Dog Bit - Now What?

Grousehunter74 · Post by **Grousehunter74** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:53 am

OK - I've got a WPG that will be 1 yr old in a few days and she bit my 10 yr old daughter on the chin the other day while I was at work. This dog has always been very afficitionate and friendly - but...

It likes to bark at strangers (normal I think) walking down the street.

It is an inside dog and barks at noises outside the house - like a trash can rattling in the wind (normal I think)

It came into it's first heat and then a false pregnancy - which is now over.

Since the dog came out of heat and the false pregnancy, it has begun to show some intolerance of my daughter. I've got two boys, 14 and 16 and of course my wife (who's age and weight are classified top secret... ) I haven't seen it, but my Wife told me about a week ago that my daughter walked by the dog and it growled at her. My kids are notorious for putting their face in the dog's face in an loving way, but we have emphisized this is a no-no, as well as bugging the dog when she is eating. I have also explained that dogs consider the family members as part of the "pack" too and will establish their place in the pecking order.

Here's how the dog bite occured. My son and daughter were playing a board game on the floor. The dog walked through, between them and stepped on the board sending game pieces flying. My daughter yelled at the dog and gave it a shove. The dog bit her chin and growled. My boy grapped the dog - took it outside and my daughter cleaned her cut and the cover-up began as I am sure my kids thought if they told me what really happened - I'd kill the dog on the spot.

I finally found out this morning what really happened and my question is - what' next?

I feel the dog will bite again. I feel the dog will bite only if it thinks it's higher in the pecking order than my daughter. I told my Wife and kids that if the dog ever looks/acts agressive or you think it's about to do so - it's time for a serious dog arse kicking while screaming "no"

I don't plan on getting rid of the dog, but would like some advice on going forward.

Any tips would be much appreciated.

thx

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:02 am

PM SENT....ruth

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:10 am

I think the knee jerk reaction is to get negative with the dog but probably not a long term solution. I would have your daughter become the primary care giver, meaning your daughter should feed and walk the dog, and before putting the bowl down have the dog sit, give its paw, whatever things you have taught it. The dog needs to see your daughter as the person in charge. Food is good way to do it. Another thing, if the dog is sleeping with the kids, end that for sure.

Hope its works out.

Grousehunter74 · Post by **Grousehunter74** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:17 am

mcbosco wrote:I think the knee jerk reaction is to get negative with the dog but probably not a long term solution. I would have your daughter become the primary care giver, meaning your daughter should feed and walk the dog, and before putting the bowl down have the dog sit, give its paw, whatever things you have taught it. The dog needs to see your daughter as the person in charge. Food is good way to do it. Another thing, if the dog is sleeping with the kids, end that for sure.

Hope its works out.

You are right on track with what I am thinking going forward. The dog sleeps in a crate not in anyone's bed.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:29 am

And no rolling around on the floor playing with the dog either. I know it sounds harsh but when you have a dominant dog you have to do this stuff. No hitting the dog though. It could be hormonal too this is a transitional age for them.

All the kids should feed her and hold out until she knows they are in charge. Do repetitive "sits".

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:34 am

Agree with all of the above.

Back to basics. The dog has "miscalculated" his rank in the family pack based on information he has received from pack members. Pack members need to adjust their behavior, and the dog needs to be re-educated, over time.

This article gives good basics: http://leerburg.com/groundwork.htm

Also - having the family watch some Dog Whisperer episodes together can help. Milan has DVD's available, as does Ed Frawley at Leerburg (link above) that specifically address the issues involved. This is a perfect opportunity to educate the family about dog behavior.

Glad your daughter is OK!!!

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:51 am

I take my boys to Bend with me to see my crandchildren. Every trip Samantha likes to take them for a walk to the school and let them run. She's just 9 so I do go with her. The boy's have never so much as growled with her around. If they ever bite her I will find them a new home! I had a client years ago that had a dog that would snap a you when it didn't want to do something. First time it snapped at me it caught real heck. The next time I called the client and told him to come get the dog and told him he should get rid of it. He decided he liked his dog to much and took it home. Few months later the dog attacked his wife.

