What would you do?
- PkerStr8Tail
- Rank: Senior Hunter
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- Location: Canton, IL
What would you do?
I think there was a recent TV show titled something close to that anyway. The show had hidden cameras showing people in situations where they would be tempted with a situation where they could make an immoral decision and the idea was to see if they would do the right thing when no one was watching. This got me thinking about a recent situation I was involved in where I got a pup that turned out to have a genetic problem which was severe enough to have to be put down. I contacted the breeder and told him of the problem and also learned that one of the other littermates was found dead in the kennel. (makes me wonder if they had the same problem) So anyway after telling the breeding this information, the response was sorry to hear about your pup. That's it. Not even a second thought about trying to make it right. Just shows some people are greedy and only think of themselves. I don't feel I should have to argue and fight to get them to do the right thing.
You are the breeder:
So what would you do?
You are the breeder:
So what would you do?
Re: What would you do?
Puppies should come with a five year guarantee of genetic defects IMO. With that only sound genetic tested dogs should be bred IMO.
- birddog1968
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Re: What would you do?
I would offer you another pup from another litter or refund your money.....I would be pleased that someone brought this to my attention and stop breeding that line until i knew what the heck was going on....
I don't think genetic testing of that sort is really available Vision....Most Univ don't even have any pointer type dogs dna on file to figure out if issues are or how they are genetically carried and passed. Pups are a roll of the dice in more ways then one.
I don't think genetic testing of that sort is really available Vision....Most Univ don't even have any pointer type dogs dna on file to figure out if issues are or how they are genetically carried and passed. Pups are a roll of the dice in more ways then one.
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.
Hunters Pale Rider
Hunters Branch Jalapeno
Hunters Pale Rider
Hunters Branch Jalapeno
- ymepointer
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Re: What would you do?
I sold a pup to a couple and guaranteed the pup for life.....I said, if anything genetic is wrong with this pup not age related I will give you your money back....they asked me to put it in writing so I had a friend of mine who was a lawyer write up a document and I signed my life away.....I hope that pup never has any issues but you really never know. If it does happen I will give them there purchase price back and wish them well.
- RoostersMom
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Re: What would you do?
I would refund purchase price and/or offer another pup. I would immediately take that dam and stud out of my breeding program until I figured out what the problem was. I would also immediately contact all other puppy owners and let them know there might be a potential problem.
Bad breeders SUCK. The dog should be the breeders responsibility IMO. If you can't care for it anymore, it goes back to the breeder - who gladly accepts the dog at any point in it's life and either keeps it or finds it another home. If the dog has a genetic defect, then it's the breeder's responsibility to make it right to the dog owner. Too many breeders think their responsibility ends at 6 weeks of age....and don't get me started at the breeders who let pups go to new homes before they're even 8 weeks old....I'd be p.o.'d all night.
Bad breeders SUCK. The dog should be the breeders responsibility IMO. If you can't care for it anymore, it goes back to the breeder - who gladly accepts the dog at any point in it's life and either keeps it or finds it another home. If the dog has a genetic defect, then it's the breeder's responsibility to make it right to the dog owner. Too many breeders think their responsibility ends at 6 weeks of age....and don't get me started at the breeders who let pups go to new homes before they're even 8 weeks old....I'd be p.o.'d all night.
- Cajun Casey
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Re: What would you do?
First, I'd ask for a necropsy or at least some kind of statement from a vet regarding the problem.
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Re: What would you do?
I would ask for a statement from the vet also. Everything right there, new pup or the money back.
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!
Re: What would you do?
I would check my contract to verify the guarantee. Then a letter to the breeder asking for restitution or replacement. If no results, then a small claims action.
Why own a dog? There's a danger you know,
You can't own just one, for the craving will grow.
There's no doubt they're addictive, wherein lies the danger.
While living with lots, you'll grow poorer and stranger.
You can't own just one, for the craving will grow.
There's no doubt they're addictive, wherein lies the danger.
