Walking VS HB

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raven34
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Walking VS HB

Post by raven34 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:11 pm

I am just curious on what the opinion is on this topic...If you achieve a FC or AFC in walking trials does it have as much value than if it is obtained in HB trials? I have seen this topic skirted around from time to time since being a GDF member but never a thread entirely on this subject. I am just wondering if a FC or an AFC is more valuable if it is earned one way or the other? We do both with our dogs so I am just wondering what the opinions out there are.
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by ultracarry » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:50 pm

I do both... A dog that can only get a FC or AFC by walking is not what I'm looking for. It's great for you to be able to compete walking but its almost a different type of trial.

BTW do you have a mounted scout when your walking?

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by AHGSP » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:53 pm

Show me a dog with brains and talent to run walking stakes one week, then horse back the next, off and on all season long Placing and Winning in both..... and I'll show you a dog I want to own. 8)

Edited to add: Better yet, show me one doing that in the same weekend with an Amateur handling in a walking 1 day and a Pro handling in a Open horse back the next, or vice versa.
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by raven34 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:58 pm

Ultra
We do both...There are more HB trials here. Both my husband and I ride and LOVE it, so it is not an issue. ABSOLUTELY I am always on a horse scouting while Dennis handles!!! We brought our horses all the way to Iowa for the walking so I could scout, so yes in answer to your question we always have a mounted scout. I personally like a dog that can do both... but that is just my opinion and wanted to hear others. Thanks for yours. :D
Bruce I am in total agreement!!! I LOVE the dog that can get it done both ways...
Jen
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:15 pm

I know this may be a sticky subject, but the AFC is a lesser title than the FC. Why? Because it does not contribute to a DC in AKC. I don't think that's fair because it handicaps the owner handler. AKC is all about letters after the name, so why not, if they don't want to give equal footing, offer an ADC and a DC. While we're at it, lets drop the retrieving requirements, also. If a dog has a retrieving accomplishment, then it could be added on, but it's really a burden to clubs to do retrieving trials.

I'll go back to hanging with the Agility folks, now. :mrgreen:
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by brad27 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:25 pm

Depends on what type of dog(s) you are trying to produce. A FC is a FC. If you want to produce top notch walking dogs, the FC proves what you are doing. If you want to produce AA horseback dogs the FC does the same.

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by Sharon » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:57 pm

raven34 wrote:Ultra
We do both...There are more HB trials here. Both my husband and I ride and LOVE it, so it is not an issue. ABSOLUTELY I am always on a horse scouting while Dennis handles!!! We brought our horses all the way to Iowa for the walking so I could scout, so yes in answer to your question we always have a mounted scout. I personally like a dog that can do both... but that is just my opinion and wanted to hear others. Thanks for yours. :D
Bruce I am in total agreement!!! I LOVE the dog that can get it done both ways...
Jen

Are you speaking of AKC trials?

I'm sure the American walking trials do not allow a horseback scout.
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:11 pm

Sharon wrote:
raven34 wrote:Ultra
We do both...There are more HB trials here. Both my husband and I ride and LOVE it, so it is not an issue. ABSOLUTELY I am always on a horse scouting while Dennis handles!!! We brought our horses all the way to Iowa for the walking so I could scout, so yes in answer to your question we always have a mounted scout. I personally like a dog that can do both... but that is just my opinion and wanted to hear others. Thanks for yours. :D
Bruce I am in total agreement!!! I LOVE the dog that can get it done both ways...
Jen

Are you speaking of AKC trials?

I'm sure the American walking trials do not allow a horseback scout.
Yes, the do. Judges ride, gallery rides, scouts ride. Only the handlers walk.
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by slistoe » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:38 am

I had the opportunity to buy a dog once that was a finished FC for what would be a reasonable fee. He had competed in Walking Stakes and finished relatively young. I passed on the dog because if he was to be of any value to me I needed to be consistently competitive in Horseback Stakes. While this dog was most definitely a strong dog that most anyone would be proud to own and hunt/trial with I did not feel that I could count on the record in Eastern Walking stakes to be any guarantee that my money would be well spent for Western Horseback Competition. Sure, there are a good many dogs that are both but.....