This is the first bad thing I have ever heard about a Griffon but it's also something serious. I'd find the dog a new home. But make sure also that the daughter didn't do something. Doesn't sound like she did but I'd sure be clear about that.

isonychia · Post by **isonychia** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:54 am

Dog Whisperer episodes

I CAN NOT STAND THAT GUY!!!!! "I rehabilitate dogs and train people" He is so narcissistic it kills me. He probably has a lot of good advice and I used to watch him after I got attacked by a pit bull but I just don't like him, I wonder how he would do training a working dog as opposed to just working on "pack mentality" Maybe he has done that? IDK Did I say I can't stand him? Maybe he is better in real life...

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:46 am

The real question here is if you feel you will be able to trust the dog again. If not...then find a home for the dog, being up front about the history of the dog. It sounds correctable but none of us can say without interacting with the dog.

Than start again...making sure that the dog remains a dog and that all family members realize that a dog must understand its place in the family. Most dogs are far more confident and happy (if dogs are happy) in a well structured environment.

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:16 am

mcbosco wrote:I think the knee jerk reaction is to get negative with the dog but probably not a long term solution. I would have your daughter become the primary care giver, meaning your daughter should feed and walk the dog, and before putting the bowl down have the dog sit, give its paw, whatever things you have taught it. The dog needs to see your daughter as the person in charge. Food is good way to do it. Another thing, if the dog is sleeping with the kids, end that for sure.

Hope its works out.

Exactly what i was going to say.

collinedward · Post by **collinedward** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:31 am

I know some may not agree .. About 4 months ago my small female GSP growled and snipped at our toddler. So immediately I snatched the dog up and wore her "bleep" out. Now if the baby gets too ruff or the dog doesn't want to be bothered she goes in the other room or lays by me..

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:08 pm

collinedward wrote:I know some may not agree .. About 4 months ago my small female GSP growled and snipped at our toddler. So immediately I snatched the dog up and wore her "bleep" out. Now if the baby gets too ruff or the dog doesn't want to be bothered she goes in the other room or lays by me..

I certainly don't disagree at all with what you did here - and it helped obviously.

The difference is that you caught your dog in the act and the dog made the association. In the OP's case, he was absent, so disciplining the dog later would have done nothing to change the behavior.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:30 pm

isonychia wrote:
Dog Whisperer episodes
I CAN NOT STAND THAT GUY!!!!! "I rehabilitate dogs and train people" He is so narcissistic it kills me. He probably has a lot of good advice and I used to watch him after I got attacked by a pit bull but I just don't like him, I wonder how he would do training a working dog as opposed to just working on "pack mentality" Maybe he has done that? IDK Did I say I can't stand him? Maybe he is better in real life...

No doubt Cesar is fond of himself

I don't care about that...he does give good information about humans being leaders around dogs, but yeah, you do have put up with Cesar strutting around like a banty rooster.

He says that he doesn't do dog training - like you said - he trains the humans.

Red · Post by **Red** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:08 pm

she bit my 10 yr old daughter on the chin

I would be finding the dog a new home...

I would have your daughter become the primary care giver, meaning your daughter should feed and walk the dog, and before putting the bowl down have the dog sit, give its paw, whatever things you have taught it.

That's great advice IF the 10 year old can be assertive enough.. Is she?

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:09 pm

Had a red setter that did that one time. After we had a discussion up close and personal he never did it again. With all my dogs, my daughter is used to show that even she is more dominant. We go out of our way to prove it. not one dog in my house won't back out of the food bowl when my 10 year old sticks her hand in it.

Good luck, but if you don't trust it, he has to go. I'm sorry won't work next time.

