honky tonk attitude

cstokes/southeast,ks · Post by **cstokes/southeast,ks** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:02 pm

Do you guys notice much of a demand for honky tonk attitude bloodlines these days? Or has the "wants" faded to new and better lines?? We have a litter of some pretty impressive looking pups. Debating on continuing the blood lines.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:43 pm

Think hta sells better out west. I've got a female thats a granddaughter and she is somethin else.

I would hope some thoughtful breeders would keep that line going and maybe even improve upon it.....its good to have some fiddler/additions blood around, and i think HTA was a good example, stylish bird finder.

care to share pictures/pedigree of your litter?

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:13 am

Talk to Ron R on this site and TexasGundogTrainer on this site as well if you get a chance. Ron R has some HTA bred dogs and Texas really knows a bunch about Fiddler lines.

codym · Post by **codym** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:09 am

I have had and trained several HTA son's, daughters, as well as their off spring. I have been really impressed with these dogs, in general they start early and have an extreme desire to point and back. In general most have finished out on their birds around 8 months. We have found that crossing back to CLJ dogs like stephens bright copper has produced some awesome results. Markus at Wrangler Kennels is continuing to breed these two lines very successfully. I also know Craig Shaw breeds heavy in this line and produces some good looking dog as well. Everyone has their own opinion on them, but I'm deffinitely a fan of HTA dogs.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:44 am

You flatter me Tommy. I have to agree with birddog1968 for the most part. I too believe that the HTA dog sales have ran there coarse here in the mid-west but seem to still sell in the west. I have owned, seen and trained my fair share of them. I'm not a fan of linebreeding two HTA dogs but I do like linebreeding it on the GoBoy stuff as well as outcrossing it. We still keep it around in our kennel for that reason.

Good luck with your litter and I'm also looking forward to seeing your pups pedigree and pics of your dogs and pups.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:03 am

Ron R wrote: I'm not a fan of linebreeding two HTA dogs but I do like linebreeding it on the GoBoy stuff as well as outcrossing it.

I am surely biased

But I wish more of it had been crossed with Joe Shadow females....I sure do like mine, and would try another without hesitation.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:39 am

birddog1968 wrote:But I wish more of it had been crossed with Joe Shadow females....

GoBoy stuff is good

but I would prefer in the other way around (Joe Shadow to HTA females).

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:48 pm

Ron R wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:But I wish more of it had been crossed with Joe Shadow females....
GoBoy stuff is good but I would prefer in the other way around (Joe Shadow to HTA females).

That'd be good too, too bad there isn't more close up Joe out there.....

Dunno if its true or not, purely here say but heard Joe throws good stuff thru his females.

cstokes/southeast,ks · Post by **cstokes/southeast,ks** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:53 pm

I will work on getting there pedigree scanned and uploaded on here for you guys tonight. Hopfully some pics as well

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:48 pm

Check out perfect pedigrees on this site.....you can build you pedigree and just link it here.

ckirsch · Post by **ckirsch** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:02 pm

I have an HTA grandson that will probably set the standard for every dog I own from here on out. Breeder tells me that the Rebel on the bottom side of his pedigree is where the dog gets his talent, but he looks like a lot of the HTA dog's I've seen; solid-colored head, great tail, plenty of speed, and lots of style. Dependable retriever and even pretty good in the water. Very enjoyable hunting companion, and he's performed well in the tests and trials we've run. I'll look a long time to find another one I'll like as much as this one.

I've also heard a lot of good things about HTA/CLJ crosses.

cstokes/southeast,ks · Post by **cstokes/southeast,ks** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:33 pm

Here is the sire and Dam's pedigree

The sire is by: Honky Tonk Legacy # 1468736 / BO' Darc Miss Evolution # 1470957

The dam of the pups is by: CH Honky Tonk Icon/ Shadow's Fiddlin Belle

I was unable to find the sire of this pups on "perfect pedigree" and the scanned copy turned out poor due to resolution although i went ahead and attached both. The dam of the pup's pedigree turned out fine which is also attached.

