English Setter style

Croix
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English Setter style

Post by Croix » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:15 pm

What's your best definition/description for "style in setters".

I always hear about this dog or that dog has style. Or is stylish. I have a one year old Setter that seems stylish to Me, but I'm an easily impressed newbie.

Thanks in advance for your imput.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by DonF » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:55 pm

Style on point.
Image

Style when he runs I don't know how to photograph. But that dog when let go crusies a field whit a vengence, fast! He keeps running fast as long as he can. If he crosses a bird he goes from mock one to zero in the bat of ane eye. When you are running a dog with style, you always watch the dog for fear of missing something. When that kind of dog does something, they do it fast.

Image

Hard to discribe style with words but when you are watching a dog and you are riveted to the dog, it's the style that grabs you. You ever notice that some women immediately attract attention when entering a room? Some thing, there's something there you'll have a hard time defining!
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SCT
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Re: English Setter style

Post by SCT » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:17 pm

That looks stylish to me!!!

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Re: English Setter style

Post by mcbosco » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:44 pm

Croix wrote:What's your best definition/description for "style in setters".

I always hear about this dog or that dog has style. Or is stylish. I have a one year old Setter that seems stylish to Me, but I'm an easily impressed newbie.

Thanks in advance for your imput.
I am a traditional setter guy. Tail flat no higher than the top-line.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by jimbo&rooster » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:48 pm

mcbosco wrote:
Croix wrote:What's your best definition/description for "style in setters".

I always hear about this dog or that dog has style. Or is stylish. I have a one year old Setter that seems stylish to Me, but I'm an easily impressed newbie.

Thanks in advance for your imput.
I am a traditional setter guy. Tail flat no higher than the top-line.
My dad hunted Irish Setters when you could still get one. I like to see a pointer with a 12 o'clock tail, and even want my GSPs to have a 10-12 o'clock tail, but i like to see a setter with its taill straight out and alot of feathering....

JIm
A limit on the strap is nice, but the kill has nothing to do with tradition.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by mcbosco » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:00 pm

zakpointing.jpeg
Like this
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Re: English Setter style

Post by jimbo&rooster » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:05 pm

just like that, except im still alittle biased to red dogs :D.

Jim
A limit on the strap is nice, but the kill has nothing to do with tradition.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by mcbosco » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:13 pm

Tails are interesting. Mine will normally carry his tail below the top line which is technically the standard.
61191_148801115158370_100000854471504_221545_6050239_n.jpeg
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Re: English Setter style

Post by Wenaha » Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:08 pm

Don - that's a good looking dog. Reminds me of one of mine...

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Re: English Setter style

Post by Grange » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:00 pm

I like a high head and straight up and down tail. This is a picture taken when running my dogs on grouse. My setter is pointing a grouse.

Image

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Re: English Setter style

Post by nj gsp » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:11 pm

I can't comment on what most people would call style, but what I like in a long tailed dog is one that run with its tail straight out behind, works with a brisk but steady pace it can keep up all day, and is a dog that does not rely on air scent alone and can work ground scent to work and point running birds. The setter I have is just like that, and that's fine with me.

Style running? That to me is the same for all the dogs I have - sighthounds and gun dogs alike - style means a dog that is light on its feet and moves like music. Our Setter and Lurchers move like that; I'd say our shorthair doesn't, but she makes up for that with a beautiful point.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by PntrRookie » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:28 am

Some images I have on file...

Image

Image

Image

Image

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Re: English Setter style

Post by JeremyS » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:01 am

.
Last edited by JeremyS on Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by Wildweeds » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:39 am

I was reminded this weekend why the first and last dog pictured won so many ribbions,as Don suggested it's very hard to capture running "style" on still film.I'm gonna miss him when he is gone,hopefully his pups pictured can come close to filling his shoes.He did me a bang up job on saturday quail hunting.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

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Re: English Setter style

Post by KellyM87 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:58 am

what would you like in a dog more running? a dog who runs as fast as can be but with a tail that is dragging or a dog who is slower but hunts with his tail high and cracking the whole time?