Joe

DougB · Post by **DougB** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:20 pm

Dog thinks to well of himself and needs to learn different. As has been mentioned, punishment may work if applied immediately to the seat of the problem. Otherwise, a training program that has shown good results is Nothing In Life Is Free. The dog works for everything, is hand fed, and must perform some task to get any food-even just a sit on command. If dinner involves obeying a little girl, the dog learns the little girl is boss.
http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

Grousehunter74 · Post by **Grousehunter74** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:30 pm

jcbuttry8 wrote:I'm sorry won't work next time.

What does that mean?

thx

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:35 pm

Grousehunter74 wrote:
jcbuttry8 wrote:I'm sorry won't work next time.
What does that mean?

thx

It means that if the dog does do it again, you already knew it might happen and kept the dog anyway. I'm sorry is not going to make it all better!

Grousehunter74 · Post by **Grousehunter74** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:41 pm

Thanks everyone for your replies. We'll see how it goes with the dog going forward. In talking to my Wife and kids, it sounds like the dog was more provoked and did not just walk into the room and bite my Daughter. She pushed the dog and yelled at it and that's when it responded. Of course that is still not an acceptable response on the dog's part, but somewhat comforting (if possible) that the bite was a response vs. an premediated attack. I'm still at work today and everyone has been at home with the dog and we will all be with her over the Thanksgiving weekend to see her progress. Right now we are not allowing my Daughter and the dog alone in the same room - someone is always monitering. I also expressed to my Wife that under supervision, my Daughter should (today) begin to feed, simple train (sit, lay down, come-in, etc.) with some reward snacks and as weather permits start walking the dog. I'm still at work, but I am told this is going on every hour or so and that my Daughter has the dog rolling over in exchange for a treat! I agree that the dog needs to be on the bottom of the pecking order in our family "pack" and I think having my Daughter "boss the dog around" (for lack of better words) will go a long way towards training the dog that my Daughter is in charge, but also giving my Daughter more confidence when handling the dog in the first place.

Thanks again.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:52 pm

Use this opportunity to spay her. She had a heat, so that might help as well.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:04 pm

Grousehunter74 wrote:Thanks everyone for your replies. We'll see how it goes with the dog going forward. In talking to my Wife and kids, it sounds like the dog was more provoked and did not just walk into the room and bite my Daughter. She pushed the dog and yelled at it and that's when it responded. Of course that is still not an acceptable response on the dog's part, but somewhat comforting (if possible) that the bite was a response vs. an premediated attack. I'm still at work today and everyone has been at home with the dog and we will all be with her over the Thanksgiving weekend to see her progress. Right now we are not allowing my Daughter and the dog alone in the same room - someone is always monitering. I also expressed to my Wife that under supervision, my Daughter should (today) begin to feed, simple train (sit, lay down, come-in, etc.) with some reward snacks and as weather permits start walking the dog. I'm still at work, but I am told this is going on every hour or so and that my Daughter has the dog rolling over in exchange for a treat! I agree that the dog needs to be on the bottom of the pecking order in our family "pack" and I think having my Daughter "boss the dog around" (for lack of better words) will go a long way towards training the dog that my Daughter is in charge, but also giving my Daughter more confidence when handling the dog in the first place.

Thanks again.

I sure don't envy you. I'd hate to be in that position.

Retiredbirddogman · Post by **Retiredbirddogman** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:40 pm

If it were my dog it would go to another home, with full disclosure on what had happened. I could not live with myself if something happened after I knew the risk.
That is just me, and doesn't mean it is the only right answer. I don't envy your decision.

Vman · Post by **Vman** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:50 pm

I agree with the advice given also, but would like to add to it. You wrote,

It likes to bark at strangers (normal I think) walking down the street.
It is an inside dog and barks at noises outside the house - like a trash can rattling in the wind (normal I think)

Now go ahead and correct me if needed, but it sounds like the dog is a little edgy. Only you know for sure, but dogs that are edgy or always on pins and needles and bark at any little thing lack confidence. It can be genetic or it can be from a lack of socialization. I think having your daughter take care of the dog is good advice, but I would also encourage more socialization in general. Be it you or your wife or children. Try and boost the dogs confidence. Fearful dogs are not trustworthy. Also watch with a close eye. It is easy to make excuses, like she was in heat or the child caught the dog off guard or she is protective of her surroundings, she barks at strangers or noises outside. I would keep a close watch on that dog and if I ever seen anything close too what just happened, the dog would need to go.
Hope it all works out for you.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:05 pm

Good point, Vman, about the socialization. From what little we've heard, the dog does seem a little reactive. As you have said, can't know the reason why...but socialization can help the situation.

