GSP in Ireland

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GSP in Ireland

Post by dlfl » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:44 am

A friend of mine in Ireland has this great looking fellow Called Oisin. I really like the big block head over many of American GSP heads.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by JWP58 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:09 am

Wow, that looks like half great dane half Gsp!! Beautiful dog though..
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by crackerd » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:38 am

Erin go bracco! - GSP x Bracco Italiano.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by Dirtysailor » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:04 am

dlfl would love to see a pedigree on that guy

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by mcbosco » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:08 am

dlfl wrote:A friend of mine in Ireland has this great looking fellow Called Oisin. I really like the big block head over many of American GSP heads.

Image

Wow that looks like a very short-haired spinner.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:18 am

I think he looks like the typical European dog. Remember they breed hunting dogs for the walking hunter and effiency is much more important than style. But their dogs tend to be bigger and heavier than ours.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:28 am

He is a lovely dog, but too houndy in the flews and jowls for my taste and his ears are a bit small. Nonetheless, he really evokes the basis of the breed and I'm sure your friend is quite fond of him.
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by proudag08 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:38 am

love the look of that dog!

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by mcbosco » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:45 am

Cajun Casey wrote:He is a lovely dog, but too houndy in the flews and jowls for my taste and his ears are a bit small. Nonetheless, he really evokes the basis of the breed and I'm sure your friend is quite fond of him.
The "houndy" is actually more "mastiff", as pretty much all the Euro dogs came at some time from the Romans so you can see it in this dog.

If you all have Facebook, you can see many more pictures of dogs in Europe and many look like this one.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by dlfl » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:20 pm

Here are more.
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by mcbosco » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:31 pm

love it...any idea of height and weight?

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by JWP58 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:34 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I think he looks like the typical European dog. Remember they breed hunting dogs for the walking hunter and effiency is much more important than style. But their dogs tend to be bigger and heavier than ours.

Ezzy
Oh you mean the way it should be?
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by Vision » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:45 pm

JWP58 wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:I think he looks like the typical European dog. Remember they breed hunting dogs for the walking hunter and effiency is much more important than style. But their dogs tend to be bigger and heavier than ours.

Ezzy
Oh you mean the way it should be?
If shooting everything that moves, hunting planted gamebirds, and hunting small fields is your style, then by all means the way it should be.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:50 pm

... I knew that was coming from somewhere
Oh you mean the way it should be?
Those type of statements cannot be defended and they make folks mad...even when I suspect they aren't intended as they come through

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by DonF » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:00 pm

Vision wrote:
JWP58 wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:I think he looks like the typical European dog. Remember they breed hunting dogs for the walking hunter and effiency is much more important than style. But their dogs tend to be bigger and heavier than ours.

Ezzy
Oh you mean the way it should be?
If shooting everything that moves, hunting planted gamebirds, and hunting small fields is your style, then by all means the way it should be.
Just because a woman has a lot of class and drop dead good looks, does that mean she doesn't have to cook?

What they do in Europe is far different than what we do here.
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by JWP58 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:05 pm

Chukar12 wrote:... I knew that was coming from somewhere
Oh you mean the way it should be?
Those type of statements cannot be defended and they make folks mad...even when I suspect they aren't intended as they come through
Umm nope, didnt mean to make anyone mad. It was a simple statement. Dummy me thought gun dogs/hunting breeds were developed to hunt.

I am slowly learning around here they have to have "style" to do so....whatever floats your boat. But i dont trial, so i guess i dont get it.

Lets not take this thread off topic. That is a beautiful dog!! And nice looking Brittany too! Those Irishmen might be on to something..
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:25 pm

Vision wrote:
JWP58 wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:I think he looks like the typical European dog. Remember they breed hunting dogs for the walking hunter and effiency is much more important than style. But their dogs tend to be bigger and heavier than ours.

Ezzy
Oh you mean the way it should be?
If shooting everything that moves, hunting planted gamebirds, and hunting small fields is your style, then by all means the way it should be.
It amazes me when someone makes the jump from their opinion of what they like to that's the way they are supposed to be. And how does a dog bred for the walking hunters translate to shooting everything that moves, hunting planted birds, hunting small fields. I keep hearing the AA dog finds more birds and is great for hunting small fields. Just don't think you can have it both ways. But will have to admit I have never seen either type of dog shoot let alone shoot everything that moves. :roll:

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by dlfl » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:49 pm

I have asked about the breeding and height weight.

