Bell at Field Trial??

Knightfarms · Post by **Knightfarms** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:02 pm

If my pup is off leash, he's wearing a bell... and that's how I usually do it.

Someone today told me that the bell is frowned upon in field trials. He's running in puppy classes this weekend, so please let me know your thoughts

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:15 pm

As long as the judges don't mind/not against the rules, go for it. Most important thing is getting into it.

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:46 pm

What are you going to do when the dog goes on point...sory, thinks bells are a waste.

mudhunter · Post by **mudhunter** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:51 pm

in the northeast region bells are in all cover dog stakes and many of the guys that compete in both cover dog and walking quail trials will use bells in quail trials. Other than that I have never seen a bell on a horseback dog.

Post by **topher40** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:57 pm

Depending on the venue they may allow it. AFTCA trials DONT. Really the only thing the bell does is to make you more comfortable. Has nothing to do with the dog whatsoever.

remmy · Post by **remmy** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:59 pm

I think cover dog trials you can use a bell. In regular AKC trials I don't think a bell is allowed. If that were the case what would prevent a handler from using a beeper collar then? The only "tracking or locating" device allowed is a tracking collar or garmin...both can only be activated after dog is no longer in judgement.

Knightfarms · Post by **Knightfarms** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:51 pm

The bell is most definitely for my piece of mind. I'm not even going to pretend that it's not.

It's an AKC walking trial, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to use it anyway, sounds like maybe not... BUT if I could, I didn't want to be too frowned upon.

Thanks everyone!

Grange · Post by **Grange** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:37 pm

In cover dog trials a bell is a must. I've used a bell for one non-cover dog trial. There are several trials where using a bell was not allowed. I was told it is considered a training aid.

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:01 pm

It's a puppy stake . Owners are nervous about losing their pup. I 'd be surprised if any Judge would care. Ask the Judge ahead of time just to be sure.Check out what the Derby dogs are wearing- probably only a GPS unit. Good luck with your pup. Don't call him in. the Judges want to see an independent pup, searching with confidence. Sometimes an aggressive pup is entered. Not to worry you ,but if one attacks your dog , pick pup up immediately. Pup doesn't need a bad memory for his first Stake. Let us know how it goes.

chicken19590 · Post by **chicken19590** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:12 pm

We have had 4 or 5 AKC placements and our girl was wearing a bell in all of them. We had one judge have us take the bell off because the brace mate was having a problem with the bell and we still placed in that stake. Our girl is only 29 lbs and you hear her long before you see her, she is liver roan and can blend into just about anything.

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:39 pm

That's a great avatar!

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:44 pm

The issue I have with bells is if your dog is coming from behind, EVERYONE...the gallery, the judges, the other handler and you all know your dog just came from behind, and it's hard to win when that happens. I'd find a better way to have peace of mind (like a good scout).

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:58 pm

I am not familiar with cover dog trials. However in an akc or af trial I would inquire about it being a tracking device

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:07 pm

I would use a tracker and if you need to bring it out then so be it. What would you do if the dog went a mile out? Can't hear the bell. Tracker will work though.

Knightfarms · Post by **Knightfarms** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:07 am

I would also use a tracker if I had the means to purchase one

I've got a big running pup whose bell I can hear until about 200 yards in the woods, but I often lose the sound cause he's out running.

There are times that he circles up behind me, so +1 to whoever it was that mentioned that EVERYONE would know if he had a bell on. Good to know that there have been some placements with bells on, nonetheless.

There are no birds or blanks in this Trial and I know my brace mate for Open puppy (the first one I'll be running in), so I'm super excited!!! I'm leaving tonight to get there, get my tent set up, and run around just a bit.

-Cheryl

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:27 am

I have run a few AKC foot trials in ME. In the woods, They allowed bells, if they did not one would very seldom find the dog on point. The bell at least gives you the dogs last location. I have miss cued before and in one instance I said the dog name to get her to move her head, she did. I pretty much knew she would not move if the bird were still there. I had an idea of her last location. But when we got there We could not find her anywhere, she was in the brush near a downed tree. From when we started looking, we found her after about 8 min. The bird was about 5 yards away.

Use a tracker to find your dog are you not picked up?

