Gun Dog Forum

This is just something to chew over for a while, but I was wondering what educated people would want to see in a pedigree. For example; would you rather see a FC, DC, NSTRA Ch., or AKC Hunt Test such as SH or MH in your dogs pedigree. If you have an opinion on this matter let it be heard. I have all the dogs I need right now, but I'm sure others are looking for pups right now and would like to hear some varying answers and explanations. Thanks for you time.

I suppose that for me it would be the AKC and American Field titles. I am just a "bird dog" kind of guy. A dual is also good as it proves his conformation and that stuff.

The American Field stuff does not show up on the papers but will on the official pedigree, "With Wins".

For me it is about getting it done in the field. Does a NSTRA title show on the papers somewhere? Have no idea.

I really believe that winners produce winners.

I'm with the group that would look for American Field (field dog stud book) champion in a pointing dogs pedigree.

These animals have been named champions, by knowledgeable dogmen in open direct competion with other dogs in venues designed to bring forth those natural attributes that trialers and bird hunters hold dear.
These attributes include nose, intelligence, stamina, endurance, sence of direction, trainabliity, style and class.

AKC is the largest registry so that's probably where most people will look for the titles on the pedigree. My preference is a FC and/or AFC MH titled dog. A dual is nice but it seems most of us are limited in time and funds as to which venues we enjoy. For me it's field games and hunting.

Now I will say this. Titles aren't everything. I have seen highly titled dogs that I wouldn't want to have in my kennel because they just aren't that good of dogs. I have also seen some untitled of maybe have on a JH that are incredibly good dogs that I would be happy to own.

When looking for pups don't rely on titles in the pedigree. Get out and see the dam and sire in the field. If this sin't posible, rely upon the opinion of someone that you can trust that has seen the dogs, hopefully on many occasions.

jerr-

which dog is that you have in your avatar?

I like to see CKC/AKC titles because it shows the dog can be trained, DC titles because it shows that the dog can compete and beat other dogs but is still to breed standard, and I like to see some NAVHDA stuff just to have some proof that the dog is versatile.

John

That is 3X FC Dunfur's Hoosier LB or Lil Bud.

Dennis took that picture in Texas and it is pretty good. You Like it?

I need a 3 pointer to finish his AFC. Funnest dog that I have ever owned and ran. The old dog was neat but this guy is amazing and goes forward the best I have ever seen. Keep riding he will be upfront pointing.

Pepper

How was the trial weekend?

i didn't get there til it was over. i don't have anything i am running in weekends right now, unless i can find an AAA or ALAA which is rare. and then it has to be a weekend when i am in town. excuses, excuses. i am usually chasing off to an NGSPA or a National. Board member Greg Jennings did good though.

got there in time to say hello to Muellers, Dixon, Erickson, Benson. All will be training in ND this summer I gather.

My dog, Spot, sired a litter 15 months ago. Three are being run, and they went 1-2-3 in a derby a couple weeks ago, so sounds like they are doing good. All have their puppy points I guess, and now one has Derby, two to go in the fall.

Warning for you guys that like to keep them at home, the pup the breeder kept out of that litter as the best of the lot, could not be saved after swallowing a sock a few months ago. Hate that stuff.

Yes, that is a nice nice looking dog.

No surprise, I am an FC or better type guy. And frankly, I am with Bill Brink on wanting to see hour wins on the dog. In GSP circles, we have two hours that are not AF, those being the AKC Nationals, and the AKC National Gun Dog, so I would include those in, but otherwise would agree with Bill. I haven't seen, and therefore don't know what to make of the new Walking National.

3X FC Dunfer's Hoosier LB

What does 3X FC mean?

wannabe wrote:

3X FC Dunfer's Hoosier LB

What does 3X FC mean?

3 time Feild Champion

Ryan wrote:

wannabe wrote:

3X FC Dunfer's Hoosier LB

What does 3X FC mean?

3 time Feild Champion

I have never heard of such a thing.

Does AKC send you another certificate every time the dog earns another FC?

How many points does it take to become a 3X FC GSP?

How many majors and retrieving points does it take?

Is the 3X FC noted on his puppy's pedigree?

you can get an AKC Field Championship - that is classically abbreviated as FC. and then, in the NGSPA, there are Regional and Specie trials that are one hour championships. under the AF/NGSPA Rules, the dog receives the title Ch. for winning, and RU Ch. for taking second. those are Championships won in the field, so you could call them field championships. those are the type of wins that Bill Brink referred to, except I am pretty sure Bill was talking about pointer/setter trials. not precisely the same as FC, but we understand each other.

if he had National Championships on that sweet looking dog of his, they would be something like NFC (in the AKC) or NC (in the NGSPA).

There is no good abbreviation system for merging the championships from the two organizations, AKC and AF, onto one pedigree, although one dog may win both types of titles. In the GSP world, at least, the AKC and NGSPA trials are cooperatively run.

the hour titles, in my opinion, are a cut above the weekend wins, although no FC of any kind is anything to sneeze at.

I read Pepper as just tellin me, in code, that he has an AKC FC on his dog, plus a couple of hour wins.

old trial guy talk.

did i get it right Pepper?

on the NSTRA question someone raised, i don't think NSTRA titles show on any formal pedigree. neither AKC nor AF record them. but they sure give you a nice looking Cert. for your wall.

That is designation for different titles.

In American Field, every time you win or are runner up in a championship of an hour, you earn a 1 X designation. 3 X is winner or runner up 3 times.