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Re: English Setter style

Post by Wildweeds » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:58 am

Kelly, you can get one that does both..................once you get one that does...................you'll sort through a bunch to get another.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by PntrRookie » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:04 pm

KellyM87 wrote:what would you like in a dog more running? a dog who runs as fast as can be but with a tail that is dragging or a dog who is slower but hunts with his tail high and cracking the whole time?
Many dogs outrun their tail. Once they get in their groove if the tails catches up and starts to crack...then you got something. Hate to say it but I do not like a flat water pump tail.
Wildweeds wrote:Kelly, you can get one that does both...once you get one that does...you'll sort through a bunch to get another.
+1

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Re: English Setter style

Post by KellyM87 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:28 pm

I didn't want to hijack this thread, I was just curious. My dog is fast, REALLY fast, but he outruns his tail as he moves from cover to cover. Once he is in the cover and starts hunting it is as high and cracking as any dog. He won't be a trial dog because of it. I was just curious if this was common, or a REAL bad trait.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by goldenpatch29 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:39 pm

my lil setter pup does the same thing and my last setter did it as well.....so as of right now I guess you could say Im two for two.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:48 pm

Gentlemen,
Each person has his own definition of style, meeting breed standard with great instincts and the ability to handle what ever bird you hunt, along with an instinctive retrieve to hand, is how I judge style. All else is subjective to the individual, and is judged differently by different people. Looks real nice but should mean nothing, style should never become more important than actual bird finding ability, no matter how pretty the dog happens to be, running or standing still.
Just my opinion
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Re: English Setter style

Post by BirdBuster » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:32 pm

The white setter is 11 months old and the black and white setter is 4 1/2. Mother and son. When they run the tail cracks and when they move they look like they are gliding.

Image
Image

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Re: English Setter style

Post by Grange » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:45 pm

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:Gentlemen,
Each person has his own definition of style, meeting breed standard with great instincts and the ability to handle what ever bird you hunt, along with an instinctive retrieve to hand, is how I judge style. All else is subjective to the individual, and is judged differently by different people. Looks real nice but should mean nothing, style should never become more important than actual bird finding ability, no matter how pretty the dog happens to be, running or standing still.
Just my opinion
RGD/Dave

I would agree your last statement and I don't know anyone that would disagree. That is one reason why I enjoy a good dog with style, which to me includes a fast moving, high crack'n tail when running, and high on both ends on point. To have a dog that has bird finding ability AND has style (whatever definition you want to use) is what a lot of people work towards.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by Wildweeds » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:05 pm

Image

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Re: English Setter style

Post by PntrRookie » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:08 pm

Grange wrote:To have a dog that has bird finding ability AND has style (whatever definition you want to use) is what a lot of people work towards.
Agreed and that should be the goal for ALL breeders, never settle for a hole - make it BETTER!

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Re: English Setter style

Post by Wildweeds » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:15 pm

Exactly what I did and it only took me 6 years and as many females to get the job done,got really really nitpicky.
PntrRookie wrote:
Grange wrote:To have a dog that has bird finding ability AND has style (whatever definition you want to use) is what a lot of people work towards.
Agreed and that should be the goal for ALL breeders, never settle for a hole - make it BETTER!

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Re: English Setter style

Post by rschmeider » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:48 pm

This is what a Setter gets to style up on when you go grouse hunting with a GSP :P :P :P Nice pics
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Re: English Setter style

Post by PkerStr8Tail » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:40 pm

mcbosco wrote:
zakpointing.jpeg
Like this
I would prefer this over a high tail and low in the front end. I prefer high on both ends but high on the front is a must have to start.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by gspguy » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:53 pm

I need a 11-12 o'clock tail that's straight or with a little bend. A setter tail can have a little bend in it (no sickle tail though) and still look really good. I think it's the feathering. The head can be wherever the scent is but it is neat to see a high head & tail. To me the cracking tail is overrated. And no head crank please. Keep your head still whilst I kick the cover. I think the whole head crank thing is the stupidest thing ever. I get that cracking tails and head crank are something that may be used to separate dogs in contention during a trial but to me they are both way overrated. A smooth, fast, athletic runner that can turn on a dime works for me too.
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Re: English Setter style

Post by BirdBuster » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:14 pm

Very nice!

