Just sharing a story about a pointer...

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Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by GUNDOGS » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:48 pm

just wanted to share a story i read...ruth

http://www.thedogfiles.com/2011/12/06/a ... -load-dog/
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:55 pm

If it was my dog that happened to, I'd own me an airport. The dog was coming in from hunting and reportedly accustomed to flying and may have even been aced. She not only refused to do her job, the woman misappropriated someone else's property. She needs to keep her furbaby rescue mindset out of others' business.
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by markj » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:10 pm

I am with casey on that one. Why do people belive it is OK to meddel in anothers business without any usable knowledge of the business. She woulda got fired if she worked for me. Oh she did :)
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Winchey » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:15 pm

I wasn't there so I don't know if the dog would have actually died or not if it got on the plane but I wouldn't want my dog going on a plane if it was going to kill him.

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Redfishkilla » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:22 pm

That lady is not a vet, she didn't know whether or not the dog would have died. If that guy booked a high $ hunt only for some old lady to stop his dog I'd be pretty upset.

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by DogNewbie » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:32 pm

Almost every single person that meets my pup thinks he's too skinny (he not). Add to that cuts and sores from a week of hunting and you have one exhausted, beat up dog. I wouldn't be surprised if that dog was completely healthy and she's just used to dogs that are obese couch potatoes. I wish the article would have gotten the hunters perspective as well rather than painting him/her as this evil dog abuser. Bad journalism IMO

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by nikegundog » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:34 pm

I don't think there is enough is that story to make a judgment either way.

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by DogNewbie » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:45 pm

nikegundog wrote:I don't think there is enough is that story to make a judgment either way.
I agree, but the journalist sure chose which side of the story he wanted people to sympathize with. Considering how many people in this country that don't understand what a healthy dog looks like, and considering that this was a hunting dog, being shipped back from a hunting trip, I just wouldn't be surprised if this dog was fine. The article quotes the lady saying, “It just breaks my heart to think that dog has been sent back to that owner. It’s disgusting. It makes me ill. I can’t fathom why they would send it back to someone who obviously was abusing the dog.” but doesn't appear to even attempt to contact the owner so he/she could defend himself/herself. This is literally a she said situation and a terrible journalism. That's all I'm saying.

Tim

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:04 pm

The owner wasn't notified. The dog was turned over to animal welfare and held for an extended period of time on the judgment of a baggage handler who used to be a dog groomer. There's an expert opinion for you.

I hope the owner sues the aitchee-double-hockeysticks out of everyone involved.
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by cjuve » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:09 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:If it was my dog that happened to, I'd own me an airport. The dog was coming in from hunting and reportedly accustomed to flying and may have even been aced. She not only refused to do her job, the woman misappropriated someone else's property. She needs to keep her furbaby rescue mindset out of others' business.
+1

There are a lot of people that have no Idea what a properly conditioned hunting dog looks like to begin with, add to that a couple of hard days hunting in the Nevada desert and a dog can look pretty poor. It would be nice to see pictures of the actual condition that dog was in. I am pretty sure that if the dog was being neglected the owner would have had a harder time getting the dog back.

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by GUNDOGS » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:07 pm

i agree its best to know all the facts and both sides as well as a photo to make a judgement but one thing the article states that caught my attention is the hunter who owns the dog ships the dog to different places to hunt, i cant see someone starving/ abusing a dog while spending hundreds of dollars to get him place to place in order to hunt him but what do i know :roll:..this baggage lady obviously hasnt seen dogs after being at a trainers after some hard exercise for a few weeks, when we got jersey back from the trainer after a week she looked like a greyhound, she had lost a few pounds and was total muscle, good thing i didnt ship her :? ....ruth
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Truthseeker » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:36 pm

ya, sue somebody thats the answer.