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by fuzznut » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:54 am

What would your opinions be if there was a different title for dogs who received all of their points from walking trials? This would allow both breeders and potential new owners to know about the dogs from outside of their areas and in pedigrees. Dogs who do both could still do both if that is what their owners wanted to do.

Instead of wondering which type of events the dogs won in, it would be there for everyone to see. I'm not saying one is better, or worse nor that the dogs can't or shouldn't be able to do both.....but I want to know which the dog excelled in.

As far as the retrieving.....I don't want to see it go away! However, I would love to see the way ret. points are gotten changed. There has to be a better way then call back, after call back, after call back.
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by Vision » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:23 am

fuzznut wrote:What would your opinions be if there was a different title for dogs who received all of their points from walking trials? This would allow both breeders and potential new owners to know about the dogs from outside of their areas and in pedigrees. Dogs who do both could still do both if that is what their owners wanted to do.

Instead of wondering which type of events the dogs won in, it would be there for everyone to see. I'm not saying one is better, or worse nor that the dogs can't or shouldn't be able to do both.....but I want to know which the dog excelled in.

As far as the retrieving.....I don't want to see it go away! However, I would love to see the way ret. points are gotten changed. There has to be a better way then call back, after call back, after call back.
Fuzz
It makes no sense to splinter the titles down when you train your dogs to do what you want them to do. Not very puppy born out of horseback AA dogs grows up to be an AA dog, and not every dog out of walking titled parents is a walking dog.

Continually lowering the bar to achieve a title is a problem. I know they are not popular but bird fields really test a dog. Having 5 broke finds with retrieves in the space of 10 minutes is a true test of training compared to one call back retrieve.

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by dan v » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:38 am

Cajun Casey wrote:I know this may be a sticky subject, but the AFC is a lesser title than the FC. Why? Because it does not contribute to a DC in AKC.
Question. Do the dogs in the Conformation show, within their own breed, beat "all comers" on the path to Winners Dog or Winners Bitch? Yes.

Do the dogs entered in a Amateur Gun Dog or AA stake beat "all comers"? No. But they do in the Open stake.

That is the reason a AFC is not a component of the DC....and shouldn't be.
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by dan v » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:39 am

Sharon wrote:
I'm sure the American walking trials do not allow a horseback scout.
They do. Except that if the judges walk, everybody walks.
Dan

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by ultracarry » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:51 am

Fuzz,

Some of the trials out here are first bird shot on course.. haven't seen a bird field out here yet...

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by Ricky Ticky Shorthairs » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:53 am

The dog that can excell in both walking and HB trials is one that shows me versatility. If you're going to breed to a dog with a FC title, then you need to know how he got that title. Was it pro trained/handled? Amatuer? How long did it take him to finish? If he didn't place in some trials, was he lost? Was he dirty? Was he gone too long and found standing?

I consider all of those things when I am looking at a dog with title. You need to ride and follow dogs as they are campaigned to know what they really are. A dog that came by his title in walking stakes may be what most hunters are looking for. Even if there would be a seperate title, which is a good idea Fuzz, you still need to know the dog, and just not his title.

I'm all for having the retrieve as a test, kinda like the water test for GWP's. One and done!

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by fuzznut » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:07 am

Utra... bird fields are not the same as a call back for a retrieve. Call backs are a PITA! For everybody, club, dog and handlers.

Would have no problem with birds shot on course, but unfortunately not too many places where that can be done anymore. And not a whole lot of clubs have the resources to do it.

Dogs being handled off of foot shouldn't be judged any differently then dogs handled off horseback. The dogs gotta do what the dogs gotta do! But we all know there will always be judges who think differently and judge them different, shouldn't but they do. Just the way the game works. It is up to the handler to know who is judging and what their priorities and biases are. Everyone has them, no sense thinking they don't. I'm not going to waste my money running under a judge with a known prejudice against my kind of dog, that would just be plain old silly.

I believe it is up to the club to find judges without those known prejudices and put them in the judicial saddle. They must be breed blind, not have any friends while judging dogs, and know the rules and expectations for the stake they are judging. They don't get to make it up as they go along. Unfortunately there are some that do..... but not as many as the general population thinks there are.