Training aid??? :roll:

Knightfarms · Post by **Knightfarms** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:58 am

Tracker is more for piece of mind but we can't use them... it's my understanding that as soon as you ask for the receiver you're dq-ed, but at least you know where your dog is...

$4 Turkey bell that I can use all the time v. $600 super cool gps system that I can't use in competition. For now, I'm going with the bell.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:40 am

Knightfarms wrote:I would also use a tracker if I had the means to purchase one

I've got a big running pup whose bell I can hear until about 200 yards in the woods, but I often lose the sound cause he's out running.

There are times that he circles up behind me, so +1 to whoever it was that mentioned that EVERYONE would know if he had a bell on. Good to know that there have been some placements with bells on, nonetheless.

There are no birds or blanks in this Trial and I know my brace mate for Open puppy (the first one I'll be running in), so I'm super excited!!! I'm leaving tonight to get there, get my tent set up, and run around just a bit.

-Cheryl

Im sure someone at the trial would be willing to let you use their tracker for a puppy stake. Also, ask someone to scout for you. You have to have confidence in your animal. That will show up to the judges more then your dog making a bad move.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:27 pm

Can your dog wear a bell at an AKC trial? Yes

Will the judges look down on it? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on the judge.

Will the bell hurt your chances? Maybe, if your dog ever shows up behind.

Would I put one on MY dog? No. Because of the answers to the last 2 questions.

Munster · Post by **Munster** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:51 pm

Ahumphers91a wrote:What are you going to do when the dog goes on point...sory, thinks bells are a waste.

In my case, I could tape it to a tail!

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:11 pm

Knightfarms wrote:Tracker is more for piece of mind but we can't use them... it's my understanding that as soon as you ask for the receiver you're dq-ed, but at least you know where your dog is...

$4 Turkey bell that I can use all the time v. $600 super cool gps system that I can't use in competition. For now, I'm going with the bell.

That should help you to trust the dog more IMO, if you really think he's gone pull the tracker and get d qd' but otherwise trust the dog will make his way back if lost.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:27 am

You can use the super cool gps collar in most trials. You have to have the hand held portion off but if you need to use it to locate the puppy that got under ravens.... you can.

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:41 pm

We need to remember that this is a puppy in his first trial .I don't think a tracker or scout will be needed. Highly unlikely pup will be out a mile on point. The time allowed is 20 minutes if I remember correctly. A bell should be just fine.

PS I would never use a bell in a derby or shooting dog event for the very reason Karen said ." Sometimes you don't want the Judge to know where your dog is"

and a tracker does the job just fine.

remmy · Post by **remmy** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:22 pm

I don't think bells are allowed in AKC trials. It is considered a training/locating aid. If people have used them then the judges either didn't know or allowed them to for some reason. Again, what would differ using a bell from a beeper collar then? That is why they have scouts in field trials and not beepers or bells. The scout is supposed to find the dog when lost.

A tracker is not only used to find a dog a mile on point, it is used to find a dog that you don't its whereabouts. Regardless if this is a puppy in his first trial, if he is bred good he will most likely run.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:05 pm

Lol. I have seen a puppy who needed a tracker at 8 months. Dog could fly. Judge told the guy the next time he saw him the dog needed to have a tracker.... darn running dogs.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:56 pm

Sharon wrote:We need to remember that this is a puppy in his first trial .I don't think a tracker or scout will be needed. Highly unlikely pup will be out a mile on point. The time allowed is 20 minutes if I remember correctly. A bell should be just fine.

PS I would never use a bell in a derby or shooting dog event for the very reason Karen said ." Sometimes you don't want the Judge to know where your dog is" and a tracker does the job just fine.

I've watched puppies run way to big for most people. Bells, I don't want them on a dog at a trial. It's not allowed. As for derby or gun dog, it's not allowed. It is considered a training aid.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:31 pm

remmy wrote:I don't think bells are allowed in AKC trials.

We asked an AKC rep that was at one of our trials years ago and he said they were allowed.

Upland Point · Post by **Upland Point** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:57 pm

ultracarry wrote:I would use a tracker and if you need to bring it out then so be it. What would you do if the dog went a mile out? Can't hear the bell. Tracker will work though.

