destructive behavior

dbcooper · Post by **dbcooper** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

I've had labs before but never one this destructive. He'll dump the garbage all over the house during the night or he'll jump on the counter and eat everything within reach. I'm at a dead end here, he has all the basic commands for retrieving and knows them well. The wife already wants to get rid of him and I'm trying to avoid that. Help please.

isonychia · Post by **isonychia** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:17 am

How old is he?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:19 am

Crate.

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:24 am

Crate him when you can't supervise him, and at night.

Put an ecollar on him, set food up all over the counter and hide where you can see him. Fry his furry little butt for counter surfing (and say nothing) or don't leave food where he can reach it.

How old is he?

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:30 am

i had a rescue dog that loooved to destroy the garbage no matter where it was (inside and out) thats why i ended up with him..i put the garbage in a bin outside with a lid and inside made a cupboard for the garbage to be in..the dog is getting rewarded by getting to eat the garbage so it motivates him to keep doing it, same with the food on the counter, if he is successful in getting the food on the counter even once it is motivation to do it again..i wouldnt let the dog loose in the kitchen when food is out, crate him or make sure you are there to stop him, hope it helps...ruth

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:31 am

A crate is your friend. Might also need a bark collar.

Another handy trick to end counter surfing is to put mouse traps on the edge of the counter and gently cover them with a paper towel.

jmsgunner · Post by **jmsgunner** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:36 am

Cajun Casey wrote:Crate.

Amen.

dbcooper · Post by **dbcooper** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:54 am

He's almost a year old and what else might used instead of a crate?

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:55 am

Yep, crate.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:57 am

dbcooper wrote:He's almost a year old and what else might used instead of a crate?

Outdoor kennel.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:01 am

If you do not wish to use a crate then have an emergency vet number handy when the dog gets into something while your sleeping and he is running rampant chewing and destroying things and gets into something that is potentially lethal for him.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:36 am

A crate is nothing more than an indoor dog house. Our dogs go get in there crate when they come in at night or even sometimes during the day when they want to sleep. And they don't like to ride in the truck or car unless they are in their crate. Thats a place of security for them. That's what your dog is trying to tell you.

Ezzy

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:38 am

Its never to late to crate train a dog, and I've never seen a dog that didn't love a safe place.

KellyM87 · Post by **KellyM87** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:42 am

unless there is another reason for not having a crate, why not? they don't like em at first, but the definitely learn that it is THEIR spot, somewhere that is only available to them. Both my dogs learned to love their crates after a few months, and would go in them by themselves when they were tired or wanted to be alone. I recommend covering the crate with a blanket or something, so it is more of a den and a personal space for them.

jmsgunner · Post by **jmsgunner** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:55 am

dbcooper wrote:He's almost a year old and what else might used instead of a crate?

Training.

How long has this been going on? My boy knows if he does something wrong in the house when I am gone it's the crate for him the next day.

He's been out of his crate since he was 8 months old. Most he's ever ruined is flip flops.

As for now, my living situation has changed and he was back in his crate for a bit (now at training) and I'll work up to letting him out full time again when I work.

Why wouldn't you use a crate???

dbcooper · Post by **dbcooper** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:22 pm

I've never had a dog that needed a crate and its my own personal bias about them. I'm jot saying they don't work, I just don't believe in them. This started probably last week or so. I don't have an e-collar yet but I'm going to look into them.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:52 pm

dbcooper wrote:I've never had a dog that needed a crate and its my own personal bias about them. I'm jot saying they don't work, I just don't believe in them. This started probably last week or so. I don't have an e-collar yet but I'm going to look into them.

I didnt use to use crates before either (years ago) and when i finally got one and started crate training it was great..think of it like a safe place for your dog to go and sleep without being bothered, also a safe place to prevent him from getting into things in the garbage without getting sick, if he has to go to the vet and stay when he is sick he will be put into a cage which in a sense is a crate, if you ever board him he will also be in a kennel so its good for him to know its a good safe place..you should think of it like you do your own bedroom, its where you rest, sleep and relax..its where you can go in and nobody bother you..not trying to make you feel as though you HAVE to agree with them but your dog will really like it...ruth

isonychia · Post by **isonychia** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:02 pm

dbcooper wrote:I've never had a dog that needed a crate and its my own personal bias about them. I'm jot saying they don't work, I just don't believe in them. This started probably last week or so. I don't have an e-collar yet but I'm going to look into them.

Thats because you have always owned labs

Actually, my dog just went into his crate and laid down when I sat down here to eat my lunch! He likes it so much he would even miss an opportunity to beg. The crate can be temporary too you know, once he grows into the lab that he is, you can do away with it. But hold on a second here... you would rather let your wife get rid of the dog than crate him? Those are some mixed ethics! :roll:

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:07 pm

dbcooper wrote:I've never had a dog that needed a crate and its my own personal bias about them. I'm jot saying they don't work, I just don't believe in them. This started probably last week or so. I don't have an e-collar yet but I'm going to look into them.