Last idea that I haven't seen mentioned yet is to have the daughter regularly take the dog long walks at heel. Make sure dog is trained to heel, and daughter trained to MAKE dog heel. Long walks are then an excellent way to establish leadership...obviously be safe - would be a good idea to have an adult along for awhile until it is crystal clear that the dog is submitting to your daughter.

windswept · Post by **windswept** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:06 pm

I'd get rid of the dog. Find a home with adults only. This will likely come up again. It did with me and I'll never again have a dog that under ANY circumstances that thinks biting one of the humans is a solution to ANY situation.
Good luck and I'm sorry this happened.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:37 pm

No dog, ever, is worth a child's life or disfigurement. That dog would not live in my home. If you want to keep it, kennel it. If not, sell it and tell the new owner what the problems are. Many times, in fact most of the time, an aggressive dog cannot be cured, though it is possible to control them to an extent. They are never trust worthy.

pointshootretrieve · Post by **pointshootretrieve** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:49 pm

A lot of what you are describing IMO paints the picture of a dog that is fearful. Could the dog have been startled by the pieces of the game and fear bit ?

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:06 pm

Are you sure your dog doesn't have a painful hip? You said the girl hit him on the rump (".My daughter yelled at the dog and gave it a shove.") Because she was sitting she got it on the face, otherwise it would have been less serious.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:18 pm

That's the scary part of kids getting bit especialy small kids they get bit in the face.I love my dogs but kids I love more most the time a kid gets bit they caused it but still NO EXCUSE!!

Grousehunter74 · Post by **Grousehunter74** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:22 pm

Vman wrote:I agree with the advice given also, but would like to add to it. You wrote,
It likes to bark at strangers (normal I think) walking down the street.
It is an inside dog and barks at noises outside the house - like a trash can rattling in the wind (normal I think)
Now go ahead and correct me if needed, but it sounds like the dog is a little edgy. Only you know for sure, but dogs that are edgy or always on pins and needles and bark at any little thing lack confidence. It can be genetic or it can be from a lack of socialization. I think having your daughter take care of the dog is good advice, but I would also encourage more socialization in general. Be it you or your wife or children. Try and boost the dogs confidence. Fearful dogs are not trustworthy. Also watch with a close eye. It is easy to make excuses, like she was in heat or the child caught the dog off guard or she is protective of her surroundings, she barks at strangers or noises outside. I would keep a close watch on that dog and if I ever seen anything close too what just happened, the dog would need to go.
Hope it all works out for you.

Actually the dog is quite calm. I had an English Setter one time and that dog was one hyper animal. This dog, to be only one year old, is about as laid back as any dog I've ever seen. Her head is liver color with a tad bit of off white around her snout. If you didn't know better, you'd think she is an older dog. As far as barking, it's not a skidish thing - I consider her barking to be normal for a pointing or lab type dog. We walk her in our neighborhood and take her to a park to run - when not in the woods and so she gets a goodly amount of socialization - mostly with people, not so much with other dogs. Aside from this episode, this WPG has been far and away the best dog I've ever owned or handled.

thx

Grousehunter74 · Post by **Grousehunter74** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:36 pm

pointshootretrieve wrote:A lot of what you are describing IMO paints the picture of a dog that is fearful. Could the dog have been startled by the pieces of the game and fear bit ?

