A pointing lab is just a lab/cross

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:41 am

What took 3 days was for to specifically ask for an FC/AFC GMPR dog. Once you did that it took me about 5 min to find that dog I gave you. You had been asking all along for a "well bred" lab. I gave you one of those too...It also took three days for us to find out that a well bred dog in your book must have:

AFC, AF, MPR, GMPR, JH, MH, SH, FTC, NAFTC, WC, WCI, WCE...

Next you'll be asking for labs that have titles like:

Housekeeper, Lawnmower, Master Sled puller...

Sorry, I thought that I answered your question, but it did not post, however it was addressed in the original post. I asked said I wanted to see some letters IN FRONT of the dogs name, if I am not mistaken JH,SH,MH, would go behind the dogs name and some of those titles would not be included, FC would go in front of the dogs name and if you could find me one of those Lawnmower dogs it would appreciated.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:46 am

I wanna see pictures of nike's dogs and what letters they have in front of their names

and BL -bootlicker
and PL-potlicker

Dont count

PointingQuail · Post by **PointingQuail** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:50 am

nikegundog wrote:
What took 3 days was for to specifically ask for an FC/AFC GMPR dog. Once you did that it took me about 5 min to find that dog I gave you. You had been asking all along for a "well bred" lab. I gave you one of those too...It also took three days for us to find out that a well bred dog in your book must have:

AFC, AF, MPR, GMPR, JH, MH, SH, FTC, NAFTC, WC, WCI, WCE...

Next you'll be asking for labs that have titles like:

Housekeeper, Lawnmower, Master Sled puller...
Sorry, I thought that I answered your question, but it did not post, however it was addressed in the original post. I asked said I wanted to see some letters IN FRONT of the dogs name, if I am not mistaken JH,SH,MH, would go behind the dogs name and some of those titles would not be included, FC would go in front of the dogs name and if you could find me one of those Lawnmower dogs it would appreciated.

My apologies. I may not always be right but I've never been wrong. The research for this post has actually been very informative for me about the PL world (especially what some think of it) I gotta warn you though...it will take me at least three days to find a dog that can mow lawns. Unless a lab with an upset stomach counts. They eat tons of grass.

PointingQuail · Post by **PointingQuail** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:54 am

birddog1968 wrote:I wanna see pictures of nike's dogs and what letters they have in front of their names

and BL -bootlicker
and PL-potlicker

Dont count

He's gotta nice pic of his dog in his avatar...It puts the SPRING in Springer. I think it may have been crossed with a lynx a few generations back.

But I wont ask him to find me a Springer with Letters in front, above, below and behind their name to prove they are good dogs...

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:47 pm

I have never figured out why so many people want to judge every breed by a pointer standard. I do not want my Brits to hunt or point like a pointer and yet we have people breeding for just that. And you see it constantly in the Shorthairs. If all of the breeds are supposed to look and act like a pointer get a pointer. They are absolutely great dogs. Now we have a Lab that points and seem many just can't stand the thought of that. But it has happened over the past 30 or 40 years and a few breeders are working to improve that area, but since they aren't as intense or stylish as most of the other breeds that have been bred as pointer for over a century they are trying to say the dogs are worthless and the breeders are just trying to make a buck. I know I have seen a lot of them in the rural areas of Iowa and I am impressed at how much they have improved over the past few years. And the good thing is it hasn't effected their retrieving abilities. For the waterfowl hunter who wants to hunt upland they are great versatile breed that lets you get by with one dog rather than two.

Would guess we would all be better off worrying about some of the breeders and dogs in our own breed than to try and run a Lab down because it points.

This thread has been a great diversion for some that are getting antsy waiting till hunting season gets here. Lets hope it happens soon so we can get back to posting experiences with some value to them instead of this witch hunt.