Exactly!

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:09 pm

kensfishing wrote:
Sharon wrote:We need to remember that this is a puppy in his first trial .I don't think a tracker or scout will be needed. Highly unlikely pup will be out a mile on point. The time allowed is 20 minutes if I remember correctly. A bell should be just fine.

PS I would never use a bell in a derby or shooting dog event for the very reason Karen said ." Sometimes you don't want the Judge to know where your dog is" and a tracker does the job just fine.
I've watched puppies run way to big for most people. Bells, I don't want them on a dog at a trial. It's not allowed. As for derby or gun dog, it's not allowed. It is considered a training aid.

Ken's a Judge and runs dog's....I would say he knows the rule book pretty well??

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:38 pm

phermes1 wrote:
remmy wrote:I don't think bells are allowed in AKC trials.
We asked an AKC rep that was at one of our trials years ago and he said they were allowed.

I don't run in AKC but for those who do , they want to get this clarified.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:43 pm

ultracarry wrote:Lol. I have seen a puppy who needed a tracker at 8 months. Dog could fly. Judge told the guy the next time he saw him the dog needed to have a tracker.... darn running dogs.

Who's dog was that?

The embaressing thing was having it happen a second time under that same judge. She did have a garmin on that time.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:49 pm

Sharon wrote:We need to remember that this is a puppy in his first trial .I don't think a tracker or scout will be needed. Highly unlikely pup will be out a mile on point. The time allowed is 20 minutes if I remember correctly. A bell should be just fine. .

I wish that was the case when my girl ran her first two trials. We only saw her at the break away, then again on the way back to the start/ finish. She didn't place in either of them.

Chief_dog · Post by **Chief_dog** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:09 am

For some reason I get some emails from a viszla list, and remember that topic coming up several months ago. On April 15, one of them talked to Bonnie Hidalgo, executive AKC field rep, and she said that bells were totally legal.

Also, one of them got an email from Lisa Carrol, Director of Performance Events on April 6, which said that belled collars are permissible, although "It is not specifically referenced in the Field Trial Rules."

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:05 am

I went through the rules again last night and there is no reference to bells. So I guess if it's referenced it can be used.

Knightfarms · Post by **Knightfarms** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:06 pm

I wanted to let everyone know how things panned out:

We won our open class and placed second in the amateur puppy class!!! Pretty exciting for my first gun dog, and first field trial for both of us.

No bell
No tracker collar
A few scouts on horseback because they were interested in the pup, and he's a huge running dog.

Here's our pick:

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:08 pm

congrats!!

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:44 pm

Good for you. that is a b i g puppy ; how old is he/she?

Knightfarms · Post by **Knightfarms** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:23 pm

Thanks!!!! We had a great time. I learned that I should probably look in to buying an ATV or get horses again

Cooper is 7 months old, and he is very tall (24") But to be fair, I am also very tall (6 feet) and not a small woman.

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:40 pm

I assume these are AKC trials? Can you use an ATV in trials ? Are there restrictions.?

shags · Post by **shags** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:42 pm

Congrats! You must be on cloud nine

Bad thing is, this could be the beginning of a long, winding, costly road for ya

Knightfarms · Post by **Knightfarms** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:13 pm

These are AKC trials, and no ATV's allowed. I just meant that for training him farther than puppy, I might need a way to keep up with him and work with him when he points. Lord knows at this point, he's not patient enough to hold his point and wait for me to huff and puff to catch up to him.

BUT huff and puff I will at this point along with my bell

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:21 pm

BIG CONGRATS!! Sounds like now your hooked & ready to get serious.

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:09 pm

Cooper did a great job, as did you

CONGRATS

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:06 pm

Congrats! Don't get better than that!

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:27 pm

Congrats. I am sorry to tell you this, but like the others have said the hook is set, there's no stopping now. Enjoy the ride.

remmy · Post by **remmy** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:58 am

I was really curious so I contacted AKC and this was their response:

"Bells are not specifically mentioned in the PBFT Rule Book. We have said yes they can be used and we will be clarifying the rulebook in the next printing."

I guess I stand corrected.

Knightfarms · Post by **Knightfarms** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:15 pm

Yes!!!! I am running him next time with it.