So many different Organizations

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Greek
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So many different Organizations

Post by Greek » Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:29 am

WhooooHH... I have been looking at the differnet hunt and field organizations to join for when I get my pup (GSP). Holy smokes there are alot, much more than in the personal protection dog world. I was talking to the breeder and he mentioned the NSTRA and navhda. I have found gspcindiana too. I realize that state to state clubs are different but I am would like to get some thoughts and experiences from folks on the overall organizations, plus any that I missed. NSTRA has a local trial coming up that I am going to go out and watch later this month. I guess I just do not totaly understand why there are so many. None seem breed specific from reading the websites.

adogslife
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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by adogslife » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:51 am

They are specific in that they are pointing dog or retriever.
Most of the organizations are geared toward field,some have higher retrieving standards than others and NAVHDA is geared toward versatile hunting.

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:24 am

Some are performance based and some are breed based. Pick what you like.

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by proudag08 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:40 am

I'll tell you that I was in your boat/ am in your boat as I will soon be getting a GSP as well. I went out to a NSTRA last year before I even knew where I was getting my pup from. Just to test it out and see what it was like. At the trial everyone was really nice. You will definately be tagged as the newbie but that isnt a bad thing. I had a guy offer to let me run his dog in the last brace but I didnt want to do something stupid and declined. The judges let me ride along on the 4 wheelers and I got to ask them what they look for etc. So you are definately on the right track going to a trial. You will find a lot of people around you that are willing to help. AKC trilas are all on horse back and for a guy living in the suburbs, having a horse and room enough to let my dog cast 300 as soon as I let him go is not somthing I have at the momet so I didnt bother going to one of those. I havent been to a NAVHDA trial.

SO that being said, I would say you will find 3 main organizations for trialing. AKC, NSTRA, and NAVHDA. NSTRA is mostly walking trials and only requires steady to wing. AKC is mostly horse-back trials and requires steady to wing and shot. I am not familiar with NAVHDA.

Your local breed specific or performance specific clubs will have guys and gals that trial in all the organizations listed above. I would say, meet the people at club meetings and then go with them to their respective trials. Its like finding an alumni to go tour a college campus with, you'll get more out of it because they have been there before.

Thats my .02. Hope it helps!

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:49 am

There are may ways to enjoy time with dogs.

Thus, for performance dogs there are a number of different organizations with differeing perfromance formats. There is some overlap between the formats and in some cases a lot of similarities.

There is NSTRA where the dog is expected to point and retrieve birds shot by the handler in what is essentially a preserve setting. Points are awarded for varying levels of performance in several categories. Steadiness to wing and shot is not required. There is a winner.

All of the following field trials are judged by two or more individuals against a written standard, but there is no "formula" or "scoring". The dog that is best in the eyes of the judges sis awarded first place and the others are placed second, third and in some cases, fourth.

There are AKC field trials for GSP's(both walking and horseback) where the dog is expected to point birds and retrieve one bird, shot by official guns, under judgement. The dog must be steady to wing, shot AND fall. There are also AKC field trials(GSP or all breed) where a no bird is shot so a retrieve is not required.
There is US Complete Shooting Dog Assn., NBHA, ABHA field trials where the dog is expected to point birds and be steady to wing and shot. The handlers MUST walk...horseback andling is not permitted. No bird is shot so a retrieve is not required.
There are American Field trials(mostly horseback but some walking) where the dog is expected to point birds and be steady to wing and shot. No retrieve required.

Ther are also what some like to call "Run and Gun" competitions where the dog and handler team are given a set amount of time and a set number of shotgun shells to bring to bag the required maximum number of birds. Typically the team which achieves the required kill in the shortest time wins. Steadiness on game is not required.

The other type of competitions are what are called "Hunt tests" of one type or another, where dogs are "tested" against a written standard,. scores recorded for performance in variouas categories and those with acceptable scores are givenen a "PASS"

There are AKC hunt tests with three different levels of difficulty (Junior, Senior and Master) where the dogs are expected, at successive levels, to point(Junior), then point and hold steady to wing and shot(senior), then steady to wing shot and fall and back on sight(Master). A certain number of passes at each level will accord the dog the title of (J,S or Master Hunter).

