quotes from your last few posts. Believe anyone reading them would say you have no use for hunt test no mattrer what level. That's fine but stop trying to tell new comers that they are a waste of their time. And stop trying to make out you didn't critize the whole program because you didn't care for it.

Just move on

Ezzy

madmurph · Post by **madmurph** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:38 pm

Ahumpers, your original question was regarding obtaining the JH title. Things got into whether the JH title has any meaning and opinions on the entire hunt test program for that matter. As stated earlier, to obtain a JH title, you must obtain a qualifying score on 4 seperate occasions. In each JH test, the dog is judged in 4 categories; hunting, bird finding, trainability and pointing. You must have no score lower than a 5 with an average score of at least 7 to receive a qualifying score. Again, you have to do this 4 times.

If you are interested in entering your dog in any type of events in the future and have no experience, the JH would be a great way for you as a handler to gain some experience. In the AKC hunt test program you are competing against a set standard rather than the other dogs entered in the event. For somebody that is a fierce competitor and strives on competition against others, this may not be your cup of tea.

The JH title does not carry much weight for breeding or bragging purposes with most serious bird doggers, however if you as the owner/trainer/handler are happy with earning the title, that is great and that is the way it should be. Perhaps after finishing your JH and having watched some MH braces at a test you may wish to continue on and train for the MH title. Or you may get the competitive bug and wish to compete in field trials. I think it's great to get your dog involved in any events whether hunt tests, field trials, tournament hunts or whatever other game you choose. The important thing is that you and your dog are having a good time.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:50 pm

Ezzy, sorry for that one post. I read and you're right, it didn't come out right. So we're all not perfect in grammar. But I have watched a number of them and some of the MH dogs that passed was a JOKE. Flat out joke. But to each his own. What a lot of people don't realize is that hunt tests are test, not trials. Navhda is not a trial, but a test. Set standards by people who I really don't think or know what a dog is really about. IMO.

LincolnAlexander · Post by **LincolnAlexander** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:09 pm

kensfishing wrote:Ezzy, sorry for that one post. I read and you're right, it didn't come out right. So we're all not perfect in grammar. But I have watched a number of them and some of the MH dogs that passed was a JOKE. Flat out joke. But to each his own. What a lot of people don't realize is that hunt tests are test, not trials. Navhda is not a trial, but a test. Set standards by people who I really don't think or know what a dog is really about. IMO.

Your post seems to contain blatent insults while initially apologizing... not only are hunt tests a joke, but so is NAVHDA? And neither anyone involved in Hunt tests or NAVHDA has idea what a dog is really about? Most people I know in NAVHDA are dyed in the wool hunters... If you don't like a venue that is fine, but no reason for the constant criticism of them.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:21 pm

I didn't say navhda was a joke, did I. They're tests not trials. And most people who set the standards don't have any idea what they're doing. Read it again.

LincolnAlexander · Post by **LincolnAlexander** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:33 pm

kensfishing wrote:I didn't say navhda was a joke, did I. They're tests not trials. And most people who set the standards don't have any idea what they're doing. Read it again.

True you didn't write it directly, though to say the people who set the standards have no idea what they are doing somewhat implies you hold the same view of NAVHDA as you do of hunt tests. Your preference is field trials, cool by me, I like field trials, I like hunt tests and I like NAVHDA. Do I think everything is perfect with them? Not by any means, but that is true of all venues... some of your criticism is valid, but for someone new a JH or an NA test is a great place to start. If it gets them interested in dogs and hunting why bash it?