Setters?

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codym
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Setters?

Post by codym » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:25 am

Well I have been wanting to get a setter for a long time. Recently I have been becoming more serious about getting a few pups and finding out what the breed is all about. The problem is I have seen few setters and I know very little about the lines availible out there. The type of dog I'm looking for has to have a big nose, snappy (I like smaller dogs 35-45 lbs), good style, bidability, and tons of bottom. I need a dog that can handle the heat ( this is why I'm told there aren't many setters in the southwest). I'm looking for a dog I can campaign in NSTRA and that will also be a good wild bird dog, So a bird finder is proably my most valued trait next to nose. Now with all that being said a couple of dog that have caught my attention are Tomoka's Smoking J.R. and Tricky "bleep" Luke. I haven't seen these dogs nor have I been able to get much info on either of them. I would appreciate any info on these two dogs, other lines, good gyps, and any other info that can help point me in the direction of a good breeding. I appreciate the help.

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PntrRookie
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Re: Setters?

Post by PntrRookie » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:42 am

Cody, reach out to these guys. They have setters and know what it takes to handle the heat and have been around them for a good long while. They may not be NSTRA guys, but they have some quality dogs

Jack Elliott http://www.settersunlimited.com/kennel.aspx?a=3 - TN
Paul Grogger http://www.settersunlimited.com/kennel.aspx?a=8 - AZ
Robert Barker http://www.settersunlimited.com/kennel.aspx?a=2 - OK
Larry Carpenter http://www.carpentersenglishsetters.com/index.html - MO
Jason Patty http://www.skyviewsetters.com/index.php - KS
Scott Berg http://www.settersunlimited.com/kennel.aspx?a=1 - MN

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Wenaha
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Re: Setters?

Post by Wenaha » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:36 am

Please do your research. The list that PointerRookie posted is a very good start. I highly recommend Berg Brothers (Scott Berg) - he may be the most consistent of the breeders listed. I know Scott, have seen his dogs and pups, and his kennels. An excellent operation.

You should also consider Eric and Mardelle Mauck at Tekoa Mountain Kennels in Boring, Oregon. The pups from Eric's great AF CH Tekoa Mountain Patriot have been truly excellent bird dogs.
Last edited by Wenaha on Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Setters?

Post by Kmack » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:48 am

Talk to Charles at http://highcottonllewellins.com/.

I think he breeds for exactly what you seek. Plus he is a great guy...

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Re: Setters?

Post by SetterNut » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:36 pm

Kmack wrote:Talk to Charles at http://highcottonllewellins.com/.

I think he breeds for exactly what you seek. Plus he is a great guy...

I 2nd Highcotton, Charles knows his stuff. Here is my pup from him backing at 3.5 months
The little guy has a big nose on him
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Re: Setters?

Post by Garrison » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:43 pm

Very happy so far with my Setter from Long Gone Setters Breeding. Worth a look.


I attached an article about Lloyd's dogs done by Purina.

http://www.longgonesetters.com/purina/article.pdf
Last edited by Garrison on Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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codym
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Re: Setters?

Post by codym » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:48 pm

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I will start researching some of these kennels and dogs. Any other opinions are appreciated.

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Re: Setters?

Post by smoothbean » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:46 pm


Croix
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Re: Setters?

Post by Croix » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:31 pm

Don't know about others listed. But Berg bros , Ben and Scott Berg are a first class outfit. Very informative and proven. My 2 cents.

codym
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Re: Setters?

Post by codym » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:36 am

So I guess no one has had any experience with the two dogs I listed? Also what are some of the lines of setters? Tekao(sp) seems to be one, what are some of the others,are they as pronounced as in ep's (i.e. fiddler, miller, elhew, etc...)? Also do most of you include lewellins and rymans as different lines or as a different breed all together? I always thought they were more of a different breed, but like I said I have very little experience with these dogs.

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Re: Setters?

Post by Wenaha » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:14 pm

I do not know the two dogs that you listed. Are they FDSB registered?

Lines of setters... Tekoa Mountain Sunrise has been the primary influential stud dog over the last 20 years or so. He was a horseback all-age dog that won 11 AF championships. This line has been crossed with other lines (Crockett, Commander, and Grouse Ridge/Smith) to produce dogs winning in every venue - Horseback AA and SD, walking, cover(grouse trial) dogs, and NSTRA. Examples from these crosses are See Johnny Run, Tekoa Mtn. Patriot, Hick's Rising Sun, Hamilton's Blue Diamond, and many others.

