Foot Hunting/trial range

[ROTTnBRITT]

Went talking about range. What is the average range for a dog working open country and what is the average range if a dog working thicker cover.

From another post. When you do have a dog that adjust according to the cover. How much is there going to be. I wouldnt think a 50 yrd dog in the grouse woods would open up to a 200 yrd dog out in open cover. But I'm not real educated on this stuff either.

[slistoe]

I think that 200 to 50 is probably a reasonable guesstimate of adjustment, but it would be very much dependent on the dog is they would go from 50 to 200.

I have yet to see a bigger running dog that won't shorter in heavy cover, but have seen quite a few than will not lengthen in open cover.

[topher40]

A good dog will adjust to cover. Mine ran like striped a$$ apes on the prairies of South Dakota (past a mile) and were handling. Last weekend was the Kansas opener and the would take a tree line 1/2-3/4 mile and in the CRP fields would be 30 yards away.

[adogslife]

First,let's be clear.
NOT every dog with run will appropriately shorten up in thicker cover and NOT every shorter range dog will appropriately open up in sparser cover.
For a dog with run to shorten up is more taught than inbred. For a dog to open up is inbred, it's called desire.
Too much desire and the hunt is one of constant hacking to reel the dog in. Not enough desire and the dog can be less productive.

Let's be honest: how many of the "closer when thicker" dogs are hunting this way before 5 years old?

Now, let's talk about desire: why is it a dog that runs big has more desire? If the desire is to find birds, why is it that when the dog is released it will run straight out and bypass 100s of yards of searchable cover? The dog will go to likely cover,not by scent but through training,because it can empty cover.
It is obvious, to me, that some owners are more interested in thier idea of style,rather than actual bird finding ability. When bird finding becomes secondary one has to ask - why?
Desire can be strong in shorter ranging dogs. I've seen it.


Now, let's talk style: One way style is judged is by having a dog hold steady, no matter the circumstances.
Style to some, is watching a dog work a bird,use its nose,and intelligence to put game in the bag. Vdogs are applauded for this work,FTs frown upon it.

Point being: no matter the cover a dog producing game effeciently is the dog to hunt behind.

[brad27]

Let's be honest: how many of the "closer when thicker" dogs are hunting this way before 5 years old?

I have hunted behind this AA horse back dog. she went from 800 to 60 without having to be "taught."
I believe this was her first time on wild quail in thick cover. Not bad for a 2 year old dog.

viewtopic.php?f=81&t=32497

[AzDoggin]

First,let's be clear.
NOT every dog with run will appropriately shorten up in thicker cover and NOT every shorter range dog will appropriately open up in sparser cover.
For a dog with run to shorten up is more taught than inbred. For a dog to open up is inbred, it's called desire.
Too much desire and the hunt is one of constant hacking to reel the dog in. Not enough desire and the dog can be less productive.

Let's be honest: how many of the "closer when thicker" dogs are hunting this way before 5 years old?

Now, let's talk about desire: why is it a dog that runs big has more desire? If the desire is to find birds, why is it that when the dog is released it will run straight out and bypass 100s of yards of searchable cover? The dog will go to likely cover,not by scent but through training,because it can empty cover.
It is obvious, to me, that some owners are more interested in thier idea of style,rather than actual bird finding ability. When bird finding becomes secondary one has to ask - why?
Desire can be strong in shorter ranging dogs. I've seen it.


Now, let's talk style: One way style is judged is by having a dog hold steady, no matter the circumstances.
Style to some, is watching a dog work a bird,use its nose,and intelligence to put game in the bag. Vdogs are applauded for this work,FTs frown upon it.

Point being: no matter the cover a dog producing game effeciently is the dog to hunt behind.

There is an awful lot of wisdom in this post, IMO. Thank you for breaking through the generalizations and for doing so without judgement of what is "best" since what is best differs from handler to handler.

[JKP]

Almost any well bred dog will learn the appropriate range if given enough opportunity to learn how to be productive in different cover. NO dog is born programmed to run 300 yds in the CRP and 50 yds in the grouse tangles....just like no dog is born genetically programmed to work pheasant perfectly. The best dogs I have had have had intelligence, great desire AND great natural caution on contact. IMO the greatest deterrent to the development of range for any dog is the the inability of the owner to keep his/her mouth shut and the whistle in their pocket. Dogs learn by making mistakes but being rewarded when its right...mistakes are good for the intelligent, stable dog...bad for the dog that's a headcase.