This dog hunts snipe, pheasant, and red legs/huns. He will have a rabbit shot in front of him from time to time and also retrieves ducks. And yes my friend raises both pheasants and red legs in the wild with supplemented food so to supplement the local birds. They are started in a low fenced area and leave when big enough to fly. His success of keeping a local population is quite good.
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:59 pm

dlfl wrote:I have asked about the breeding and height weight.
I would also be interested in that information. My personal dogs that originate with a half DK foundation sire have produced some that quite resemble those dogs.
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by Vision » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:16 pm

Oh you mean the way it should be?[/quote]

If shooting everything that moves, hunting planted gamebirds, and hunting small fields is your style, then by all means the way it should be.[/quote]

It amazes me when someone makes the jump from their opinion of what they like to that's the way they are supposed to be. And how does a dog bred for the walking hunters translate to shooting everything that moves, hunting planted birds, hunting small fields. I keep hearing the AA dog finds more birds and is great for hunting small fields. Just don't think you can have it both ways. But will have to admit I have never seen either type of dog shoot let alone shoot everything that moves. :roll:

Ezzy[/quote]

in Europe they shoot everything that is legal to shoot when they hunt. I've been there and watched them hunt.

You have never shot everything that moves because you hunt in America, where we tend not to do that. Europe is different.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by DogNewbie » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:05 pm

Vision wrote:Oh you mean the way it should be?
If shooting everything that moves, hunting planted gamebirds, and hunting small fields is your style, then by all means the way it should be.[/quote]

It amazes me when someone makes the jump from their opinion of what they like to that's the way they are supposed to be. And how does a dog bred for the walking hunters translate to shooting everything that moves, hunting planted birds, hunting small fields. I keep hearing the AA dog finds more birds and is great for hunting small fields. Just don't think you can have it both ways. But will have to admit I have never seen either type of dog shoot let alone shoot everything that moves. :roll:

Ezzy[/quote]

in Europe they shoot everything that is legal to shoot when they hunt. I've been there and watched them hunt.

You have never shot everything that moves because you hunt in America, where we tend not to do that. Europe is different.[/quote]

What about Texas? :mrgreen:

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by Garrison » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:46 pm

What about Texas? :mrgreen:[/quote]

That was worth the price of admission! Too funny, but my family in Texas would disagree with the having to move part.
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by ultracarry » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:00 pm

It's funny how us Americans have dogs that can run twice as fast and two times longer but they they might look a little more thin and faster... who'd have thought.

AA dogs and HB gun dogs will never live to the low standards of some on this forum..

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:47 pm

ultracarry wrote:It's funny how us Americans have dogs that can run twice as fast and two times longer but they they might look a little more thin and faster... who'd have thought.

AA dogs and HB gun dogs will never live to the low standards of some on this forum..
Example of what we are talking about. No one has said what was best but rather was talking about the differences till this post and as evryone can see, the fast slim dog is the high standard while the European type dog is the low standard. And it became that way because someone thinks fast and slim is better and all the people who don't agree have terribly low standards.

Why is one so much better that if anyone can't agree with you, their standards are lower than yours instead of just different?

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by slistoe » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:31 am

ezzy333 wrote:I think he looks like the typical European dog.
Ezzy
I have looked at a lot of photos of European dogs over the years and I just revisited it again tonight after this comment. I fail to see a preponderance of dogs with heads like this one - in fact I fail to see anything more than a smattering of them. To me this dog is as extreme in the opposite direction as the thin/light heads on some American dogs.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by crackerd » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:38 am

Exactly right, Scott. The "pointer" part of their name isn't just Anglicized, it's extraneous for some kurzhaars to boot - which aren't worked as pointing dogs in Germany.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by tasi devil » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:47 am

slistoe wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:I think he looks like the typical European dog.
Ezzy
I have looked at a lot of photos of European dogs over the years and I just revisited it again tonight after this comment. I fail to see a preponderance of dogs with heads like this one - in fact I fail to see anything more than a smattering of them. To me this dog is as extreme in the opposite direction as the thin/light heads on some American dogs.
Sli , you are correct. Ezzy that opinion is incorrect, he is not typical, either in Europe or here for that matter.
it's the same as if i was to say all American Shorthairs were similar in type ie. mousey heads, barrel chested, stand out elbows, heading for the horizon. that would be incorrect. don't judge an entire population in a foreign country by one [or a few] photo[s]. as in life appearance & style is not the be all & end all of gettin it done !

