Any Lawyers out there?

[mcclinj]

So my wife and I just received a letter from our previous landlord that because I violated the lease by keeping two quail or chukars in a small pigeon trap on our deck, that he is using our security deposit to rent a power washer and then reseal the deck for sanitation reasons.

I guess violated the lease by keeping these birds for a few weeks on our porch, I honestly never thought to ask. I cleaned the small area in one corner of the deck where the birds were kept with a 5 gallon bucket of Lysol (maybe Chlorox I can't remember) and then used a broom to scrub with. The deck was already in need of resealing and is covered in mildew and mold anyway.

Anybody think I have a legal leg to stand on, seems to me the landlord is getting a free cleaning / resealing of the deck out of me?

-John

[proudag08]

So my wife and I just received a letter from our previous landlord that because I violated the lease by keeping two quail or chukars in a small pigeon trap on our deck, that he is using our security deposit to rent a power washer and then reseal the deck for sanitation reasons.

I guess violated the lease by keeping these birds for a few weeks on our porch, I honestly never thought to ask. I cleaned the small area in one corner of the deck where the birds were kept with a 5 gallon bucket of Lysol (maybe Chlorox I can't remember) and then used a broom to scrub with. The deck was already in need of resealing and is covered in mildew and mold anyway.

Anybody think I have a legal leg to stand on, seems to me the landlord is getting a free cleaning / resealing of the deck out of me?

-John

Although I am not a lawyer, I am a previous renter. The way I see it, if something is explicitly stated in the lease, and you didnt go through the proper channels, youe legal leg is broken. Forget common sense ina court of law... sad but true! Sorry to hear this bro!

[nikegundog]

How long did your landlord know about the birds before he called you on breach of contract?

[mcclinj]

He saw them there some time before, but never said anything to me about it. I didn't even think to ask, since they were outside on a wooden deck and not in the house.

In retrospect, i should have asked, The sad thing is, its really not even about the birds. This guy is looking for reasons not to give us our deposit back. I just feel a bucket of bleach and a scrub brush would be much more cost effective and logical. But then again, it would cost alot less and he'd have to return our money.

-John

[Sharon]

I'd be very surprised if the lease said "no birds on the deck". Double check your lease. Ask any real estate agent if restrictions can be put on a property's bill of sale. I would doubt it. Someone could put "the wallpaper is not to be changed. Grandma put it up. "

[mcbosco]

You can go to court and argue that no damage was done, you were willing to clean the deck if asked and that while it was technically a default, he was unable to prove damages or the costs he incurred in cleaning. Perhaps the Judge will make him refund the difference.

He is probably correct in a legal sense but if his remedy exceeded the damage, you could get some money back.

Argue for the high probability recovery, which is the cost of cleaning vs. the security deposit.

[fuzznut]

how long ago did you move out? The landlord has 30 days to give deposit back or a letter telling you why not. 31 days... one day too late.
Personally, I would fight him on this. Go back and take photos of the deck if you haven't already.
Fuzz

[Brittlver]

The only thing that I can think of that would be in a lease would be a phrase something like this. No pets allowed with out the prior approval from the landlord. He would then have to make an arguement that the quail were considered pets and would be tough to prove when you tell the judge that they are meant for training and that you were going to shoot them and eat them.

[mcbosco]

The only thing that I can think of that would be in a lease would be a phrase something like this. No pets allowed with out the prior approval from the landlord. He would then have to make an arguement that the quail were considered pets and would be tough to prove when you tell the judge that they are meant for training and that you were going to shoot them and eat them.

I bet he will rely on a zoning clause. Game birds are not pets.

[Brittlver]

I think this landlord is looking for a way to put money in his pocket for the holidays. I hate landlords that are like this.

[mcbosco]

You had the right to do the cleaning yourself if the landlord had an issue. I would argue to the judge you were never informed or asked to do the cleaning. Tell the landlord you are going to take him to court and require him to bring the receipts for the cleaning he ordered.

He may want to settle with you.

[proudag08]

You had the right to do the cleaning yourself if the landlord had an issue. I would argue to the judge you were never informed or asked to do the cleaning. Tell the landlord you are going to take him to court and require him to bring the receipts for the cleaning he ordered.

He may want to settle with you.

Sounds like good advice here as long as its an individual landlord not a property management company. Deeper pockets will prevail here...

[markj]

My bud was renting, he moved out and bought a house, left the place way better than he started. Landlord kept his deposit, was taken to court and still has yet to pay one cent. He is also a lawyer..... they keep tossing money to another lawyer but have yet to collect the initial deposit.

Get your ducks in line and buy a place of your own. Then you will be king of the castle (unless you are married)

[isonychia]

Take them to small claims if you did not specifically violate any terms of the lease. I am assuming you still have a copy of that lease? Tenets always have the upper hand in court. In fact, my landlord just got screwed because of that, she is an amazing landlord and got taken advantage of by some con artists. I would threaten to take them to small claims and go from there. How much was the deposit anyways?

[kninebirddog]

OML
So did he sterilize the porch from all other flying birds that landed there before you rented the place :roll:

[KellyM87]

Good luck, john. Problem is going to court will probably cost more then your deposit is worth, and your land lord knows that. Then If you losd your out court costs as well. Tell him you want to pick who does the deck ( since its your money paying for it. And find a nice cheap place. Then tell him you want the difference back. Dunno if that wil work, but it could be an option.