No offense, but dogs aren't people. They are dogs. What you personally believe really shouldn't matter. What matters is the safety and health of the animal. Crates give that, and give the dog a safe, secure place to go.

My mother used to not believe in them, and thought it was sad that I crated mine. Till she had to watch my wife's dog, and crate one of hers that was supposed to be resting. She realized that the dogs like the safe, secure place. It is their den. Now that all of their dogs have crates, the dogs are better behaved, and safer. No more eating trash, etc...

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:19 pm

Time to put your bias aside and use a crate when you are not supervising. A dog is much like a 2 year old. Have you ever left a 2 year old to do what they please unsupervised? He'll bark and whine to get out. If that makes you want to let him out, no use getting a crate. I'm quite sure you are giving the dog trouble when he gets into stuff - I would. Being disciplined daily is more harmful then any crate will ever be. ( Dog should be able to stand up and stretch out his legs in the crate.)

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:22 pm

E collar is not the answer
If you are not watching him and do not catch him in the act..then anything you do is after the fact and the dog has pretty much learned that it is a free for all when you are sleeping

My dogs love their crates also

and I care far to much for my dogs Not to Crate the ones that have destructive habits ..I would be crushed if I found one electrocuted or got a bottle of something or eats the remote and chews on a battery..or many other things that can be very harmful if not flat out lethal to the dog or eats a piece of something and gets plug in the intestines Talk about a horrible painful thing for a dog to go through...Might try reading the one lately where a dog got a hold of someones sock String is even worse. Or a perforated bowel from a splinter of wood.

not all dogs make good house dogs some are OK with supervision

isonychia · Post by **isonychia** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:28 pm

Or a perforated bowel from a splinter of wood.

That's interesting, I guess they lose some instinct over years of domestication. I used to worry when my dog chewed on sticks when he was younger and used to swallow everything. People thought I was a crazy worry wort... but then again research has shown worry to be a very strong link to natural selection.

Redfishkilla · Post by **Redfishkilla** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:31 pm

"I've never had a dog that needed a crate and its my own personal bias about them."

Are you kidding? All these people dog obsessed people are telling you to get a crate, they use them, and it will help your problem and you won't use one? Really? lol.

One thing I used to do, even though my dogs don't get on counters, is tie them up to close to where they sleep so they can’t wonder the house at night. But only one thing could be better than this…..wait for it……a CRATE. Good luck.

isonychia · Post by **isonychia** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:41 pm

Look how happy!@ If you use this type of crate they can knock out the sides so I put little master locks on the top ends to hold them together

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:44 pm

isonychia wrote:Look how happy!@ If you use this type of crate they can knock out the sides so I put little master locks on the top ends to hold them together

How do you like the Wobbler? Does it work well for your dog?

isonychia · Post by **isonychia** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:02 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
isonychia wrote:Look how happy!@ If you use this type of crate they can knock out the sides so I put little master locks on the top ends to hold them together
How do you like the Wobbler? Does it work well for your dog?

I like it except for the noise on the wood floor. My dog loves the thing. I stopped putting his food in it as much anymore though, don't really get toys for him anymore like I used to since he has calmed down, the marrow bone is just about all I get him now... maybe if I got him some more new toys he'd stop whining so much on off days!

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:37 pm

displaced_texan wrote:
dbcooper wrote:I've never had a dog that needed a crate and its my own personal bias about them. I'm jot saying they don't work, I just don't believe in them. This started probably last week or so. I don't have an e-collar yet but I'm going to look into them.
No offense, but dogs aren't people. They are dogs. What you personally believe really shouldn't matter. What matters is the safety and health of the animal. Crates give that, and give the dog a safe, secure place to go.

My mother used to not believe in them, and thought it was sad that I crated mine. Till she had to watch my wife's dog, and crate one of hers that was supposed to be resting. She realized that the dogs like the safe, secure place. It is their den. Now that all of their dogs have crates, the dogs are better behaved, and safer. No more eating trash, etc...

Well said.

Charlie

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:38 pm

Crate for his safety and your sanity. Our year old chessie loves his crate - the other 8 dogs are all crate trained (even the hunting beagles!). Every foster dog I handle uses a crate. I've only had one dog in all the years of fostering that couldn't be crated - she chewed through several crates - we're talking one dog out of about 50 total.