Ezzy

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:06 pm

Nike I find this all kind of funny since most of the comments you have made about Field Trialing have been negative,now all of a sudden Field Trial titles in case of pointing labs,those titles seem to be an
important criteria

What's up whith that

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:42 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I have never figured out why so many people want to judge every breed by a pointer standard. I do not want my Brits to hunt or point like a pointer and yet we have people breeding for just that. And you see it constantly in the Shorthairs. If all of the breeds are supposed to look and act like a pointer get a pointer. They are absolutely great dogs.
Ezzy

I have never agreed with you more. GSP, GWP, BRITTS, ETC ETC ETC aren't supposed to be pointers and shouldnt be judged to the same standard.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:57 pm

ACooper wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:I have never figured out why so many people want to judge every breed by a pointer standard. I do not want my Brits to hunt or point like a pointer and yet we have people breeding for just that. And you see it constantly in the Shorthairs. If all of the breeds are supposed to look and act like a pointer get a pointer. They are absolutely great dogs.
Ezzy
I have never agreed with you more. GSP, GWP, BRITTS, ETC ETC ETC aren't supposed to be pointers and shouldnt be judged to the same standard.

So, field trials should be breed restricted?

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:05 pm

CC right there is the problem either they are all pointing dogs or they aren't can't have it both ways,if they are going to compete against each other then the standard will be the same.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:13 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:CC right there is the problem either they are all pointing dogs or they aren't can't have it both ways,if they are going to compete against each other then the standard will be the same.

Well, that's kind of what I thought. I just got back from a trial where my dog was the lone German shorthair in a sea (well, a large puddle, anyway) of pointers and setters. When people commented favorably on him (he went birdless, but had good application), they didn't say "for a shorthair." In fact, the only time his breed was mentioned was when someone commented on how small he is compared to the dogs of the same breed they had seen and when the same fellow said he was initially a little worried that his dog wouldn't back mine if the opportunity presented because of my dog's color (dark roan). The concerned party's dog won OSD, so I told him he owed me a thanks for my little dark dog making his big white one look better.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:38 pm

None of the pointing dog venues I know of have different standards for different breeds.NSTRA,AF,AKC,NAVHDA,hunt Tests all the same standards,correct me if I'm wrong.
There are some differences in the venues but as far as I know those differences apply to all the breeds competeing in them.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:19 pm

I probably could have worded it better BUT, read it how you want it, if you choose to run your gsps against pointers good for you, but a gsp was never meant to be the same dog as a pointer.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:25 pm

This also makes me think of all the times when people with close working pointing dogs get the "why dont you just get a lab if you want a dog that close" comment, which in turn always makes me the think of the folks who want big running contenintals "why dont you just get a pointer?"

Okay now this could get good!

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:33 pm

Andy so you think GSPS should be close working dogs? You know there are close working pointers just like there are big running GSPS.That's the reason they have GD,SD,& AA stakes.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:44 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Andy so you think GSPS should be close working dogs? You know there are close working pointers just like there are big running GSPS.That's the reason they have GD,SD,& AA stakes.

No Ted I dont think that GSPs should be stictly a close working breed, but I also dont think they should be expeceted to run at extreme ranges like some of the pointers and setters do. JMO

Its more about what makes you happy, and a dog that is usable in 95% of the scenarios we hunt make me happy, thats what we have cause thats what we like. But then again we are kind of nutty and hunt pointing dogs in stubble A LOT! lol

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:03 pm

Here again I say a dog can do both Star if I'm on foot will very seldom ever get out of my sight but if you get on a horse you won't see her very often unless you are in a BIG OPEN area or she's on point.
You know her first trial placement was in a walking trial the only one she ever ran in all HB before & since!
2nd 18 WGD stake.

A friend of mine use to have a pointer & we hunted Phez together alot,she never ran any bigger then my GSPS who were from HB Trial stock but only hunted.
If had trialed them they would have run bigger from HB just that simple.They have enough brains & intelligence to know the difference & that's my opinion.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:09 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Here again I say a dog can do both Star if I'm on foot will very seldom ever get out of my sight but if you get on a horse you won't see her very often unless you are in a BIG OPEN area or she's on point.
You know her first trial placement was in a walking trial the only one she ever ran in all HB before & since!
2nd 18 WGD stake.

A friend of mine use to have a pointer & we hunted Phez together alot,she never ran any bigger then my GSPS who were from HB Trial stock but only hunted.
If had trialed them they would have run bigger from HB just that simple.They have enough brains & intelligence to know the difference & that's my opinion.

