DNR snare caught my dog

[MN Bonasa]

While doing some late season grouse hunting the last couple of days in northern Minnesota, I was watching my dog weave in and out of the brush as I walked the old logging trail when she came to a sudden stop in front of me to my left. Here she had got caught in a snare right around here nose. The snare was steel cable and had a DNR tag attached to it. I was scared at first that I couldn't loosen the snare but I was able to get her out of it. I assume the snare was for rabbits or some other small game, but what are the odds of having your dog get caught in a snare 1/2 mile back in the woods On a good note the hunting is still good and I had the woods all to myself!! Anyone else ever had something like this happen?

[DGFavor]

My dogs have been caught in those things a few times, a couple times twice in a day - glad I had telemetry to even find 'em and glad my dogs are used to being on a stake out/giving to a lead to where they don't freak out. Now if they get in one, I just get out of that area figuring there's probably more.

[Vision]

My Niece's husband is a federal trapper. He says he catches a lot of dogs but he claims a dog has never died in his snares because dogs just stop fighting the snare and lay down.

[crazyboy]

This is one of the reasons I always carry a leatherman/gerber multitool. Glad your dog wasn't harmed.

[hunterw/newhobby]

Would it be too much to ask DNR trappers to put up some flags in the trees or something to alert nearby hunters of the snares.
Ross

[wems2371]

Our recent NW Iowa trip, when I took this photo, was the first time we've run into a snare. They are nearly invisible afield, and I wonder how many times we've walked by one and got lucky. Like was said by others, Roxi immediately gave to the pressure, and even started backing up. She got caught in it at a very slow gait, as we'd just taken off from watering them up. Is it possible for a running dog to get caught in one of those, with immediate more severe tightening action? I know squat about snare types, but am guessing this was set for a coyote, in order to catch my 62 lb 25"ish girl. My husband had his leatherman, but was able to loosen the snare back up by hand. I've since put some sidecutters in my vest, for solitary trips where I will have to be the one to act. Also long overdue, I've got a length of cord for conibears in my vest--if my dog were to survive the initial snap of the trap. The whole incident left me pondering yet another good use for the Garmin.

As I was previewing my post, Ross, I noticed your question. I have wondered the same thing. Maybe a fiberglass brown push post of a certain length, that looked not much different than a twig, with a tiny tag on top. Or less invasive, maybe a small sign in the parking lot of some of these WMA's where a person could sign that they have traps set afield, so folks like me could consider if they wanted to hunt there. I have to go relook at Iowa's regs., but I thought all traps/snares had to be ID tagged in our state--but this one wasn't.

[jimbo&rooster]

I gave up on a nice little piece of ground this year because as I was unloading my dogs some dude pulled up and his kid hopped out to look in the road ditch. when they pulled away I walked over and sure enough they had a small conibear trap stuck in the culvert. Having run a trap line when I was a kid I didn't mess with the guys set and just loaded up the dogs and went on to my next spot. A couple days later the guy pulled up to my house to let me know he had moved his traps so "we didn't have any issues". My biggest fear is that one of my dogs will get caught in a trap.

Jim

[GSPTrigger]

I have actually caught my own dog in my own traps and snares because I usually take him everywhere I go. It can be a scary thing but each time he is released he is fine. I never set conibears due to the fear of catching dogs. One thing I always do when getting permission on private hunting land is ask the landowner if there are any trappers on their land and I always like to do a walk through a few days before hunting on land that is easy accessible. For some reason we have problems with fence jumpers down here. Another thing that every dog owner should know is how to get a conibear off a caught dog http://www.thecheckcord.com/archives/conibear.html

[isonychia]

I would happily destroy any non dog-discriminant traps I found. Trapping now is pointless, no money for furs and far more dogs out there than trappers. I bet more often than not traps catch dogs. They make some cool dog resistant traps for raccoon now. I guess just be glad it wasn't a leg hold... I would be furious. I also don't see the point in traps on public land, I think snares and leg holds should be banned on public lands. Box traps might be expensive, but they work and are more humane for anything that gets caught. What in gods name does the DNR have to be trapping out there? All the research shoes trapping and shooting coyote only increases numbers, and I have never heard of a recent day fox overpopulation... even rabbits.