Smith dogs have been influential and won a lot in horseback shooting dog trials over the last 30 or more years. Tomoka was a Smith dog, as were The Performer, Destinaire, Branningan, Affirm, and others. Smith setters were the product of a life long commitment by Elwin and Inez Smith.

Ryman dogs were bred to look good and hunt, developed by breedinga bench type dog to promoinent ES trial dogs, mainly Sport's Peerless Pride. But George Ryman has been dead for decades, so what is called Ryman now are not really Ryman dogs, without his hand in the breeding.

All field bred English setters have some Llewellin blood, but Llewellins are the result of an effort to keep this blood 'pure' but avoiding any outcrossing. All 'true' Llewellins are FDSB registered. IMO, they are no better, and often not as good, as other field bred English setters.

If I were you, I would find the best setter bird dog puppy possible, expose it to lots of wild birds, get it fully trained and then, if you want to run NSTRA or other 'run and gun' events bend the dog's training in that direction. You do not need an especially fast, big running dog for NSTRA.
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Re: Setters?

Post by Gertie » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:37 pm

Tomoka's Smokin J.R. was this year's NSTRA dog of the year so if you're interested in NSTRA then that's probably a good place to start. Don't know about the other dog you mentioned. I've visited the Tekoa Kennel in Boring, OR and it's a great kennel with outstanding dogs that are trial proven (mostly AF I believe). Sounds like there are plenty of good options out there. Good luck.
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Re: Setters?

Post by AzDoggin » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:37 pm

SetterNut wrote:
Kmack wrote:Talk to Charles at http://highcottonllewellins.com/.

I think he breeds for exactly what you seek. Plus he is a great guy...

I 2nd Highcotton, Charles knows his stuff. Here is my pup from him backing at 3.5 months
The little guy has a big nose on him
Image
Third for HighCotton.

Hey Setternut - is your pup out of Lizzie? Man I love that dog...

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SetterNut
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Re: Setters?

Post by SetterNut » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:58 pm

AZDoggin

Yep, Lizzy and HighCotton Buck :D
I really like what I see in him so far, run, nose, point, natural back and looks like pretty good heat tolerance. Hope I don't screw up!
He is also the best dog in the house I have ever had.
Steve

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AzDoggin
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Re: Setters?

Post by AzDoggin » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:18 pm

SetterNut wrote:AZDoggin

Yep, Lizzy and HighCotton Buck :D
I really like what I see in him so far, run, nose, point, natural back and looks like pretty good heat tolerance. Hope I don't screw up!
He is also the best dog in the house I have ever had.
Oh, man, congratulations!! I was actually in line for one of those pups, but my retirement timeline shifted on me so Charles graciously let me opt out.

Charles had said that his dogs handle the heat pretty well (likely better than I do...).

I have heard and read nothing but positives on Charles and his dogs. You made a wise decision.

Georgeous dog.

Envious in Az.

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SetterNut
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Re: Setters?

Post by SetterNut » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:24 pm

AzDoggin wrote:
SetterNut wrote:AZDoggin

Yep, Lizzy and HighCotton Buck :D
I really like what I see in him so far, run, nose, point, natural back and looks like pretty good heat tolerance. Hope I don't screw up!
He is also the best dog in the house I have ever had.
Oh, man, congratulations!! I was actually in line for one of those pups, but my retirement timeline shifted on me so Charles graciously let me opt out.

Charles had said that his dogs handle the heat pretty well (likely better than I do...).

I have heard and read nothing but positives on Charles and his dogs. You made a wise decision.

Georgeous dog.

Envious in Az.

Thanks, Indy is really what I was looking for.

Charles is fantastic, and he knows what he is doing when breeding. Hope my training can do this pup justice.
Steve

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Re: Setters?

Post by checkcord » Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:21 pm

Tricky "bleep" Luck is a Bill Moore dog. He has had some great setters. Tomoka Smokin Jr is Wes Barrs dog very nice setter. There is also Greg Woods with Tomoka Smokin kennels in Ky. If you want to run NSTRA you need a dog that can find birds, run big when you need him to and come in when you tell him. They have to hunt the whole time they are on the ground. They have to have style and brains. A lot of dogs have the run but not the bird finding ability. Not all of the dogs in AF are suitable for NSTRA. Elhew pointers on the Norm don't get it done like Honky Tonk or Crows little Joe. So my point is don't buy all the AF hype. Buy a pup from a NSTRA breeder because he's breeding for that game not horseback or coverdog. Good Luck!