[slistoe]

First,let's be clear.
NOT every dog with run will appropriately shorten up in thicker cover and NOT every shorter range dog will appropriately open up in sparser cover.
For a dog with run to shorten up is more taught than inbred. For a dog to open up is inbred, it's called desire.
Too much desire and the hunt is one of constant hacking to reel the dog in. Not enough desire and the dog can be less productive.

Let's be honest: how many of the "closer when thicker" dogs are hunting this way before 5 years old?

Now, let's talk about desire: why is it a dog that runs big has more desire? If the desire is to find birds, why is it that when the dog is released it will run straight out and bypass 100s of yards of searchable cover? The dog will go to likely cover,not by scent but through training,because it can empty cover.
It is obvious, to me, that some owners are more interested in thier idea of style,rather than actual bird finding ability. When bird finding becomes secondary one has to ask - why?
Desire can be strong in shorter ranging dogs. I've seen it.


Now, let's talk style: One way style is judged is by having a dog hold steady, no matter the circumstances.
Style to some, is watching a dog work a bird,use its nose,and intelligence to put game in the bag. Vdogs are applauded for this work,FTs frown upon it.

Point being: no matter the cover a dog producing game effeciently is the dog to hunt behind.

Lets be clear? Obviously you can see in the mud you are looking through. I can't.
There is nothing here but ridiculous, unfounded and wrong assertions.
I have yet to own, work with or meet a dog that did not naturally shorten up in heavier cover. Whether the result was short enough to satisfy some would be debatable, but near every dog will shorten without any training.
You contradict yourself on the desire thing. Where did you pull that silliness about running past 100s of yards of cover from? Dogs need to hunt their way out. Unfortunately many folks do not recognize a dog as hunting if it doesn't snuffle dirt and rerun the cover 5 times. (how is that for a stupid assertion to match yours?)
And the clincher - FT's frown on dogs that work birds intelligently. HUH??????
Why don't you just get out and go hunting, enjoy your dog working the field and quit sniping/griping about things you have no knowledge of to try and make yourself somehow feel better or more important or something.

[Sharon]

A good dog will adjust to cover. Mine ran like striped a$$ apes on the prairies of South Dakota (past a mile) and were handling. Last weekend was the Kansas opener and the would take a tree line 1/2-3/4 mile and in the CRP fields would be 30 yards away.

striped a$$ apes ?

[slistoe]

Ive personally seen dogs, of the same breed even, run right by birds, that a more methodical dog did not miss.

I've personally seen balls to the wall screamers lock up on birds directly after a "methodical" dog was done with a piece of cover.
Did that prove one was superior to the other? Not at all. Simple illustration of the fact that not every dog is going to find every bird every time.

Of course some dogs are better bird finders than others and will consistently be on birds - but that is irrespective of working style.

[adogslife]

This has become aggressive/competitive.
If someone is incapable of debating,don't post.

Where did you pull that silliness about running past 100s of yards of cover from

Youtube shows several videos of dogs at the break away who are passing cover that if it were a hunting situation should be searched.

I have yet to own, work with or meet a dog that did not naturally shorten up in heavier cover

Listen - whatever you say. I'm not going to agrue with utter nonsense. Never? Really? Never?

And the clincher - FT's frown on dogs that work birds intelligently. HUH??????

Ok, so if a dog goes on point,relocates on its own,has its nose to the ground,working scent,working an area for 1-2 minutes,picking up wind before it goes on point, the judges will place this dog? WHat if the bird decided to run under the dog while this is happening -is the judge going to place a dog who works that runner and pins it or produces it for the gun and stops to the flush? Is anyone shooting birds at FTs? Is there a gun being held by anyone? How much hunt like behavior is being displayed by the handlers?
Maybe I'm wrong.

Go to any vdog event. Birds are worked,shot and retreived.

The best way to judge a hunting dog's inherent traits is to judge a dog hunting.
FTs are geared toward specialty work. Work that traditionally had to be completed by a retriever breed.

Vdogs tests are geared for a well rounded game finder.