[nikegundog]

I would happily destroy any non dog-discriminant traps I found. Trapping now is pointless, no money for furs and far more dogs out there than trappers. I bet more often than not traps catch dogs. They make some cool dog resistant traps for raccoon now. I guess just be glad it wasn't a leg hold... I would be furious. I also don't see the point in traps on public land, I think snares and leg holds should be banned on public lands. Box traps might be expensive, but they work and are more humane for anything that gets caught. What in gods name does the DNR have to be trapping out there? All the research shoes trapping and shooting coyote only increases numbers, and I have never heard of a recent day fox overpopulation... even rabbits.

I guess it would be pretty easy to argue that bird hunting is pointless, I know some guys are paying about $500 for every pound of meat they are bringing home. I trapped as a kid, more because I enjoyed it than for the money, its a hobby and I don't want to impose on anyone elses hunting rights. There are many practices I disagree with in hunting, but I would never call for the practice to stop just because I don't do it. I agree with you are not doing it on public lands where hunting dog work is commonplace. MN has over 11 million acres of public land, probably 7 million acres will never have a dog ran over it, do you really think that with those conditions all public land should be off limits? If you were a trapper do you think it would practical to be carrying around 20 box traps for a couple miles? Have you ever caught a beaver in a box trap? or a coyote?

[slistoe]

I would happily destroy any non dog-discriminant traps I found. Trapping now is pointless, no money for furs and far more dogs out there than trappers. I bet more often than not traps catch dogs. They make some cool dog resistant traps for raccoon now. I guess just be glad it wasn't a leg hold... I would be furious. I also don't see the point in traps on public land, I think snares and leg holds should be banned on public lands. Box traps might be expensive, but they work and are more humane for anything that gets caught. What in gods name does the DNR have to be trapping out there? All the research shoes trapping and shooting coyote only increases numbers, and I have never heard of a recent day fox overpopulation... even rabbits.

I would certainly hope that any traps you destroy you would be caught and held accountable for.

All sportsmen deserve equal opportunity and right to be in the field. The last thing any of us needs is to be cannibalized. The AR movement scored a huge win with the fur lobby due in large part to the apathetic or outright venemous attitudes of their fellow sportsmen.

[slistoe]

My biggest fear is that one of my dogs will get caught in a trap.

Jim

Why? Unless it is 330 Conibear (generally used for underwater sets for beaver) where is the big deal?

[asc]

I would happily destroy any non dog-discriminant traps I found. Trapping now is pointless, no money for furs and far more dogs out there than trappers. I bet more often than not traps catch dogs. They make some cool dog resistant traps for raccoon now. I guess just be glad it wasn't a leg hold... I would be furious. I also don't see the point in traps on public land, I think snares and leg holds should be banned on public lands. Box traps might be expensive, but they work and are more humane for anything that gets caught. What in gods name does the DNR have to be trapping out there? All the research shoes trapping and shooting coyote only increases numbers, and I have never heard of a recent day fox overpopulation... even rabbits.

Yep, lets ban everything we don't agree with. In fact lets just turn on our fellow sportsmen and rip them to shreds while PETA and HSUS sit back and laugh. Freaking amazing...

[wems2371]

These are my state's regs regarding Conibears. I know my dogs head would fit into an 8" trap easily, but am not sure that there is one that is actually that size. A 7" x 7" 220 probably wouldn't snag either of my two, but if it was placed over the entrace to a varmint hole, there's no telling. I also looked up my state's regs on ID tags, and the snare my dog got caught in was illegal without one. Snares seem pretty harmless, but it's another reminder that just because the regs say something is suppose to be a certain way, doesn't mean it is. It could be someone skirting the law or simply someone that is either inexperienced or didn't read the regs correctly (or at all). We don't have squat for poisonous snakes where I live, don't have porkies, I avoid other hunters of any kind, I don't party hunt in large groups, I don't hunt with strangers, I don't hunt near well travelled roadways--so yes, certain traps are high on my worry list. It's something I can't control, because I don't have a clue when I enter a field if there are any out there or not, and it has the high potential to be deadly.

Body-gripping and Conibear-type Traps
You cannot set or maintain any body-gripping or
conibear-type trap on any public road right-of-way
within 5 feet of any fence.
Humane traps, or traps designed to kill instantly,
with a jaw spread as originally manufactured that
exceeds 8 inches, are unlawful to use except when
placed entirely under water.

Some info from "Buckshot Trapper Tales"--both posts

The first trap is a #110 conibear, this trap is 4 1/2 by 4 1/2 " with a single spring. This trap is very popular among muskrat trappers because they're easy to use and reliable quick kills. This trap can also be used for mink, rabbit, squirrel, and some of the bigger weasel. The traps are relatively inexpensive ranging from $50 a dozen new to $30 a dozen used.