My Wife and I have been scratching our heads on this one. I've had one of my boys attacked and bitten by a neighbors german shepard. The dog had to be pulled off of him. That dog was tied out, neglected by the owners and when it got loose, it made a b-line for my boy. With that dog, it was not a matter of if, but more like when an attack/bite would occur. With regards to this dog bite, based on what my kids have told me - as they were the eye witnesses, it sounds like our dog was startled when my Daughter yelled and gave her a push. I don't regard this dog as an aggressive or mean dog - as others I have seen. Of course that doesn't excuse this incident.

thx

Grousehunter74 · Post by **Grousehunter74** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:43 pm

Sharon wrote:Are you sure your dog doesn't have a painful hip? You said the girl hit him on the rump (".My daughter yelled at the dog and gave it a shove.") Because she was sitting she got it on the face, otherwise it would have been less serious.

I'm pretty sure the dog doesn't have a painful hip. Of course if i catch the dog in as much as taking a mean stare and anyone, it will definately have a very sore arse in short order. My Wife and I though the same thing. She was setting on the floor and her face was face to face level with the dog when it bit, else it might have been in the pants leg.

It's interesting that only a month ago, my Daughter was the main "diaper changer" for the dog when she was in heat. My Daughter would take these disposable baby diapers, cut a hole in them for the dog's tail to stick through and the dog would stand perfectly still for her while she fitted her with a new diaper.

thx

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:25 am

Retiredbirddogman wrote:If it were my dog it would go to another home, with full disclosure on what had happened. I could not live with myself if something happened after I knew the risk.
That is just me, and doesn't mean it is the only right answer. I don't envy your decision.

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:That's the scary part of kids getting bit especialy small kids they get bit in the face.I love my dogs but kids I love more most the time a kid gets bit they caused it but still NO EXCUSE!!

I never thought I would say this Vonz but we finally agree on something.

I had an English Setter I raised from a 6 week old pup to the age of 10 1/2 years old who traveled all over the country with me, I had the dog before I was ever married and had kids, and last year we had a bout of -30 degree weather here for about a week so the dogs were staying in the house. The dog was sleeping on the couch, this was and still is the only dog my wife allowed to do this, when my then 2 year old son went over to pet the dog and she bit him on the bridge over his eye causing a gash that had to be glued and bandaged. I had the dog on a leash on the way out the door to take her out in the country and shoot her when my wife begged for her life and asked me to give her to my elderly parents who have labs and no children so this is where she went. Long story short a dog is never, ever, ever more important than your children no matter how you choose to justify it. If you are going to keep the dog just keep a close eye on it because it will happen again. Best of luck to you and I hope I am wrong.

bhulisa · Post by **bhulisa** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:03 am

I would consider the broader, long term implications of your situation. It's great if your daughter establishes in the dog's mind that she is above the dog in the pack order and perhaps the dog will not ever attempt to bite her again.

But...what about visitors?

I feel the dog will bite again. I feel the dog will bite only if it thinks it's higher in the pecking order than my daughter.

Other children, younger than your daughter?

live4point · Post by **live4point** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:33 am

I know of a little girl who's face was bitten up by a lab and went through several years of surgeries on her face,this was a family dog that had never shown those tendencies.In my opinion you were luckily given a second chance,I don't care about all that dog whisperer crap or being politically correct,if a dog of mine bites a kid,and I don't care how good a bird dog it is,it's gonna be pushin up daisies.There are always other bird dogs,it's up to us as their owners to be smart enough to do the right thing.

jimssetters · Post by **jimssetters** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:23 am

IMO you should also contact your breeder and see if agression is in the genetics of the parents. I fully trust all my setters to be alone with my grandson. I hope your daughters training cures all the problems. Good luck.

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:15 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:
Retiredbirddogman wrote:If it were my dog it would go to another home, with full disclosure on what had happened. I could not live with myself if something happened after I knew the risk.
That is just me, and doesn't mean it is the only right answer. I don't envy your decision.

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:That's the scary part of kids getting bit especialy small kids they get bit in the face.I love my dogs but kids I love more most the time a kid gets bit they caused it but still NO EXCUSE!!
I never thought I would say this Vonz but we finally agree on something.