It's the way I hunt.
I don't remember asking for your approval.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

aDogslife,

I look at this as a genetic imprint, breeders breed dogs for different jobs. I do not look at this as a range specific genetic difference in dog types.
I have Gordon Grouse dogs who cover more area than most FT breeds, with their 400 yard swings thru the big Grouse mountains in Potter/Tioga.
Its not range that matters, its bidability and the brains to become a companion hunter, that makes the dogs different than each other.
My gun dogs are companion Grouse dogs for foot hunting. We work with breeders who repetatively supply these proven Grouse dogs, from many different breed lines.
To me Range is not really the genetic difference in the dogs bred for different work. Bidability and brains are the big difference, all great gun dogs must have desire
whether the gun dog was bred for actual Hunting, or Trialing. Range differs with different breeds and sometimes even within breed lines, as breeders specialize their lines for their intended jobs.
RGD/Dave

[slistoe]

This has become aggressive/competitive.
If someone is incapable of debating,don't post.

Where did you pull that silliness about running past 100s of yards of cover from

Youtube shows several videos of dogs at the break away who are passing cover that if it were a hunting situation should be searched.

Do you have a link so we can see what you are talking about?

I have yet to own, work with or meet a dog that did not naturally shorten up in heavier cover

Listen - whatever you say. I'm not going to agrue with utter nonsense. Never? Really? Never?

Yeah, that is what I said. Never. But that would only be a sampling of a few hundred dogs. Your definition of short/shorter may differ from mine.

And the clincher - FT's frown on dogs that work birds intelligently. HUH??????

Ok, so if a dog goes on point,relocates on its own,has its nose to the ground,working scent,working an area for 1-2 minutes,picking up wind before it goes on point, the judges will place this dog?

Well, I did win first place with a dog that relocated 4 times on a running bird before I got a successful flush.

WHat if the bird decided to run under the dog while this is happening -is the judge going to place a dog who works that runner and pins it or produces it for the gun and stops to the flush?

Ah, you got me there. In this game a dog with manners will never intentionally flush game. It is the end of the run/game over/lights out. But isn't trainability a trait to be selected for? I have seen the dog who stands tall and proud while the bird runs under his belly without so much as a flinch towards it. I have also seen many dogs whose training was not up to snuff and they went home at that point.

Is anyone shooting birds at FTs? Is there a gun being held by anyone? How much hunt like behavior is being displayed by the handlers?
Maybe I'm wrong.

You are wrong. No one needs to shoot a bird to find out how adept a dog is at searching for, finding and getting them pointed. Hunt like behavior in the handlers? Funny thing is when I entered my first trial I didn't consciously do anything different because it was a trial and not hunting. Didn't seem to hurt the placements any.

Go to any vdog event. Birds are worked,shot and retreived.

Go to any Hunt Test and it is the same. Then check the pedigrees of the dogs that pass the VC and the MH.

The best way to judge a hunting dog's inherent traits is to judge a dog hunting.

No, the best way is to break those traits down to the essence of their being and devise a test that will push them to the limit of their ability and beyond.

FTs are geared toward specialty work. Work that traditionally had to be completed by a retriever breed.

Yes, they are geared toward the successful searching, finding and pointing of game in an aesthetically pleasing manner over a duration of time. As for your second sentence I can fix that misunderstanding for you "Work that traditionally was completed by a retriever breed in some locales."

Vdogs tests are geared for a well rounded game finder.

It's the way I hunt.
I don't remember asking for your approval.

I approve fully of whatever manner it is in which you hunt - as long as you are abiding by the laws and regulations in place.

[slistoe]

Ive personally seen dogs, of the same breed even, run right by birds, that a more methodical dog did not miss.

I've personally seen balls to the wall screamers lock up on birds directly after a "methodical" dog was done with a piece of cover.
Did that prove one was superior to the other? Not at all. Simple illustration of the fact that not every dog is going to find every bird every time.

Of course some dogs are better bird finders than others and will consistently be on birds - but that is irrespective of working style.

Many, Many dogs outrun their oses, some simply 'TO RUN'
Ive no use for them.
I want and own a dog that hunts FOR me and to bag game. We dont pass up game or run by game.

But We have found cripples left by others for dead and hunted fields after others and turned up birds.
Wish I had $100 bill for every crippled phez and duck we've brought back that others left for dead by other hunters and their dogs.

There certainly are dogs that "outrun their noses", some of them don't even have to be going very fast. But do not kid yourself about the "We don't pass up game or run by game." Never in my hunting time has the fact that someone just left a field deterred me from taking my dogs and going through it, no matter how methodical their dogs were or how cocky the owners were.