While living with lots, you'll grow poorer and stranger.
- ElhewPointer
- Rank: 5X Champion
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Re: What would you do?
I've had similar things happen like that Greg. Pretty sad what "breeders" will/won't do for ya.
- Birdman250
- Rank: Senior Hunter
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- Location: NE Wisconsin
Re: What would you do?
If I was that breeder I would verify the info, and so to the discovery, give you a choice of a new puppy or refund. If genetic defects was the case, I too would take the sire and dam out of my breeding program..It is these sad breeders that ruins for the rest.
Re: What would you do?
Refund your money so you can choose another pup from another breeder if you wish to or buy another from me. If I was the breeder this is the way I would handle this.You are the breeder:
So what would you do?
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1103
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5210
"If there are no dogs in Heaven,
then when I die I want to go
where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5210
"If there are no dogs in Heaven,
then when I die I want to go
where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935
Re: What would you do?
It has been my experience that not many breeders will give your money back and I fall into that category 99% of the time. I would simply tell you to put the pup down and offer you something else that I may have or something off a future breeding to make it right. It would be interesting to know what was wrong with the dog. SCKWEST
Re: What would you do?
Man, usually this forum just jumps all over breeders. We don't know the whole story here.
Without a valid necropsy, there is not a lot that can be done.
Justin
Without a valid necropsy, there is not a lot that can be done.
Justin
We have done something with nothing for so long we are now qualified to do everything with anything....
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=275
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=520
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=275
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=520
- ElhewPointer
- Rank: 5X Champion
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Re: What would you do?
He did say it was enough to put the dog down. I doubt its just a bad bite.
- kbshorthairs
- Rank: Champion
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- Location: Cashion, Ok
Re: What would you do?
I've learned to be far more cautious about where and from whom I get a puppy.
- ElhewPointer
- Rank: 5X Champion
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Re: What would you do?
kbshorthairs wrote:I've learned to be far more cautious about where and from whom I get a puppy.
+1
- PkerStr8Tail
- Rank: Senior Hunter
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- Location: Canton, IL
Re: What would you do?
The pup is not dead, but I will have to put it down for sure. Just waiting a bit to see if he comes back and wants it back, but I won't hold my breathe. I am not going to go into all the details on here but if interested you can PM me. There is no doubt it is a genetic issue. I am not looking for sympathy, just venting about people who are greedy and just don't show values these days. I won't be discussing in an open public forum like this, but you can sure bet I will let anyone I know who they are and how they operate.Buckeye_V wrote:Man, usually this forum just jumps all over breeders. We don't know the whole story here.
Without a valid necropsy, there is not a lot that can be done.
Justin
Re: What would you do?
Rather than rely on genetic testing; is there some kind of database that could be run by breeders and vets? Seems to me that reporting genetic issues with your own dog (hip displaysia, etc) to a central source would pay off after a couple generations. There could be a requirement that you must have documentation from your vet that its a genetic problem. If the problem pops up in a line ONCE in 3 generations, who cares? But if it keeps showing up breeders would know.
- Cajun Casey
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Re: What would you do?
www.offa.orghansreb3 wrote:Rather than rely on genetic testing; is there some kind of database that could be run by breeders and vets? Seems to me that reporting genetic issues with your own dog (hip displaysia, etc) to a central source would pay off after a couple generations. There could be a requirement that you must have documentation from your vet that its a genetic problem. If the problem pops up in a line ONCE in 3 generations, who cares? But if it keeps showing up breeders would know.
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
-
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Re: What would you do?
Have you had the dog to a vet at all? Any lab results back on glucose levels or anything at all. Who diagnosed the genetic defect. If it is genetic what is the defect?
Just curious
Just curious
Re: What would you do?
