Irish setter?

deke · Post by **deke** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:29 pm

Me and my girlfriend are looking for a new pup in the next year or so. I am stuck on GSP or Setter. She wants a golden retriever. So, as i was looking through my gundog magazine i saw an Irish setter that for all intense purposes looks alot like a golden retriever. Does anybody have any expirience with an irish setter? Any reputable breeders you know of? What is the temperment of these dogs like compared to a Lab or Gsp? I really dont know much about them, I do like their looks, But i need a hunting dog not just a house dog that she can go running with. any help would be greatly appreciated.

jimbo&rooster · Post by **jimbo&rooster** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:40 pm

My dad had Irish Setters when I was a kid. It is getting harder and harder to find field bred irish setters. There are a few out there still producing field dogs but not many.

Jim

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:50 pm

You couldn't give me an Irish Setter that wasn't FDSB registered and from hunted blood. I think they call them "Red Setters". Over on PDJ is a guy up in Yakima, Wash, that has a beutiful one. Have looked at photo's of it and I would own one like that. As much style and intensity as you can get. He works on the slopes so he's month at work and I think he get's a month at home then. His screen name is "Red Delicious". Nice guy.

shags · Post by **shags** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:49 pm

There are plenty of field bred AKC Irish Setters and also FDSB Red Setters that are awesome field dogs and companions. You can find AKC dogs that look red-settery, and red setters that look more like AKC field bred Irish. Look up the Irish Setter Club of America site, and click on the national field trial; also check out the National Red Setter Field Trial Club. There's a red dog out there that'll suit ya. We see plenty of both in my area. I used to have some pretty good field Irish.

CHJIII · Post by **CHJIII** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:53 pm

Talk to Kwikirish on here.

ymepointer · Post by **ymepointer** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:58 pm

you want to go here

http://comebackredsetters.nrsftc.com/

or

http://bearcatsetters.nrsftc.com/

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:26 pm

ymepointer wrote:you want to go here

http://comebackredsetters.nrsftc.com/

or

http://bearcatsetters.nrsftc.com/

Yes siree! Those are some pretty nice looking dogs. I have seen far to many Irish setter's that all you could say about them is that they are nice guy's. If I am to ever have another dog, I just might look into that! I'm hoping the dogs I have now out live me by one day so I don't have to bury anymore!

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:14 pm

Stick with an Irish Setter or red Setter with field lines. Show dogs ...ugh it "shows".

Get a Vizsla out of FT lines and you get the gold but not the grooming bill...

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:41 pm

If the Irish setter is only AKC registered, I would be careful about getting a dog that can hunt the way you want.

If the dog is registered both AKC and FDSB you can be much more sure of the dog's abilities to hunt, and there will probably be plenty of trial placements in the dog's ancestry. There are some truly dedicated breeders out there.

If the dog is only FDSB registered, it will probably be out of good field stock and have the pedigree to prove it, but it might not have the full, luxurious coat that the breed is known for.

As a personal note...one of the most spectacular and exciting pointing dogs I have ever had the pleasure of watching was a dual registered Irish setter. She was an amazing specimen.

RayG

Wenaha · Post by **Wenaha** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:46 pm

The FDSB Red Setter is a different animal than the AKC "Irish Setter". The Red setters were developed by a group of people who wanted a red setter that could get it done in the hunting field and at field trials. They crossed to FDSB English Setters to get the bird dog back in the red dogs. It worked, but the AKC does not recognize these dogs as Irish setters, consequently they are registered as Red Setter in the Field Dog Stud Book (FDSB). There are several very good breeders out there. look up Dr. Roger Boser to get started.

Wildweeds · Post by **Wildweeds** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:41 pm

The "Red Deliscous" dog Don is talking about actually was sired by a dog in Ferndale(Shirttail related to the guy in yakima).The delicious dog is a neice to the AKC #1 irish in 2005,it's right in your backyard deke,I've got some dandy English setter started pups right now,bird intro gun into ready to start doin some huntin.If you'd like the number for the local red setter guy Pm me

This guy in Ferndale has a lot of Comeback blood,Desperado,Bearcat and Clancy O Ryan which I belive that the last three of those are all in the HOF.

shags · Post by **shags** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:02 am

RayGubernat wrote:If the Irish setter is only AKC registered, I would be careful about getting a dog that can hunt the way you want. RayG

Just because an Irish Setter solely registered with AKC doesn't mean it's a big fluffy show dog that can't hunt. That's kinda like drawing the conclusion that all the FDSB dogs have the sharp temperament problems that is seen in some of those. As with any breed, a little bit of research is important - but let's not write off a bunch of good dogs because they're AKC

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:54 am

shags wrote:
RayGubernat wrote:If the Irish setter is only AKC registered, I would be careful about getting a dog that can hunt the way you want. RayG
Just because an Irish Setter solely registered with AKC doesn't mean it's a big fluffy show dog that can't hunt. That's kinda like drawing the conclusion that all the FDSB dogs have the sharp temperament problems that is seen in some of those. As with any breed, a little bit of research is important - but let's not write off a bunch of good dogs because they're AKC

Ray is right Shags. He suggested caution in buying an AKC only registered irish setter, or in your words do some research to find an irish that hunts the way you want. I don't see a gross generalization like you are implying.