I can sympathize with the found cripples thing. It really blows when the limit is 2 birds and 5 minutes from the truck both dogs show up with crips.

[adogslife]

slistoe,

BRAVO!!!

[adogslife]

Ryan gun dogs,

I'm not concerned that much with range,altho it may appear that I am.
I am concerned with breeding dogs who range with less focus and desire to find.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

adogslife,
You have my respect sir, from the thread subject I believed you were more worried about range than about over all genetics producing great hunting instincts and brains. Many owners today fail to understand the importance of bidability because they have been mislead into thinking that a gun dog must be an independent bird finder
rather than a companion hunter. Great instincts and drive coupled with mental focus and bidability make exceptional Grouse dogs. People who think gun dogs do not reason have little understanding of what is taking place in the Grouse woods, when a dog works as a companion hunter.
RGD/Dave

Play training starts at 8 weeks around here

[JKP]

Hasn't electronics made greater range possible? Collars, beepers, GPS....how did you hunt a 4-800 yd dog in 1955? or find it out in the brushlands?
Yes.... I have a problem with hunting by satellite, hawkscreaming a bird into submission, etc. I don't consider it very sportsman like. I would think there could be no doubt that electronics has created today's "ground application" and without it a lot of folks would want to see more of their dog. How would you find a dog in the grouse woods 400 yds away on point? (Ryman??).

I am concerned with breeding dogs who range with less focus and desire to find.

If you breed the best competitive performers, this won't happen because such dogs don't win.

[ezzy333]

Ive personally seen dogs, of the same breed even, run right by birds, that a more methodical dog did not miss.

So have I and I have seen methodical dogs who never got to the areas where the birds the bigger running dogs found.Except in certain locals out West...range does not equal finds.and neither does lack of range
Nose, smarts, use of wind, and good searching does.

I prefer a close to medium ranging dog that will open up but I will not begrudge a closer ranging dog that finds birds.

Me either, but I find that desire has little to do with range and finding birds has little to do with range either. The advantage of range is the dog covers more ground and many times will find more birds because of that.AND i HAVE ALSO FOUND THAT DIFFERENT PEOPLE LIKE THEIR DOGS TO RANGE DIFFERENTLY THAN OTHER PEOPLE, MANY TIMES DUE TO THE BIRD AND THE TYPE OF TERRAIN THEY HUNT AND THERE IS LITTLE TO ARGUE ABOUT AS EITHER IS GOOD AND ONE IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER THAN THE OTHER BUT NEITHER NEEDS ANYONE TELLING OTHER PEOPLE THAT THEOR PREFERENCE IS BETTER. tHEY ARE JUST DIFFERENT
Ezzy

[Grange]

Hasn't electronics made greater range possible? Collars, beepers, GPS....how did you hunt a 4-800 yd dog in 1955? or find it out in the brushlands?
Yes.... I have a problem with hunting by satellite, hawkscreaming a bird into submission, etc. I don't consider it very sportsman like. I would think there could be no doubt that electronics has created today's "ground application" and without it a lot of folks would want to see more of their dog. How would you find a dog in the grouse woods 400 yds away on point? (Ryman??).

I am concerned with breeding dogs who range with less focus and desire to find.

If you breed the best competitive performers, this won't happen because such dogs don't win.

Who wants a 400 yard grouse dog?

[Wenaha]

Hasn't electronics made greater range possible? Collars, beepers, GPS....how did you hunt a 4-800 yd dog in 1955? or find it out in the brushlands?
Yes.... I have a problem with hunting by satellite, hawkscreaming a bird into submission, etc. I don't consider it very sportsman like. I would think there could be no doubt that electronics has created today's "ground application" and without it a lot of folks would want to see more of their dog. How would you find a dog in the grouse woods 400 yds away on point? (Ryman??).

I am concerned with breeding dogs who range with less focus and desire to find.

If you breed the best competitive performers, this won't happen because such dogs don't win.

Who wants a 400 yard grouse dog?

I have a couple, and I love them. We kill a lot of sharp-tailed GROUSE.

[cjuve]

Went talking about range. What is the average range for a dog working open country and what is the average range if a dog working thicker cover.

