dog shedding

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mister2
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dog shedding

Post by mister2 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:19 am

I have an 8mo old GSP that is shedding like crazy. To the point where it's so thin you can actually see his skin on his back. The skin is also dry and flaky too which I'm guessing is because of the weekly baths I give him because he stinks like crazy. Is it normal to be shedding like that? Shouldn't he be developing a winter coat? If not, he's gonna be one sorry dog when winter hits. I am in central NY and it's getting cold now to the point where he'll shiver and teeth chatter. He rides in a kennel in the back of the truck and I know he's miserable back there. How do you all deal with transporting dogs in the winter?

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Re: dog shedding

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:31 am

Take him to a vet. He has a problem.
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Re: dog shedding

Post by shags » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:41 am

Can you feel stubbly little new hairs coming in when you run your hand against the hair growth on his back? When my young setter was that age, his hair came out in gobs (in the autumn) but I could feel the new lil stubs growing in.

In the winter my dogs travel in closed-sided crates with bedding under a truck cap. Or if only one or two are coming with, they ride in the back seat :D

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Re: dog shedding

Post by DonF » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:51 am

You give your dogs a weekly bath? I suspect that has something to do with the dry skin. Is the hair still on the dog sort of brittle?
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Re: dog shedding

Post by bumper52 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:24 pm

yes...weekly baths are a bad idea...but because of the odor your dog probably has another issue going on....dermatitis maybe. Get him to the vet....they can do a scraping and determine proper treatment.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by mister2 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:57 pm

It has been like this for about a month now. The hair is not brittle and no new stubs growing in. His coat is very uniform and very shiny, he's a solid liver. The coat is not blotchy, there are no patches of exposed skin or bald spots or anything. It just looks like it's not very dense, just enough so you can see his skin from an angle from the back. The hair on his back is soft, almost like on the head. If I grab the coat with one hand you can easily see the skin beneath the hair. I've never owned a dog so not sure if this is normal but my brother has his littermate and his dog does not have the same coat like mine. His dog is also outside most of the time and has a thicker and coarser coat.

Also on the underside, even at 10wks old, you could see there was very little hair and see his nipples. Still can see his nipples even now and I'm guessing that's why people mistake him for a female even though you can clearly see his male parts. He is unneutered.

At first I was suspecting mange or something like that. How long does it take to notice mange in dogs?

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Re: dog shedding

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:11 pm

He could have generalized demodectitis, congenital bilateral alopecia, or lupoid dematosis (rare) based on your description. The smell could be demodex, staph (including MRSA) or fungus. Sarcoptic mange causes itching.

Could also be exocrine pancreatic insufficiency or hypothyroidism. Or environmental.
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Re: dog shedding

Post by mcbosco » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:29 pm

This dog should have been seen by a vet a long long time ago.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by Sharon » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:59 pm

mister2 wrote:It has been like this for about a month now. The hair is not brittle and no new stubs growing in. His coat is very uniform and very shiny, he's a solid liver. The coat is not blotchy, there are no patches of exposed skin or bald spots or anything. It just looks like it's not very dense, just enough so you can see his skin from an angle from the back. The hair on his back is soft, almost like on the head. If I grab the coat with one hand you can easily see the skin beneath the hair. I've never owned a dog so not sure if this is normal but my brother has his littermate and his dog does not have the same coat like mine. His dog is also outside most of the time and has a thicker and coarser coat.

Also on the underside, even at 10wks old, you could see there was very little hair and see his nipples. Still can see his nipples even now and I'm guessing that's why people mistake him for a female even though you can clearly see his male parts. He is unneutered.

At first I was suspecting mange or something like that. How long does it take to notice mange in dogs?
Google: " dogs and mange or dogs and mites."
Mange starts with mite bites - redness , very itchy , dog scratches a lot, and the hair loss starts around the eyes normally.
A skin scrape at the vets will usually tell you if mites are present.