I had an English Setter I raised from a 6 week old pup to the age of 10 1/2 years old who traveled all over the country with me, I had the dog before I was ever married and had kids, and last year we had a bout of -30 degree weather here for about a week so the dogs were staying in the house. The dog was sleeping on the couch, this was and still is the only dog my wife allowed to do this, when my then 2 year old son went over to pet the dog and she bit him on the bridge over his eye causing a gash that had to be glued and bandaged. I had the dog on a leash on the way out the door to take her out in the country and shoot her when my wife begged for her life and asked me to give her to my elderly parents who have labs and no children so this is where she went. Long story short a dog is never, ever, ever more important than your children no matter how you choose to justify it. If you are going to keep the dog just keep a close eye on it because it will happen again. Best of luck to you and I hope I am wrong.

I had a 5 year old GSP go blind. I didn't know she was going blind but wondered about more cuts than usual on her body when running in the woods. One day a foster child was playing behind her on the couch. She wheeled and grabbed his head. No broken skin but he was scared to death. The dog was alarmed and didn't know what was going on behind her. She was already unhappy as she wasn't able to run any more. I put the dog down. Terribly hard thing to do.My point is , figuring out why a dog bit is crucial.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:36 pm

live4point wrote:I know of a little girl who's face was bitten up by a lab and went through several years of surgeries on her face,this was a family dog that had never shown those tendencies.In my opinion you were luckily given a second chance,I don't care about all that dog whisperer crap or being politically correct,if a dog of mine bites a kid,and I don't care how good a bird dog it is,it's gonna be pushin up daisies.There are always other bird dogs,it's up to us as their owners to be smart enough to do the right thing.

COULD NOT AGREE MORE...ruth

nj gsp · Post by **nj gsp** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:01 pm

I have always been told by guys with wirehairs that their dogs tend to be sharp, but not people I know with Griffons. Griffons I know are all pretty nice dogs.

The setter rescue I have now was obviously abused and beaten by the person that abandoned him. He used to be "bitey" and mouthy and that's how he apparently learned to deal with abuse, aggression, and pressure - in his mind, if he is getting beaten or is frightened, bite the guy doing it and it will stop.

It has taken a long time and a lot of training and conditioning to solve his issues. He'd bitten my wife twice in the first six months we had him - she gets pissed at me when I say it was her fault, but in all fairness it was. The dog reacted the only way he knew how. He's a different dog today than he was a year ago - he's now a sweet dog, he's very affectionate; loves to be loved and just wants to love right back. He's turning into the bird dog I've hoped he could be and I just love him to pieces - but as much as it breaks my heart to do so I've been continuing to try and find him a new home. So far I have been unsuccessful. Nobody wants a dog that bites, or even a dog that used to bite and doesn't anymore (especially my wife). I guess there's always the chance he'll get put in the position where he will be frightened and scared and he'll bite again. Nobody wants to take that chance, not even the local setter rescue group. So it looks like I'm stuck with him.

So all of you who are saying to give the dog away are just talking nonsense - it sounds good in theory, but not in practice. If the dog is aggressive and it either cannot be fixed through training or you are not willing to fix the problem, then just put it down. Otherwise, figure out what problem caused the dog to bite and fix the problem.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:40 am

nj gsp wrote:I have always been told by guys with wirehairs that their dogs tend to be sharp, but not people I know with Griffons. Griffons I know are all pretty nice dogs.

The setter rescue I have now was obviously abused and beaten by the person that abandoned him. He used to be "bitey" and mouthy and that's how he apparently learned to deal with abuse, aggression, and pressure - in his mind, if he is getting beaten or is frightened, bite the guy doing it and it will stop.