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:36 pm

I have left Reno looking ragged countless times, a number of them were legitimate hunting trips

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:43 pm

Truthseeker wrote:ya, sue somebody thats the answer.
It is when they seize without cause or damage your personal property.
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by GUNDOGS » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:13 pm

Chukar12 wrote:I have left Reno looking ragged countless times, a number of them were legitimate hunting trips
you sure live the life joe, just sayin 8) .....ruth
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by displaced_texan » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:05 pm

cjuve wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:If it was my dog that happened to, I'd own me an airport. The dog was coming in from hunting and reportedly accustomed to flying and may have even been aced. She not only refused to do her job, the woman misappropriated someone else's property. She needs to keep her furbaby rescue mindset out of others' business.
+1

There are a lot of people that have no Idea what a properly conditioned hunting dog looks like to begin with, add to that a couple of hard days hunting in the Nevada desert and a dog can look pretty poor. It would be nice to see pictures of the actual condition that dog was in. I am pretty sure that if the dog was being neglected the owner would have had a harder time getting the dog back.
Not just a properly conditioned hunting dog, most people in my experience think dogs should be overweight. Go to a dog park and look at all the fat dogs. Usually owned by fat people that wonder why my dogs can just run so much.
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by whoa on 'em » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:20 pm

Funny, I read the same article today and my first thought was "I wonder if it's just me or was this a horrible article written to make a hero out of this woman while totally ignoring the fact that there is no evidence of the dog being mistreated?"
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by cody » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:02 pm

the dog made it home and the employee was canned and you still want to sue someone? who's overreacting now?
people make mistakes and companies make mistakes why/how is a lawsuit the answer?

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Cajun Casey » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:22 pm

cody wrote:the dog made it home and the employee was canned and you still want to sue someone? who's overreacting now?
people make mistakes and companies make mistakes why/how is a lawsuit the answer?
So, you're okay with personal property being seized based on a non-professional allegation without the owner of the property being notified? Of course, there are a lot of details left out of the reports and Nevada animal cruelty cases are sealed, so what transpired is not fully disclosed. However, the fact that shipped animals are required to have a contact number on the container and the shipper may not have been notified of a question of fitness before the dog was remanded to animal welfare really bothers me.
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by hustonmc » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:09 pm

The funniest part is reading all of the comments on the bottom. I think I'm going to be sick

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by markj » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:31 am

the dog made it home and the employee was canned and you still want to sue someone?
When money is involed and the potential future loss of money, things get changed and procedures are adjusted so it doesnt happen again. Sometimes, unfortunatly it takes a financial loss before a company will look closely at its way of doing things.

Seems to me the folks nowadays feel very strongly that it is OK to tell another how they should be living their life. Some will get very rude about it too. Used to be live and let live, now it is watch everyone and get 911 on the line as soon as you even suspect something is amiss. Cops called due to a guy carrying an umbrella, "It looked like a gun" and the whole place was locked down.....

Next fool gets in my face and tells me I am doing it wrong, well that person may just find it is their worst day ever.
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by tommyboy72 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:25 am

cody wrote:the dog made it home and the employee was canned and you still want to sue someone? who's overreacting now?
people make mistakes and companies make mistakes why/how is a lawsuit the answer?
I bet you wouldn't have that mindset if it were your dog, would you? I would never abdicate suing anyone but I would "bleep" sure take chew her a$$ up one side and down the other and make a big enough deal of it that the company never gave her job back to her. And before you say that would do nothing to solve the issue. I don't care, it's not about solving an issue it would be about making myself feel vindicated.

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Winchey » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:04 pm

"I have left Reno looking ragged countless times, a number of them were legitimate hunting trips"

A friend of the owner commented on another board and pretty much said the same thing.

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Cajun Casey » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:07 pm

I guess I feel that if I were the owner of a dog in that situation, my time spent dealing with it would be worth something, so I expect the offending entities to recognize that. Things like this are more and more common. In this state, you can call in an anonymous complaint on a commercial breeder and make their life miserable.
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by GUNDOGS » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:45 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:I guess I feel that if I were the owner of a dog in that situation, my time spent dealing with it would be worth something, so I expect the offending entities to recognize that. Things like this are more and more common. In this state, you can call in an anonymous complaint on a commercial breeder and make their life miserable.
not only time spent dealing with it but the inappropriate, out of line comments made by the lady after the investigation was closed and the dog was returned to the owner about how the owner was "obviously abusing the dog" and how it made her "ill" the dog was with his owner would be cause to file a defamation of character lawsuit....ruth
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by PntrRookie » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:30 pm

Here is a first hand cross-post from a similar thread regarding this situation...I just spoke to the owner and I know the dog well. In fact Joe McMarl,had this dog in for training some years back. He is a direct son of Elhew Damascus. The dog gets hunted HARD in Texas and even harder,during their annual chukar hunt north of Reno. I missed the trip this year. The dogs all look the same after two weeks in that country. It was a very frustrating ordeal for the owner of the dog.