You are right Ted, they learn the difference. And in my opinion they do it better than most pointers. That is whats nice about our continental breeds that were developed to fill a different niche than the pointer had aready laid claim to.

Ezzy

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:13 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Here again I say a dog can do both Star if I'm on foot will very seldom ever get out of my sight but if you get on a horse you won't see her very often unless you are in a BIG OPEN area or she's on point.
You know her first trial placement was in a walking trial the only one she ever ran in all HB before & since!
2nd 18 WGD stake.

A friend of mine use to have a pointer & we hunted Phez together alot,she never ran any bigger then my GSPS who were from HB Trial stock but only hunted.
If had trialed them they would have run bigger from HB just that simple.They have enough brains & intelligence to know the difference & that's my opinion.

I agree 100% that a good one can and will do both, and I'm sure Star is a good one.

Why do you have to bring logic into this and ruin a good discussion?

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:17 pm

Oh boy Here we goooooo

Pointers not smart enough to adjust????? Noooo say it ain't so !

I got a few that surely do.....

And that's no Joke !

Lets really get this fire goin....dont ya think the DK blood in the US is better at killin possums then pointing birds in big country????

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:47 pm

All I'm saying if the breeds compete against each other the standard will be the same.Chris has a pointer on his string & she places more times then not,because she fits the GD standard not AA.
Like I have said before dogs are smarter then we give then credit for,I hear all the time pointers don't retrieve they don't like water etc of course they don't if they are never asked to retrieve or swim but most those that are ask will.
Every predominatley white GSP is accussed of having pointer blood & some do I'm sure but they don't have to be white to own that.Solid Lvrs & White can come from the same parents.That's why we have DNA to help stop anymore of it.I think if dogs of any breed were only ask to compete against their breed only it would be boring like this board sometimes.

The dogs I have now come from some of the strongest FT lines in the country but if I wanted to shoot fur over them,have them retrieve ducks, etc they could & would so wether they are versatile or not depends on their owners & what we teach them.Now lets hear the BOOS!!

Oh and just to keep this on topic Labs were bred to fill the niche that the pointers weren't RETREVING!!

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:48 pm

I felt compelled to make a silly statement that would come close to Nike's stirring the soup posts

and as for pointers that don't retrieve I had a GSP fella on the preserve last year, he sailed a phez way over an adjoining patch of thick woods.....I said "let that one go (it was obviously gonna be dead on arrival ) will round him up on the way back"

Fella looked stunned- next bird he killed dead and Jake scooped up the bird came around to heel and delivered the bird. Stunned GSP man said "WOW, your pointer retrieves" I said "of course he does" then he asked why i didnt let him try and retrieve that sailed bird. I said you'll see.

Upon hunting around the field cleaning up , on the way back I lined up on where I marked the bird going in the woods, it sailed at least 150 yards back. I sent jake on Dead/Fetch. We waited a bit and he asked if I thought that dog would find that bird....then jake came into view with a nice Rooster delivered to hand. He even more amazed now , said "i would have never thought a pointer would retrieve much less do a blind retrieve". I think he might have been hoping a pointer wouldn't make such a nice retrieve.....I love that dog.

They'll do what you condition em to do Lab GSP Pointer Britt....it don't matter.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:59 pm

birddog1968 wrote:They'll do what you condition em to do Lab GSP Pointer Britt....it don't matter.

You are absolutely right.

Ezzy

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:01 pm

AGREED!!

oakcreek · Post by **oakcreek** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:23 pm

You are wrong again, and most likely should stop acting like you know anything about pls or lab kennels in general.

Candlewood kennels only breeds black dogs, do you feel the same way about them? They have produced some of the all time greats. Jazztime dogs are all black as well, one of the best field trial breeders in the nation.

Gator Pt has made it a point to dedicate a life to building a chocolate line of dogs that do what they want them to, and are what a dog of any color should be. Did Whele have it wrong too? Is it "just breeding for color" when they are top field trial and hunt test dogs. Or just developing a line of dogs like you want them

Nike, frankly it is your incompatence on the subject that "makes me sick", as you stated.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:53 pm

oakcreek wrote:You are wrong again, and most likely should stop acting like you know anything about pls or lab kennels in general.