From another post. When you do have a dog that adjust according to the cover. How much is there going to be. I wouldnt think a 50 yrd dog in the grouse woods would open up to a 200 yrd dog out in open cover. But I'm not real educated on this stuff either.

In wide open country it really depends on the distance between objectives and the type of birds that you are hunting. For myself hunting chukar the dog should cast from one objective to another not wasting time and energy in the unlikely spots. The objectives could range anywhere from 200 yds out to 800 yds it just depends on the country and the rate that the handler pushes the dog through it. Off of horseback you are going to push the dog through the country a lot faster than if you were on foot.

[Grange]

I have a couple, and I love them. We kill a lot of sharp-tailed GROUSE.

Not the type of grouse he's talking about. I thought when he wrote woods that would have been clear. I'm still curious to find out who wants a 400 yard grouse dog IN THE WOODS.

[terrym]

In the cover that I hunt grouse in a 400 or even 100 yd ranging dog will get you zero birds. Most times you lose sight of the dog witin 30-40 yds. Of course I am talking about ruffed grouse not Westernn birds like Huns/sage/sharpies. The hunting conditions of the West have very little similarities to Eastern timber cover. Next seson I will be running a Garmin 320 as my best bird cover is quite thick even after the leaves have dropped.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Does loosing site of your dog mean it can't find birds?

[cjuve]

Does loosing site of your dog mean it can't find birds?

Nope but it usually puts people in panic mode because they don't know what the dogs are doing and don't trust them

[ultracarry]

Does loosing site of your dog mean it can't find birds?

Nope but it usually puts people in panic mode because they don't know what the dogs are doing and don't trust them

Bingo!

[gonehuntin']

My own personal dog now hunts at 80 yards in the grouse woods, a maximum of 200 yards on the prairie. I, personally, don't like huge running dog's. I feel like I kill more birds with a 100 yard dog. But that's just my preference and feeling.

What I've found is that on the prairies, when a dog points 200-300 yards out, the pheasant will be gone by the time I get there, or the dog will be relocating on the bird. Same in the grouse woods. I feel that the faster I get to the birds, the more birds I shoot. At.

I never worry about finding the dog anymore since I run an Astro on her.

[JKP]

Does loosing site of your dog mean it can't find birds?

Nope but it usually puts people in panic mode because they don't know what the dogs are doing and don't trust them

Some are...but this is a little smug for me. Don't know about you, but after the easy juvenile birds have been thinned out, few mature birds sit and wait for 10-15 minutes until you find your dog. After October, pointed sharpies beyond 200 yards ....there is a one in 3 chance you get to them...unless they haven't been shot at or moved before. Phez won't sit unless its end of day and they won't leave the roost. Bobs will sit...that's why they are a great bird for pointing dogs.
But Gambels will run like heck...just a blur of legs across the ground.

I think there is diminishing returns when you have to start looking for your dog on point for very long. I have had very poor results walking 4-500 yds to a dog on point....most of the time you get within 100 yds and sharpies are lifting off and "laughing" at me as they fly. Guess I need to get the electronic hawk screamer.

[Grange]

My own personal dog now hunts at 80 yards in the grouse woods, a maximum of 200 yards on the prairie. I, personally, don't like huge running dog's. I feel like I kill more birds with a 100 yard dog. But that's just my preference and feeling.

What I've found is that on the prairies, when a dog points 200-300 yards out, the pheasant will be gone by the time I get there, or the dog will be relocating on the bird. Same in the grouse woods. I feel that the faster I get to the birds, the more birds I shoot. At.

I never worry about finding the dog anymore since I run an Astro on her.

I can't speak for the prairies because my go to pheasant dog is my lab and she usually stays in gun range. However in the grouse woods I love a wide ranging dog. I'll take a fast moving dog that takes casts out to 200 yards over a closer working dog. Ideally 80 to about 175 yards is my sweet spot, but I've worked birds in excess of 300 yards. I've hunted the same areas (e.g. walk down logging roads) with 4 or more dogs who have plenty experience on grouse and a couple of them are tremendous grouse dogs, but my wider ranging dog consistently out finds these dogs. I don't think she has a better nose or is necessarily a better grouse finder than the other dogs (especially 2 of them), but she covers more ground than the other dogs and because of her speed in the woods she also gets to the bird faster than some of the other dogs. Also the faster the dog the better chance the bird will be pinned thus less chance of the grouse running.