The FC is the AKC designation for field champion that has been earned through the AKC designation.

Tarkus has 28 championships and 3 national titles and would be 28 X.

Salena has 30 championships and would be 30 X, man that is impossible. She has more than any other bitch in history.

Hope that all makes sense for you.

Pepper

LB will have a lot more I hope. That is what we are shooting for.
Would love to stick an NFC or NAFC in there as well.

John and I apparently were posting at the same time. Got it right John, and he is a real keeper. Just have to get him well.

I will get to see John's Spot dog this fall and hope to get to eventually shake his hand.

Love this web spot and am spending a lot of time here. Most everyone seems to be very good and wants to learn.

That is what I want to do, "Learn how to win all of the championships that we enter".

Pepper

I like to see owners just doing stuff with thier dogs in any venue. The fact that they are out their working with thier dogs is a great thing.
That said, when I am looking at pedigree's I am looking for DC's. FC's, AFC's and American Field Ch's. I also love to see SH and MH on peds as well.
From what I have seen on a lot of peds, even those from people that would skoff at the big running AA dogs is that somewhere in their pedigree they are gonna be there. It would seem we owe alot to these dogs and people.
I am still learning this whole game but am finding myself growing adictted to the Field Trial game. So my opinion is relatively newly formed but I think I have the just of it.
The NSTRA trials are a blast. I have ran a few of them and have several friends who run them pretty much exclusively and they have great dogs. I think NSTRA has caught on and is doing so well because you don't need a horse to play, you get to gun for your dog and is felt to closer resemble a hunt.

Mav....

For my breed, GWP's, a FC/AFC and DC are important. A FC or DC with a MH at the end is also very nice.
A DC or FC with a UT prize is nothing to sneeze at either. Not many of them around.

A dog with a Ch/SH title or in the pedigree gives me some hints.
We don't have many, if any AF FC's so they aren't up there on the list, but if one showed up, I wouldn't discount it.

JH's and NA prizes are clues, not much more.

While I like to see NAVHDA prizes, I just give more importance to competitve events when looking at breeding stock.

All of the other vegatable soups available (title wise) are also indicators of abilities, nice to see, but not terribly important for breeding stock.

Do NGSPA Championship titles show up on an AF pedigree? I have never seen FC on an AF pedigree. I understand the multiple hour AF or NGSPA CH titles, but I thought FC was an AKC title.


BTW, I look for NAVHDA and AKC field titles when I look for a pup.

I have a FC/AFC/MH/NAVHDA NA with NSTRA points, but my next project is FC/AFC/MH/NSTRA CH/NA I/UT I. He is almost halfway there and he is only 3 years old. Of course we would attempt the NFC or NAFC if it didn't interfere with the hunting season.

an AF title will not show on an AKC Certified Ped. an AKC title will not show on an AF Certified Ped. a NAVHDA title won't show on either. many people make up their own peds. using ped software, to merge all the peds on one document.

an AF ped., by the way, will have numbers for the dog's wins, and the wins of the dogs get (AF wins, that is).

also, as mentioned, there is a formal abbreviation system for AKC titles, but not for AF titles. the AF titles are a matter of custom or whatever is clearest. you have to be a little careful. sometimes people will go a little overboard.

many breeders will just give the best title the dog has earned, say NFC Fido, and will have a sheet to give out listing the dogs other wins, where, when and what they were. that is the best way.

More importantly - how do you get a 5X Champion rank under your name on here. Jer - you and I are still just pups. You've got potential but I'm afraid of getting culled.

you must be trustworthy, loyal, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent, and voluble.

John, you forgot modest!

Ezzy

Here are the ranks... Looks like I need to add some others...

Grant

Rank: Just A Pup 1
Rank: Junior Hunter 25
Rank: Senior Hunter 100
Rank: Master Hunter 200
Rank: Champion 300
Rank: 2X Champion 400
Rank: 3X Champion 500
Rank: 4X Champion 600
Rank: 5X Champion 700

titles given by the American Field.

Although, I have run my setter in AKC and he is dual registered.

IE Tanner my setter is by AKC titles: Shoeleathers Tanner JH

by american field title he is: CH Shoeleathers Tanner.

His full sister is by AKC titles: FC/AFC Blackeyed Storm MH

by american field titles: Blackeyed Storm

grant wrote:Here are the ranks... Looks like I need to add some others...

Grant

Rank: Just A Pup 1
Rank: Junior Hunter 25
Rank: Senior Hunter 100
Rank: Master Hunter 200
Rank: Champion 300
Rank: 2X Champion 400
Rank: 3X Champion 500
Rank: 4X Champion 600
Rank: 5X Champion 700

When do we get to be a GDF Junkie

I need to add that one for you all... =)

Did not forget modest, Scout's honor. I see I did forget helpful.

As for Junkie, there can be only one.

Doug and John

With you guys on here it will not take too long to get to a thousand. There are some very knowledgeable dog guys here and it is good to "visit" with you here. The discussion that has been going on here about allage and shooting dogs has been great. I just feel that some judges have lost the ability to see what they are looking at, expect something different.

Pick your brians, etc.

Been at the trialing game about 20 years and at age 60, hope to get to do more here in the next 10. As bad as my joints are and 70 might not be fun riding a horse. Don't want to sit in the parking lot though.

Doug, I have a question for you so will send a PM.

Pepper

Here in Utah the GSPCA only run horseback trials and is having thier first Hunt test very soon. So for me here in the west it is NSTRA champ or FC AFC.