Candlewood kennels only breeds black dogs, do you feel the same way about them? They have produced some of the all time greats. Jazztime dogs are all black as well, one of the best field trial breeders in the nation.

Gator Pt has made it a point to dedicate a life to building a chocolate line of dogs that do what they want them to, and are what a dog of any color should be. Did Whele have it wrong too? Is it "just breeding for color" when they are top field trial and hunt test dogs. Or just developing a line of dogs like you want them

Nike, frankly it is your incompatence on the subject that "makes me sick", as you stated.

Sorry, Oakcreek didn't mean to get your panties in a bunch, just trying to get a little fire in a thread, its been awhile. I was full of "bleep" about 90% of the thread, however don't care much for chocolate breeders. Pointing Quail showed their are a bunch of guys trying to breed some pretty good Pointing Labs, glad to see that. Kelly, next game you're going to have to give me the point spread.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:26 am

ezzy333 wrote:I have never figured out why so many people want to judge every breed by a pointer standard. I do not want my Brits to hunt or point like a pointer and yet we have people breeding for just that. And you see it constantly in the Shorthairs. If all of the breeds are supposed to look and act like a pointer get a pointer. They are absolutely great dogs. Now we have a Lab that points and seem many just can't stand the thought of that. But it has happened over the past 30 or 40 years and a few breeders are working to improve that area, but since they aren't as intense or stylish as most of the other breeds that have been bred as pointer for over a century they are trying to say the dogs are worthless and the breeders are just trying to make a buck. I know I have seen a lot of them in the rural areas of Iowa and I am impressed at how much they have improved over the past few years. And the good thing is it hasn't effected their retrieving abilities. For the waterfowl hunter who wants to hunt upland they are great versatile breed that lets you get by with one dog rather than two.

Would guess we would all be better off worrying about some of the breeders and dogs in our own breed than to try and run a Lab down because it points.

This thread has been a great diversion for some that are getting antsy waiting till hunting season gets here. Lets hope it happens soon so we can get back to posting experiences with some value to them instead of this witch hunt.

Ezzy

I couldn't agree more Ezzy. The reason so many people judge their dogs to a pointer standard is easy. Field Trials. EPs have literally been bred to win FTs. They have not been bred for hunting as much as other breeds. I'm not saying some pointers aren't fantastic hunters, because they are, but I have never seen a breed that is bred for contest purposes more. How many DDs/PPs/Britts/Vizslas/etc. that have ads for dogs that say "big running dog" or "FT prospect, big runner"? Not many, if any. Now look at pointers, you see it all the time. The pointer of today is bred to win games.
Hunt with a DD, PP, EB, etc. that are bred for hunting only, and the cooperation difference is huge. Pointers are bred to run to the front of a horseback hunter. Not ALL of them, but MANY.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:30 am

Holy "bleep" the old Birddogz is back, this is about to get interesting.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:34 am

birddog1968 wrote:I felt compelled to make a silly statement that would come close to Nike's stirring the soup posts

and as for pointers that don't retrieve I had a GSP fella on the preserve last year, he sailed a phez way over an adjoining patch of thick woods.....I said "let that one go (it was obviously gonna be dead on arrival ) will round him up on the way back"

Fella looked stunned- next bird he killed dead and Jake scooped up the bird came around to heel and delivered the bird. Stunned GSP man said "WOW, your pointer retrieves" I said "of course he does" then he asked why i didnt let him try and retrieve that sailed bird. I said you'll see.

Upon hunting around the field cleaning up , on the way back I lined up on where I marked the bird going in the woods, it sailed at least 150 yards back. I sent jake on Dead/Fetch. We waited a bit and he asked if I thought that dog would find that bird....then jake came into view with a nice Rooster delivered to hand. He even more amazed now , said "i would have never thought a pointer would retrieve much less do a blind retrieve". I think he might have been hoping a pointer wouldn't make such a nice retrieve.....I love that dog.