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by lvrgsp » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:13 am

raven34 wrote:I am just curious on what the opinion is on this topic...If you achieve a FC or AFC in walking trials does it have as much value than if it is obtained in HB trials? I have seen this topic skirted around from time to time since being a GDF member but never a thread entirely on this subject. I am just wondering if a FC or an AFC is more valuable if it is earned one way or the other? We do both with our dogs so I am just wondering what the opinions out there are.
Jen

I do value it differently, and greatly. Here is why..
An FC, AFC, or DC title does not tell me everything I want to know in the dog. East coast courses are tighter than the midwest more walking stakes in the east coast than the midwest, for a person wanting to buy a ft prospect pup I want to know what venues the breeder has been testing against.
So for me personally I put more value on HB trials in the midwest, thats where I live thats where I compete, those are the trials I go to. So I stick with FC AFC DC from midwestern HB trials............there are exceptions but for the most part thats my opinion.
I want to see my dogs compete against a greater variance in competition, not the same 5 walking trials with the same judges year in year out with the same bracemates. And IMO I think you see that more in the walking venues...

I'll go one more for you, someone name me the last DC Shorthair that competed in HB stakes and had hour placements or wins as well?
And are there more duals right now in HB stakes or Walking stakes?

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by PntrRookie » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:28 am

AHGSP wrote:Show me a dog with brains and talent to run walking stakes one week, then horse back the next, off and on all season long Placing and Winning in both..... and I'll show you a dog I want to own. 8)
Bruce, Can it have a long tail? ;) My gyp b!t@h in my avatar has been competitive in Walking, Horseback and Coverdog Championships. No she hasn't won one yet, but I am proud to say I have one I put into all of these three stakes and have been competitive. She has the toughness and brains!

IF I would ever be fortunate enough to win (not accumulate points for a CH) an American Field Walking CH, I would be ECSTATIC! Knowing how hard it is to win a Championship trial, proves how happy I would be.

Correct scouts can be mounted in walking stakes.

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by Dirtysteve » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:41 am

Show me a dog with brains and talent to run walking stakes one week, then horse back the next, off and on all season long Placing and Winning in both..... and I'll show you a dog I want to own.
I agree and I have two that have done just that. One has won an AA one weekend then later won a walking stake.
For me they need to learn the difference of when I'm on a horse and when i'm on foot. A smart dog doesn't take long to figure it out.

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by trueblu » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:47 am

I hate to say that the easy answer is...I don't put a lick of credence to titles. I know some dogs that I consider useless that have not only been FCs, AFCs, and even won a few hour championships AND even one that won an Amateur Shooting Dog national championship. I wouldn't feed that dog! I've seen quite a few breed to these dogs and guess what they produced, NOTHING. But, if a dog is a good dog, performer, stamina, pedigree, pedigree proven to produce, style, conformation, health, etc etc. then I consider the dog a worthy animal, POSSIBLY. Too many breed to titles and ignore dogs that are far better animals. If you don't know the specific dog, the title means squat. But, if a dog has won at the walking level, the horseback weekend level, and has won at the hour or national level, he pretty much has proven that he is adaptable to all venues. I own an old beat up FC AFC who has had thousands of wild birds killed over him in many states, is a great natural retriever, has been handled and won with by other amateurs, won walking and horseback events, and has always been a joy to be around. I'll take him any day over 99% of the dogs out there. Bottom line, all depends on the specific dog.

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by Dirtysteve » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:54 am

One other thing
If I was looking at Eastern dogs I would want one that has won mostly HB stakes. I may be wrong here but I have always heard a west coast gun dog is an east coast AA.
But again this is only hearsay

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by lvrgsp » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:01 am

Dirtysteve wrote:One other thing
If I was looking at Eastern dogs I would want one that has won mostly HB stakes. I may be wrong here but I have always heard a west coast gun dog is an east coast AA.
But again this is only hearsay
Thats my point Brandon, I want to see a dog run on the course I compete with not saying the dog is not capable but they are used to there application, and if you continue to breed for that, that is more than likely what you will end up with, not always the case.

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:14 am

Put me down for a dog that can do whatever I ask it to do.

I cross register mine and therefore they have to be able to be competitive in AKC, AF and US Complete. Oh and when I want to go hunting...they gotta do that too.

I don't do walking Gundog very often, because that is really asking a lot of a dog that has been conditioned to run an AF all age or shooting dog race off a horse, but I have..and have been competitive.

