If you were a betting man/woman

[topher40]

Birdogz-
I am still waiting on the pedigree, what is taking so long?

I hunt from HB because I can cover 10 times the ground that you can when I ride, not to keep up with me "renegade". I am also young enough to still go ALL day walking but why? Riding is much easier and I can still come home at the end of a long day hunting and play with my kids instead of going straight to bed. I would love to have you come out to Kansas and see how the 1% hunt with our "run off's".

[topher40]

I would like to add that my dog, being the big running dog that you detest, will beat your dog to the birds EVERY day of the week. So I guess your starting out with one hand tied behind your back, not the odds I would bet on but its your money! :roll:

[live4point]

I think to make this fair,both contestants should be on foot,and I think it should be kept as simple and natural as can be,only a dog,a hunter and his gun.-No beepers,gps,shock collars,or any contraptions,just a man and his dog.

[Joe Amatulli]

Bring your dog out to ND in late December. We will see how she does. HAHAHAHAHA! Why would I go hunting somewhere that isn't as good as I have it 1 mile from town? You don't get to choose where we go.

Well it looks like the rules have changed, AGAIN. Are we looking for the best bird dog or the most hot air?

"but the bottom line is you are going to need a dog that goes looking for birds and knows how to find them!"

If this is a problem I can fill one of my dog’s nostrils with Vaseline if that will help you.

I can walk, but choose not to, I figure I will max out in an hour and I think my bad knee and the rest of these old bones can handle that, but if your dog is so good I am sure he will ajust as mine will when I am on foot.

quote="Joe Amatulli"]I have $10,000.00 that says my Millie dog (FC, AFC, and multiple AF CH) will limit out way before yours will[/quote]

Since there are people willing to pat for your gas maybe you can get some to put the 10 grand up.

[topher40]

Is it possible that a horse could be an advantage? Say it aint so..................

[JKP]

Because if you didn't have AA dogs to even out the range of the average dogs you would sooner or later end up with mostly bootlickers.

The "truth meter" on this is maybe 50%....no more...but it sounds good. Do you honestly believe that I (and others) don't know what desire is?...toughness?...independence? etc, etc...

Breeders make dogs...not games. Games prove what an intelligent owner already knows about his dog. You learn the value of a dog during the training....not from a score sheet. Folks that "buy" titles or scores will soon learn there is much more.

I ran the Invitational twice...both times the senior judge asked me to hack my dog in so the judges could see it....a meat dog from Vdog breeding...imagine that.....and the DD I was braced with was out of sight most of the time...and there's not one FT dog in the pedigree.

Breeds need FT genetics....but its not the only avenue to a good going dog.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

JKP do I believe that? YES you can breed two of the biggest running AA dogs on earth & lucky to end up with one AA dog in the litter.The rest might not be bootlickers but keep breeding them to each other & see what you end up with.

[Grange]

I think to make this fair,both contestants should be on foot,and I think it should be kept as simple and natural as can be,only a dog,a hunter and his gun.-No beepers,gps,shock collars,or any contraptions,just a man and his dog.

Yeah, and to make it more fair the dogs should be given opportunity to hunt the same area so the hunters should walk in same area. After all it wouldn't be fair to hunt an area where one contestant knows better than the other. Plus isn't this contestant about seeing who has the best dog? In keeping with the fairness idea there should be some rules incase one dog makes screws with the other dog like stealing point or busts a bird instead of pointing. If the dog doesn't have good bird work or proper manners (e.g. backing) then should it really be considered the better bird dog.

Of course when hunting people will see things differently so what happens if the hunters have a disagreement. For example if it was divided find which hunter gets to claim the bird thus get the chance to put the bird in their game bag and limit out first? Again to keep it fair there should be an unbiased person to help address these type of potential conflicts.

What happens if one dog goes on point and the other keeps running? If the other hunter keeps walking then how will he know the first hunter's dog didn't break point and bust the bird. I mean the hunter may chose to shoot the busted bird thus helping him filling his game bag first even though the dog screwed up. The flip side could also be true and the hunter that kept walking would bump a bird themselves but claim the dog pointed it. I suppose there could be two unbiased people to keep it fair.

This sounds like a lot of fun. Maybe we could have a bunch of hunters compete and that way we could really find the best dog. I mean it's one thing to beat one person but beating a bunch of other hunters is more rewarding. The problem though with this idea is that it wouldn't be fair to put more hunters on the same ground as the first two hunters so we'll have to come up with other areas to hunt. But darn what if the new areas don't have the bird habitat that first area it wouldn't be fair to the dogs. I mean would it really be fair for the dogs that are hunting an area where there are less birds because that would make it harder to limit out. Maybe we should also consider how well the dog works the bird to help offset the dogs hunting in lesser quality habitat.

Well now we're getting too complicated. We should get the competitors together and agree on what our goals are. We could draft up the agreements to make sure the hunters understand what is expected of them and their dog during the contest. We could also do this same thing on other types of bird than pheasant. I'd love to do this on ruffed grouse.

This really could be a blast. I've never done this before.

