A pointing lab is just a lab/cross

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Did a little looking for a well bred Pointing Lab today and came to the conclusion their is no such a dog. The Labrador Retriever has been the most popular bred dog according to the AKC for about the last 50 years, so you would think their would be at least 20 well bred pointing lab breeders out there but I can't find one. So I am now in the camp of, a PL is simple a Wessel Pointer, cross bred, mutt, whatever you want to call them. If you think I'm wrong, PROVE I'm wrong show one with some letters in front of their name.

Still can't believe the Vikings lost to the Lions

tn red · Post by **tn red** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:16 pm

Hold on let me get some popcorn,this should be good

SOO you really like the lions too

dutchwest · Post by **dutchwest** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:31 pm

So the pointing labs don't perform as well?

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:35 pm

oh boy I can't wait for this Fight !!!

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:02 pm

Bwahahaha

nice try, you might of thought out the wording better

That hook is soooo BIG i don't know if anyone will bite

Munster · Post by **Munster** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:21 pm

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:24 pm

What's wrong with letters behind the name?

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:30 pm

Pointing labs are like unicorns....

sckwest1 · Post by **sckwest1** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:56 pm

wasn't there a post on here recently about a contest between pointing labs and other pointing breeds using nstra rules?

KellyM87 · Post by **KellyM87** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:07 pm

Yes, it was similar to NSTRA rules held in Mi. Pointind dog challenge it was called.

stlgsp · Post by **stlgsp** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:12 pm

Sorry, don't know how to set up the link but here's some people I'm sure would love to hear your thoughts, give them a call or shoot them an email:
http://www.americanpointinglab.com/site ... fault.aspx

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:23 pm

Lots of PL breeders in OK??? Weird only know one person who owns one, and he isnt in OK.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:39 pm

I went ahead and bumped the post about the pointing dog challenge to the top. Good job on stirring the pot Nike! I have been pretty bored here at work lately.

QuillGordon · Post by **QuillGordon** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:41 pm

Don't know about this pointing Lab. I've cleaned house behind the flushing variety though. Good luck with this. I dunno that bringin down another mans/womans breed accomplishes much however. Guys that like pointing Labs are already sold. I might be too if I ever get a chance to witness one or maybe not. To me it seems like the niche has already been filled

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:41 pm

stlgsp wrote:Sorry, don't know how to set up the link but here's some people I'm sure would love to hear your thoughts, give them a call or shoot them an email:
http://www.americanpointinglab.com/site ... fault.aspx

I clicked on a bunch of those kennels and quite frankly most LabraDoodles have better bloodlines. If you know of anyone that puts out a quality dog let me know.

PointingQuail · Post by **PointingQuail** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:44 pm

nikegundog wrote:
stlgsp wrote:Sorry, don't know how to set up the link but here's some people I'm sure would love to hear your thoughts, give them a call or shoot them an email:
http://www.americanpointinglab.com/site ... fault.aspx
I clicked on a bunch of those kennels and quite frankly most LabraDoodles have better bloodlines. If you know of anyone that puts out a quality dog let me know.

What is your problem?

There was a fair contest between PLs and other pointing breeds and the PLs won.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:47 pm

I'm not arguing that they can compete with pointers, my point was they aren't bred good enough to be considered a Lab.

PointingQuail · Post by **PointingQuail** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:50 pm

nikegundog wrote:I'm not arguing that they can compete with pointers, my point was they aren't bred good enough to be considered a Lab.

Im not sure I understand..."not bred good enough". What does that mean? Could you elaborate?

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:53 pm

nikegundog wrote:I'm not arguing that they can compete with pointers, my point was they aren't bred good enough to be considered a Lab.

IF your serious ??? thats nonsense. sorry JMHO.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:55 pm

I dont know what you mean by bred good enough Please explain

Dashin Gun Dogs · Post by **Dashin Gun Dogs** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:17 pm

As far as pointing goes, I can get a German Shepherd or an Aussie to point with some training. Just because a dog points, doesn't mean it is a POINTING DOG.

So if you mix a Poodle and a Pointing Lab. Is that a Pointing Labradoodle which is hypoallergenic?