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by adogslife » Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:10 am

While that blocky head may be more pleasing to the eye than your typical American GSP -
I do not prefer it and it is not typical of DKs.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by dlfl » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:50 am

Not GSPs but here are some of Des O'Neile's Glencuan Pointers. I know these are not what many here like but I prefer this type of head in pointers, GSPs, and Setters.
Not wrong not right just what I like.

Image Image
Image
Image
Image

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by mcbosco » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:22 am

The EP's above are entirely consistent with the historical appearance and standard of the breed. Not making a value judgement. It is just an observation. The white dog is like every dog you see in old paintings and illustrations from the Victorian era.

The other interesting aspect of the photo is that the dog is carrying its tail exactly the way it is supposed to.
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by adogslife » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:24 am

I know these are not what many here like but I prefer this type of head in pointers, GSPs, and Setters.
This is not the standard for GSPs or DKs.
It may be what you like to see but a dog must fall within the breed standard.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by crackerd » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:34 am

mcbosco wrote:The white dog is like every dog you see in old paintings and illustrations from the Victorian era.
mcb, so you've seen Des' Clumber, Tam? dlfl, if you've got 'em, post up a photo or two of Tam, who's of a breed the Yanks have turned into an abomination called the "snow pig." That's a real Victorian era white dog brought back (in the UK) from nonfunctionality.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by AHGSP » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:35 am

dlfl wrote:And yes my friend raises both pheasants and red legs in the wild with supplemented food so to supplement the local birds. They are started in a low fenced area and leave when big enough to fly. His success of keeping a local population is quite good.

Apologies for detouring from all of the other "valuable information" in this thread, but could you please explain this further, or find out more info? Sounds like a nice alternative to a J.H. to start out the early Spring with, at least on areas like those where I train, where trapping and predator control is practiced with extreme prejudice and there is plenty of good, natural Quail cover. How old does he start them in there? Just feed and water? No heat obviously? Sounds like a similar concept to the "Surrogator" and a lot more practical and the birds decide when it's time to fly. Pictures of his setup please?
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by Ricky Ticky Shorthairs » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:43 am

ezzy333 wrote:
ultracarry wrote:It's funny how us Americans have dogs that can run twice as fast and two times longer but they they might look a little more thin and faster... who'd have thought.

AA dogs and HB gun dogs will never live to the low standards of some on this forum..
Example of what we are talking about. No one has said what was best but rather was talking about the differences till this post and as evryone can see, the fast slim dog is the high standard while the European type dog is the low standard. And it became that way because someone thinks fast and slim is better and all the people who don't agree have terribly low standards.

Why is one so much better that if anyone can't agree with you, their standards are lower than yours instead of just different?

Ezzy

I have been hunting for over 25 years. I have only been trialing for about 10. I have had a couple of AA dogs, and some AKC gun dogs on my string. I don't hunt as much as I used to, mainly because bird numbers aren't what they used to be. It's pretty easy to get caught up in the FT scene because of the people and dogs and competition thing.

With all of that being said, when I go hunting for pheasants in heavy cover I don't use my AA dog, and very rarely use my gun dogs. I go with dogs on my hunting string. Don't get me wrong, I hunt the FT dogs, just in selected light cover or on the praries where I can see them some of the time.

I love my FT dogs, but sometimes, slim and fast ain't what I need, and some on this board will never need. That's what makes GSP's so great, the versatility of the breed!