FWIW, this is MY opinion. If this owner is fortunate enough to have the resources to fly and hunt all over the country I would be willing to bet he has some "other" resources to get to the bottom of the situation and make sure all is "taken care of" appropriately...again, this is just MY opinion. Man I would love to do that...fly around that is.

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by proudag08 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:48 pm


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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by DogNewbie » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:31 pm

Wow, this is getting out of hand. It sounds like there's even an investigation into the owners "abuse!" Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most airlines require a current (something like within 10days) health check before they'll ship a dog? Shouldn't a professionals opinion be considered in this case?

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by GUNDOGS » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:27 pm

i thought the dog was returned to the owner?? how is it they are stating they are looking for the owner of the dog then, did i misread something??...ruth
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by ultracarry » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:26 pm

After a good chukar hunt I'm using ace bandages, boots, corona ointment, and a anti-inflammatory for my dogs feet. Any good dog needs some r&r after they beat themselves up on those rocks and get stuck my a few cactus needles. Sure I boot up my dog but some boots are garbage after 30 minutes. The owner may not have put them on but you can't force the dog to run and burn up pads. It sounds like a good owner for putting him in a crate and trying to fly him home.

Look at the pic with that cat lady and the obese dogs on the couch. That's animal abuse. When her dogs need insulin shots every day because they developed diabetes from being over weight.

People will always look at a hunting or trial dog that has a short coat and think you don't feed them. I would hire a good attorney and let him keep all that comes out of this.

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by jimbo&rooster » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:45 am

ultracarry wrote:After a good chukar hunt I'm using ace bandages, boots, corona ointment, and a anti-inflammatory for my dogs feet. Any good dog needs some r&r after they beat themselves up on those rocks and get stuck my a few cactus needles. Sure I boot up my dog but some boots are garbage after 30 minutes. The owner may not have put them on but you can't force the dog to run and burn up pads. It sounds like a good owner for putting him in a crate and trying to fly him home.

Look at the pic with that cat lady and the obese dogs on the couch. That's animal abuse. When her dogs need insulin shots every day because they developed diabetes from being over weight.

People will always look at a hunting or trial dog that has a short coat and think you don't feed them. I would hire a good attorney and let him keep all that comes out of this.
heck I just ran my dogs through our CRP for an hour last night and 2 out of 3 were bleeding, I wont make any judgement either way on this situation, until I have seen pics of the dog in question I cant say whether this lady is right or wrong. I have seen my older GSP in the summer look bad enough that I may have turned my self in when we have been training alot and running every day. I have also seen some Hunting dogs that were treated pretty poorly over the years.

How many of us have been in the vets office with a dog and every one in the waiting room looked like they wanted to fight you? My vets office Immediately puts me in a room when I get ther because some well meaning citizens have complained.....

I wont say that what this woman did was right. Obviously if they gave the owner his dog back then there is reason to believe that she is more than likely a whack job, but we really dont know.

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by RoostersMom » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:25 am

I agree with above, we really don't know the circumstances. This part in the article gives me pause "Bart, a board member of the Nevada Humane Society, called the dog’s condition “appalling.” She said she grew up in a hunting family, and the dog was far beyond the condition of a dog that was worked too hard.
“This was abuse,” she said."

I don't know about this at all. My assumption would be that the dog was beyond "normal hunting bloody." But that's just my opinion. I have a pointer who hunts hard and gets bloody but I don't think a reasonable person would call it abuse. Who knows if the people involved are reasonable. The people I work with at our local humane society (not related to the HSUS) are pretty well educated on bird dogs thanks to my working with them for the past 10 years.

I think it's a duty of everyone to report abuse where they see it. That's not saying that everyone can determine the difference between abuse and "worked hard" but I personally would rather err on the side of caution. If she truly felt the dog wouldn't make it through the flight, then I think she did the right thing to call in authorities and let them make the decision.

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by ultracarry » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:09 am

I had a vet tell me I needed to put weight on my dog when I was training her to run the house at nationals. I said thanks for the advice but I know the dog a little better than you and that's not why I came.... changed vets and the one I have now said she is in perfect condition and doesn't need to gain weight. It's amazing what happens when the vet owns the same breed.