Finding a dog in the grouse woods that far out is not as difficult as some may think. It's not as quick as if I used my beeper or Astro, but I just walk in the direction of the last place I heard the bell and I'll find her standing. It may take a little longer especially in the really thick cover, but I'm not worried about the dog leaving point .

[slistoe]

Also the faster the dog the better chance the bird will be pinned thus less chance of the grouse running.

That works on pheasant, huns and sharptail as well.

[ACooper]

Also the faster the dog the better chance the bird will be pinned thus less chance of the grouse running.

That works on pheasant, huns and sharptail as well.

In my experience the speed and range a particular dog runs has zero to do with their ability to "pin" pheasants.

[Dirtysteve]

Why not hunt both? A bigger runner and a Closer working dog
I think for me what works the best is a bigger running dog 400-800 yards teamed up with a closer working dog 100-400.
It is an awesome pairing for chukars and any other bird we hunt out here. My bigger running dog usually finds more but the closer one really cleans up on the singles.



Closer working dog


Bigger running dog


Results


Oh yeah Both of these are FC's and hunted dang near everyweekend of the season

[Grange]

Why not hunt both? A bigger runner and a Closer working dog

I'm with you on that one. I hunt my wider ranging english setter (though not 400-800 yards in the woods like your dog) with my closer working lab on ruffed grouse and it is a great combination.

Walking toward my setter on 306 yard point on a woodcock.


My lab a week later in the same general area.


Both dogs find birds though it is probably at least 2:1 for my setter most of the time.

[orbirdhunter]

The best example i have right now is my 9yr old gsp. I am pretty unique in the area's that i hunt and it really gives the dogs a chance to adjust range....

When i am quail and pheasant hunting alot of the cover is pretty thick to extremely thick. Thick enough to where a flusher would be handy in alot of area's....tall thick sage brush, lots of brambly bushes etc. in that kind of hunting my shorthair rarely clears 30-40yds from me. She moves slowly, somewhere around a trot speed. She is one of the best quail dogs i have ever hunted over, and i attribute it to her slowing down and carefully covering the area, i believe that quail like this are very easy for a dog to run by, she seems to run by fewer then most...
The next day might find me on the hills chasing chukars, in the open chukar country she typically ranges to about 200yds...now she is in a reasonably paced lope, never a full run though....she actually never hunted at a full run, but she could go 6hrs chukar hunting at the pace she moved....her casts are alot farther and i basically give her her head to pinpoint the birds.
For me 200-300yds is the max range that i like the dog to be when i am hunting...i like to watch the dog work, watch the dogs reactions to wind, catch that little whiff of scent, then close in for the point etc....i have hunted over 600yd dogs and its not my cup of tea, although they found plenty of birds and were great bird dogs, thats just not my personal style...Thats the beauty of it, in the bird dog world everyone can find a good dog to hunt the way that they want.....

[terrym]

Does loosing site of your dog mean it can't find birds?

No not at all. It's just that the cover we have means your dog can be on point and out of "bell/ear" shot and you don't see or hear him and lose an oppurtunity to seal the deal. I look at the pictures posted here and we hunt cover that has no similarities at all. Where we hunt yoy can't see more than 50 yds in any direction except sometimes down a logging trail. The Garmin will solve alot of this problem as it will always tell me where the dog is and if he is on point.

[JKP]

Couldn't call it hunting with the GPS....more like computer games. Sending out the drone (dog) and tracking it by satellite...Yeah...I have problems with it. Its what makes 500-1000 yd dogs possible.

[brad27]

Couldn't call it hunting with the GPS....more like computer games. Sending out the drone (dog) and tracking it by satellite...Yeah...I have problems with it. Its what makes 500-1000 yd dogs possible.

So, there were no 500-1000 yd dogs before GPS?

[adogslife]

There were, that's why a GPS was fitted to dogs.

If the dogs are as good as proclaimed, why the need for a GPS?

[brad27]

There were, that's why a GPS was fitted to dogs.

If the dogs are as good as proclaimed, why the need for a GPS?

For the same reason someone uses one hunting a 100 yd dog in the grouse woods. Is GPS really any different then a bell or beeper?

[adogslife]

Pointless discussion.

What venue allows GPS?

[cjuve]

Does loosing site of your dog mean it can't find birds?