Wildweeds wrote:Image

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Re: English Setter style

Post by BirdBuster » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:16 pm

Don, I think you are just bragging at this point. Bodie I believe it is, is indeed a nice looking bird hound.
Ray

DonF wrote:Style on point.
Image

Style when he runs I don't know how to photograph. But that dog when let go crusies a field whit a vengence, fast! He keeps running fast as long as he can. If he crosses a bird he goes from mock one to zero in the bat of ane eye. When you are running a dog with style, you always watch the dog for fear of missing something. When that kind of dog does something, they do it fast.

Image

Hard to discribe style with words but when you are watching a dog and you are riveted to the dog, it's the style that grabs you. You ever notice that some women immediately attract attention when entering a room? Some thing, there's something there you'll have a hard time defining!

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Re: English Setter style

Post by SetterNut » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:27 pm

There are a bunch of stylish Setters here. Love looking at the pics.
Its mostly personal preference, but in prairie grass it is really nice to have a pretty high tail. Makes it much easier to spot the dog with that flag sticking up out of the grass,

Image

This is my new pup. He is going to be pretty stylish when he gets older. The tail will be higher, and will have the feathers that look so great sticking up out of the prairie grass
Image

Here he is backing at about 3.5 months
Image
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Re: English Setter style

Post by nj gsp » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:40 am

Love the look of your pup SetterNut!

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Re: English Setter style

Post by DonF » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:57 am

BirdBuster wrote:Don, I think you are just bragging at this point. Bodie I believe it is, is indeed a nice looking bird hound.
Ray

DonF wrote:Style on point.
Image

Style when he runs I don't know how to photograph. But that dog when let go crusies a field whit a vengence, fast! He keeps running fast as long as he can. If he crosses a bird he goes from mock one to zero in the bat of ane eye. When you are running a dog with style, you always watch the dog for fear of missing something. When that kind of dog does something, they do it fast.

[img]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o277 ... die003.jpg[/img

Hard to discribe style with words but when you are watching a dog and you are riveted to the dog, it's the style that grabs you. You ever notice that some women immediately attract attention when entering a room? Some thing, there's something there you'll have a hard time defining!
You are absolutely right! :) I wouldn't give a hoot in he*l for a guy that didn't brag on his dog no matter what anyone else thinks of it! :wink:
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Re: English Setter style

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:22 pm

Gentlemen,
Actually there is some purpose to some dogs style, note the differences in the tail when pointing different birds.

Daisy on Grouse point
Image

Daisy pointing a Woodcock
Image

Daisy pointing a Pheasant
Image

Daisy pointing both a Woodcock and Grouse, took me a while to understand this one, true mixed doubles are just incredible gunning.
Image

Well what is the old girl pointing in these last 2 pictures
Image

Image
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Re: English Setter style

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:42 pm

So wait...

Up on grouse...
45 degrees (roughly) on woodcock...
and flat on combos...

it is always like this Dave?

...I would never call bs on you, but if I was a betting man and you hadn't lableled the photos I would have bet you a hunnert dollars and a good ceegar from the barber shop that Daisy was just on top of a bird in pic two and she was fixin to go with it?

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Re: English Setter style

Post by Ruffshooter » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:50 pm

To ante up: I had an ole dog, Meat dog, Dexter, a really big Brit. He would point with tail out and still at 4:00. That would be a Ruffy . When his tail was at 4:00 and flagging it was a woodcock. When his tail was up at 2 to 3, he figured he could catch what ever it was, might be a rabbit, squirre,l deer or moose.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:58 pm

...there is something to it...the dog in Dave's pictures has someting different going on in different scenarios

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Re: English Setter style

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 pm

Chukar12,
For the most part it holds true and I can tell what is going to come up on the flush, every once in a while I get a surprise. In the 2nd Picture Daisy is close to the Woodcock, however she does not flush birds on her own. Our Small Munsterlander is a master at showing me which birds, rabbits and Turkey he is pointing, and flushes on command. Watching both these dogs in the Grouse woods working as a mixed brace, makes a mans heart run fast.
RGD/Dave

Sampson on Grouse point
Image

Sampson on combo Grouse and Timberdoodle
Image

Sampson pointing a lone Woodcock

Image

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Re: English Setter style

Post by goldenpatch29 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:48 pm

