Puppy Demand.

[Stoneface]

I've been at a couple trials over the past two weekends and have been told by just about everyone that interest in field trials and birddogs in general is at an unreal downward spiral. The folks I've spoken to who breed say that the only one that has no problem selling pups is the one with pups out of the latest national champion. One guy said he posted a litter of pups for free in classifieds from Des Moines to Dallas and never got a single inquiry.

Now, these are Pointers we're talking about. I've come to realize that Pointers are absolutely phenomenal house dogs, but the general bird hunting community, I don't think, realizes this and all Pointers are considered for are kennel dogs that should typically be taken out just to run birds. This is a shame, but it's the way it is.

But, what about other breeds? Do any of you breeders out there have trouble finding homes for your pups? What breed owns you and what is your main focus; NSTRA, AF, AKC, meat hunting, etc? Do you think these folks that are saying you can't hardly give a dog away are crazy or right on the money? Which, in your opinion, is the breed in the highest demand? I would have thought Shorthairs, but a few folks this past weekend said Britts were something everyone wanted to get their hands on.

What do you think?

[PkerStr8Tail]

My analogy would be the car industry. Car sales are off like most things in this down economy, but there are still car sales happening. The big dealerships are hurt by the lower demand, but not nearly as bad as the small corner lot guy. That small lot guy needs a strong demand to survive. The big operations or big names are still moving dogs but at a slower rate and reduced price over 4 years ago. However, the small guy is probably having to practically give them away as you said. Basic supply and demand. No doubt demand is down. I can't imagine that any specific breed is better off than any other. I would suspect they are all hit equally.

[Karen]

We just had our very first litter. We plan to keep 2 pups. I had 3 deposits well before they were born and the last 2 were sold before they were 2 weeks old. Not sure about other breeds, we have brittanys that we show and run in horseback field trials, mostly AKC but some AF.

[mcbosco]

I think puppy demand for certain breeds has a lot to do with the state of the sport, which is not healthy. Gun sales are also dismal, with the exception of personal protection weapons.

I thought by the time my kids were old enough they would be begging to shoot, but I can hardly get them to come skeet shooting.

The economy certainly has something to do with it but I think it has to do more with the declining number of hunters. There is a big county park 2 miles from me that has to beg guys to come for the annual harvest to control the deer population. Duck hunting too is not that popular anymore either, which is sad because NJ has some great spots.

You are right Pointers are sweet dogs and good in the house, but the perception is that they are hunting tools and they suffer more popularity-wise. Some dog breeds are kinda like skinny ties, they come back at some point.

[DonF]

Maybe it will slow down the puppy mills.

[Wildweeds]

if ya got good ones and the parents are known in a local/regional sort of way you could have not enough pups.I had 5 spoken for before there was a breeding,I've got 4 left and haven't even ran an ad yet.There has been expressed interest by other people who have seen the pups that went home.perhaps I hit a home run on the breeding or my buddy and I got em raised right with about 6 hours a day worth of human interaction along with puppy walks as a gang,braces and solo along with crate training.I got pics of the whippersnappers on a thread I started about 3/4 of the way down the page.Funny thing is that all of the pups that have gone.... have gone to Field trialers who have seen one parent or both in action.I guess that's the best advertising there is.

[live4point]

I think way more than the economy it is the lack of birds.I live in Mo. and our bird population has been on a downward spiral for many years.More and more people give up on the sport every year.I talk to guys every so often that used to bird hunt but gave it up years ago due to lack of birds.We had a harder winter last year than we have had in years,and our upland forecast is projected to be even worse this year.Fewer birds=fewer hunters=fewer need for bird dogs. It's hard to get younger hunters too exited about bird hunting when you have to walk your butt off and find few if any birds.You don't see bird dogs for sale around here like you used to,just not much demand anymore.

[quailrunner]

It's not just hunting either, our participation at bass tournaments was about 1/2 what it was 2 years ago. People are struggling with the economy, gas prices keep a lot of people from filling up the truck or boat. Heck, even the snow bird migration is half what it used to be!

[RoostersMom]

I'm not a breeder, so don't know about puppy demand, except I see a lot of folks still trying to get rid of 4 month old dogs these days. I do however, see a ton of birddogs in shelters. I foster for a shelter in a mid-sized community in central MO - hundreds of pointers per year come through the shelter. Puppy demand may be there, but forever homes are not there for a lot of birddogs.

I really love the breeders who do a really good job of screening homes, breeding a litter when they have deposits in hand, and will take back pups that don't work out. I wish there were more breeders like that out there.

[helpful_cub]

It's combination of things I think. Most people who want a dog don't hunt. So any dog will do, including a mutt from the pound. But for those that much have an English Pointer, GSP, etc there are Rescues available that let them get a dog for a much cheaper price. Since they don't hunt, they don't care if its not a trial line, its just a good looking dog to them. Same for the missing AKC paperwork. The GSP Rescue I work with has adopted out 90 dog already this year (a record for us) and it mainly focus on non-hunting families. Plus, we get a lot of new dogs every week from the various shelters in the area. A lot people can't afford a dog anymore so the just dump it. Or how I got my boy, they didn't have a yard big enough for him to run so they gave him away to a shelter.