OneTouch Aug 13, 2011 (2).PDF

OneTouch Aug 13, 2011 (1).PDF

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:56 pm

With the economy and general lack of birds in the Midwest I don't know what would be real marketable. I think Derrig's Erin line of dogs would be in demand as much as any. I did see Honky Tonk Attitude go a couple of times, including when he won runner up at the National Free All. I have an old dog by him that is Elhew Damascus and heavy Evolution on the dams side that has been a real nice dog, we have a young dog that we like that is by a son, Honky Tonk Icon and a daughter of Rock Acre Blackhawk. We were trying to double up the Fiddlin' Rocky Boy on the younger dog. I have seen numerous pups and grandpups, I like these two about as good as any.

birddogpete · Post by **birddogpete** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:39 pm

i would have to agree with birddog1968 i think HTA blood is stronger out west i have a nice litter of pups right now that are out of a daughter of HTA and a grandson of HTA and 80% of the intrest i have got has been outta the western states in my opinion the HTA dogs are some of the most stylist,hard goin,eager to please birddogs ever we have had great success crossing HTA with the RIGHT elhew stuff

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:59 pm

If you look at my Jalapeno pedigree link in this post you'll see my female is out of Shadows Fiddlin Belle too....so you got the Joe Shadow workin on the bottom there.

How old is that dam? I might be interested in a pup if you ever breed her again.....Got any photos?

Ive also been interested in trying a double rocky boy bred dog but without any HTA just to see what ones like.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:45 pm

Birddog I have been interested in the same thing. My Annie dog is double Fiddlin Rocky Boy top and bottom and Miller both top and bottom. All my dogs are Fiddlin Rocky Boy and Miller with 3 of them having a bit of Elhew through Crazy Horse and Fibber MacGee. I would like to see what a tight double bred Fiddlin Rocky Boy dog would be like though. I really like the Fiddler bloodlines just never really liked the looks of the HTA dogs I saw. Nothing against them just never cared for their looks. There is a gentleman named Keith Foreman here in Oklahoma who I have heard a lot about and I am dying to meet and see his dogs but have not had the opportunity to do yet that I have heard is a guru when it comes to the Fiddler bloodlines.

cstokes/southeast,ks · Post by **cstokes/southeast,ks** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:43 am

Legacy's Duece Pedigree.pdf

Legacy's Duece (Sire) Pedigree Attachment. Will try to load some pictures of pups later. Will also get Dottie's (Dam) pedigree load.

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:08 am

birddog1968 wrote: Ive also been interested in trying a double rocky boy bred dog but without any HTA just to see what ones like.

I think that would be a great way to go there DOG, and IMO a better cross

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:17 am

I hear ya chip

Its funny, I hear alot of folks that dont like HTA or steer away, seems strange to me considering he was a 9x NC......

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:34 pm

Nice pedigree on your sno's dixie twist BIRDDOG1968. We have a CLJ-HTA female we will be working this fall. Very excited to see what she's got. Its interesting to hear the crosses that are doing good.We have two males that are out of a frozen semen daughter of Additions go boy and whippoorwill wizard we may consider crossing her to next year after hearing about the success.
We have a son of rockacre powder keg and top deduction that we crossed to a female out of cliffs elhew belle. I kept three females and i really like them.
I know a lot of what may be the top seller is important to many. But if we were out to make money on dog.breeding we would have a kennel full of english bulldogs and.not.english pointers. I hope everyone keeps just breeding THEIR ULTIMATE BIRD DOG from whatever Lines it may be

cstokes/southeast,ks · Post by **cstokes/southeast,ks** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:32 pm

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu14 ... 0_5884.jpg

Dottie's Pedigree.pdf

Picture of one pup and Dottie's (Dam's) pedigree

cswaterman · Post by **cswaterman** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:13 pm

I own Maple Mountain kennels and only linebred Honky Tonk Attitude direct sons and daughters, at our kennel we Only hunt and breed dogs that find the most birds. We go to hunt birds not our dogs. These are some of the nicest pointers you will get your hands on. When someone beats HONKY TONK ATTITUDES 9xNCH record then we can say there is something better. You are welcome to go to my website http://www.bluecreekmedia.com/shaw and look at some of the dogs we have produced. as for only being strong in thw west that is not true, most of our puppies are not sold in the west. All I can say is it's good we don't all like the same breeding.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:47 pm

cswaterman wrote: When someone beats HONKY TONK ATTITUDES 9xNCH record then we can say there is something better.