[nj gsp]

Small claims is the way to go. Before we were married, my wife's landlord decided to unfairly keep the security deposit. We filed a claim in small claims court. My wife's landlord failed to show, but send a "friend" in her place that had been given no power of attorney or authorization to pay if the court found in our favor. The judge ruled the defendant as a no-show, meaning we won. After presenting the facts of the case to the judge, we were awarded the double penalty under NJ law, and the landlord was also ordered to pay the court cost fees of $65. The total amount of the judgement was $1965 - just under the $2000 limit for small claims. If the loser in a small claims case fails to pay within 30 days, you can put a lien on their home or property. If they fail to pay in 2 years after filing the lien, you can foreclose and take possession of the property.

The laws favor renters over landlords. I have been a landlord for the last 16 years, and always returned security deposits within the 30 days. I walk through the apartment with the renter before they leave, and have them sign off on an agreed list of damages and estimate of repair costs. If there were any deductions, I provide an itemized list of damages we agreed on and the actual cost to correct when returning the balance of the security deposit. I do not make money on repairs, and any withholding has never been disputed by any outgoing tenant.

If the landlord saw the birds but did not make it clear at the time they were not allowed, it does not mean that you are not liable for damages but the burden of proof is on the landlord.

For future reference, photograph EVERYTHING before you take possession of a rental property, document any deficiencies & note condition (such as traffic wear in carpets and other flooring, water damage, holes in floors and walls, etc.), and have the landlord sign a statement regarding the problems so you cannot be held liable for them later. Then photograph EVERYTHING again when you leave.

[mcclinj]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I'm not disputing the fact I violated the lease by keeping the chukars / quail on the deck, I just believe that the landlord is going to an extreme measure to "sanitize" the deck.

He itemized the cost of the deck repairs as approximately $100 dollars to rent the power washer from home depot, $ 80 for deck wash, and another $80 for deck for a waterproof sealer. I highly doubt the landlord is going to make this or any other repairs.

I actually gets better, I initially only posted about the bird issue with this being a bird dog forum. We also had a welcome mat inside the front door which happened to be located at the bottom of the steps. When the dog runs down the steps in the morning she would usually land on the mat and move it out of place. We solved this problem by using doubled sided tape and adhering it to the tiled entryway to the house. Now he is also claiming upwards of 80-100 dollars to have the residue removed and tile cleaned and sealed. I'm not sure what a bottle of goo-gone costs offhand but Im fairly sure it isnt 80-100 dollars.

-John

[fuzznut]

Wait a minute... you have a dog? And that's ok with the landlord?
This guy is scamming you... don't fall for it! He's just hoping you will walk away because it's easier for you then to hassle with him.
Fuzz

[adogslife]

My suggestion would be not to pay the last months rent and have him take you to landlord/tenant court to collect. Judges hate greedy landlords. All you need to tell the judge is that you are willing to pay a fair price for repairs,require the landlord to present the itemized bill for approval to the court and the judge will side with you. Judges love tenants who are willing to pay a fair price.

[Dirtysailor]

Ten to one he spent the deposit and doesn't have it to give back to you and now has to justify not having it. Just my guess as I was never a renter.

[nj gsp]

Another thing many renters don't know is this: A security deposit does not belong to the landlord and it must be held in trust for the tenant. The security deposit should be held in escrow in an interest bearing account. Interest should either be paid to the tenant quarterly, or may be allowed to remain in the account at the tenant's discretion. Now I normally don't open a special escrow account, but I calculate the interest based on my bank's historical rates and compound the interest quarterly.

Depending on how long you lived there, you should not only have your security deposit but earned interest coming to you as well.

[proudag08]

Another thing many renters don't know is this: A security deposit does not belong to the landlord and it must be held in trust for the tenant. The security deposit should be held in escrow in an interest bearing account. Interest should either be paid to the tenant quarterly, or may be allowed to remain in the account at the tenant's discretion. Now I normally don't open a special escrow account, but I calculate the interest based on my bank's historical rates and compound the interest quarterly.

Depending on how long you lived there, you should not only have your security deposit but earned interest coming to you as well.

Wow... I would have loved to have you as a landlord!!!

[tenbearsviz]

Does your lease have "default" details? Meaning, if you do something against your lease, they must "default" you and then you get to remedy the issue? Kind of like making a late payment, they complain and give you notice to pay up or else, then you remedy by paying (plus late fees).

I am not an attorney but it is basic legal wrangling. You break a rule, they tell you about it, you fix it if not they get to poke your eyes out.

[JKP]

Depends on the cost entailed....you will probably win since the landlord did not negotiate the remedy but decided on his own. Take pictures of the entire deck...carefully detailing the general wear and the supposed increased "wear" caused by your birds. Your landlord can't use a contract dispute to pay for his normal upkeep. In your place, I would take photo and film of the deck and refuse to pay. Let him do the deck and then show in court (if it goes that far) that the deck needed normal maintenance, and that the "affected" area was a small % of the needed work. I would say to your landlord that you are prepared to pay for the square footage affected by the birds, but that the general poor condition of the deck is a result of normal wear. Offer an amount to help defray his cost...but make sure that he understands that when a court sees the pictures of the general condition of the deck, he's not going to get the full amount.

IF you get to (most likely) small claims court, tell the judge that you offered to pay for the area of higher wear but the landlord refused....you didn't see it your responsibility to pay for an entire resealing when only 5% of the area was affected on a deck that needed maintenance anyway. If the landlord had just resurfaced the deck, you'd be in a lot of trouble...but that's not the case.

I'm not a lawyer....but I have owned rental properties...judges don't like landlord's that try to bully renters.

[deke]

I work with a lot of slumlords who will take your deposit without any reason, all they write down is "cleaning". when i moved out of my apartment and into my house i spent four days cleaning the apartment; they still tried to take my whole deposit, but i had pictures of before i moved in and after which I had to show a judge in small claims court and i ended up getting my money back.