Bayer produces a pesticides + flea , oil for dogs that is very effective.
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Re: dog shedding

Post by mister2 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:45 pm

Pics of my dog. Sorry for the poor pics. My kid dropped my camera and broke it so this is from my phone. He looks fine and acts normal otherwise. He scratches his collar once in a while but I don't think that's anything because he's been doing that since 10wks old. I'll try to get better pictures soon.
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Re: dog shedding

Post by mister2 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:49 pm

another picture. all taken today. sorry for the poor lighting. It's been dark and rainy for a long time now.
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Re: dog shedding

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:16 pm

Well, it looks like poor coat. Try giving him an Omega 3-6-9 and wiping him down with original Listerine for the dander. I'd still suggest a lipid check for pancreas function. I have one female that is totally bald underneath with a slick, soft coat. Cold temps don't bother her, but she hates water.
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Re: dog shedding

Post by Sharon » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:25 pm

I can't tell from the pics that there is a skin problem. The dog is thinner than I like - I like to able to feel the ribs but not see them. Some folk do like their dog to show ribs.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by mister2 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:59 pm

Thank you all for your responses. Cajun Casey thanks I will try what you mentioned.

Fortunately he loves water. If it wasn't for the approaching winter I wouldn't have had any issues with his coat thickness but at this rate if he were to go squirrel hunting with me in Jan/Feb with a couple feet of snow and freezing temps I don't think he would fare too well.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by mcbosco » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:03 pm

what and how much is that dog eating?

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Re: dog shedding

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:11 pm

Oh, fooey. After finally seeing the torso shots, you might dose him for whipworms. I didn't realize he was that thin. Is he gassy?
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Re: dog shedding

Post by mcbosco » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:13 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Oh, fooey. After finally seeing the torso shots, you might dose him for whipworms. I didn't realize he was that thin. Is he gassy?
He needs attention. He is a good 10lbs underweight, for whatever reason. In person he would look even thinner.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by shags » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:32 pm

There's a lot of variation in coats within a breed. Maybe your dog just has a fine thin haircoat. For the scurf you might try bathing less often and adding fats/oil to his diet. Sometimes what the dogs are fed doesn't agree with them and they don't get as much as they should from the food. Maybe a switch would help. I don't think your pup is way too thin - no pelvic bones or vertebrae are evident, and his muscle tone seems good. Better a bit thin than too fat.
When you say he smells bad, is it a general body odor or from his hind end (anal glands)? Sometimes poor coat and skin plus B.O. points to problems with a particular dogfood formulation.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:37 pm

Have no idea how anyone can look at those pics and see anything but a perfectly healthy dog that is in great shape. I understand the pics aren't showing what you are seeing but there is absolutely no way anyone can make any kind of a diagnosis from them. I would try one of the exterior treatments that is supposed to kill mites and leave a little oil on the coat for a week or two and if you see no improvement and you are still sure there is an ailment of some sort take him to your vet . He is a nice looking dog. Good luck.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by mister2 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:54 pm

Back in mid July his records show him being 32#. It's been a while since I've weighed him but I'm guessing he's around 40-45lbs now. How much should he be at this age? I just thought he was very active. He eats Pro Plan, 2x per day however much he can and will eat in 15-20min then I put the food away. That said, he will usually only eats 1.5 cups per meal at most no matter how active he is. He does not scarf his food down, he barely even cares to eat it. I could leave it out all day and he would only eat that much. A month ago I gave him heartworm pill and safegard dewormer and also started adding chicken broth or canned dog food to his regular food to help up his weight Then he would eat 3 cups easy in one sitting which has helped a lot. A few weeks ago I added fish oil.

I think it's just general body odor but yes he is a bit gassy also come to think of it. Should I change his food and what would be a good option? Whatever it is it must be readily available at general pet stores or Tractor Supply and not cost any more than the Pro Plan.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:58 pm

mister2 wrote:Back in mid July his records show him being 32#. It's been a while since I've weighed him but I'm guessing he's around 40-45lbs now. How much should he be at this age? I just thought he was very active. He eats Pro Plan, 2x per day however much he can and will eat in 15-20min then I put the food away. That said, he will usually only eats 1.5 cups per meal at most no matter how active he is. He does not scarf his food down, he barely even cares to eat it. I could leave it out all day and he would only eat that much. A month ago I gave him heartworm pill and safegard dewormer and also started adding chicken broth or canned dog food to his regular food to help up his weight Then he would eat 3 cups easy in one sitting which has helped a lot. A few weeks ago I added fish oil.