I believe he is a 4xNC in NBHA and not to take anything away from him but there are multiple NC trials during the year as oppossed to just one NC a year in AF for AA and one for SD.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:56 pm

Ron R wrote:I'm not a fan of linebreeding two HTA dogs but I do like linebreeding it on the GoBoy stuff as well as outcrossing it.

Craig, I take it that your somewhat in agreement with me on this post. Your studdog is more GoBoy bred than anything and BTW, he is throwing some nice looking, stylish pups from what I've seen of your adds on gundog central.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:57 pm

I've owned two dogs with HTA blood, and hunted over several more. I've liked all of them. (FWIW they also all had CLJ blood...)

gotpointers wrote: I know a lot of what may be the top seller is important to many. But if we were out to make money on dog.breeding we would have a kennel full of english bulldogs and.not.english pointers. I hope everyone keeps just breeding THEIR ULTIMATE BIRD DOG from whatever Lines it may be

I think that is rightfully a big consideration for many in the context of ensuring homes for the puppies...

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:59 pm

cswaterman wrote:I own Maple Mountain kennels and only linebred Honky Tonk Attitude direct sons and daughters, at our kennel we Only hunt and breed dogs that find the most birds. We go to hunt birds not our dogs. These are some of the nicest pointers you will get your hands on. When someone beats HONKY TONK ATTITUDES 9xNCH record then we can say there is something better. You are welcome to go to my website http://www.bluecreekmedia.com/shaw and look at some of the dogs we have produced. as for only being strong in thw west that is not true, most of our puppies are not sold in the west. All I can say is it's good we don't all like the same breeding.

This just sounds to me like an ad for your kennels.

HTA and his pups are far from the be all, end all of Pointers...

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:23 pm

displaced_texan wrote:This just sounds to me like an ad for your kennels.

I'm all for advertising, so I'll add some pics as well

.

CLJxHTA - Rawlings Copper Jordan

HTAxCLJ - Rawlings Coupe De Ville

HTAxJoe Shadow - Rawlings Bedtime Bugsy

Texasdogtrainer · Post by **Texasdogtrainer** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:32 pm

cswaterman wrote:I own Maple Mountain kennels and only linebred Honky Tonk Attitude direct sons and daughters, at our kennel we Only hunt and breed dogs that find the most birds. We go to hunt birds not our dogs. These are some of the nicest pointers you will get your hands on. When someone beats HONKY TONK ATTITUDES 9xNCH record then we can say there is something better. You are welcome to go to my website http://www.bluecreekmedia.com/shaw and look at some of the dogs we have produced. as for only being strong in thw west that is not true, most of our puppies are not sold in the west. All I can say is it's good we don't all like the same breeding.

I got to see your dog run before he was sold to Harris Kennel. Dr. Stan Wint ran him and his brother in Region 7 Shooting Dog Championship. I have a picture of him on point.

codym · Post by **codym** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:34 pm

Ron those are some beautiful dogs! The only knock on the HTAxCLJ cross is the tails but your dogs don't look like they are lacking any in the style dept. I got a another Ike pup on the way in a couple months hope she turns out nice.

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:48 pm

Ron R wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:This just sounds to me like an ad for your kennels.
I'm all for advertising, so I'll add some pics as well .

HTAxJoe Shadow - Rawlings Bedtime Bugsy

Ron, best looking dog you got IMO. I love the looks of that dog! I kick myself in the "bleep" for not getting a pup off your las litter.

Mike

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:53 pm

Stan Wint and Scott Miller did a heck of a job marketing Honky Tonk Attitude. From the awesome picture of him on point that we have all seen over and over to his registered name etc. As I have stated I liked him and some of his get, I tried to breed my daughter of his to Turbo but it didn't take. Those pups would have had a chance now, double up the Fiddlin' Rocky Boy and add some Bayou Teche Willie to boot. Scott quit working for Gary Keel about the time some of Rocky Boy's pups were becomng shooting dogs and they weren't campaigned much, so we didn't hear as much about Turbo, High View Tribute, High View Jake and others as we would have if they would have stayed together.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:14 pm

Ron R wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:This just sounds to me like an ad for your kennels.
I'm all for advertising, so I'll add some pics as well .

I didn't mean it as a bad thing, just thinking out loud... I love the HTA dogs, especially crossed with CLJ, and the both of you have some great looking examples of them.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:34 am

codym wrote:Ron those are some beautiful dogs! The only knock on the HTAxCLJ cross is the tails but your dogs don't look like they are lacking any in the style dept.