They'll do what you condition em to do Lab GSP Pointer Britt....it don't matter.

Try that same scenario with a sailed wild rooster. Runner. I have never scene an EP that trails well. Not saying there aren't any, but my DD does it with out being conditioned to do it.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:40 am

The fact was the bird was dead in the air, after it was hit its head was down and wings never flapped again......would have been same result with a wild rooster.

You seem to think all Pen reared phez wont run or show any adeptness at evading a dog once they are wounded....your wrong there. If that bird wasn't dead in the air I would have been on his behind.....Dakota Phez are not the king of the bird world, they are pretty darn easy to hunt and bag as is evidenced by all the newbies that go there and happily shoot limits of roosters.

I would also propose that if you've been winging phez and the dog has been hunting them up and retrieving them you have in fact been conditioning the dog to do that. What we allow or have them do is what we condition them to do. After all that was the point of my post, not that my dogs great but that he breaks silly sterotypes by conditioning just like any other breed breaks their sterotypes in the same way. Pointers retrieve, gsp's swim, labs point.........

gspguy · Post by **gspguy** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:21 pm

I'm sure there are some very nice labs that point that are purebred labs. In fact I'm certain of it. I also am certain that some breeders have stirred a little pointing dog into their program. I saw one - from a breeder mentioned in this thread - that I'm certain was not purebred. I saw this dog at Gamefair in Anoka, MN a few years back. It did not have lab style ears - more houndy - and it had melanistic spots on it. It's coat was not quite like a lab coat either. That dog had some sort of pointing dog in it's lineage close up. But he was on display at the booth for this guy's kennel.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:37 pm

I wasn't trying to bust your chops, sorry if that is how it came across. I have hunted with pointers that retrieved as well as any dog. What I have never seen, is a pointer do is trail ground scent on a wounded rooster. Have you trained your pointer to do that? I'm curious, not challenging you.

As for pheasants being easy, that isn't the case at all. Limits don't mean that the quarry is "easy". It means they are plentiful. If I hunted sharpies, quail, ruffed grouse, etc., and I jumped 300 birds, I could shoot far more birds of those species than I could wild, late season ringnecks. I know of no other game bird that consistently runs further, and is warier. How many other game birds take off at the mere shutting of a truck door at 300 yards? The reason limits are not uncommon is because of the amount of pheasants. If you went by how many birds get away from pointing dogs as a percentage, I would say late season pheasants would destroy most other game birds. Early season birds are stupid for 2-3 days, and the first good snow provides easy gunning normally. After that they get tougher. Limits are the norm, but that doesn't mean that more phez get away than get pointed to flush.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:48 pm

No I haven't taught mine that, but both adults will run with their nose on the ground after wounded birds, even the new pup ground tracked a running unwounded phez yesterday, before she pinned it between a weedy patch of fence line and a lake.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:00 pm

HEY Craig ! how ya been? Been to the grasslands yet? Im down in Northern Nebraska not far from Rosebud.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:32 pm

birddog1968 wrote:No I haven't taught mine that, but both adults will run with their nose on the ground after wounded birds, even the new pup ground tracked a running unwounded phez yesterday, before she pinned it between a weedy patch of fence line and a lake.

Nice. How are the prairie grouse populations in the sandhills this year? In NoDak the sharpies are way down.

Willie Hunter · Post by **Willie Hunter** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:31 pm

I'm not going to read all of the prior posts, but I can tell Jay & Val Walker @ Trieven Kennels can tell the real story.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:06 pm

Birddogz wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:No I haven't taught mine that, but both adults will run with their nose on the ground after wounded birds, even the new pup ground tracked a running unwounded phez yesterday, before she pinned it between a weedy patch of fence line and a lake.
Nice. How are the prairie grouse populations in the sandhills this year? In NoDak the sharpies are way down.

Plenty of grouse around, there were some patchy die offs from a hail storm in July but I'm not having trouble moving birds......
I think they may have had them listed as slightly down in the North Central region here.

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:00 pm

birddog1968 wrote:

Is that Barry Bonds dog?

