Gun Dog Forum

DonF wrote:dognubie, don't shoot those birds she put's up. You will teach her to flush birds and in time she'll be out of shotgun range.

Hey Don,

This is my plan right now and I'm interested to see what you or others think. While my pup was searching pretty vigorously the other day, I'm pretty sure it was mostly on deer scent (didn't shock him because I wasn't 100% positive, but this property has a ton of deer on it.) I haven't shot any bumped birds over him yet but this is my thought process. One or two bumped birds won't destroy the pup but maybe it will help him understand which scents we are going after and possibly increase his prey drive for that specific scent. After shooting 1 or 2 bumped birds I'd stop that all together and start working on his steadiness. Do you think this is unwise of me? Thanks for the advice

Tim

Depends how much fire the dog has and how old the dog is. If the dog has some fire and is finding birds I don't think there is any point in shooting bumped ones.

I always try to look at it from the dog's perspective....

"If I chase a bird up on the air, the big guy over there with the "thunderstick" knocks it down where I can get my mouth on it!!!"

He's six months old and has a lot of fire for birds and animals that he has had a lot of exposure to. I live in the city, so squirrels are actually what drive him the most nuts. They're the only animal that he's started creeping on too. It's tough with such low phez populations this year that I was thinking knocking one or two down could get him to that creeping point faster simply by getting him really excited about the birds, but I can see the contradiction there. The more bumped birds I shoot the less inclined he is to creep.

JKP wrote:I always try to look at it from the dog's perspective....

"If I chase a bird up on the air, the big guy over there with the "thunderstick" knocks it down where I can get my mouth on it!!!"

I agree with this thinking. My Pointer was running with flushers and started to break and dive into brush because he didn't like the idea of some other dog getting to the bird first. Don't shoot bumps unless you want to encourage the behavor.

Ok, that all makes sense. I'll hold off on shooting bumps. What about missed finds that flush? I'm trying to come up with a negative outcome of shooting those and I can't.

DogNewbie wrote:Ok, that all makes sense. I'll hold off on shooting bumps. What about missed finds that flush? I'm trying to come up with a negative outcome of shooting those and I can't.

The general thought I try to use is if the dog doesn't point it, he doesn't get to retrieve it. So shoot it if you want, but you'll be walking to get it, the dog didn't earn it.

helpful_cub wrote:

DogNewbie wrote:Ok, that all makes sense. I'll hold off on shooting bumps. What about missed finds that flush? I'm trying to come up with a negative outcome of shooting those and I can't.

The general thought I try to use is if the dog doesn't point it, he doesn't get to retrieve it. So shoot it if you want, but you'll be walking to get it, the dog didn't earn it.

At this point it will be running to it so I get there first Am I correct in thinking that I shouldn't discipline him for wanting to retrieve a downed bird in case that takes some of his natural retrieve out of him?

If you want to get him used to the birds u want to hunt then take him to a game preserve and put some phez down if he rips them let them fly and mark where they go down. If he chases they are gone. If he points them whack em' at 6mo he is to old to just toss birds to him in the yard but if you need to get contacts and don't have wild birds that's the best I know to offer ya.


Jim

jimbo&rooster wrote:If you want to get him used to the birds u want to hunt then take him to a game preserve and put some phez down if he rips them let them fly and mark where they go down. If he chases they are gone. If he points them whack em' at 6mo he is to old to just toss birds to him in the yard but if you need to get contacts and don't have wild birds that's the best I know to offer ya.


Jim

Yeah, I can see that being a great training tool, but for $8 - $10 a phez that's one training session I can't afford The grouse population is much better than phez, so maybe I just need to get up north for some late season ruffs!

It is OK to shoot a bird that you flush or any bird the dog does,t flush. That's how it finds out what you are hunting.

Ezzy

[/quote]

Yeah, I can see that being a great training tool, but for $8 - $10 a phez that's one training session I can't afford [/quote]

Holy crap!!! I need to move to Minnesota. $8-$10 for a pheasant? Here in Northern California it's $25 for a phez. If you buy a 50 bird card you can get them for $23 a bird.

mxdad777 wrote:

Yeah, I can see that being a great training tool, but for $8 - $10 a phez that's one training session I can't afford [/quote]

Holy crap!!! I need to move to Minnesota. $8-$10 for a pheasant? Here in Northern California it's $25 for a phez. If you buy a 50 bird card you can get them for $23 a bird.[/quote]

Wow, that's steep. What do you pay for pigeons?

DogNewbie wrote:

mxdad777 wrote:

Yeah, I can see that being a great training tool, but for $8 - $10 a phez that's one training session I can't afford

Holy crap!!! I need to move to Minnesota. $8-$10 for a pheasant? Here in Northern California it's $25 for a phez. If you buy a 50 bird card you can get them for $23 a bird.[/quote]

Wow, that's steep. What do you pay for pigeons?[/quote]
I trap my own pigeons, but if I were to buy them $5 is the going rate.

DogNewbie wrote:

DonF wrote:dognubie, don't shoot those birds she put's up. You will teach her to flush birds and in time she'll be out of shotgun range.

Hey Don,

This is my plan right now and I'm interested to see what you or others think. While my pup was searching pretty vigorously the other day, I'm pretty sure it was mostly on deer scent (didn't shock him because I wasn't 100% positive, but this property has a ton of deer on it.) I haven't shot any bumped birds over him yet but this is my thought process. One or two bumped birds won't destroy the pup but maybe it will help him understand which scents we are going after and possibly increase his prey drive for that specific scent. After shooting 1 or 2 bumped birds I'd stop that all together and start working on his steadiness. Do you think this is unwise of me? Thanks for the advice

Tim

As usual, a few won't agree with me on this, but I am telling you it won't hurt a thing, and may even help, if that is what you decide to do. It would be different if you were making a habit of it. This stuff isn't as complicated as it is sometimes made out to be.

Charlie

6 month old dog, 1st season in the field - I will try to knock down any bird in the vicinity of the pup. I don't care how it got airborne. Once the pup is dialed in on the birds I will be choosey - no point, no bird - but the dog can do no wrong and if I have to watch it rip birds all season and stare at flyaways so be it - the more it finds the better.

As for birds I flush and the dog doesn't - fire away. If the dog is anywhere around they can have at it with the bird. Unless they are being rough with it I will be in no real hurry to get it away from them either.

Holy crap!!! I need to move to Minnesota. $8-$10 for a pheasant? Here in Northern California it's $25 for a phez. If you buy a 50 bird card you can get them for $23 a bird.

Pheasants are 14 dollars per bird here.

Charlie

birddogger wrote:

Holy crap!!! I need to move to Minnesota. $8-$10 for a pheasant? Here in Northern California it's $25 for a phez. If you buy a 50 bird card you can get them for $23 a bird.

Pheasants are 14 dollars per bird here.

Charlie

$25 here.

We give 17 apiece for phez around here....

Jim

I think 16 to 20 is the going rate around here this year. But remember we are in the heart of the best grain production area in the world and because of that we are about the cheapest on feed and have less transportation to pay for. Others aren't as lucky on cost but most have more native birds than we do.

Ezzy

Interesting conversation, a lifetime of enjoyment of the dog and with the dog gets changed over a $10 bird, I would venture to say more dogs have been misled in their training by the owner/hunter afraid the bird is going to get away. ????????

The training of a dog to do the right thing with birds is a lifelong process, when they do it correctly they just get better and better,

In the old Charles Morgan book from the 40's, the pup needs to be a pup, the correct instincts in a well bred dog does not need a killed bird mto heighten those instincts, JMHO.

just what I do not try to do with my dogs. not intended to offend.

Pepper