Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

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ACooper
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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by ACooper » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:09 pm

Oh yeah and denial!!

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by brad27 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:25 pm

So, how many generations back in a ped does the EP crossbreeding matter? 2,5,10? If I said I had a rusty dog most people would laugh because of how far back he is. However, if I said I have a dog with EP X number of generations back people are up in arms. Why the difference?

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by Petra » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:48 pm

Probably the best condensed history of the GSP that I have read is by Gary Hutchison , on his West Wind Kennel Web Page.

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by GrayDawg » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:23 pm

gpblitz wrote:
Crestonegsp wrote:gpblitz you seem to have an issue with the GSP as it is America today.
I have no problem with The American GSP. What I have problem with is that some folks cross bred to EP for field trial purpose and falsely reg. that's my beef!!!! Don't you think we could have developed the GSP into what it is today as some have without the dishonesty of some, I do... Covered in another Topic the small e pops up in some lines. That's EP.
Crestonegsp wrote:Ted is correct we need dogs for the game and style of hunting we have here and if you want to hunt in Germany have at it.


Ted is correct. We need dogs for the game and style of hunting we have here.
Please provide names of people, kennels & dogs who you feel support the statement highlighted in red above. Then- be prepared to provide proof which substantiates this claim.

Thank you very much,

Rob
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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by nikegundog » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:28 pm

GrayDawg wrote: Please provide names of people, kennels & dogs who you feel support the statement highlighted in red above. Then- be prepared to provide proof which substantiates this claim.

Thank you very much,

Rob
Do you believe the practice is not happening?

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by jasonw99 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:17 pm

gpblitz wrote:Why is it that so many are down on the Black DK brought in? Yet it's Ok that some took the Pure blood GSP cross bred to EP and developed a hybred mutt labeling them GSP!!!
because I have never seen a good black short hair. bootlicking and hardheaded

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by raven34 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:38 pm

LOL!!!!! Maybe you should get out more then....I know a few that run 8)

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by Ken Lynch » Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:26 pm

This thread and most forums remind me of what the TV News has become. Very little specific fact mixed with a lot of innuendos and topped off with a heaping of personal biased opinion. The blending of which makes it very difficult to separate one form from the other.
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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by GrayDawg » Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:37 pm

gpblitz wrote:
GrayDawg wrote:Please provide names of people, kennels & dogs who you feel support the statement highlighted in red above. Then- be prepared to provide proof which substantiates this claim.
You might start with any dog that carries or throws small e... that would be a good place to start your own research. Then form your own opinion.
Howie, with all due respect- you made a statement on this bulletin board and I'm simply asking you to support your statement with facts which you believe to be true. I didn't make such claims, you did. It's only fair & logical that you could expect someone to call your bluff. If you have pocket Aces, I want to see them. Until then, I'll just assume your down cards are a 3 & 5 off suit.

I respect the accomplishments of your dogs- but unless you personally saw a Pointer with his junk in some GSP's vulva.......... well, it's just a case of "he said, she said".

Enjoy the rest of your season.

And to the knucklehead Jason............ I personally know of two black GSPs that are very BIG running girls- AFC/FC's....... both of them. And they beat every color GSP there is attaining those titles!

Rob
Last edited by GrayDawg on Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by AzDoggin » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:47 pm

Ken Lynch wrote:This thread and most forums remind me of what the TV News has become. Very little specific fact mixed with a lot of innuendos and topped off with a heaping of personal biased opinion. The blending of which makes it very difficult to separate one form from the other.
No doubt. Dang near ESPN-worthy. :lol:

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by brad27 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:59 pm

I gave you a good starting point. GSP doesn't carry Small e ellie for lemon EP does.. GSP carries big E ellie . Study the genetics of the GSP.
No, you did not give a good starting point. You gave a general statement on genetics. BTW, I am still waiting for an answer to the question I asked you.

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by brad27 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:36 pm

I'll read the book, but I am still waiting.

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by adogslife » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:40 am

Deutscher Kurzhaariger Vorstehhund?

This refers to the category of the breed, pointing breed.

I would be surprised if there are any DK owners that are voting for black acceptance. What would show ring acceptance do for the black DK? We have our own testing system and conformation rating. DK owners wanting to appeal to those wanting to own AKC will do dual registration. I see this less and less. Our testing is one based on performance with breeding goals. Allowing a GSP to test would do nothing for the DK.

There is a thing called pure bred. Knowing what this means will clear up much of this useless thread.

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by adogslife » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:47 am

because I have never seen a good black short hair. bootlicking and hardheaded
How many have you seen?
I will need your definition of the above.

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by brad27 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:33 am

gpblitz wrote:
brad27 wrote:I'll read the book, but I am still waiting.
You must be Democrat, Want someone else to do the work and you collect the benifits!!!! :lol: :lol: JUST KIDDING!! :lol: :lol:

NO, I'll keep what I know to myself. I through it out there. Let see if you care enough about the breed to reseach in depth!!!
So, that book is pretty hard to find unless i want to pay $367. You should mail me your copy and I'll mail it back to you when I'm done. Seriously.
That is of course assuming you actually want me to learn about the breed.

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by GrayDawg » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:26 am

brad27 wrote:
gpblitz wrote:
brad27 wrote:I'll read the book, but I am still waiting.
You must be Democrat, Want someone else to do the work and you collect the benifits!!!! :lol: :lol: JUST KIDDING!! :lol: :lol:

NO, I'll keep what I know to myself. I through it out there. Let see if you care enough about the breed to reseach in depth!!!
So, that book is pretty hard to find unless i want to pay $367. You should mail me your copy and I'll mail it back to you when I'm done. Seriously.
That is of course assuming you actually want me to learn about the breed.
Brad,
Here you go........
http://facks.org/?bk=gspbook
You can get it here for $88....... $103 including S/H.