I would take a GSP, Brittany, Pointer, or Setter anyday. I will keep letting my lab retrieve ducks, and I don't have to brake him from pointing those.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:28 pm

The only lab cross that ive seen that has suckered a lot of people in is going to be a silver lab. And lots of people mistake british labs as mixed or poorly bred. most often fox red british labs.
I have never owned a labrador from pointing lab lines until I do I will not pass any judgement as far as them having or not having strong pointing instincts. I have had a british lab crank a nice point once, I will also mention I missed the pheasant that flushed while i was looking at him thinking "what the heck is this dog doing". I still have him and he hasnt done it since.
PS; if any of the pointing lab crowd would like to give me a pointing lineage labrador I would be willing to be an unbiased "tester" and give an honest feedback of my experiences!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:51 pm

Always thought it was a myth, until one of the guys in my hunt club ended up with two. They will retrieve anything and will point and hold well. I get the whole bloodline thing. It is great to look at a 5 gen pedigree and love that your dog comes from great bloodlines. All those champions. Awesome feeling. been behind great dogs that had s%$t for blood line and out performed what some people would call promising dogs with some of the best bloodlines. If the dog can do everything you expect and more does it really matter?

By the way those great bloodlines, started with a dog that no one knew anything about. I have a pup that comes from famous names four and five gens back. such as: Elhew Crazy Horse, Fiddlin' Rocky Boy, Additions Go Boy, Bayou Teche Additions, but how much of that is really in the make up of my dog? Does it really mean my dog will be something special in the trials? In the past two gens there is alot of Poker Straight. Some would say Adrian Jackson has a great Kennel Has plenty of champs to back it up. Is it because of what he has done with his breeding program or just that he had dogs at 4 gens that were good?

Find a breeder that has produced great dogs in the past two gens. Talk to people that actually have his dogs, get video as proof. if the dog performs and does everything you want, does 5 gens even matter? Everyone has seen two great dogs that are champions, come from great bloodlines with champions throughout, and still have a few pups that are good meat dogs but nothing more. JMO.

Joe

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:54 pm

Honestly the whole pointing lab thing is kind of a Joke to me it seems as though the lab community is all ways trying to find something to make them more rare and desirable than other quality well bred dogs, I have seen at least 4 "silver" lab puppys since I've been at my new Job most of then looked just like weims the one Owner told me that 2 yellow labs make a silver lab hahahahaha bull crap !

PointingQuail · Post by **PointingQuail** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:59 pm

Forget bloodlines. This is what I'm after. Here is my pup at 7 months and I didn't teach him this. If this isn't a pointing dog...then I don't want a pointing dog, or anything else you've got!

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:01 pm

whats he pointing ? a tennis ball or a Frisbee ?

True "pointing" dogs have been selectively breed pretty much since the invention of gun powder and wing shooting and probably before to point and hold game for its master, labs were bred to mark and retrieve fallen birds, can you train any old mutt to stop on the scent of a bird and hold it yes is it as instinctive and natural and beautiful as a well bred pointing dog heck no ! My cousin owns a Pointing lab does she point hold a retrieve birds for him yes but she was taught to do it not bred to do it he had to have her trained to do it and she was out "pointing" stock. load of crap if you ask me.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:05 pm

gittrdonebritts wrote:whats he pointing ? a tennis ball or a Frisbee ?

May I ask what difference does it make? Yhe dog is pointing just like the pictures we see of a lot of breeds and don't think I ever heard that asked except for the ones with the head crank.

Ezzy

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:05 pm

yellow and yellow make silver? I really have to go back and look at my colors. I am way behind!!!

PointingQuail · Post by **PointingQuail** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:06 pm

gittrdonebritts wrote:whats he pointing ? a tennis ball or a Frisbee ?

A pigeon on a string...but thanks for your input. It was very helpful.

You can actually see the string in the bottom left corner...

PointingQuail · Post by **PointingQuail** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:07 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
gittrdonebritts wrote:whats he pointing ? a tennis ball or a Frisbee ?
May I ask what difference does it make? Yhe dog is pointing just like the pictures we see of a lot of breeds and don't think I ever heard that asked except for the ones with the head crank.

Ezzy

Agreed

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:08 pm

PointingQuail wrote:Forget bloodlines. This is what I'm after. Here is my pup at 7 months and I didn't teach him this. If this isn't a pointing dog...then I don't want a pointing dog, or anything else you've got!