The second trap is a #220 conibear, this trap is 7 by 7" with double springs and requires a setting tool to compress the springs. This trap is popular among the raccoon trappers. Care must be used with this trap because if a dog or house-cat sticks his head in there, they will die quickly just like a raccoon. Some states have regulated this trap. If set on land they have to be in dog proof boxes or at least 4 feet off the ground. This trap has been used to catch raccoons, otters, muskrats, minks, squirrels, rabbits, and ground hogs (woodchucks). They run about $90 a dozen new and around $75 used. Four #220 will keep you in coons for a long time.

The third trap is a #330 conibear, this trap is 10 x 10" square with double springs, this is the most powerful and is NO kids toy. The same setting tool that can be used for the #220 will work for the #330. THE SAME CARE MUST BE USED WITH THIS TRAP BECAUSE NO DOG WILL LIVE THROUGH AN ENCOUNTER IN THIS TRAP! What a wonderful beaver trap. I have trapped 100's of beaver with this trap. The trap was designed for beaver but can also be used for otters, raccoons, and snapping turtles. They run around $200 a dozen new and used are about $150 a dozen. I've had some for over 10 years and their still catching beaver every year.

I will state again: You as a trapper have to be responsible. This trap kills dogs and cats, so make sure you are off the beaten trail before you set. Here in Michigan, we have to have the #220 in dog-proof boxes or 4 feet off the ground. If you are trapping a farm, explain to the farmer that you plan on using #220's on the ground and if it is ok with him, then ask where to set so no dog gets caught. I trap farms that want every coon gone and the farmer is responsible. They tie their pets up, and I don't set any #220's within 1/4 of a mile from a road or building.

There was a case last fall in New York that upset a bunch of people. A new trapper was setting dry 12" culverts at the ROAD'S EDGE. Someone was taking their dog for a walk and the dog stuck his head in the trap and was killed. The owner raised heck, and had a right to, because that's irresponsibility on the trapper's part and no one wants to lose a beloved pet. Please make sure you follow the 1/4 mile rule. I try my best to avoid catching pets. Enough on that. Just remember there is no letting the dog go alive in less it is a big dog.

[jimbo&rooster]

My biggest fear is that one of my dogs will get caught in a trap.

Jim

Why? Unless it is 330 Conibear (generally used for underwater sets for beaver) where is the big deal?

I may have over exagerated that statement. My worst fear for one of my dogs is to be shot by some jackass, the fear of one of my dogs getting cought in a trap is simply always in the back of my mind. However even a small leghold trap or small conibear can hurt a dog pretty badly if the dog doesn't just sit and wait for its owner to come help.

As far as destroying peoples traps goes. that might be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. I dont necissarily agree with alot of practices that people incorporate into hunting, from deer and pheasant drives to people using jugs and float nets in the river, but that is their choice. You say that you don't think that they should allow trapping on public land, but i would wager that for every gundog owner that hunts public land there are 10 big game hunters that don't want us there.

I say to each his own..... Trapping is a tradition as deeply rooted in this country as any and fur prices be "bleep", trappers still serve a valuable service thinning out critters that most of us just bitch about....

Jim

[AHGSP]

I would happily destroy any non dog-discriminant traps I found. Trapping now is pointless, no money for furs and far more dogs out there than trappers. I bet more often than not traps catch dogs. They make some cool dog resistant traps for raccoon now. I guess just be glad it wasn't a leg hold... I would be furious. I also don't see the point in traps on public land, I think snares and leg holds should be banned on public lands. Box traps might be expensive, but they work and are more humane for anything that gets caught. What in gods name does the DNR have to be trapping out there? All the research shoes trapping and shooting coyote only increases numbers, and I have never heard of a recent day fox overpopulation... even rabbits.

You obviously have not a clue about Trapping beyond what you "think you know", which ain't much.