Thanks Cody, You and I are on the same page as to what we breed for. These are the genitics a person gets when they breed performance and style and pay no attention to whether or not they have a even mask or solid head. I'll take a half masked dog with style over an even masked dog or solid headed dog that's low in front with a poor tail.

birdogg42 wrote:Ron, best looking dog you got IMO. I love the looks of that dog!

Thanks Mike. I have actually had a repitable breeder tell me that he didn't want that dog's genetics into his breeding program because she was half masked and when you look at the dogs on his website most are low in front with poor style. I'm sure they are performers but to each his own. We are making two breedings in the next year and one is taking place within the week and the other will take place in about 5 months. The first one is (Rebal) GoBoy son to RUCh Erin's Priceless and the other is (Chopper) linebred CLJ Male to (Kate) HT Highrise x Joe Shadow daughter. Let me know if any of these tickle your fancy.

displaced_texan wrote:I didn't mean it as a bad thing, just thinking out loud...

I really hope that I'm not offending anyone by posting pics and talking about our breedings. Appologies if I am.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:52 am

Ron R wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:I didn't mean it as a bad thing, just thinking out loud...
I really hope that I'm not offending anyone by posting pics and talking about our breedings. Appologies if I am.

I wasn't offended at all. Pics are always welcome, at least of the dogs, not real sure I want to look at you

Plus bloodline discussions are usually fun and entertaining...

I typed the first one on my phone, kinda lazy and kinda in a hurry, probably should have added a smiley to it, I meant it jokingly.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:28 am

Got a pedigree on Bugsy, Ron? He's nice and intense.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:39 am

birddog1968 wrote:Got a pedigree on Bugsy, Ron? He's nice and intense.

Here you go and she's a girl

. This is her littermate;
http://www.harriskennels.com/dog.php?dogID=612

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:49 am

That litter must be a year older than mine, think i remember seeing that litter. She sure is loaded up on the HTA stuff, nice dog.

Got any short video clips of her?

Here's a short one of mine after a blizzard melted off....just runnin. that field was 4 ft tall milo before the 4 feet of snow.

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s2/c ... pep003.mp4

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:29 pm

I have seen lots of cherry eye in the linebred HTA stuff. And really small dogs, I had one out of Shadows Attitude, loved him in the yard, hated him in the field. I bought a Sir Lancelot male and could not be happier. I would stay away from anything line bred out of him, though when crossed with other stuff I have seen nice dogs. Plus I think people have a hard time winning with them, mine was a renegade, and HTA was a very well known hard headed dog, hence you dont see them in The Field that much. I talked with a very very prominent amatuer and he told me they should of culled him and saved everyone a lot of headache!

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:32 pm

Elkhunter wrote:I have seen lots of cherry eye in the linebred HTA stuff.

I haven't seen any cherry eye.

Elkhunter wrote:And really small dogs

Some but not all.

Elkhunter wrote:I had one out of Shadows Attitude, loved him in the yard, hated him in the field.

I sure can relate with that.

Elkhunter wrote: Plus I think people have a hard time winning with them,

Dogs don't get bred as much as he did if he wasn't throwing some good dogs. He has produced tons of walking Champions in NSTRA, NBHA, and US Complete. It's not fair to blame him entirely for all the duds out there because he is only half or less. A breeder needs to start with a good gyp but there were alot of so called breeders just breeding anything to him because his pups sell. I'm not a fan of linebreeding it either and I believe a person will get better dogs with him a couple generations back. This is just my opinion and I respect yours. I also think we as individuals choose the the bloodline of our choice mostly due to the luck that we have had with it.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:38 pm

Good post Ron.....

On the other side of the coin, I loves me some white dogs....not seen one yet that didn't have brains.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:55 pm

birddog1968 wrote:On the other side of the coin, I loves me some white dogs....not seen one yet that didn't have brains.

All I ever owned was Miller dogs until about 3 1/2 years ago and I got that stupid CLJ pup and my thinking changed. I will always have a very special place in my heart for Miller dogs but that CLJ male is just the best I have owned.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:02 pm

Ron R wrote: I also think we as individuals choose the the bloodline of our choice mostly due to the luck that we have had with it.