KwikIrish · Post by **KwikIrish** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:57 am

Irish Setters are, and have always been my breed of choice. Though I have spent all my years showing them, I am really just starting in the field world. As with most sporting breeds, the Irish Setter is a happy go lucky dog who aims to please. The majority of people on here are correct, it is more difficult to find a quality field breeder than it is to find a quality show breeder, but IMO, it's worth it to own this breed. If you do the proper research, you will find a good varitey of Irish when it comes to style, size, range, etc. These dogs tend to be slow maturers, and the breed is challenged by all the typical health risks of a large deep chested dog. These include Bloat, Cancer, PRA, HOD, Thyroid issues, Dysplasia, Epilepsy, etc. Doing your research to find a healthy litter is important, as it is when attaining a puppy of any breed.

Despite my lack experience, this year, I have seen a decent of Irish in the field via the ISCA national FT and the N Walking FT. If you would like some recommendations, feel free to PM me, but I also feel that Shags is a great resource when it comes to knowledge of quality field lines.

Just for the sake of it, here are a few pictures of my show bred Irish working in the field. She doesn't have a 12 oclock tail, but the show dogs are bred to have a level tail set, where as that is not typical in the field dogs. Also, the show dogs tend to be much larger, and always grow a TON more hair, and it tends to be the wrong texture for the field, causing a magnetic effect for burs. Field bred dogs should have the coat typical of most english setters.

Good luck picking your breed!

shags · Post by **shags** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:03 am

The implication is that it would be hard to find an AKC-only registered dog with field ability as a personal gun dog, and that is is false.

edb · Post by **edb** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:18 am

If you do your research there are some very good red setters out there. This was the best family/hunting dog I have had. We lost him to a freak accident couple months ago. I would recommend getting in touch with Scott and Ben Berg of Berg Brother setters. He can head you in the right direction. My dog had the best disposition you could ask for. Scott has some planned breeding for this winter/spring. My wife and kids adored this dog like no other we have owned.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:58 am

shags wrote:The implication is that it would be hard to find an AKC-only registered dog with field ability as a personal gun dog, and that is is false.

Not exactly. It will be hardER..because there will be a lot of show only dogs in that subset some of whom may not have the skills a hunter will want.

If a dog is FDSB registered only it is almost always nearly 100% field bred because an FDSB registered dog cannot be shown in AKC. FDSB is focused solely on performance in the field. That might be the safest bet for the hunter, but in my limited experience, those FDSB only registered dogs(including Doc Boser's) do not tend to have the luxurious coats that Irish are noted for. I personally and not a big fan of combing out burrs and such(I own pointerss), but some folks migh like the fuller coats.

If it is both AKC AND FDSB bred, it is a very good bet that the breeder does competitive field events and may also show.

Incidentally, the dog which I referred to in my original post was a dual registered dog and ISCA National champion and had a beautiful full coat. Her littermate brother weren't no slouch either. He also won an ISCA national championship a few years later.

So you can have it all and do it all if you do your homework.

RayG

Chris Hall · Post by **Chris Hall** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:45 am

There is a lot of good conversation going back and forth.
Personally, my dogs are FDSB and NAVHDA registered.
The Red Setter Field Trail club is the best place to start.
I personally own/train the first Red Setter to recieve a UT Prize 1 Score in 2005
I also personally own a pup from Chapel Valley Kennels - the owner and breeder of the first and only Red Setter Versatile Champion 2009.
So.... great Red Setter Hunting dogs are out there, and can be found with a little bit of research.
If the founder of this thread has any further specific questions, I will gladly add my opinion, for what it is worth.