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by markj » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:38 am

Man its like a well tuned race horse versus a pasture potato that eats and sleeps. Look at the diff there, same with a fine tuned hunting dog. The dog will push itself far beyond what a house couch potato dog does and looks like it too.

Dog racer vets know this, there are a few around here too with the track and all.

I got a dog looks like he never eats, he runs 4 acres, a lot, both of my young males look like this but they are iron hard and will hunt all day every day. Been told to feed him up by one vet the other thinks they are in tip top shape and very fit.
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by cjuve » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:33 am

I agree with above, we really don't know the circumstances. This part in the article gives me pause "Bart, a board member of the Nevada Humane Society, called the dog’s condition “appalling.” She said she grew up in a hunting family, and the dog was far beyond the condition of a dog that was worked too hard.
“This was abuse,” she said."
I doubt that Bart's family owned pointers there is a big difference between breeds, the last time I checked she is not a vet either. From what I have heard this dog was a son of Damascus which IME are not easy keepers to begin with. A full month has gone by since the incident and just now they decide to do an investigation in Texas.... Sounds fishy to me if the dog was abused he would still be in Nevada. There are to many tree hugging, fur babies that don't do anything but write letters and e-mails when they don't have any business doing so!

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:40 am

Regardless, the dog had an owner and contact information is required on the shipping container and manifest, last I checked. WHY WAS THE DOG GIVEN OVER TO ANIMAL WELFARE WITHOUT THE OWNER BEING NOTIFIED? If there was a health issue with the dog, then the owner should have immediately been contacted and given the opportunity to pull the dog and have him sent to a vet of the owner's choice. The woman clearly stated she wanted to "adopt" the dog. I would like to see the airline's policy on dealing with its contractors. They are the ones that should be refusing to have this person work on their tarmac.

Philosophical question: What if a baggage handler has anti-hunting or anti-firearm sentiments and decides to concoct a reason to pull checked guns off a plane?
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Chukar12 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:57 am

This country is going to take some weight off and leave a mark or two...
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by nikegundog » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:06 am

Cajun Casey wrote:Regardless, the dog had an owner and contact information is required on the shipping container and manifest, last I checked. WHY WAS THE DOG GIVEN OVER TO ANIMAL WELFARE WITHOUT THE OWNER BEING NOTIFIED? If there was a health issue with the dog, then the owner should have immediately been contacted and given the opportunity to pull the dog and have him sent to a vet of the owner's choice. The woman clearly stated she wanted to "adopt" the dog. I would like to see the airline's policy on dealing with its contractors. They are the ones that should be refusing to have this person work on their tarmac.

Philosophical question: What if a baggage handler has anti-hunting or anti-firearm sentiments and decides to concoct a reason to pull checked guns off a plane?
As I said before there is very little information in the article so all we are doing is speculating. Is there some where in the article that says the owner was not notified?

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by proudag08 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:08 am

jimbo&rooster wrote:
ultracarry wrote:After a good chukar hunt I'm using ace bandages, boots, corona ointment, and a anti-inflammatory for my dogs feet. Any good dog needs some r&r after they beat themselves up on those rocks and get stuck my a few cactus needles. Sure I boot up my dog but some boots are garbage after 30 minutes. The owner may not have put them on but you can't force the dog to run and burn up pads. It sounds like a good owner for putting him in a crate and trying to fly him home.

Look at the pic with that cat lady and the obese dogs on the couch. That's animal abuse. When her dogs need insulin shots every day because they developed diabetes from being over weight.

People will always look at a hunting or trial dog that has a short coat and think you don't feed them. I would hire a good attorney and let him keep all that comes out of this.
heck I just ran my dogs through our CRP for an hour last night and 2 out of 3 were bleeding, I wont make any judgement either way on this situation, until I have seen pics of the dog in question I cant say whether this lady is right or wrong. I have seen my older GSP in the summer look bad enough that I may have turned my self in when we have been training alot and running every day. I have also seen some Hunting dogs that were treated pretty poorly over the years.

How many of us have been in the vets office with a dog and every one in the waiting room looked like they wanted to fight you? My vets office Immediately puts me in a room when I get ther because some well meaning citizens have complained.....