1st; I would hope you would be caught and charged to the fullest extent of the law for every single trap you did destroy and held to restitution for them. Perhaps once you saw how much money a Trapper has invested in his traps, you might have a little more respect for what a Trapper puts into his trade.
2nd; "Trapping now is pointless"? Do you not have the slightest clue that many of the very animals being trapped are those same animals that would kill and eat every single Upland Species you might choose to hunt?
I'd rather a leg hold ANY DAY over a snare, as some snares specifically are kill sets that are designed to kill VERY quickly. I've had a 12 week old pup get caught in a leg hold earlier this Fall and within seconds of being released, he was right back to playing and "hunting". No harm, no foul. I left the area, not out of fear for harm to my pups; but out of fear of further disturbing any more of the Trapper's sets, since he sets for Fox, Coon, Bobcat, Possum, etc..... the very animals so effective at killing game birds, destroying their nest and eating eggs like tic tacs.
Box Traps? Seriously? Again, you might want to educate yourself before you spout your emotions on something you are so clearly ignorant of the facts. They work great for Cats.... that's about it beyond the Coon that is so accustomed to digging through your trash that he's not bothered by walking into a box.

There are only 2 traps to be concerned with and both are Kill sets, a Conibear and a Kill Snare. Both are so effective and quick, you'll likely NEVER HAVE A CHANCE of saving your dog, but in many to most States, their use is regulated so as to prevent contact with dogs when legally set for the most part. ie: Under Water, 5' up a tree, cubby sets, etc....

Wems, You should turn the info on that set into your local Game and Fish, DNR, whatever they are called. It's illegal and that Trapper either dam sure knows it and is skirting the law intentionally, or is inexperienced and needs to be taught what is and is not acceptable.

[wems2371]

There are only 2 traps to be concerned with and both are Kill sets, a Conibear and a Kill Snare. Both are so effective and quick, you'll likely NEVER HAVE A CHANCE of saving your dog, but in many to most States, their use is regulated so as to prevent contact with dogs when legally set for the most part. ie: Under Water, 5' up a tree, cubby sets, etc....

Wems, You should turn the info on that set into your local Game and Fish, DNR, whatever they are called. It's illegal and that Trapper either dam sure knows it and is skirting the law intentionally, or is inexperienced and needs to be taught what is and is not acceptable.

Is a kill snare also known as a mechanical snare? I googled it and see springs and such. I think I read those are illegal in my state.

Your right on turning them in. I accidently threw away my notes as to the various WMAs we were at in NW Iowa, but I might be able to look at the sportsmans map again and figure it out. I wish I'd been well versed in their regs at the time...as I would have done it on the spot.

[Winchey]

Almost lost my dog to a coyote snare a few weeks ago, one of the scariest moments of my life, I now carry these everywhere
http://www.snareshop.com/SWISS-C-7-CABL ... ctinfo/C7/ No way your cutting a snare off in short order with a leatherman, if at all. I was able to break the lock on this snare.

[MN Bonasa]

This is one of the reasons I always carry a leatherman/gerber multitool. Glad your dog wasn't harmed.

This is my first year hunting behind a dog, and never once did traps or snares enter my mind. I had more concerns with encounters of the other wildlife that inhabit the northwoods like porcupines, coyotes, running after a jumped deer or even worse a wolf. When the incident happened I did not have any kind of tool on me but the first thing that came to mind was that I wished I had a leatherman or pliers when it happened. From now on I will always have a leatherman on me and it also makes me wonder what are the other must haves one should carry on them when out in the field. A good topic for another post.

[AHGSP]

There are only 2 traps to be concerned with and both are Kill sets, a Conibear and a Kill Snare. Both are so effective and quick, you'll likely NEVER HAVE A CHANCE of saving your dog, but in many to most States, their use is regulated so as to prevent contact with dogs when legally set for the most part. ie: Under Water, 5' up a tree, cubby sets, etc....

Wems, You should turn the info on that set into your local Game and Fish, DNR, whatever they are called. It's illegal and that Trapper either dam sure knows it and is skirting the law intentionally, or is inexperienced and needs to be taught what is and is not acceptable.

Is a kill snare also known as a mechanical snare? I googled it and see springs and such. I think I read those are illegal in my state.

Your right on turning them in. I accidently threw away my notes as to the various WMAs we were at in NW Iowa, but I might be able to look at the sportsmans map again and figure it out. I wish I'd been well versed in their regs at the time...as I would have done it on the spot.

Mechanical may be a description used. They are also commonly known as Stingers, Senneker and several other names. They all have a spring mechanism and locking teeth in common that once an animal is caught, the preloaded spring then "snaps" the cable an extra tight cinch and locks. They are predominantly a Coyote Snare, but can also be used for Fox and unfortunately, ARE a Canine Specific snare. These are not your common snare, rather very specific to Coyote trapping.