CJH

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:52 am

Chris and I train and hunt together. His dog Ryland, the UT1 dog, is, all around, as good a dog as I've hunted behind of any breed.

ymepointer · Post by **ymepointer** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:48 am

Red setters and AKc setters were the same thing from aprox 1950-1976, when the AKC parent club pulled reciprocity on registration, so I would bet you that 99% of the "FIELD BRED" AKC dogs go back to Red setter stock. As I recall some dogs whelped in 1976 and not registered till after reciprosity was pulled would be viewed as mutts in AKc while there littermates who were registered earlier or from a prior breeding were recognized as AKC Irish setters! Celtic kennels has some that are still double registered....so be careful, the reality is that the AKC dogs are of two completely different types...field coming form the REd setters coming from English setter outcrosses and show coming from????? ...who knows, I have even heard Afgan crosses.

Just find a red setter pup and watch it's parents and you should end up with a nice bird dog.

KwikIrish · Post by **KwikIrish** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:13 pm

ymepointer wrote:Red setters and AKc setters were the same thing from aprox 1950-1976, when the AKC parent club pulled reciprocity on registration, so I would bet you that 99% of the "FIELD BRED" AKC dogs go back to Red setter stock. As I recall some dogs whelped in 1976 and not registered till after reciprosity was pulled would be viewed as mutts in AKc while there littermates who were registered earlier or from a prior breeding were recognized as AKC Irish setters! Celtic kennels has some that are still double registered....so be careful, the reality is that the AKC dogs are of two completely different types...field coming form the REd setters coming from English setter outcrosses and show coming from????? ...who knows, I have even heard Afgan crosses. Just find a red setter pup and watch it's parents and you should end up with a nice bird dog.

Let's stick to just making assumptions about field bred dogs... :roll:

deke · Post by **deke** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:10 pm

great info guys, I do like the look of the dogs. but what does fdsb stand for? So i am gathering that it is really important with these dogs to get field trial lines, not show lines. Do the field trial lines have a shorter coat?

KwikIrish · Post by **KwikIrish** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:23 pm

Absolutely Deke. Huge difference!

shags · Post by **shags** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:33 pm

Field Dog Stud Book.

'American Field' registry

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:34 pm

deke wrote:great info guys, I do like the look of the dogs. but what does fdsb stand for? So i am gathering that it is really important with these dogs to get field trial lines, not show lines. Do the field trial lines have a shorter coat?

Field Dog Stud Book. Also, Red setters are not eligible for cross registration with AKC. Long story. I will also say that there is no comparison in the personality of an Irish with that of a Lab or GSP and many land in rescue because people get them for looks and can't handle the long adolesence.

edb · Post by **edb** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:45 pm

If you are wanting to hunt stay with the FDSB registered. They do have a shorter coat and some have a white patch. If you look at my photo I posted you can see a white patch on his chest. Like I stated just do your research and be specific on what you want when you talk to breeders. Disposition is very important to me. I can't say enough good things about the one I had. Just picked up another English setter couple weeks ago but on list for another red for wife and kids. My wife always wanted a lab until we brought home the red pup.

shags · Post by **shags** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:57 pm

Cajun Casey wrote: Field Dog Stud Book. Also, Red setters are not eligible for cross registration with AKC. Long story. I will also say that there is no comparison in the personality of an Irish with that of a Lab or GSP and many land in rescue because people get them for looks and can't handle the long adolesence.

Some red setters are AKC registered/registrable. Not all breeders gave up AKC registry, and those that continued still can register their dogs. Those who forfeited registration are no longer eligible.

And with Irish, the adolescence can be more like perpetual than prolonged

deke · Post by **deke** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:49 am

My labs are still puppies, how did you guys get yours to grow up. Just because they get bigger does not mean they mature. Any body know a good kennel to look at for a red?

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:38 pm

Ladies & Gentlemen,
KwickIrish has given some good advise, make sure you do your home work when purchasing, especially in the HD health area, you want to see the HD history of the breeders kennel, especially the parents of the pup you are purchasing. What is the Guarantee given by the breeder, will they replace the dog if HD occurs.
Recently I sold a Red Setter because although he was coming along in the Grouse woods he picked fights all the time with all my other animals, he did not measure up
as a biddable acquition for my home kennel. KwickIrish has a beautiful Irish Setter dog, however getting one like him is not easy to do.
RGD/Dave

Wildweeds · Post by **Wildweeds** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:17 pm

If your seriously interested,PM me,the guy in Ferndale has always got pups of various ages it seems,his blood is a bunch of the field stuff already mentinoned here.I do believe he has his kennel advertised on the red setter website..............Burgandy Lane Kennels.He's no more than a 20 minute drive from your house I'd bet.

deke wrote:My labs are still puppies, how did you guys get yours to grow up. Just because they get bigger does not mean they mature. Any body know a good kennel to look at for a red?

deke · Post by **deke** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:29 pm

They are about twenty minutes from my house and about three from my parents house. I will be contacting and stopping by to check out some of their dogs this week.

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