Great pic.

PkerStr8Tail · Post by **PkerStr8Tail** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:12 pm

PointingQuail wrote:Forget bloodlines. This is what I'm after. Here is my pup at 7 months and I didn't teach him this. If this isn't a pointing dog...then I don't want a pointing dog, or anything else you've got!

With all due respect, if I was evaluating that against a pointing dog standard, it wouldn't pass. If your goal is meat hunting and the only qualifier as a pointing dog is a bird find which involves standing there, much like that challenge apparently was judged, then any dog that stops could be considered a pointing dog. A true pointing dog is judged on more than just finding a bird and standing. To each his own. If you love em, more power to you, but lets not get carried away saying these live up to a pointing dog standard that a pointing dog would be judged against.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:14 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
gittrdonebritts wrote:whats he pointing ? a tennis ball or a Frisbee ?
May I ask what difference does it make? Yhe dog is pointing just like the pictures we see of a lot of breeds and don't think I ever heard that asked except for the ones with the head crank.

Ezzy

First off Ezzy it was a retrieving joke cause its a Labrador Retriever and dogs like to retrieve things like tennis balls and frisbee's unless the changed the Classification in AKC and they are Now Pointing Labrador Retrievers ?

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:17 pm

Growing up, never saw any pointing labs, but saw several hunters that would use pointers to point and labs to fetch the shot birds. It was a great mix. So, wouldn't hurt to have a dog that could do both. No matter what, won't give up my pointer. Just found lab guys to hunt with. Once you go that route, you have the best of both worlds, and alot less food and vet bills.

Joe

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:26 pm

jcbuttry8 wrote:Always thought it was a myth, until one of the guys in my hunt club ended up with two. They will retrieve anything and will point and hold well. I get the whole bloodline thing. It is great to look at a 5 gen pedigree and love that your dog comes from great bloodlines. All those champions. Awesome feeling. been behind great dogs that had s%$t for blood line and out performed what some people would call promising dogs with some of the best bloodlines. If the dog can do everything you expect and more does it really matter?

By the way those great bloodlines, started with a dog that no one knew anything about. I have a pup that comes from famous names four and five gens back. such as: Elhew Crazy Horse, Fiddlin' Rocky Boy, Additions Go Boy, Bayou Teche Additions, but how much of that is really in the make up of my dog? Does it really mean my dog will be something special in the trials? In the past two gens there is alot of Poker Straight. Some would say Adrian Jackson has a great Kennel Has plenty of champs to back it up. Is it because of what he has done with his breeding program or just that he had dogs at 4 gens that were good?

Find a breeder that has produced great dogs in the past two gens. Talk to people that actually have his dogs, get video as proof. if the dog performs and does everything you want, does 5 gens even matter? Everyone has seen two great dogs that are champions, come from great bloodlines with champions throughout, and still have a few pups that are good meat dogs but nothing more. JMO.

Joe

I'm just saying about 95% of them you can trace back to 1 kennel in SD, and you can't tell me that guy didn't have a pointer in the woodshed.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:29 pm

it was probably a solid black or liver GSP or both

PointingQuail · Post by **PointingQuail** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:35 pm

gittrdonebritts wrote:it was probably a solid black or liver GSP or both

They must have bred all of the pointer out of him.

Because after that picture was taken we flushed and shot that bird and he did this...

tn red · Post by **tn red** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:41 pm

PointingQuail wrote:
gittrdonebritts wrote:it was probably a solid black or liver GSP or both
They must have bred all of the pointer out of him. Because after that picture was taken we flushed and shot that bird and he did this...

So now pointers dont retreive as well as PL either?

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:42 pm

He sat down ? not like a Pointer at all

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:00 pm

The pot is being stirred and ya'll are in the soup

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:01 pm

I have a pointing lab also, see he even has the same crooked tail...

PointingQuail · Post by **PointingQuail** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:09 pm

birddog1968 wrote:The pot is being stirred and ya'll are in the soup

Yes we are, but gundog soup is good soup.

PointingQuail · Post by **PointingQuail** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:12 pm

ACooper wrote:I have a pointing lab also, see he even has the same crooked tail...