Glad you got your dog out Winchey. I suspect you would be much more likely to run into these types of snares up North where you live and hunt, than those of us in the lower 48 of the States.

[isonychia]

I don't want to impose on anyone elses hunting rights

Non-discriminant traps are asking for trouble, snares were illegal in NC, where public hunting land was very limited. I've trapped myself, and contemplate trapping again someday. But if you don't want to impose on someone else's hunting rights, I would think that would include not setting Conibear or kill snare traps where a dog could get it, wouldn't you? Traps are fine, and I think I made that point in my last post, the heat of the battle maybe fogged that. I also feel like excessive beaver trapping was one of the worst things that ever happened to the western landscape... primary use of a Conibear. Also in response to bird hunting being pointless as well... I don't pet my traps or enjoy watching them work.

[isonychia]

2nd; "Trapping now is pointless"? Do you not have the slightest clue that many of the very animals being trapped are those same animals that would kill and eat every single Upland Species you might choose to hunt?

2 species I can think of would be coyote and racoon. Fortunately they make raccoon specific traps that are much less likely to catch dogs http://www.snareshop.com/DUKE-DOG-PROOF ... info/DUDP/ . Unfortunately the research shows that killing coyote, whether with cyanide bait traps or otherwise, actually is more likely to INCREASE those populations.

Furthermore, someone on here was asking about carrying in 20 box traps. I worked with cougar scientists that used box traps for cougar, along with snares, and hound dogs/dart guns. They caught at least one in a box trap in the short time that I was there, and I can assure you they had to hike it in. Given 20 would be impossible... I did have to carry in 30 minnow traps 2 miles down to a river and then placing 1 every 20 meters for the next half mile while wading through the stream for my undergraduate research, talk about a pain (though not as painful as a fish electro-shocker when you have leaky waders). It can be done though

Lastly, my first post was pretty emotional (I come from somewhere were most kill traps and snares are illegal and a lot of people used padded leg holds) and I get that I went over the top a bit, lets just say it was a bad day . I wouldn't destroy someones trap, first off because that's pretty "bleep" hard to do and I'd rather hunt, but I can't say I wouldn't set it off if my dog and I were hunting in that area. I don't dislike trappers either (heck i'v done it, though not using those kinds of traps), I just hadn't thought too much about my dog getting caught in a trap until I saw this, and even then wasn't too worried... that was before I knew what a Connibear was (mostly raccoon trapping where I grew up, and TONS of dogs running all over) and did some research on the web about them and dogs

[slistoe]

isonychia - here is what I hear. Blah, blah, blah.

Illegal sets are illegal sets and have nothing to do with whether trapping should or should not be allowed. And if you want to support further restrictions on trapping in any area be sure that there really are some type of sound reasoning for it because you were completely off the wall with the emotional, illogical rhetoric of the anti- crowd. (making folks carry and use box sets is a completely unnecessary action intended only to be particularly onerous and thereby cut down on the activity.)

[ezzy333]

I would happily destroy any non dog-discriminant traps I found. Trapping now is pointless, no money for furs and far more dogs out there than trappers. I bet more often than not traps catch dogs. They make some cool dog resistant traps for raccoon now. I guess just be glad it wasn't a leg hold... I would be furious. I also don't see the point in traps on public land, I think snares and leg holds should be banned on public lands. Box traps might be expensive, but they work and are more humane for anything that gets caught. What in gods name does the DNR have to be trapping out there? All the research shoes trapping and shooting coyote only increases numbers, and I have never heard of a recent day fox overpopulation... even rabbits.

So you are saying that hunting is much more important than trapping since you are shooting all kinds of dangerous birds and those stupid trappers are only help rid the area of the predators that live off of the birds plus ruin dams and carry desease. Maybe we should let the coons, skunks, rats, beaver, mink, weasels plus the yotes and foxes take over the land and just forget about the bird population that they destroy.

Ezzy

[AHGSP]

isonychia,

I can understand and respect your passion for your dogs, but passion without reason is a sure road to he!! for all of us.
I personally really like what I've heard about the Dukes Dog Proof Coon trap's and think they will catch on rapidly for those targeting Coon. I'm not against Coni's, but I do believe they have their place and that should be under water, or up a tree. Cubby sets with Coni's "should" be safe for dogs, but are still more accessible to a dog than I'd prefer and I think there are better sets for the situation using leg holds. Coyote traps are what they are and it's prudent I think, to be aware of lands where Coyote trapping may be ongoing, whether you agree with the practice or not.