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:Chukar12,
For the most part it holds true and I can tell what is going to come up on the flush, every once in a while I get a surprise. In the 2nd Picture Daisy is close to the Woodcock, however she does not flush birds on her own. Our Small Munsterlander is a master at showing me which birds, rabbits and Turkey he is pointing, and flushes on command. Watching both these dogs in the Grouse woods working as a mixed brace, makes a mans heart run fast.
RGD/Dave

Sampson on Grouse point
Image

Sampson on combo Grouse and Timberdoodle
Image

Sampson pointing a lone Woodcock

Image

Good Lord...you must be one heck of shot...I cant even see through that cover... :D :D

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Re: English Setter style

Post by KellyM87 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:53 pm

Image

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Re: English Setter style

Post by ACooper » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:56 pm

Wildweeds wrote:Image
Wildweeds wrote:
Image
Image
Pups like these almost make me want a setter, great looking pups Weeds! I really like the white pup.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by KellyM87 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:12 pm

Image

Bo on one of his very first liberated bird finds (Field Trial grounds after a hunt test) Think he will probably be pretty stylish too. Runs VERY stylish.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by SetterNut » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:42 pm

KellyM87 wrote:Image

Bo on one of his very first liberated bird finds (Field Trial grounds after a hunt test) Think he will probably be pretty stylish too. Runs VERY stylish.

Kelly, how old is Bo in that picture? He looks a lot like my Llewellin pup Indy, a few posts above.
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Re: English Setter style

Post by Grange » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:17 pm

My setter pointing different birds.

Grouse (also see picture above)
Image

Woodcock.
Image

Pheasant.
Image

Pen raised quail.
Image

If I had pick a difference between the different birds I'd have to say my setter's tail is straighter on wild birds than pen raised birds, but when I use pen raised birds when I'm training so that may play a role. If my dog's tail is curved on wild birds that is a sure sign she doesn't have the bird pinned or it's old scent. On wild birds I don't notice much of a difference between species.

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Re: English Setter style

Post by big steve46 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:41 pm

I kinda feel sorry for the owners of "stub-tails" and "off-brands." Bet they are kinda envious about now. :lol:
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Re: English Setter style

Post by RayGubernat » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:11 pm

To me, high style on a pointer or setter is a head at 10:30 and the tail at 1:30 or higher to 12 o'clock, but it must be straight and no more curve than a gentle bow. It is not the highest style, but very acceptable style to have the head and neck stretched out straight from the shoulders. Some pointers point with their noses upturned to some degree. A very small amount of upturn is very stylish, but a nose pointed skyward at 12 o'clock is not particularly pleasing to my eye.

I have always had the appearance of the dog on point referred to as style, while the appearance of the dog in motion has always been referred to as "class" or "class on the ground". However the way a dog moves is often referred to as its running style, which muddies up the waters somewhat.

Class on the ground usually involves a smooth, effortless gait...the kind of gait that will allow the dog to carry a glass of water on its back without spilling a drop. It also involves a merry tail when the dog is hunting...as opposed to running flat out full tilt at the breakaway. A slighly less desirable, but very acceptable tail action is tail which "floats"just above the horizontal...moving with the dog. A dog that runs and hunts with its tail below the horizontal is not considered to be a classy running dog.

RayG

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Re: English Setter style

Post by Wildweeds » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:21 am

Yesterdays pics from the gun intro/bird intro outing, two pups,two different shots.This litter came out so white I've been calling them my "Millerettas" lot's of inherited point and bird crazy with very nice gaits.
Image
Image

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Re: English Setter style

Post by SHORTFAT » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:43 am

Sheeesh!.. I'm in way over my head here folks... I thought my dog's style was the cavalier way she lays on the couch spread eagle watching the outdoor network! :lol: I'm just happy when she holds a staunch point! Love the pictures! Never too many... :D Really cool thread.
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Re: English Setter style

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:46 am

I kinda feel sorry for the owners of "stub-tails"
Size doesn't matter Steve

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Re: English Setter style

Post by Croix » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:23 am

Great pics and info. Keep them coming, love hearing other viewpoints on style.

Thanks again.

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