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:48 pm

birdogg42 wrote:
Is that Barry Bonds dog?

Maybe, my buddies kids call him The Snow Man

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:28 pm

When u get tired of him just send him to Missouri!

Mike

northern cajun · Post by **northern cajun** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:55 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Andy so you think GSPS should be close working dogs? You know there are close working pointers just like there are big running GSPS.That's the reason they have GD,SD,& AA stakes.

+2

jasonw99 · Post by **jasonw99** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:53 am

sckwest1 wrote:wasn't there a post on here recently about a contest between pointing labs and other pointing breeds using nstra rules?

the answer to this is NO. there was no judging on the find or retrieve. it was one point per find one point per retrieve. normal nstra u would run the faster dog in front of the slower one. this was a fun trial and they just split the field. so it wasn't a measure of anything really. there was a few who pointed staunchly and most just stood there. I don't think anyone disputes that a lab can find birds. but I think u can teach any dog to stand when he smells a bird. that's not pointing in my book.

and if someone wants to use this competition as a measurement then hmm the pointing breed had more retrieves sooo they are a better retriever?

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:38 am

live4point wrote:A lot of people get all wound up in fancy pedigrees that don't mean squat.Those dogs with titles before their name that got them playing games going around pointing pen raised birds don't impress me at all,I've seen a many a dog with these fancy bloodlines that had won contest that couldn't find a wild bird to save their soul. If a pointing lab does the job on wild birds,he's a bird dog to me,I'll take a meat dog any day,I like to eat birds,not papers.

That's why you do your homework and buy pups out of dogs that have won wild bird trials.

jimbo&rooster · Post by **jimbo&rooster** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:51 am

Speaking of pointing labs a lady who just bought the old farm house down the road has a silver lab........ Looks like their might be some Weim in the wood pile, I bet he'll point....

JIm

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:10 am

Depends on the WEIM!

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:19 am

ElhewPointer wrote:
live4point wrote:A lot of people get all wound up in fancy pedigrees that don't mean squat.Those dogs with titles before their name that got them playing games going around pointing pen raised birds don't impress me at all,I've seen a many a dog with these fancy bloodlines that had won contest that couldn't find a wild bird to save their soul. If a pointing lab does the job on wild birds,he's a bird dog to me,I'll take a meat dog any day,I like to eat birds,not papers.
That's why you do your homework and buy pups out of dogs that have won wild bird trials.

You don't need to buy from a litter thats won prairie championships, all you need to do is develop almost any pup on wild birds......Those eastern thro down trial dogs would make good wild bird dogs if thats what they were developed to do......a handful of field trialers don't hold the magic keys to wild bird dogs

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:39 am

I'm from the East kinda like the dead sea,should be called the dead East.When I started we had wild quail out the wahzoo,I did very little training then just went hunting & had pretty good success.
There are not enough wild birds here to train on anymore if you have a dog that is still hunting hard at the end of the day after not finding any birds,you probably have a bird dog.Kinda hard for us to drive 500 to 1000 miles everytime we want to work some birds.
I have sold a few dogs to the west & if you think they can't find wild birds,let me know & I'll put you in touch with a few owners.If you have a good wild bird dog bring him East & hunt some areas that have a FEW wild birds,that will be the real test to find them where there aren't any.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:10 am

I have never seen a birddog who needed the life history of a bird before it would point it; That is absolutely silly to say a dog is better if it can find a wild bird. Dogs find birds, dog points bird, the rest is up to you.

Ezzy

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:38 am

birddog1968 wrote:
birdogg42 wrote:
Is that Barry Bonds dog?

Maybe, my buddies kids call him The Snow Man

That is one good looking dog! Is it a Miller?

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:32 pm

ezzy333 wrote:That is absolutely silly to say a dog is better if it can find a wild bird.
Ezzy

Are you kidding me?

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:48 pm

DonF wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:
birdogg42 wrote:
Is that Barry Bonds dog?

Maybe, my buddies kids call him The Snow Man
That is one good looking dog! Is it a Miller?

You can check out his ped link below, to oversimplify he's miller top / Elhew bottom.