Haha...My dogs tail isn't crooked. He's just so good he was pointing two birds at once. He was just telling me:

"Hey boss, I got one locked down here at 12:00 oclock and theres another you should keep your eye on at my 3:00 oclock....

Dashin Gun Dogs · Post by **Dashin Gun Dogs** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:58 pm

If I catch a dog sitting in the field while there are birds to be found,....... well lets just say he gets to "re-home".
The lab is setting there wondering "why the pointer is hunting so hard, when mom and dad just tie a string to my birds".

I may breed my Brittanys or my Pointer to some labs in the next few weeks. I want to see if I can get a pointing lab. Probably have to FF if there is too much Pointer in there.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:58 am

ACooper wrote:I have a pointing lab also, see he even has the same crooked tail...

The tail may be a little crooked but I don't think you will find many labs that look that good on point.

Charlie

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:20 am

jcbuttry8 wrote:Always thought it was a myth, until one of the guys in my hunt club ended up with two. They will retrieve anything and will point and hold well. I get the whole bloodline thing. It is great to look at a 5 gen pedigree and love that your dog comes from great bloodlines. All those champions. Awesome feeling. been behind great dogs that had s%$t for blood line and out performed what some people would call promising dogs with some of the best bloodlines. If the dog can do everything you expect and more does it really matter?

By the way those great bloodlines, started with a dog that no one knew anything about. I have a pup that comes from famous names four and five gens back. such as: Elhew Crazy Horse, Fiddlin' Rocky Boy, Additions Go Boy, Bayou Teche Additions, but how much of that is really in the make up of my dog? Does it really mean my dog will be something special in the trials? In the past two gens there is alot of Poker Straight. Some would say Adrian Jackson has a great Kennel Has plenty of champs to back it up. Is it because of what he has done with his breeding program or just that he had dogs at 4 gens that were good?

Find a breeder that has produced great dogs in the past two gens. Talk to people that actually have his dogs, get video as proof. if the dog performs and does everything you want, does 5 gens even matter? Everyone has seen two great dogs that are champions, come from great bloodlines with champions throughout, and still have a few pups that are good meat dogs but nothing more. JMO.

Joe

Joe, your last paragraph hit the nail on the head, 5 gens doesn't matter, but I defy anyone to find a nicely titled PL that has 2 generations of the same. I asked the question yesterday, and I will do the same thing today, out of the hundreds of pointing labs kennels out there find one that puts out a PL that can also function as a retriever.

GrayDawg · Post by **GrayDawg** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:38 am

Take a look at the standards that the APLA uses when testing Labs who point.
Specifically- note how long the dog is required to *point* in order to receive an acceptable score
in the higher level PL tests.

Don't get me wrong- if you have a Lab who points and you're happy with them- all the power to you......
go take your dog afield & most importantly GO HAVE FUN !!

I just think all this marketing whiz-bang regarding PLs is somewhat comical.
15+ years ago, I spoke to the self-proclaimed "only breeder of PLs in America" over the phone- his initials
were "SW". After about 5 minutes, I realized that he was simply a marketing guy- supplying those with lots of
money to burn, with the next new percieved "mousetrap".

Like I said- GO TO THE TESTING STANDARD for the APLA- specific for their higher level tests. Look how long
the dog is required to *point*, in order to receive a passing score. That will be the beginning, middle & END
of this discussion for most folks who are used to shooting behind/handling broke pointing dogs.

I'll save you all the trouble- here's the "TEST RULES" for the MASTER & GRAND MASTER levels
scroll down to the topic of POINT:

http://www.americanpointinglab.com/site ... fault.aspx

Rob

stevoman · Post by **stevoman** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:51 am

This is the first time i have ever heard that this particular breed exists. im shocked.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:59 am

stevoman wrote:This is the first time i have ever heard that this particular breed exists. im shocked.

Its been crazy over the last 10 years, pointing labs kennels are everywhere, $1000 a pup for dogs that don't have a title in 3 generations.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:06 am

birddogger wrote:
ACooper wrote:I have a pointing lab also, see he even has the same crooked tail...
The tail may be a little crooked but I don't think you will find many labs that look that good on point.

Charlie

Thanks Charlie