Doug

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by dlfl » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:51 am

crackerd wrote:
mcbosco wrote:The white dog is like every dog you see in old paintings and illustrations from the Victorian era.
mcb, so you've seen Des' Clumber, Tam? dlfl, if you've got 'em, post up a photo or two of Tam, who's of a breed the Yanks have turned into an abomination called the "snow pig." That's a real Victorian era white dog brought back (in the UK) from nonfunctionality.

MG
Here he is.

Image
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by slistoe » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:53 am

AHGSP wrote:
dlfl wrote:And yes my friend raises both pheasants and red legs in the wild with supplemented food so to supplement the local birds. They are started in a low fenced area and leave when big enough to fly. His success of keeping a local population is quite good.

Apologies for detouring from all of the other "valuable information" in this thread, but could you please explain this further, or find out more info? Sounds like a nice alternative to a J.H. to start out the early Spring with, at least on areas like those where I train, where trapping and predator control is practiced with extreme prejudice and there is plenty of good, natural Quail cover. How old does he start them in there? Just feed and water? No heat obviously? Sounds like a similar concept to the "Surrogator" and a lot more practical and the birds decide when it's time to fly. Pictures of his setup please?
This was a very popular method in the 70's/80's around here (when the gov't was providing F&G clubs with free birds for release). Fence a piece of suitable habitat with 5 ft. high chicken wire and no roof. Put in a couple 45 gal. drums with auto waterers and a weatherproof feed trough with 500 lbs of feed. Once the birds are big enough to fly out they will come and go getting food and water till they eventually spread out so far they quit coming back in. The big problem was hawks and owls -shiny reflectors were the only recourse we had and sometimes the losses could get heavy.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by mcbosco » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:09 am

dlfl wrote:
crackerd wrote:
mcbosco wrote:The white dog is like every dog you see in old paintings and illustrations from the Victorian era.
mcb, so you've seen Des' Clumber, Tam? dlfl, if you've got 'em, post up a photo or two of Tam, who's of a breed the Yanks have turned into an abomination called the "snow pig." That's a real Victorian era white dog brought back (in the UK) from nonfunctionality.

MG
Here he is.

Image

Very nice, purposeful looking for sure. We have a way of taking the history of breeds and inverting it. When the Spinones were first being bred here coat length was much too long and it got to the point where the Italian Club threatened legal action if the dogs weren't renamed American Spinones. Italian imports quickly became the breeding stock here. Thankfully coat length is generally back to standard, although with all the wire-haired's they still vary.

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by dlfl » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:32 am

AHGSP wrote: How old does he start them in there? Just feed and water? No heat obviously? Sounds like a similar concept to the "Surrogator" and a lot more practical and the birds decide when it's time to fly. Pictures of his setup please?
AHGSP PM sent
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:08 am

dlfl wrote:
AHGSP wrote: How old does he start them in there? Just feed and water? No heat obviously? Sounds like a similar concept to the "Surrogator" and a lot more practical and the birds decide when it's time to fly. Pictures of his setup please?
AHGSP PM sent
Is there a reason that the requested info can't be posted for all of us to see?

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by crackerd » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:20 am

ezzy333 wrote:Is there a reason that the requested info can't be posted for all of us to see?
No need to. All you need to know is, apropos Scott's comments -
slistoe wrote:...Once the birds are big enough to fly out they will come and go getting food and water till they eventually spread out so far they quit coming back in. The big problem was hawks and owls -shiny reflectors were the only recourse we had and sometimes the losses could get heavy.
- is that the keepers over there are armed with more "recourse" to keep the losses from adding up. And that the poults that grow into flyers are actually trained to the whistle for feeding time.

MG

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by dlfl » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:15 am

ezzy333 wrote:
dlfl wrote:
AHGSP wrote: How old does he start them in there? Just feed and water? No heat obviously? Sounds like a similar concept to the "Surrogator" and a lot more practical and the birds decide when it's time to fly. Pictures of his setup please?
AHGSP PM sent
Is there a reason that the requested info can't be posted for all of us to see?