I think it's just general body odor but yes he is a bit gassy also come to think of it. Should I change his food and what would be a good option? Whatever it is it must be readily available at general pet stores or Tractor Supply and not cost any more than the Pro Plan.
I wouldn't change feeds but stop the chicken broth. Tell us more about the heart wormpill and safe guard such as how often and how much?

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Re: dog shedding

Post by mister2 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:12 pm

Vet gave him Hartgard heartworm chewables for 30-50lb dogs. He's taken those once per month since 4 months old.

I gave him Safegard dewormer from the horse section. Used about 1 inch worth per day for 3 days. That was about ~3-4 wks ago.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by mcbosco » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:16 pm

How tall? 22 - 24 inches?

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Re: dog shedding

Post by gotpointers » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:12 am

The safeguard is good stuff, very few other products will take care of tapeworm and are reasonably priced. You are correct on the three consecutive days and monthly doseage. I don't think one inch is enough though. Try squeezeing it into the plunger end of a syringe to get the correct cc,s reccomended. its much easier to measure and i think its cheaper to buy the liquid safeguard for goats. beaglesunlimitied has the chart for the weight of the dog.
I would go for a higher fat content feed. Fatty cheap ground beef boiled with brown rice would be my choice of feed. But most people don't want to spend the time preparing and storeing this weekly. There's also the old trick of a couple of spoonfulls of bacon grease over the feed. Young active dog is going to take more calories.
If its really cold i put straw in their dog box while transporting.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by jmsgunner » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:10 am

I've experienced the more liver the softer finer the hair... Atleast between my two dogs.

Also, the hair is not going to fully cover his belly. My boy, even when his winter coat comes in is not fully covered on his undercarriage.

As for weight, I like to see the last one-two ribs... Didn't really notice him being too thin - but I looked fairly quickly.
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Re: dog shedding

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:27 am

jmsgunner wrote:I've experienced the more liver the softer finer the hair... Atleast between my two dogs.

Also, the hair is not going to fully cover his belly. My boy, even when his winter coat comes in is not fully covered on his undercarriage.

As for weight, I like to see the last one-two ribs... Didn't really notice him being too thin - but I looked fairly quickly.
Shorter hair, tight with no undercoat and sparse underneath on my solid liver male.
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Re: dog shedding

Post by mcbosco » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:36 am

The ribs near the armpit are visible. That dog is 10lbs underweight and needs a better quality food. For the same price Eukanuba and Iams are right next to Pro Plan at Tractor Supply, no wheat, no corn gluten just a much better food.

Worm him if you like, but at this stage if you did not see any signs of a tape worm in its stool, I doubt he has one. Tapeworms also don't have much of an impact on a young, well-fed dog.

Maybe he has other worms, but I bet he doesn't.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by jlp8cornell » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:40 am

The pup looks skinny to me as well. You can see a good 5 ribs plus hip bones. 2-3 ribs is where I like to see them. Try adding some fish oil for his coat. Its good for them anyway.

Where in Central NY are you?

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Re: dog shedding

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:19 am

You guys either have better eyes then me or like fat dogs no way does he need 10 lbs.He would be roll polly fat with 10 lbs.
A few lbs on a dog goes along way but 10 lbs you have got to be kidding. :?

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Re: dog shedding

Post by jmsgunner » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:23 am

Agreed, it's crappy picture with crappy resolution. Really can't see any ribs via my computer at work.
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Re: dog shedding

Post by mcbosco » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:34 am

Look at the first picture on the underside of the rib cage the ribs to the armpit are visible.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:34 am

mcbosco wrote:The ribs near the armpit are visible. That dog is 10lbs underweight and needs a better quality food. For the same price Eukanuba and Iams are right next to Pro Plan at Tractor Supply, no wheat, no corn gluten just a much better food.