[topher40]

I think to make this fair,both contestants should be on foot,and I think it should be kept as simple and natural as can be,only a dog,a hunter and his gun.-No beepers,gps,shock collars,or any contraptions,just a man and his dog.

Yeah, and to make it more fair the dogs should be given opportunity to hunt the same area so the hunters should walk in same area. After all it wouldn't be fair to hunt an area where one contestant knows better than the other. Plus isn't this contestant about seeing who has the best dog? In keeping with the fairness idea there should be some rules incase one dog makes screws with the other dog like stealing point or busts a bird instead of pointing. If the dog doesn't have good bird work or proper manners (e.g. backing) then should it really be considered the better bird dog.

Of course when hunting people will see things differently so what happens if the hunters have a disagreement. For example if it was divided find which hunter gets to claim the bird thus get the chance to put the bird in their game bag and limit out first? Again to keep it fair there should be an unbiased person to help address these type of potential conflicts.

What happens if one dog goes on point and the other keeps running? If the other hunter keeps walking then how will he know the first hunter's dog didn't break point and bust the bird. I mean the hunter may chose to shoot the busted bird thus helping him filling his game bag first even though the dog screwed up. The flip side could also be true and the hunter that kept walking would bump a bird themselves but claim the dog pointed it. I suppose there could be two unbiased people to keep it fair.

This sounds like a lot of fun. Maybe we could have a bunch of hunters compete and that way we could really find the best dog. I mean it's one thing to beat one person but beating a bunch of other hunters is more rewarding. The problem though with this idea is that it wouldn't be fair to put more hunters on the same ground as the first two hunters so we'll have to come up with other areas to hunt. But darn what if the new areas don't have the bird habitat that first area it wouldn't be fair to the dogs. I mean would it really be fair for the dogs that are hunting an area where there are less birds because that would make it harder to limit out. Maybe we should also consider how well the dog works the bird to help offset the dogs hunting in lesser quality habitat.

Well now we're getting too complicated. We should get the competitors together and agree on what our goals are. We could draft up the agreements to make sure the hunters understand what is expected of them and their dog during the contest. We could also do this same thing on other types of bird than pheasant. I'd love to do this on ruffed grouse.

This really could be a blast. I've never done this before.

Boy range, it sounds like you have just described a trial! There are different rules/agreements/ platforms/ ect that everyone agrees on before participatin! So much from getting away from trials to prove a dog!! :roll:

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Birddogz made the comment about his 14 yr old dog that is blind,& deaf,so he mildly shocks it to call it in.Tell me this if the dog is blind & deaf I don't care how much or how little he shocks it how does it know WHERE to come in to?? Just more of his hot air ALL BS!!
Like a tough guy running around in a bar looking for a fight he opened his mouth once TOO often.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

A contest is a contest call it a trial call it a bet but it's all the samr just that Birddogz wants everything on his grounds by his rules.Like I have said to him before it doesn't take a good dog to find birds where you can trip over them with out one.Find the one bird in a hundred or or more acres!!

[JKP]

JKP do I believe that? YES you can breed two of the biggest running AA dogs on earth & lucky to end up with one AA dog in the litter.The rest might not be bootlickers but keep breeding them to each other & see what you end up with.

Which only proves that you can't breed the extreme...its a by product of breeding good dogs. So my point is....don't you think there are non FT folks that know what good dogs are? Anyone knows that great dogs are very good dogs that happen to get to the right hands.

[Birddogz]

A contest is a contest call it a trial call it a bet but it's all the samr just that Birddogz wants everything on his grounds by his rules.Like I have said to him before it doesn't take a good dog to find birds where you can trip over them with out one.Find the one bird in a hundred or or more acres!!

A good dog should not be disadvantaged by lots of birds. Why would a person be afraid of running dogs where bird populations are good? Again, zero sense.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

No one said that,what they have said is every one that owns a Bird dog well theirs is the BEST.Trials judged by different people puts some credit to it,but then you don't believe that.
Most of the hunting dogs out their have trial dogs some where in their peds.We can't even get Birddogz to post his great dogs peds because they just might show something he has critisized to no end.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Yeah Birddogz so a GOOD DOG would be at a disadvatage by the lack of BIRDS!!!!!?? I think you just ate some more of that leg.

[Birddogz]

No one said that,what they have said is every one that owns a Bird dog well theirs is the BEST.Trials judged by different people puts some credit to it,but then you don't believe that.
Most of the hunting dogs out their have trial dogs some where in their peds.We can't even get Birddogz to post his great dogs peds because they just might show something he has critisized to no end.

Find one post where I say my dogs are the best. Until you can find it, stop with the propaganda. I have good dogs, never said they were THE best.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Birddogz when your not on the computer your hunting right ?? SO when do you TEACH ?? Knida the same question as how does your blind & deaf dog know where to come to when you shock it ??
You have mentioned Jokes on several occasions,I guess something you know alot about!!

[ezzy333]

I have had conversation with Birddogz via PM and it appears he has no intention of providing the pedigrees or participating in the contest he asked for so there is no reason to continue this thread since it was started and developed as a place to just call each other names with no effort to learn anything or to provide answers to the new members we have joining each day.