Ezzy
I do not have permission to post anything but the picture of his dog.
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by tthaden » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:20 pm

Doug wrote...
With all of that being said, when I go hunting for pheasants in heavy cover I don't use my AA dog, and very rarely use my gun dogs. I go with dogs on my hunting string. Don't get me wrong, I hunt the FT dogs, just in selected light cover or on the praries where I can see them some of the time

I foot hunt Sonny, NFC FC On Point's Son Of The Max, alot. When on foot he handles just like any other foot hunting dog, out no more than 30 to 40 yards with a nice back and forth pattern. It is when you show up on horse back that he turns into a spot on the horizon in the blink of an eye. He is the most versatile dog I have ever been associated with. He does have a nice block head too!!
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Ahumphers91a
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by Ahumphers91a » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:22 pm

dlfl wrote:Not GSPs but here are some of Des O'Neile's Glencuan Pointers. I know these are not what many here like but I prefer this type of head in pointers, GSPs, and Setters.
Not wrong not right just what I like.

Image Image
Image
Image
Image
OMG, to me that is what a EP should look like. I grew up never hearing of a "Hi tail" either. But I do like the high tail. Those pic's almost make me want to switch breeds :wink:

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by proudag08 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:36 pm

Just keep looking at the top pic to change your mind back...

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by Ahumphers91a » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:52 pm

That's why I sad almost :mrgreen:

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by ACooper » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:37 pm

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote: sometimes, slim and fast ain't what I need, and some on this board will never need. That's what makes GSP's so great, the versatility of the breed!

Doug

+1 sometimes you need more than one tool in your tool box!

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by dlfl » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:19 am

Why would anyone run down a dog they do not know. It would be acceptable to say that dog is not what I want. I do not like the bird dogs that appear to have greyhound in them but I would not say it. Each person knows what they like. My friend may not be able to have but one dog and this is how it turned out and he is happy for its work for him. I did not say he would breed this dog, all I said was I like block type heads in three breeds. I would be ashamed for my friend to happen along and see this post as he probably would write the whole bunch of you, know it alls off.

Someone cleaned this up for me. Thank you.
Dіck

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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by birddogger » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:05 pm

Not GSPs but here are some of Des O'Neile's Glencuan Pointers. I know these are not what many here like but I prefer this type of head in pointers, GSPs, and Setters.
Not wrong not right just what I like.
I like the looks of that white dog and while I would prefer the tail a little higher, I love that stretched out point.....It shows real intensity to me! I also like that blocky head.

Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

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ezzy333
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:28 pm

birddogger wrote:
Not GSPs but here are some of Des O'Neile's Glencuan Pointers. I know these are not what many here like but I prefer this type of head in pointers, GSPs, and Setters.
Not wrong not right just what I like.
I like the looks of that white dog and while I would prefer the tail a little higher, I love that stretched out point.....It shows real intensity to me! I also like that blocky head.

Charlie
I agree. Those dogs are very stylish though not quite what I think of as pretty but they sure are intense and eye catching.

Ezzy
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Re: GSP in Ireland

Post by Finn » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:24 am

Hi,

I really have say that the gsp in the first message is not that typical in Europe - actually I haven't seen anything like that before (I mean the head). And the lines in different countries are a bit different althought they are mixed now and then. I come from Finland where most of the hunting area is forest covered with quite heavy vegetation. Therefore there isn't that many english pointers or setters in the forested areas - GSP and GWP dominate there.

"Remember they breed hunting dogs for the walking hunter and effiency is much more important than style."

Yes, they are for walking hunters and efficiency is the first thing when it comes to the continental breeds - the setters and english pointers are another thing and that is why the continental breeds have their own field trials. It is all about hunting - not a beauty contest. But that does not mean they can't run - I think (can't compare of course as I haven't seen any American dogs in action). My own GSP for example is maybe more of the running type - maybe even too fast for the conditions, but not that durable - I think. However, hunts (runs) typically three to five hours a day in forested areas. And by the way weighs about 71 lbs. A link for a picture of him below (from northern Finland).

"If shooting everything that moves, hunting planted gamebirds, and hunting small fields is your style, then by all means the way it should be."

I think most Finns think pheasants as a kind of second class game and they are mostly to prolong the quite short hunting season with wild birds (black grouse, capercaillie, willow ptarmigan etc.). In continental central Europe they don't have the choice we have.

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee3 ... n1/GSP.jpg

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