Worm him if you like, but at this stage if you did not see any signs of a tape worm in its stool, I doubt he has one. Tapeworms also don't have much of an impact on a young, well-fed dog.

Maybe he has other worms, but I bet he doesn't.


Come on people, end of arguement. Needs ten pounds and better quality food(No wheat or Corn Gluten). Kind of appears a non-existant problem may become one when the dog is ten pounds heavier, but what do we know?
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Re: dog shedding

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:40 am

mcbosco wrote:Look at the first picture on the underside of the rib cage the ribs to the armpit are visible.
Half my dogs are like that. It's called being in shape. This pup isn't in top body condition, but it's the smell and flaking that are of the biggest concern.
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Re: dog shedding

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:14 am

I'll bet the pointer breeders would hate to see you come to their kennels. :lol:

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Re: dog shedding

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:31 am

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:I'll bet the pointer breeders would hate to see you come to their kennels. :lol:
What continues to amaze me on trial dogs is how you can see "bones" but when you put your hands on the mutt, you can't feel them because they are outlined by hard muscle.
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Re: dog shedding

Post by mister2 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:14 am

I think he looks pretty good now. Not too fat, not too skinny. I don't need a high energy muscle bound field trial dog. Just a companion for small game hunting and running around. His littermate looks about 5-10lbs heavier than mine, he looks fat. He doesn't get out as much as I'd like but I do the most I can with what time I can give him. Any more running around and he'd really be skin and bones. He's also about as socialized as possible which is more important to me. Right now I just take him on squirrel hunts, no pressure to do anything and he's used to the .22 shot.

I am in Liverpool, NY.

Ezzy where can I get the exterior treatments for mites?

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Re: dog shedding

Post by jmsgunner » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:16 am

LOL, remind me to never post a picture of my dog....

He's skinny AND abused.

ETA...

I was merely commenting on weight and coat differences but... If the dog is stinky and losing clumps of hair... yeah I'd see a vet to be on the safe side.

My boy gets a bath atleast once every other week during the spring/summer - I use a gentle oatmeal shampoo.
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Re: dog shedding

Post by mcbosco » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:26 am

mister2 wrote:I think he looks pretty good now. Not too fat, not too skinny. I don't need a high energy muscle bound field trial dog. Just a companion for small game hunting and running around. His littermate looks about 5-10lbs heavier than mine, he looks fat. He doesn't get out as much as I'd like but I do the most I can with what time I can give him. Any more running around and he'd really be skin and bones. He's also about as socialized as possible which is more important to me. Right now I just take him on squirrel hunts, no pressure to do anything and he's used to the .22 shot.

I am in Liverpool, NY.

Ezzy where can I get the exterior treatments for mites?
See your vet.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:39 am

mister2 wrote:I think he looks pretty good now. Not too fat, not too skinny. I don't need a high energy muscle bound field trial dog. Just a companion for small game hunting and running around. His littermate looks about 5-10lbs heavier than mine, he looks fat. He doesn't get out as much as I'd like but I do the most I can with what time I can give him. Any more running around and he'd really be skin and bones. He's also about as socialized as possible which is more important to me. Right now I just take him on squirrel hunts, no pressure to do anything and he's used to the .22 shot.

I am in Liverpool, NY.

Ezzy where can I get the exterior treatments for mites?
I think most stores carry an oil that will kill mites. We use a sulferized oil for a lot of animals but I am sure they have better smelling stuff for dogs. I have never needed it so am not personally familiar where you can find it. I will look and post what I find out though.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by mcbosco » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:43 am

ezzy333 wrote:
mister2 wrote:I think he looks pretty good now. Not too fat, not too skinny. I don't need a high energy muscle bound field trial dog. Just a companion for small game hunting and running around. His littermate looks about 5-10lbs heavier than mine, he looks fat. He doesn't get out as much as I'd like but I do the most I can with what time I can give him. Any more running around and he'd really be skin and bones. He's also about as socialized as possible which is more important to me. Right now I just take him on squirrel hunts, no pressure to do anything and he's used to the .22 shot.

I am in Liverpool, NY.