Possibly the most true sentence ever posted on here...

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:46 pm

Ron R wrote: I also think we as individuals choose the the bloodline of our choice mostly due to the luck that we have had with it.

Preach on brother Ron.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:49 pm

There was a few litters out here in UT that had cherry eye everywhere, one litter 2 out of the 3 pups had cherry eye and one is a full grown female that weighs under 30 lbs and her brother is HUGE. I know Ross Calloway had problems with cherry eye also. I am sure there are some good ones and bad ones, just where I am from there have been very few that I have been impressed with. Even Scott Miller has very few HTA dogs that he runs anymore. I would just be careful buying anything tightly line-bred HTA which I guess would be my main point of criticism, outcrossed I have seen some really nice dogs.. Though they sure do look pretty on point, which sells a lot of dogs!

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:24 pm

Ron, have you crossed, or seen any HTA with sirlancelot?

Mike

sckwest1 · Post by **sckwest1** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:37 pm

Here are a few breedings that have some hta and fiddler in them; Jake may be bred to my daughter of HTA who is tight elhew on bottom (this is a sister to my HTA gyp http://run-n-gunkennel.com/dog.php?DogID=76 ) , here is jake's ped http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=3451 if not to Jake then she will be bred to Rebel http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2782 One of these studs may be bred to a sister to Rebel's dam who is a daughter of Honky Tonk Gigolo to a fiddler/elhew gyp. For the Miller fans this breeding may take place as well Stock Option http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2793 to Nelly http://perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2783 Hope these links work and goodluck, SCKWEST

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:09 pm

birdogg42 wrote:Ron, have you crossed, or seen any HTA with sirlancelot?

Mike

Not really.

birddogpete · Post by **birddogpete** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:00 pm

2002 NBHA Amateur Invitational Champion 2001 NBHA Amateur National Champion 2001 NBHA Northcentral Regional Champion 2000 NBHA RU National Shooting Dog Champion 1999 NBHA National Open Invitational Champion 1999 ABHA National Open Shooting Dog Champion 1999 NBHA RU National Free For All Champion 2000 North Central Regional Open Shooting Dog Champion 2000 ABHA Northwest Central Open Shooting Dog Champion 1998 ABHA Northwest Central Regional Open Shooting Dog Champion 1997 NBHA Western Regional Open Shooting Dog Champion 2000 Kasco NBHA Pointing Dog of the Year 2000 NBHA Open Shooting Dog of the Year 1999 NBHA Oklahoma Open Shooting Dog of the Year 1998 NBHA Oklahoma RU Shooting Dog of the Year 1997 NBHA Oklahoma Amateur Shooting Dog of the Year 1996 NBHA Oklahoma Amateur Derby of the Year 1996 NBHA Missouri Open Derby of the Year 1996 NBHA Missouri Amateur Derby of the Year............................................ a renagade maybe,a cull i dont think so

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:29 pm

Elkhunter wrote:There was a few litters out here in UT that had cherry eye everywhere, one litter 2 out of the 3 pups had cherry eye and one is a full grown female that weighs under 30 lbs and her brother is HUGE. I know Ross Calloway had problems with cherry eye also. I am sure there are some good ones and bad ones, just where I am from there have been very few that I have been impressed with. Even Scott Miller has very few HTA dogs that he runs anymore. I would just be careful buying anything tightly line-bred HTA which I guess would be my main point of criticism, outcrossed I have seen some really nice dogs.. Though they sure do look pretty on point, which sells a lot of dogs!

Scott doesnt run dogs anymore.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:40 pm

ElhewPointer wrote:
Elkhunter wrote:There was a few litters out here in UT that had cherry eye everywhere, one litter 2 out of the 3 pups had cherry eye and one is a full grown female that weighs under 30 lbs and her brother is HUGE. I know Ross Calloway had problems with cherry eye also. I am sure there are some good ones and bad ones, just where I am from there have been very few that I have been impressed with. Even Scott Miller has very few HTA dogs that he runs anymore. I would just be careful buying anything tightly line-bred HTA which I guess would be my main point of criticism, outcrossed I have seen some really nice dogs.. Though they sure do look pretty on point, which sells a lot of dogs!
Scott doesnt run dogs anymore.

Why muddy a good discussion with details like that?