I would, as the breeder, want the pup back with a statement from the diagnosing veterinarian as to the nature of the genetic problem and how it was diagnosed. I would then go to my vet for a second opinion. If all turned out as the buyer reported to me, I would replace the pup. Now OFA testing for hips is easy to verify with breeder before purchase of a pup. On the website they list dogs that have been tested. When my dogs are done, I mark that permission is given to post them no matter what the results.
A buyer can also request to see the OFA results of paperwork on parents of pups he is looking at. I don't know that this is the problem here... just guessing, but safeguards must be taken by both parties. The percentage of GSP that have bad hips is low, but I test anyhow. Results come in the mail with a certificate within a few weeks of testing. I am not a large kennel, but problems like this could be devastating. To some maybe it should be, but there is responsibility and some homework on both sides Just my opinion...
Julia
A buyer can also request to see the OFA results of paperwork on parents of pups he is looking at. I don't know that this is the problem here... just guessing, but safeguards must be taken by both parties. The percentage of GSP that have bad hips is low, but I test anyhow. Results come in the mail with a certificate within a few weeks of testing. I am not a large kennel, but problems like this could be devastating. To some maybe it should be, but there is responsibility and some homework on both sides Just my opinion...
Julia
The pup is not dead, but I will have to put it down for sure. Just waiting a bit to see if he comes back and wants it back, but I won't hold my breathe. I am not going to go into all the details on here but if interested you can PM me. There is no doubt it is a genetic issue. I am not looking for sympathy, just venting about people who are greedy and just don't show values these days. I won't be discussing in an open public forum like this, but you can sure bet I will let anyone I know who they are and how they operate.
Karl & Julia Heidbrink
Buggytown Bird Dogs
Central Georgia
Buggytown Bird Dogs
Central Georgia
- Ruffshooter
- GDF Junkie
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Re: What would you do?
If I were the breeder, you get a pup from another proven breeding. If I have no other breedings in your time frame you get a refund with vets report.
If this were a breeder of ocassion and was of limited means the least he could do is explain their situation and make at least some effort to at least pay vet bills or something.
Then, I would not be doing that breeding again.
There needs to be integrity and honor in any dealings.
If this were a breeder of ocassion and was of limited means the least he could do is explain their situation and make at least some effort to at least pay vet bills or something.
Then, I would not be doing that breeding again.
There needs to be integrity and honor in any dealings.
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.
Rick
Rick
Re: What would you do?
The general public already thinks of breeders as puppy mills. I hear it on the news from time to time and we surely need to be breeding with integrity if we breed at all. I do breed, and I like to have my buyers know that I will help them when and if needed. I have only had 2 pups returned to me, both of which were rehomed and not for health reasons... they came back because family needs changed, and the owners did not want to, as one said "put the pup on Craigslist and take our chances". Thankfully I was called both times. Things happen sometimes. It means we need to be ready to stand behind our pups...
Ruffshooter wrote:If I were the breeder, you get a pup from another proven breeding. If I have no other breedings in your time frame you get a refund with vets report.
If this were a breeder of ocassion and was of limited means the least he could do is explain their situation and make at least some effort to at least pay vet bills or something.
Then, I would not be doing that breeding again.
There needs to be integrity and honor in any dealings.
Karl & Julia Heidbrink
Buggytown Bird Dogs
Central Georgia
Buggytown Bird Dogs
Central Georgia
Re: What would you do?
Just saying we all jump to conclusions on these boards from only one perspective. I don't know either person. I don't know what the dog has or does not have. I have seen some dogs mis-diagnosed from one vet, so I'm not sure I would even trust that. I am just saying you guys are jumping all over this breeder and we don't know all the facts yet.
Would I stand behind my pups, yeah - but not until I knew all of the facts.
I don't believe on jumping on a board and airing my dirty laundry, though either. Just sayin.
Would I stand behind my pups, yeah - but not until I knew all of the facts.
I don't believe on jumping on a board and airing my dirty laundry, though either. Just sayin.
We have done something with nothing for so long we are now qualified to do everything with anything....
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=275
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=520
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=275
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=520
Re: What would you do?