Ezzy where can I get the exterior treatments for mites?
I think most stores carry an oil that will kill mites. We use a sulferized oil for a lot of animals but I am sure they have better smelling stuff for dogs. I have never needed it so am not personally familiar where you can find it. I will look and post what I find out though.

Ezzy
They do but they are intended for spot treatments and they are very very old-fashioned remedies, like Happy Jack. They are not effective and can be very toxic when used over an entire dog.

The smell you described reminds me of Demodex. Be safe, in light of the shedding, skin & weight issue, a vet is in order.

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Re: dog shedding

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:58 am

Frontline spray is now labled for sarcoptic mites. Revolution is for sarcops and ear mites. Advantix Complete for lice. There are no topicals for demodex and none of the pesticide based ones are labled for mites of any kind, just FYI.
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Re: dog shedding

Post by mister2 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:18 pm

mcbosco you asked for his height. He is about 23" tall to the shoulder. He weighs 52lbs. Is that normal for 8mos? I have no idea. I hope he doesn't get much bigger than that.

He has stopped flaking and doesn't really smell that much anymore. I think it's due to the baths. I give him the frequent baths because where I run him there is a lot of poison ivy and I don't want to touch him or have my kids touch him after he's been through that. Maybe it's just me not being used to dog smell. Someone who's owned dogs before could tell me if the smell is normal or not.

I will take him to the vet. For the cold, I think I'll buy some heavy duty fabric from the fabric store and have my wife sew a makeshift cover to fit over the kennel. I will also get him a neoprene vest.

Thanks.

mister2
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Re: dog shedding

Post by mister2 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:49 am

Took my dog to the vet last week. They did a skin scrape and my dog does not have mange or mites. Vet said the hair loss is most likely due to the frequency of baths and strength of shampoo causing the dry, flaky skin. He recommended 3000mg of fish oil daily, switching to an oatmeal based sensitive skin shampoo with less baths and the problem should clear up by itself. The ProPlan I am using is fine also.

On another subject...I took my dog to the fields and we flushed 3 pheasants. The regular season in our area is not open yet but they already stocked pheasants for the junior hunter season which was this past weekend so I figured I'd take him out running. He didn't point or anything, we both just kinda flushed the birds while dilly dallying around but he got pretty excited after they flushed and gave chase. He seems to be a boot licker, sticking around me, not really venturing out at all. In the woods he'll go 30-40yds, in the fields he'l less than 10yds and not really searching through the grass or anything. Is there any way to change this or has it just not clicked in for him yet? Is this normal for a puppy?

I thought he was in pretty good condition but after tromping through 3-4ft of goldenrod and grass for 2hrs he was good and tired.

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Cajun Casey
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Re: dog shedding

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:08 am

Glad to hear there is no problem. You might use cleaning wipes to freshen him up and forego the baths entirely for a while.

His reaction sounds pretty normal to me, especially if you haven't trained him on birds. He's a puppy, he'll come around. At least he didn't bring you a turtle or attempt to carry a launcher!
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

cheetome
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Re: dog shedding

Post by cheetome » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:48 am

What kind of dog bedding do you use?? I had the exact same thing going on with my liver female. I took her to the vet had blood tests and scrapes all came back normal. Through conversation with the vet he asked what bedding I used. I was using a pine bedding and he said he believed she had a bacterial infection from the bedding. I told him I have been using it for years and he said just any one bag can have it. He gave her a shot and a antibiotic and told me to get rid of the old bedding. I cleaned everything real good and sprayed it down with bleach/water solution let it dry and switched to straw. In two days the flacking stopped her coat is thin but he said it takes up to 45 days for it to be back to normal. Don't know if that is what is going on with your pup or not but seems a lot like my situation.

mister2
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Re: dog shedding

Post by mister2 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:02 am

I was using a couple of towels for bedding. I washed the bedding weekly. I have not used anything for almost a month now.

shenglu
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Re: dog shedding

Post by shenglu » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:58 pm

I like the dog is less than the thickness - I like to feel the ribs, but did not see them. Some people do not like to show their dogs ribs.

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