I wont say that what this woman did was right. Obviously if they gave the owner his dog back then there is reason to believe that she is more than likely a whack job, but we really dont know.

JIm
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:09 am

nikegundog wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:Regardless, the dog had an owner and contact information is required on the shipping container and manifest, last I checked. WHY WAS THE DOG GIVEN OVER TO ANIMAL WELFARE WITHOUT THE OWNER BEING NOTIFIED? If there was a health issue with the dog, then the owner should have immediately been contacted and given the opportunity to pull the dog and have him sent to a vet of the owner's choice. The woman clearly stated she wanted to "adopt" the dog. I would like to see the airline's policy on dealing with its contractors. They are the ones that should be refusing to have this person work on their tarmac.

Philosophical question: What if a baggage handler has anti-hunting or anti-firearm sentiments and decides to concoct a reason to pull checked guns off a plane?
As I said before there is very little information in the article so all we are doing is speculating. Is there some where in the article that says the owner was not notified?
From the original linked article:

Airport police phoned the animal welfare agency, which took custody of the dog.
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by nikegundog » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:46 am

Don't see anywhere any there that says owner wasn't notified.

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Byrdgirl » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:40 am

If this update was already posted I apologize. But here is an article discussing the vets findings:

As a teaser, this is the beginning of the article: "The veterinarian who treated the hunting dog which was to be shipped from Reno to Texas is attributing his injuries to "hunting-related" rather than abuse."

http://www.examiner.com/dogs-in-nationa ... ted-or-not
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by GUNDOGS » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:06 am

Byrdgirl wrote:If this update was already posted I apologize. But here is an article discussing the vets findings:

As a teaser, this is the beginning of the article: "The veterinarian who treated the hunting dog which was to be shipped from Reno to Texas is attributing his injuries to "hunting-related" rather than abuse."

http://www.examiner.com/dogs-in-nationa ... ted-or-not
thanks for the update :D i would be pursuing this matter for sure if i was the owner, after all the allegations of "abuse" being thrown around by these people commenting on the case, i would not let this go, talk about damaging your reputation in the birddog world especially if you are a breeder, tester, trialer :!: ..of course we all have to be aware of animals or children for that matter that we feel may need help and step in if needbe BUT the comments being made by these people publicly accusing someone of abuse and neglect before the facts are all out are way overstepping boundries, imo...ruth
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by tn red » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:21 am

The comments at the bottom should be a wake up call as how hunting & trial dogs need to get on the same page.Lots of animal rights folks have no ideal about working dogs or any other animal for that matter they see it as abuse. I bet the guidelines for shipping a dog get tighter soon because of this case. I cant tell for sure but what does that link have to do with PETA?

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by GUNDOGS » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:34 am

tn red wrote:The comments at the bottom should be a wake up call as how hunting & trial dogs need to get on the same page.Lots of animal rights folks have no ideal about working dogs or any other animal for that matter they see it as abuse. I bet the guidelines for shipping a dog get tighter soon because of this case. I cant tell for sure but what does that link have to do with PETA?
i didnt see PETA mentioned anywhere, why do you ask about them? i will say those comments at the bottom of the link really "bleep" me off to no end..i wont say what i would really like to say about those peoples comments about hunters since this is not MY forum but if it were i would let it rip i tell ya, seriously!!!!...ruth
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by tn red » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:40 am

PETA logo is right above the ladies bio at the bottom of the article
This was her article from Dec 8th
http://www.examiner.com/dogs-in-nationa ... ed-rehired

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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by whoa on 'em » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:19 pm

http://www.examiner.com/dogs-in-nationa ... ted-or-not

Wow, just read all the comments below the article. Ignorance runs amuck.
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by GUNDOGS » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:34 pm

whoa on 'em wrote:http://www.examiner.com/dogs-in-nationa ... ted-or-not

Wow, just read all the comments below the article. Ignorance runs amuck.
i particularly like the comment from the lady who states no living creature deserves to be hurt or in pain but then states the owner of the dog should be shot :roll: ...ruth
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Cajun Casey » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:59 pm

Any chance of knowing what carrier had the dog? NAIA could lean on them and they need to hear about contractors stealing their customers' property.
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Re: Just sharing a story about a pointer...

Post by Cajun Casey » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:06 pm

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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