If it was out of my dogs and still alive I would want it back pronto so I could take it to my vet for an eval, I would pay the cost of the pup and return shipping just to make sure what is going on.
A dead dog can tell you nothing unless it is autopsied by a vet or the folks at UNL's necropsy lab for animals.
A dead dog can tell you nothing unless it is autopsied by a vet or the folks at UNL's necropsy lab for animals.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1103
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5210
"If there are no dogs in Heaven,
then when I die I want to go
where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5210
"If there are no dogs in Heaven,
then when I die I want to go
where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935
Re: What would you do?
The question isn't whether he has standing in court, or whether the dog is truly sick. The question is 'What would you do?'
If a puppy I sold showed up with a fatal genetic conditiion, I would offer a refund or replacement.
Depending on the situation, I might ask for a second opinion, either to verify the condition or see if there is anything that can be done to treat the pup that hadn't been thought of.
Bottom line, my inclination wil be to take care of the puppy owner, not step back with a "Sucks to be you" attitude.
If a puppy I sold showed up with a fatal genetic conditiion, I would offer a refund or replacement.
Depending on the situation, I might ask for a second opinion, either to verify the condition or see if there is anything that can be done to treat the pup that hadn't been thought of.
Bottom line, my inclination wil be to take care of the puppy owner, not step back with a "Sucks to be you" attitude.
http://www.socovs.com
DC AFC Valley Hunter's Southern Comfort CD MH NA NAJ, UT Prize II, "Shooter"
DC GCH Lagniappe's Chosen One MH, "Buffy"
DC AFC SoCo's Enchanted One JH, "TomBoy"
CH SoCo's Independence Day SH, "Patriot"
SoCo's Twist of Fate JH, "Emma Jane"
DC AFC Valley Hunter's Southern Comfort CD MH NA NAJ, UT Prize II, "Shooter"
DC GCH Lagniappe's Chosen One MH, "Buffy"
DC AFC SoCo's Enchanted One JH, "TomBoy"
CH SoCo's Independence Day SH, "Patriot"
SoCo's Twist of Fate JH, "Emma Jane"
Re: What would you do?
If I were called with this problem, I would take the pup back (I mentioned that I have taken 2 back from other litters with other problems due to owners' situations) but I would want the veterinary report and a second opinion from my vet anyhow. Certainly if this was a fault from my program I would replace that pup from another line when I had a litter, and then deal with the parents of the pup as needed after veterinary confirmation of a real problem.
We only have partially one side of the story here, and I respect the poster not wanting to air dirty laundry any further on the forum, but there is another side to this problem... and that leaves me cautious in my response
Julia
We only have partially one side of the story here, and I respect the poster not wanting to air dirty laundry any further on the forum, but there is another side to this problem... and that leaves me cautious in my response
Julia
phermes1 wrote:The question isn't whether he has standing in court, or whether the dog is truly sick. The question is 'What would you do?'
If a puppy I sold showed up with a fatal genetic conditiion, I would offer a refund or replacement.
Depending on the situation, I might ask for a second opinion, either to verify the condition or see if there is anything that can be done to treat the pup that hadn't been thought of.
Bottom line, my inclination wil be to take care of the puppy owner, not step back with a "Sucks to be you" attitude.
Karl & Julia Heidbrink
Buggytown Bird Dogs
Central Georgia
Buggytown Bird Dogs
Central Georgia
Re: What would you do?
Same here Julia.
I would stand by my pup too, but every situation is different and you can't paint with broad strokes.
Just saying, it's a hard thing to call in a public forum when only one side is presented.
These are animals and not products you buy off a shelf.
Justin
I would stand by my pup too, but every situation is different and you can't paint with broad strokes.
Just saying, it's a hard thing to call in a public forum when only one side is presented.
These are animals and not products you buy off a shelf.
Justin
We have done something with nothing for so long we are now qualified to do everything with anything....
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=275
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=520
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=275
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=520