It has taken a long time and a lot of training and conditioning to solve his issues. He'd bitten my wife twice in the first six months we had him - she gets pissed at me when I say it was her fault, but in all fairness it was. The dog reacted the only way he knew how. He's a different dog today than he was a year ago - he's now a sweet dog, he's very affectionate; loves to be loved and just wants to love right back. He's turning into the bird dog I've hoped he could be and I just love him to pieces - but as much as it breaks my heart to do so I've been continuing to try and find him a new home. So far I have been unsuccessful. Nobody wants a dog that bites, or even a dog that used to bite and doesn't anymore (especially my wife). I guess there's always the chance he'll get put in the position where he will be frightened and scared and he'll bite again. Nobody wants to take that chance, not even the local setter rescue group. So it looks like I'm stuck with him.

So all of you who are saying to give the dog away are just talking nonsense - it sounds good in theory, but not in practice. If the dog is aggressive and it either cannot be fixed through training or you are not willing to fix the problem, then just put it down. Otherwise, figure out what problem caused the dog to bite and fix the problem.

i think its great you have worked with your dog threw issues and welcomed him into your home BUT there are always deal breakers and more so when you have a family especially kids..there are many times SIGNS that say that biting will eventually be inevitable and those signs have been shown loud and clear with the OP'S dog when he says the dog barks at everything, seems fearful of things just moving outside and barks at them, is afraid of shadows and barks at them ect, this is so obvious that the dog is now taking it to the next level and biting out of being fearful as he is obviously an insecure dog, possibly no fault of its owners.. it is simply luck that it was the OP's child and not someone elses or it would be a much more serious situation..i think what people are saying to the OP is the dog needs to be rehomed because if you have children they are 100% your priority over the dog and no risk is worth taking when it comes to the saftey of a child..in totally understanding the OP's situation, what people are saying here is find the dog a home with say a single guy or gal that can bond with the dog, hunt the dog and be in care and control of who the dog comes in contact with just in case..there are always warning signs ahead of time in these situations and the OP has stated them but also if you read his comments wonders if the signs are normal, i can say no they are not normal and they need to be carefully considered..so in all fairness i dont think people are talking "nonsense" by giving advice to the OP to make a move to rehome the dog before next time it is worse or it is someone elses child, i think most of us have been there, done that and are trying to help the OP not have to have something worse happen before realizing the seriousness of the situation and i also will say as a parent having 5 kids, that i get where some are going with the idea of having the little girl take care of the dogs needs to establish pecking order in the family but that is done with a pup thats stable and just coming into a family and can be trusted imo, not with a dog that now has the potential to cause harm to the child and has already done so, so as a parent speaking here i without a doubt would never ever have my child, especially the one that was bitten in the face then be expected to take care, feed, walk, and train this dog, i mean this is a 10 year old kid and it sometimes doesnt take much for a kids to not ever trust another dog and develope a life long fear of dogs because of being bitten (not to say she will but it does happen) so to say to her now you take care of the dog that bit you just isnt fair, lets just say it was the OP's neighbors dog that bit his kid in the face and she often spent alot of time over there, i think, and i may be wrong, but i think the OP and his wife would not allow their daughter over there with fear it may happen again, jmo....ruth

marysburg · Post by **marysburg** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:39 am

Gonehuntin has it right. Why would you defend the dog and not your daughter? I love my dogs, but twice have removed dogs from our home when I felt there was a threat of a bite to young children.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:55 am

All I can tell you is it would be the first and last time if I had a dog that did this, regardless of the reason.

Charlie

Onk · Post by **Onk** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:58 am

What this dog did is in its mind set! I would NOT trust the dog ever again around any child even with training...you never know when it will relaps! Dogs are just like people, there are good ones and bad ones! Putting a dog over the security of ones child is never worth the risk!

DougB · Post by **DougB** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:23 am

I hate killing dogs. I've done it when necessary, but only as a last resort.