Introduce him correctly to the crate and he'll likely love it. Several of our dogs nap in their crates during the day when we're working from home. It's the easiest and most fool proof way to keep your dog safe. You don't need to keep him in it when you're interacting with him, but when you're not interacting - why does he need to be loose to get into trouble. Vet bills and death by ingesting foreign objects are serious issues that a crate will totally prevent.

shags · Post by **shags** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:53 pm

I have five dogs in the house and at some point they've all been crated until they prove they are trustworthy. We keep one crate up now, and at various times all the dogs use it on their own. They like going in there to get off by themselves sometimes. IMO a dog would much prefer you give up a bias against crates; they generally have their own bias against getting screamed at, whacked on the head, pulled around by the collar, thrown out into the garage, getting sick from eating garbage or too many brownies, being zapped by an ecollar, and getting rehomed because the lady of the house has had enough.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:59 pm

shags wrote:I have five dogs in the house and at some point they've all been crated until they prove they are trustworthy. We keep one crate up now, and at various times all the dogs use it on their own. They like going in there to get off by themselves sometimes. IMO a dog would much prefer you give up a bias against crates; they generally have their own bias against getting screamed at, whacked on the head, pulled around by the collar, thrown out into the garage, getting sick from eating garbage or too many brownies, being zapped by an ecollar, and getting rehomed because the lady of the house has had enough.

One crate would not work for ours, they play musical crates, and sometimes share, but once things start winding down at night, there are at least 3 occupied out of the four crates.

Excellent point on the bias the dog certainly holds.

reba · Post by **reba** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:06 pm

The problem is you.

You leave the garbage where the dog can get at it.

You leave food on the counter where the dog can get it.

You don't and will not crate the dog.

Yep, it's the dog's fault.

fuzznut · Post by **fuzznut** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:47 pm

I'm trying hard to understand this one... I don't believe in crates, but I have no problem zapping the snot out of them for doing what dogs do!
It's a dog!!!!!! Dogs eat trash if it's there for them to eat. Dogs eat shoes if they are there to eat. Dogs steal stuff off counters, babies toys, knock down old ladies and little kids! It's what dogs do!!!!

But it's not what dogs do if you teach them not to do it. And the first thing you have to do is stop the pattern of the dog doing these things! If you don't like a crate, then lock him in your bedroom at night. Put an eye bolt in the baseboard and tether him to it.

Wishing and hoping he will quit ain't gonna make it so. Sorry to be the bearer (all of us) of the bad news.

I agree that you better make real good friends with your vet... he's gonna love you!
Fuzz (who apologizes for being so snotty about it... but geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzz)

dbcooper · Post by **dbcooper** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:53 pm

I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression here, its not that I'm ignoring advice about using a crate, its just that I'd like to explore other options first. And this all started about a week ago and before he was just fine and didn't get into things at night.
Thanks for the help so far.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:20 pm

dbcooper wrote:I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression here, its not that I'm ignoring advice about using a crate, its just that I'd like to explore other options first. And this all started about a week ago and before he was just fine and didn't get into things at night.
Thanks for the help so far.

16 people just told you to use a crate. my advice? um..............................................better make that 17 people.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:26 pm

There must be a new virus going round over the last several mos as this forum has had more then a couple new members join,ask for advice & then totaly ignore the advice given.
Anyone have the cure??

sully511 · Post by **sully511** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:52 pm

If you don't want to use a crate, then you should at least block the dog in a small room like a bathroom or laundry room with EVERYTHING up out of reach of the dog when you are not there or sleeping. And when you are around keep the dog tethered to you. Getting into the garbage is nothing to fool around with. I have seen dogs deathly ill from eating stuff they shouldn't. They can get obstructions, pancreatitis, possibly something toxic..... all life threatening and not something you want your dog or yourself to go through.

JessiNGunther · Post by **JessiNGunther** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:06 pm

displaced_texan wrote:Its never to late to crate train a dog, and I've never seen a dog that didn't love a safe place.

I did not crate train gun until he was around 6 months and now he LOVES his crate

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:28 pm

dbcooper wrote:I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression here, its not that I'm ignoring advice about using a crate, its just that I'd like to explore other options first. And this all started about a week ago and before he was just fine and didn't get into things at night.
Thanks for the help so far.

I understand what you are saying but after 45 years of working with dogs, I can say with confidence that there is no other solution other than housing the dog in a kennel outside.

PS During the first year a dog is regularly changing in behaviour and co-operation as independence grows.. It is common to hear someone say, "Well he didn't do that last week." I have a 13 year old dog has has started doing the rounds on all wastebaskets looking for little paper cups and rolls. He didn't do that last week.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:05 pm

dbcooper wrote:I've never had a dog that needed a crate and its my own personal bias about them. I'm jot saying they don't work, I just don't believe in them. This started probably last week or so. I don't have an e-collar yet but I'm going to look into them.

Can't think of a quicker way to ruin your pup and what is worse is a closed mind. I know people who don't believe in guns, don't believe in God, don't believe in automobiles, and the one thing they all have in common is they aren't any better off because of it and in most cases are rally just missing out on the progress being made in this world.