There are Navhda tests whe there is a tracking requirement. A water search requirement and a water retrieve requirement. There are, I believ e, at least two levels of testing.

There are other organizations such as NHRA, and both retriever and flushing dog tests and trials which I know very little about, since I do not have retrievers or flushing dogs.

There are also, very likely, some that I have omitted.

RayG

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by MOOSE » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:17 am

We run our dogs mainly in NAVHDA. I have nothing against any of the other organizations we just feel after researching that NAVHDA met our goals and had goals similar to the type of hunting we do.

NAVHDA is based on the versatile dog. In NAVHDA there are 3 different titles you can get. First is the NA (Natural Ability) this is for dogs under 16 months. They have to swim twice, track a pheasant and do field work. AT this level steadiness isn't needed but pointing the bird long enough for the judge to see the point is.

Then Utility is the next level. This one the dogs have to do a duck search, duck retrieves and in this there is also a blind and obedience work needed, a drag of a duck or a furred animal if you supply it, and the field work. In this level the dog has to be stead to fall for field work. If you get a prize 1 in this level you get invited to the invitational where you can try for your Versatile Championship. Not sure on all the requirements there.

But as we are upland and waterfowl hunters and believe strongly that the GSP is needed to be tested in both those areas we chose NAVHDA.

As long as you are having fun with your dog in the long run it really doesn't matter where you play! :0)
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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by adogslife » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:29 am

NAVHDA has 4 levels of testing:
NA,UPT,UT,VC

there is a feather drag and steadiness around water and gunfire

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by Redfishkilla » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:49 am

Hunting wild birds is where it's at. But you should definitely play some type of game with your pup. IMO, you get a lot more out of dog ownership when you go play these games. With trials and hunting I can keep my dog in shape for most of the year and always have something to look forward to, trials, wild birds, trials,...etc. When you buy a bird dog you have an obligation to take it hunting so it can do what it was bred to do.

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by gotpointers » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:44 am

I see it about the same as religions. Someone doesent like something or thinks one thing is more important than another. So hey let's start our own.
In my opinion run whatcha-brung. don't be breed specific. Or registry specific. May the best dog win.
I would consider the real National Champion to be the one one the cover of the American field. They have been there since 1874. And they have every national champion listed since the late 1800s. There is only one national champion per year on the cover. Sort of like theres only one superbowl champion per year. Yeah it pisses me off when i see a dog listed as national champion but its nowhere to be found on the oldest american registry. I guess i could do the same and come up with my own criteria and hold a championship of my own. That would fool a few newbies thinking they are getting a pup out of the national champion.

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by smoothbean » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:12 am

There is a UFTA trial at the Royal FLush Hunting Preserve in Rosedale, In. this weekend. It is a two day event Oct. 8th and 9th with pointing and flushing events.
http://www.royalflushent.com/
http://www.ufta-online.com/index.php
It is a really good time and for me it was a great way to get started in field trialing. Scoring is pretty basic. You should come check it out. As with the other organizations we too have alot of good people and great dogs. Hope to see ya there.

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by jcbuttry8 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:23 am

Most of AKC trials are horseback. You just need to look at the stakes. If it is an open stake most will be on horseback. They also have walking trials. The handler is on foot but the judges and the gallery are on horse. Most of trials have wranglers that you can get a horse from. It is generally $10 a brace for the horse. They are not near as good as owning your own and picking what you want but they do get the job done. I recommend a set of spurs though. Some don't like to go and need a little help.

You really should go check out an AKC trial if one is near you. You can read about all the different org's out there but you can not get the experience without visiting a few different ones to find out where you fit in. So, far I have been to a couple of trials and hunt tests. Love the trials.

Good luck with your pup and go have fun. Hunt and test. It will be good for you and your pup.

Joe

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by shags » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:46 am

^^^^What he said. Except - you may always walk in any akc trial or stake, not just designated walking ones. Some grounds, courses, and stakes would tough for a walker, some are okay, but it's up to you whether you walk or ride.