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Re: Setters?

Post by gmanksu » Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:25 pm

If you are after setters in NSTRA talk to Wes Barr, check the NSTRA website he should be listed on there somewhere.

codym
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Re: Setters?

Post by codym » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:01 pm

Thanks for all the info. Checkcord I have several pointers out of that HTA x CLJ cross and I agree w/you 100% that they straight up bird finders and I'm very pleased with them. I will be running a couple in NSTRA this year. I'm hoping to find a line of setters with some of the same characterists my pointers have (i.e. big noses, drive, hard hunting, etc....) but with the setter beauty and style. Just trying to broaden my horizons a little.

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Re: Setters?

Post by checkcord » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:22 pm

I run setters and would love to find what you are looking for. I think my next setter for NSTRA is coming from Greg Woods or Bill Moore. Because their dogs seem to be able to compete at the national level. Just my opinion!

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Re: Setters?

Post by solon » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:29 am


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Re: Setters?

Post by Setters4ever » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:32 am

I've got a 7 month old pup from berg bros. She is a great dog that has it all for finding birds and the training process.
Also have an older male from grouse ridge. He is an awesome male. Has handled a variety of birds in different terrain. Covers ground quickly and effectively.

Highly recommend both breeders.

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ymepointer
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Re: Setters?

Post by ymepointer » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:55 pm

You may want to check out some of the setters running in the NW region. Mike Sttots has a couple that are REALLY nice, not sure but think they have some TKS in them.

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Re: Setters?

Post by GUNDOGS » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:03 pm

i just recommended jim gourley in the dogs for sale section but i will do it here too, have a look at his site, hes in kansas... give him a call, hes a great setter guy, a very well known NSTRA guy with hall of fame dogs, a very well known trainer too and has just the kind of dogs you are looking for..about 8 years ago we sent a male to him and he sent us a female out of his hall of fame dog SHADES..good luck...ruth

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Re: Setters?

Post by Grange » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:57 pm

Visit this website for several different english setter breeders:

http://www.trialdog.blogspot.com/

These aren't the only setter breeders out there, but it's a good start.

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Re: Setters?

Post by highntight » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:27 pm

codym,

I have run in NSTRA about the last 7 or 8 years in the Mid-South Region against Bill Moore. He owns Tricky "bleep" Kennels. He owned two dogs back in the early 80's that won several National events in nstra. I think Tennessee Tricky "bleep" and Tricky "bleep" Jim. My buddy runs a dog now that's out of Tricky "bleep" Jill and Hytest Skyhawk i believe. I ran against Luke. I will say i've liked several of his other dogs more than Luke. That's just me. I think he ended up selling Luke. He's got two females i've always liked. Lou and Nell. I don't think he's ever bred Lou, but he has Nell.

I made it to the final Hour in last years Mid-South Regional nstra ch. and i ran against Tricky "bleep" Nelle. I was running my old GSP Boss. I believe i ended the hour brace with 4/4 and a back and Nelle had 5/5. She beat me. I had never been in that situation before and i learned a couple valuable things.
Nelle has been a nice dog. I don't know all the dogs behind Bill Moore's Dogs. I know he breeds a bunch of them. He's very knowledgeable of the Setters.
Good luck in your search. Be glad to help you any way i can.

Brett Bryan

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Re: Setters?

Post by birddog1968 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:49 pm

Cover dog breeding produce decent nstra lines, take a look at Grouse Ridge.....

That said I would do a couple years of research before you just jump in to breeding dogs.
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.

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codym
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Re: Setters?

Post by codym » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:22 pm

Im not interested in breeding these dogs im just doing research on which litter my next pup will be out of.

codym
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Re: Setters?

Post by codym » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:26 pm

Thanks highntight I will look more into these dogs. There are very few setters where I live so I don't get to see any of these dogs run. So it helps to get outside opinions about potential dogs and breedings.

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Re: Setters?

Post by birddog1968 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:46 pm

I see, I misread your opening post, my mistake.

Might take a look at grouse ridge....lot of dogs decending from GR and Tomoka running shoot to retrieve in our region.
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.

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Re: Setters?

Post by Ky_field_trialer » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:26 pm

I would to get a Skipper pup from Ed murdcock,skipper is throwing some of the best pups and is a 15x NSTRA champion,or grouse ridge setters are real good search grouse ridge kennels and check their dogs out

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