As a former Trapper, you should easily be able to recognize a set, they stand out like a sore thumb to me and I haven't trapped in over 20 years. I recognized the set that got my pup as soon as I noted where they were fooling around and about a second before it had him, I was just a tad slow. Just try to remember that whether you like what they do or not, Trapper's ARE OUR FRIENDS and friends to the very Upland Game we pursue.

[isonychia]

obviously the past three posts went without reading my previous two... I basically didn't say "blahg blah blah" (good response by the way) but I said I take back my first comment, I had a bad day and often find myself in between two sides of a fence being an ecologist gone hunter. There is a right way and a wrong way to do a lot of things and I realize I was wrong in my first statements, too many whiskys I suppose. At least I can admit when I am wrong. Time to move on. Merry Christmas BTW!!! My dog is getting a fried egg over his kibbles in the AM, I think I am more excited about that than my own breakfast. We went snowshoeing today for about 7 miles, going to have to do some foot hair trimming, he didn't like those snow balls much.

[isonychia]

isonychia,

I can understand and respect your passion for your dogs, but passion without reason is a sure road to he!! for all of us.
I personally really like what I've heard about the Dukes Dog Proof Coon trap's and think they will catch on rapidly for those targeting Coon. I'm not against Coni's, but I do believe they have their place and that should be under water, or up a tree. Cubby sets with Coni's "should" be safe for dogs, but are still more accessible to a dog than I'd prefer and I think there are better sets for the situation using leg holds. Coyote traps are what they are and it's prudent I think, to be aware of lands where Coyote trapping may be ongoing, whether you agree with the practice or not.

As a former Trapper, you should easily be able to recognize a set, they stand out like a sore thumb to me and I haven't trapped in over 20 years. I recognized the set that got my pup as soon as I noted where they were fooling around and about a second before it had him, I was just a tad slow. Just try to remember that whether you like what they do or not, Trapper's ARE OUR FRIENDS and friends to the very Upland Game we pursue.

I totally agree! Trappers are our friends, in fact. My first grouse was shot in a ;location a martin trapper told me about, couldn't be a nicer fellow. I hope your pup was OK. As far as seeing them goes, my dog generally sees and smells most things well before I do unfortunately.

[isonychia]

I would happily destroy any non dog-discriminant traps I found. Trapping now is pointless, no money for furs and far more dogs out there than trappers. I bet more often than not traps catch dogs. They make some cool dog resistant traps for raccoon now. I guess just be glad it wasn't a leg hold... I would be furious. I also don't see the point in traps on public land, I think snares and leg holds should be banned on public lands. Box traps might be expensive, but they work and are more humane for anything that gets caught. What in gods name does the DNR have to be trapping out there? All the research shoes trapping and shooting coyote only increases numbers, and I have never heard of a recent day fox overpopulation... even rabbits.

So you are saying that hunting is much more important than trapping since you are shooting all kinds of dangerous birds and those stupid trappers are only help rid the area of the predators that live off of the birds plus ruin dams and carry desease. Maybe we should let the coons, skunks, rats, beaver, mink, weasels plus the yotes and foxes take over the land and just forget about the bird population that they destroy.

Ezzy

I eat what I kill... and I ain't about to eat a Coyote

[troutbum13]

I eat what I kill... and I ain't about to eat a Coyote

It makes me sad to see the elitism that has worked it's way into hunting and fishing. I refer to it as the "river runs through it effect" Once people saw brad pitt chucking feathers for trout, it suddenly became a "spiritual" experience. Often you will hear the prophetic fishermen yammering on and on about catch and release, and the purity of fly-fishing. Forget that there are many fisheries that rely on catch and kill to keep healthy populations, forget that often there are far more effective techniques for catching fish....facts only get in the way of their ego trips.

You are coming across as the same type of arrogant fool. ADC, trapping, aerial gunning, and predator calling are all important conservation and management tools. You shooting birds over a dog is no more spiritual or special than the guy running a trap line. Get over yourself.

[deke]

Here is my perspective. If you are going to set a trap in a place where bird dogs are running around, set it away from where the dogs will be running, use non lethal traps, and mark your traps. It seems like a common courtesy, but we have run across traps out hunting, and if they are right in the middle of a trail we simply remove the trap tie some pink ribbon on it and hang it from a tree. No racoon is worth a dog getting hurt.