There are so many venues to choose from, just about anyone can find something to do to have fun with their dog. Just takes a little research and an open mind. If one isn't a fit, try another.

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by High Voltage » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:10 pm

Our oldest GSP did NAVHDA NA, ACK JR Hunt Test & Puppy Field Trails all at the same time. We enjoy NAVHDA because our chapter gets together twice a month to train and they have a source for birds. The people we have met have been great and a good source for training info. They help you train your dog, they do not train it for you.

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by larry » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:15 pm

You do not say what you are looking to get out of one of these dog clubs, and what kind of hunting you will be doing with your dog. I am very familiar with NAVHDA and know that thier testing program is only part of what they are about. I believe that their main purpose is to help the dog owner learn how to train his own dog. Most NAVHDA chapters have at least one training day a month where you can go and get some help from experienced trainers. It is also a good place to meet like minded people that you may form friendships with that will last a life time.

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by MOOSE » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:56 pm

adogslife wrote:NAVHDA has 4 levels of testing:
NA,UPT,UT,VC

there is a feather drag and steadiness around water and gunfire
Haha. I forgot all about UPT cause most people don't even bother with it and just go to UT. LOL
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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by Birddawg » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:22 pm

New guy here. Just want to get my 2 cents in. I went to NSTRA trials before I even bought my dog. After buying and training one dog I realized i wanted to keep as active as i could with my dog. Both for my dog's sake, and for the fun. I agree with redfishkilla, that hunting is where its at. I do the field trials now for the fun of keeping my dog's sharp and on their game,,,,,for hunting season.
I think you have to ask yourself what you want.

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by steamer » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:54 pm

you could join both navhda and nstra. twice as much fun. navhda is testing and training only no trials. its a great way to learn if your new to the game . central indiana chapter usually trains at brookville res. once a month from march until september . join up and run na test in may . its a good group of guys very helpfull. then you could join amo bird dog club and run a few club trials using nstra rules and work into nstra trials . there is a club trial next sunday the 16 th and then the big boys come in for dog of the year the next couple of weekends. should be fun to watch.

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Greek
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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by Greek » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:01 pm

steamer wrote:you could join both navhda and nstra. twice as much fun. navhda is testing and training only no trials. its a great way to learn if your new to the game . central indiana chapter usually trains at brookville res. once a month from march until september . join up and run na test in may . its a good group of guys very helpfull. then you could join amo bird dog club and run a few club trials using nstra rules and work into nstra trials . there is a club trial next sunday the 16 th and then the big boys come in for dog of the year the next couple of weekends. should be fun to watch.
Steamer - Thanks for info I spoke with a NAVHDA member and as you said in March they will start to train. I will probably join that group.. I sent an email to GSP of Indiana and want to talk to some Amo folks. I am planning on getting over to Amo on the 30th to check things out. Amo is much more expensive to join so I want to make sure its a right fit before dropping that kinda dough. Larry I did forget to mention I am looking for a training club and I will definitely trial in the summer. I do have access to Crooked Creek Conservation club which has 80 Acres of training area and two ponds..its literally minutes from my house, however they do not have a strong showing of pointer folks or for that matter dog folks in general. My 14 yr old has always helped me out. I get my pup tomorrow and we will see how he responds, but I would like to take him to Michigan for Grouse next fall and maybe just maybe SD or Iowa for Ringneck :P . Of course it all tends on the pup.

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:16 pm

Chris, read your blog and, you might want to check with your breeder, but I believe your puppy will be roan and not ticked. Good luck with him, regardless.
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Greek
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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by Greek » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:20 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Chris, read your blog and, you might want to check with your breeder, but I believe your puppy will be roan and not ticked. Good luck with him, regardless.
Cajun Casey - LOL... I had a feeling I would screw up the color.. These GSP's come in so many variations ... its great. I will have that conversation tomorrow.

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Re: So many different Organizations

Post by MOOSE » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:45 am

Chris you are going to have one NICE pup from that litter! Congrats! I hope you post a lot of pictures of the pup growing up as well. I would for sure look at NAVHDA testing with those lines as well. Have fun!
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