Nope but it usually puts people in panic mode because they don't know what the dogs are doing and don't trust them

Some are...but this is a little smug for me. Don't know about you, but after the easy juvenile birds have been thinned out, few mature birds sit and wait for 10-15 minutes until you find your dog. After October, pointed sharpies beyond 200 yards ....there is a one in 3 chance you get to them...unless they haven't been shot at or moved before. Phez won't sit unless its end of day and they won't leave the roost. Bobs will sit...that's why they are a great bird for pointing dogs.
But Gambels will run like heck...just a blur of legs across the ground.

I think there is diminishing returns when you have to start looking for your dog on point for very long. I have had very poor results walking 4-500 yds to a dog on point....most of the time you get within 100 yds and sharpies are lifting off and "laughing" at me as they fly. Guess I need to get the electronic hawk screamer.

Good dogs will learn to handle the birds and the situatuion, as for taking too long to get to a point........ I have other means

[JKP]

So, there were no 500-1000 yd dogs before GPS?

Wrong question....the question should be how many birds got shot over dogs that were 1000yds away? Satellite hunting isn't hunting......period.

Good dogs will learn to handle the birds and the situatuion, as for taking too long to get to a point........ I have other means

So now its my dog's fault that birds don't wait til I walk 500 yds....like I said, pretty smug. Sentinels see and hear your approach long before you get there. Most of the shooting on sharpies after the first few weeks is on the few juvenile birds that hold back or birds that haven't been pressured. Maybe its different for Chukar.

[slistoe]

There were, that's why a GPS was fitted to dogs.

If the dogs are as good as proclaimed, why the need for a GPS?

I can find my way in the mountains with a map and compass and through the streets of San Francisco with a map. I don't know why anyone would ever even invent let alone offer for sale or purchase a GPS. What were they thinking?!

[adogslife]

I can find my way in the mountains with a map and compass and through the streets of San Francisco with a map. I don't know why anyone would ever even invent let alone offer for sale or purchase a GPS. What were they thinking?!

And this is intended to prove what?
Has nothing to do with hunting dogs.

[cjuve]

So, there were no 500-1000 yd dogs before GPS?

Wrong question....the question should be how many birds got shot over dogs that were 1000yds away? Satellite hunting isn't hunting......period.

Good dogs will learn to handle the birds and the situatuion, as for taking too long to get to a point........ I have other means

So now its my dog's fault that birds don't wait til I walk 500 yds....like I said, pretty smug. Sentinels see and hear your approach long before you get there. Most of the shooting on sharpies after the first few weeks is on the few juvenile birds that hold back or birds that haven't been pressured. Maybe its different for Chukar.

Chukar get wild just like sharpies I don't see how the birds would hear you any less with your dog 100 yds in front vs 400 yds you still have to get within gun range. IMO the sooner you know where the birds are the better chance you have to take advantage of the terrian to get you within gun range.

There is always more than 1 way to skin a cat.

[slistoe]

So, there were no 500-1000 yd dogs before GPS?

Wrong question....the question should be how many birds got shot over dogs that were 1000yds away? Satellite hunting isn't hunting......period.

Good dogs will learn to handle the birds and the situatuion, as for taking too long to get to a point........ I have other means

So now its my dog's fault that birds don't wait til I walk 500 yds....like I said, pretty smug. Sentinels see and hear your approach long before you get there. Most of the shooting on sharpies after the first few weeks is on the few juvenile birds that hold back or birds that haven't been pressured. Maybe its different for Chukar.

Most of the shooting on Sharpies after the first few weeks in on the mature males that are hiding singly in the heavy cover where a good dog will get them pinned and it most certainly is your dogs fault if it cannot hold those birds. As for the large groups with sentinels - put the dog at heel and break out the 22. Learn how to make head shots at 60 yards and you will be able to bag a few.

[adogslife]

100 yards is 300',400 yards is 1,200'.

Do you know what shotgun range is?
I can run to close the gap on 100yards but wouldn't stand a chance at 400 yards.

[cjuve]

100 yards is 300',400 yards is 1,200'.

Do you know what shotgun range is?
I can run to close the gap on 100yards but wouldn't stand a chance at 400 yards.

I not much for running with a loaded gun myself you can do it all you want just hope no one else is around.

[adogslife]

Is that your response?
That I shouldn't run with a loaded gun?
Now, that's too funny.