Howie,
I have this book. On what page does Georgia site the names of Breeders or their Kennel names who infused GSP blood with Pointer blood? I asked this originally because I wanted to know who to stay away from- not that I denied it ever occurred. I think you may have taken my query in the wrong context? But again, with no names- we have no audit string on which to begin our "pull".

Rob
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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:34 pm

GrayDawg wrote: Brad,
Here you go........
http://facks.org/?bk=gspbook
You can get it here for $88....... $103 including S/H.

Howie,
I have this book. On what page does Georgia site the names of Breeders or their Kennel names who infused GSP blood with Pointer blood? I asked this originally because I wanted to know who to stay away from- not that I denied it ever occurred. I think you may have taken my query in the wrong context? But again, with no names- we have no audit string on which to begin our "pull".

Rob
As you well knbow there is no way howie or you cn list people who cheated on a public forum without exposing you and the forum to a law suit. if you really feel you need names then do it privately and stop cluttering this topic up.

Ezzy
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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by brad27 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:43 pm

Thanks for the link GrayDawg. I read that page but I guess I missed the "buy now" button. :oops:

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by Ken Lynch » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:27 pm

As you well knbow there is no way howie or you cn list people who cheated on a public forum without exposing you and the forum to a law suit. if you really feel you need names then do it privately and stop cluttering this topic up.
Ah the heavy hand of threat and fear once again is used to quash inquiring minds. However, if there is proof beyond "I heard someone say..." or "I read it on the back of a napkin..." then it should be brought out into the sunshine for everyone to see.
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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by ACooper » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:09 pm

Ken I do respect your and Rob's opinions but what more proof is needed than the look of many FT dogs and the numerous lemon and white "gsps"?

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:23 pm

Does anyone have a photo of one of these "numerous" lemon and white shorthairs?
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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by ACooper » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:43 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Does anyone have a photo of one of these "numerous" lemon and white shorthairs?
You posted in a thread that had photos of a couple of "off" colored dogs...

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:51 pm

ACooper wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:Does anyone have a photo of one of these "numerous" lemon and white shorthairs?
You posted in a thread that had photos of a couple of "off" colored dogs...
They were not lemon and white. Lemon is orange with a pale nose.
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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by ACooper » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:01 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
ACooper wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:Does anyone have a photo of one of these "numerous" lemon and white shorthairs?
You posted in a thread that had photos of a couple of "off" colored dogs...
They were not lemon and white. Lemon is orange with a pale nose.
Well they didn't have black noses so... call them what you wan't.

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by adogslife » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:08 pm

The pictures posted in this thread are of dogs with e/e.
There are extension genes and non extension genes.
E is dominant and the normal extension. e is recessive and is non extension.
Dogs who would be black and are e/e will have a black nose,eye lids,lips. Dogs who would be brown and are e/e will have brown nose,eyelids,lips.
I don't know if shorthairs ever carried e/e.

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:34 pm

Ken Lynch wrote:
As you well knbow there is no way howie or you cn list people who cheated on a public forum without exposing you and the forum to a law suit. if you really feel you need names then do it privately and stop cluttering this topic up.
Ah the heavy hand of threat and fear once again is used to quash inquiring minds. However, if there is proof beyond "I heard someone say..." or "I read it on the back of a napkin..." then it should be brought out into the sunshine for everyone to see.
There is no threat and nothing to fear. There was some straight up information that most people already know but we always have a few that don't get the word and fewer yet that want to argue about it. Either accept it or plan on not being here long. And that is not a threat either. It is just a plain simple fact that we all live with.

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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:36 pm

Pointers are never roan.
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Re: Black GSP/DK vs the Hybred American GSP

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:05 pm

Ladies & Gentlemen,
I stayed out of this thread for the most part, however I owned a great German Shorthair that was imported from Germany fully trained, she was an incredible animal and could run a full grown deer to the ground any time she wanted too, she was one of those big German dogs the USA boys have little use for. However I loved her and she was one of the best gun dogs I have ever seen, snow rousting Grouse were here specialty, she also helped train hundreds of pups and instinctively found and retrieved winged birds like few other animals.
My brother owns the GSP/EP mix, 12 years old now, and she is one of the best Grouse dogs God ever created. Having hunted with both these great dogs, and sometimes even with them at the same time, it makes not difference to me, althought the way the job gets done is slightly different, the results are the same, except that the GSP/EP mix does not instinctively retrieve to hand, like the old German Shorthair. I have never owned a Black German Shorthair, they are beautiful animals however. I did own a Black (Blue) Weimar, imported from Germany, another truly beautiful talented V gun dog, and a very serious Grouse dog. Both animals preformed at very high levels for many many years, Rosie for 16 of her 18 years and Coca for 12, have given us heart stopping enjoyment in the Grouse woods and Pheasant fields.
RGD/Dave


Rosie our German Shorthair, on Grouse Point in her shadow box, surrounded by her Grouse tails and her different mounts, everyone retrieved to my hand.
Image

CoCo, my brothers incredible GSP/EP mix, an American Grouse dog with few equals.
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Merry Christmas everybody
Last edited by Ryman Gun Dog on Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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