Ezzy

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:36 pm

Wolves live in small close dens underground....a crate is a dogs den. Most dogs love their crates. Unless getting into trash is more fun..... All it takes is something as small as a piece of string or a rubber band or a myriad of other trivial household items .

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:25 pm

isonychia wrote:
Or a perforated bowel from a splinter of wood.
That's interesting, I guess they lose some instinct over years of domestication. I used to worry when my dog chewed on sticks when he was younger and used to swallow everything. People thought I was a crazy worry wort... but then again research has shown worry to be a very strong link to natural selection.

Really? I'd like to see some links on that subject.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:38 am

Sharon wrote:
isonychia wrote:
Or a perforated bowel from a splinter of wood.
That's interesting, I guess they lose some instinct over years of domestication. I used to worry when my dog chewed on sticks when he was younger and used to swallow everything. People thought I was a crazy worry wort... but then again research has shown worry to be a very strong link to natural selection.

Really? I'd like to see some links on that subject.

Me too

Pretty much there is a difference from a dog chewing branches out in the back yard versus treated and processed dry wood that furniture is made out of....

Try working with a vet for a while specially an emergency vet and get to see what dogs are brought in for.
The dogs that got in to some food and ate so much they bloated
Dogs that swallowed sharp bones or objects and perforated the bowels or blocked bowels from socks bones toys
Dogs that got into a bottle of pills or medicines again some meds are lethal to dogs
Grapes Chocolate onions xylitol(in sugarless candies and gum) Macadamia nuts

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:54 am

I've never had a dog that needed a crate and its my own personal bias about them. I'm jot saying they don't work, I just don't believe in them. This started probably last week or so. I don't have an e-collar yet but I'm going to look into them.

Well, you have one now...so get over it. If you don't crate, how do you travel with the dog? Is it free in the back seat? With your first panic stop, the dog will become a flying projectile that will either break the neck of someone in the front seats or end up crushed against the windshield. Maybe you should ask yourself if you are emotionally up to the responsibility of keeping a dog. A crate isn't punishment...its safety and eventually every dog I have owned in 40 years goes to their crate out of choice...dogs are denning animals.

It frosts my butt to see dogs going down the road at 60+mph with their heads out the window, bouncing around in the pick-up bed or circling in the back of the SUV.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:21 am

JKP wrote:
I've never had a dog that needed a crate and its my own personal bias about them. I'm jot saying they don't work, I just don't believe in them. This started probably last week or so. I don't have an e-collar yet but I'm going to look into them.
Well, you have one now...so get over it. If you don't crate, how do you travel with the dog? Is it free in the back seat? With your first panic stop, the dog will become a flying projectile that will either break the neck of someone in the front seats or end up crushed against the windshield. Maybe you should ask yourself if you are emotionally up to the responsibility of keeping a dog. A crate isn't punishment...its safety and eventually every dog I have owned in 40 years goes to their crate out of choice...dogs are denning animals.

It frosts my butt to see dogs going down the road at 60+mph with their heads out the window, bouncing around in the pick-up bed or circling in the back of the SUV.

saw one jump out of the bed of a pick up once and get hit, never want to see that again

....ruth

Thinking · Post by **Thinking** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:52 am

birddog1968 wrote:Wolves live in small close dens underground.... .

Wolves live in dens??? While their pups are whelped and raised in dens, that's the only time they live there. Don't get me wrong, I crate my dog, and am happy for it containing him, but it's not a "den".

proudag08 · Post by **proudag08** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:55 am

Cajun Casey wrote:Crate.

^
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This

isonychia · Post by **isonychia** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:12 am

The worst I'seen are some of the ranchers in CO... would you drive down a 2 lane highway with a cattle dog on the back of your FLAT BED with a FIFTH WHEELER of horses attached! Every turn that dog new to crouch under the bam... maybe they didn't even want the dog.

snips · Post by **snips** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:38 pm

Are you feeding him enough? Sounds hungry...

Garrison · Post by **Garrison** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:24 pm

isonychia wrote:The worst I'seen are some of the ranchers in CO... would you drive down a 2 lane highway with a cattle dog on the back of your FLAT BED with a FIFTH WHEELER of horses attached! Every turn that dog new to crouch under the bam... maybe they didn't even want the dog.

I believe that is considered to be part of a cattle dog field trial, if they live they get to breed. I have seen one on top of the cab at 55 mph.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:20 pm

Thinking wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:Wolves live in small close dens underground.... .
Wolves live in dens??? While their pups are whelped and raised in dens, that's the only time they live there. Don't get me wrong, I crate my dog, and am happy for it containing him, but it's not a "den".

Yea i was tired when i typed that (just drove for 2 days) ....wrong K-9 Should have said fox, but I absolutely believe introduced and used properly a dog uses its crate as a den. JMO