Was it an actual bite, or tooth contact from a swinging head ? I adopted a yellow lab from a broken family. A young couple, no kids, got divorced and the dog needed a home. Out of the kindness of my heart, I volunteered to take in this 2 year old fully trained hunting machine. Mystic was sleeping in a corner when my daughter crept up on him and poked him. Mystic woke up startled and swung his head with his mouth open. My daughter wound up with stitches above her eye and on her cheek. The trip to the hospital and back gave me time to think a bit. On the way to the hospital, I was thinking .22 in the head and a hole in the ground. On the way back, I had figured out that it wasn't a bite and the cure was training. I would wait till Mystic was asleep, and nudge his side with my boot. The first few times, I had a dogs mouth wrapped around my boot, with the dog looking up at me. Never a bite, just ready to if needed. After a few days, Mystic just ignored the nudge and kept sleeping. Only had him 8 years, but they were good years with him.

You may eventually need to rehome the dog, or put it down. But it is frequently worth thinking about it first. Management and training could be a good solution. Local rescues occasionally can recommend experts to evaluate a dogs behavior (most rescues won't work with biters) to recommend training or PTS as the best solution.

midwestfisherman · Post by **midwestfisherman** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:23 pm

Any dog that has bitten a young child should not be trusted with that child again, supervised or not. If you think the dog can't be trusted it should be put down immediately! I don't agree with re-homing a dog that has bitten a person, you're just passing your problem on to someone else.

Brittlver · Post by **Brittlver** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:37 pm

I personally think the dog could be trained. No one except the kids could really tell you what happened and what they say prob. won't be really what happened. We don't know if the dog meant to bite or if it was bite in the first place. Everyone saying that you need to put the dog down are wrong. It would be like me saying that we need to shoot you if you hit someone. You are now a danger to everyone else because you could do it again. Even if it was just an accident. Yes I know humans and dogs are completely different. It is the reasoning behind it. Yes I would say put the dog down if and only if the dog made a decision to go completely across the room to attack. Like the example earlier with the dog on the tie attacking. If we went by the rule that every dog that bites needs to be put down we would not have any dogs around. What about all the puppies that bite. What do you do there. You train them not to bite. Same situation here. You train the dog that it is unacceptable to bite in any situation. Take it to a trainer and let them take care of it. That is what they get paid for. If he/she says they can't fix it or it is a problem that won't stop then make the decision to put it down.

Jesse

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:12 pm

Brittlver wrote:Take it to a trainer and let them take care of it. That is what they get paid for. If he/she says they can't fix it or it is a problem that won't stop then make the decision to put it down.

Jesse

I think you'd have a hard time finding any HONEST trainer that would tell you he could train a dog not to bite. Biting can be a family and dominance issue. A dog may never try to bite a trainer, but put it back in the house and it will bite again.

There are very, very, few people that understand dog aggression.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:14 pm

The decision what ever it might be is totally up to the OP & only he has to live with that decision!

Brittlver · Post by **Brittlver** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:42 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
Brittlver wrote:Take it to a trainer and let them take care of it. That is what they get paid for. If he/she says they can't fix it or it is a problem that won't stop then make the decision to put it down.

Jesse
I think you'd have a hard time finding any HONEST trainer that would tell you he could train a dog not to bite. Biting can be a family and dominance issue. A dog may never try to bite a trainer, but put it back in the house and it will bite again.

There are very, very, few people that understand dog aggression.

I do understand this and have seen a few trainers out there that work strictly at your home with the family around. This puts the dog in a familiar setting with the people around so the dog learns that the humans in the family are on top of the ladder. I don't know if this actually works but I can see how it might help. I agree it is up to the OP and I truly hope everything works out and it was just a careless mistake that will never happen again. Can the OP give us an update on what is going on. I am very interested.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:30 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
Brittlver wrote:Take it to a trainer and let them take care of it. That is what they get paid for. If he/she says they can't fix it or it is a problem that won't stop then make the decision to put it down.

Jesse
I think you'd have a hard time finding any HONEST trainer that would tell you he could train a dog not to bite. Biting can be a family and dominance issue. A dog may never try to bite a trainer, but put it back in the house and it will bite again.

There are very, very, few people that understand dog aggression.

Agreed...and much starts at those little levels that the puppy got away with with the worst excuse I hear ..Oh he is a puppy and will grow out of it...Sorry even a puppy needs to learn mouthing biting nipping is unacceptable.