Another issue is that hunting in general is on the decline nationwide. Here in California they only issued 3000 upland stickers this year. That's way way down from previous years.

So it comes down to supply and demand.
-Number of hunters is down
-market (available money) is down, smaller land plots, no dog food budget
-number of dogs available is up
-rescues are cheaper than breeder dogs shifting demand away from breeders

[Cajun Casey]

I'm not a breeder, so don't know about puppy demand, except I see a lot of folks still trying to get rid of 4 month old dogs these days. I do however, see a ton of birddogs in shelters. I foster for a shelter in a mid-sized community in central MO - hundreds of pointers per year come through the shelter. Puppy demand may be there, but forever homes are not there for a lot of birddogs.

I really love the breeders who do a really good job of screening homes, breeding a litter when they have deposits in hand, and will take back pups that don't work out. I wish there were more breeders like that out there.

YES! I have a litter when I want a litter (well, except for the one last year which very nearly resulted in my strangling their father) and the pups go to people in my circle of referrals and acquaintances without or without monetary consideration. They always have a home with me, regardless, if needed.

[Sharon]

[quote="StoneFace"]I've been at a couple trials over the past two weekends and have been told by just about everyone that interest in field trials and birddogs in general is at an unreal downward spiral. The folks . Quote

Certainly true in Ontario. LOTS of folks for Championships but only a handful for weekend trials. As the old timers who have kept the sport active for years die off, new members aren't taking their place. Sad to see.

[LincolnAlexander]

Certainly true in Ontario. LOTS of folks for Championships but only a handful for weekend trials. As the old timers who have kept the sport active for years die off, new members aren't taking their place. Sad to see.

Definitely seemed like participation was down this year in field events, however there are some new ones starting out in our area; think there are 10 or so who I train with who have started doing field stuff just in the last 3 years (but NAVHDA/Hunt Tests so far as opposed to trials.) Both my wife and I help with NAVHDA tests, are holding a Weim Retriever Ratings test this weekend, enter CKC Hunt Tests, and we are considering holding a CKC Field Trial next year.

[orbirdhunter]

It seems to be supply and demand to me. There is a huge supply of EP's,GSP's,Britts etc from some kind of trial stock out there. Demand is going down. I have a interest/curiousity in field trialing but its not cheap to get started.

I think it is a bit of a individual breed issue as well. At least here in the northwest versatile bred kennels seem to be really gaining in popularity with hunters. NAVDHA kennels and Drahthaars out here bring a premium price tag and alot of litters have multiple deposits down early and whole litter sold within days of it hitting the ground. Waiting lists are not uncommon for NAVDHA wirehairs, pudelpointers, drahthaars, griffons etc. These breeds the demand is outpacing the supply, at least for the time being in this part of the country.
As my wife and i have started researching possibly getting into field trials i am finding that a decently bred pup or even a started prospect, maybe not a AA prospect but a good first dog to dip your toes in and have a good time and be competitive can be had for less then $500 easy, and a good chance of getting one for free to $200
Its going to cost me a minimum of $800 for the next versatile pup that i'll want, probably more like 1000-1200 unless i get a deal with a breeder i know personally.

[Sharon]

Certainly true in Ontario. LOTS of folks for Championships but only a handful for weekend trials. As the old timers who have kept the sport active for years die off, new members aren't taking their place. Sad to see.

Definitely seemed like participation was down this year in field events, however there are some new ones starting out in our area; think there are 10 or so who I train with who have started doing field stuff just in the last 3 years (but NAVHDA/Hunt Tests so far as opposed to trials.) Both my wife and I help with NAVHDA tests, are holding a Weim Retriever Ratings test this weekend, enter CKC Hunt Tests, and we are considering holding a CKC Field Trial next year.

Because NAVHDA folks meet regularly for training purposes, this really increases your outreach to newbies. Highly commendable. Unfortunately our trial club does not do that.

[markj]

Supply and demand are a finicky pair. Look at Harley for example, a few years ago supply was kept down, guys had to buy a piece of paper (build sheet) and wait for it to be built. Tghen they made more factories, made more bikes, now I see them for less than 5 grand. Cant give em away. Flood the market and the value goes way down as well.

Unless you gots DKS lol just funning there, dont make no mind of it..lol

[JKP]

I have DD..so I guess that would be under the "meat dog" category...

There has been an explosion of pups over the past few years...living in the east, there is limited demand. I will probably not have a litter this year. Unless I've got serious folks waiting, its just not worth the time. I think those folks that want to put the time into building a portfolio of titles and do some marketing, there will always be a market. But even that level of marketing is pretty crowded these days.

Pointers as pets??? house dogs??? of course they can...any calm, confident and intelligent dog can be a good house dog...and still hunt like a whirlwind.