I don't do retrieving stakes with my pointers, because the breed does not require it...and I have enough things to train for as it is.

If I look at a pedigree, I want to see AF all age and shooting dog stock...close up, because that gives evidence of the ability to perform at the all age and Shooting dog level. You can almost always dial it down to accomodate the walking stuff. I have never been able to dial it up.

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by Willie Hunter » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:24 am

RayGubernat wrote:Put me down for a dog that can do whatever I ask it to do.

I cross register mine and therefore they have to be able to be competitive in AKC, AF and US Complete. Oh and when I want to go hunting...they gotta do that too.

I don't do walking Gundog very often, because that is really asking a lot of a dog that has been conditioned to run an AF all age or shooting dog race off a horse, but I have..and have been competitive.

I don't do retrieving stakes with my pointers, because the breed does not require it...and I have enough things to train for as it is.

If I look at a pedigree, I want to see AF all age and shooting dog stock...close up, because that gives evidence of the ability to perform at the all age and Shooting dog level. You can almost always dial it down to accomodate the walking stuff. I have never been able to dial it up.

RayG
Good post Ray.

I think I'll load up the setters and the Astro and go walk a ridgeline for a few chukar. Not a cloud in the sky and they are calling for 51 degrees in the high desert today. :D
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by Sharon » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:01 am

Wyndancer wrote:
Sharon wrote:
I'm sure the American walking trials do not allow a horseback scout.
They do. Except that if the judges walk, everybody walks.

O-kay. Horseback scouts in walking trials are not allowed in my club's events so I'm guessing it's just an "our club" thing. If they were allowed I'd be having one. :)
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by snips » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:05 pm

Chip, Fritz competed and placed in hour HB stakes, also DC Midwest Maverick has HB hour wins, and my DC Sam will run at Ames. Do not know about others.
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by fuzznut » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:13 pm

the last DC Shorthair that competed in HB stakes and had hour placements or wins as well?
How about Katie Tazza's Super Souix? A DC and won just a bit I believe.

If you look at other breeds, there are quite a few DC's that compete in horseback, hour stakes and Championships.
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by Sharon » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:30 pm

raven34 wrote:I am just curious on what the opinion is on this topic...If you achieve a FC or AFC in walking trials does it have as much value than if it is obtained in HB trials? I have seen this topic skirted around from time to time since being a GDF member but never a thread entirely on this subject. I am just wondering if a FC or an AFC is more valuable if it is earned one way or the other? We do both with our dogs so I am just wondering what the opinions out there are.
Jen

Value to whom? My first hunt test placement ribbon was like a gold trophy to me.
The value of somethings depends entirely on the person's regard for the accomplishment.

I'd like to have a dog in National but it isn't going to happen.
I cheer for those who reach that level . They value it highly. :)
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by tenbearsviz » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:17 pm

Selecting a dog for breeding and or to buy offspring from, based on titles of the parents and HOPING for success is like hiring a lawyer from the side of a bus. It may look good on paper but what does it really perform like?

Whether it is a field title or a show title, all titles are subjective to the event they are earned at. Ever heard a show breeder say they were going to take six dogs to Puerto Rico to create a major? What kind of champion is that?? Field titles are the same. National level titles are as well (AKC at least). Plenty of best dog at Westminster could chew your child's face off, turn out epileptic or any number of health issues (statement used as an example and not necessarily based on known attacks).

Not every quality dog comes from titled parentage. Not every titled parents create quality dogs.

To buy a field trial prospect you should watch the dogs work. Look at other offspring. Interact and get a feel for the temperament. Know the parents and then..... roll the dice. Most of it is a crap shoot anyway.

I have seen a hand full of litter mates that are from some well accomplished GSP that run to hear their ears flap. 3 of the 3 dogs all from the same litter, look good on the side of the bus. Won't point a bird even if they pass one on the road they are running.

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by cjuve » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:32 pm

I can not speak for AKC but IMO the walking and horseback stakes in AF are not at the same level. I am not saying that a good walking dog can't compete with a horseback dog and like others say they should have enough brains to do everything. The walking stakes just don't test certain attributes to the same degree as horseback trials.

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by jimbo&rooster » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:52 pm

cjuve wrote: The walking stakes just don't test certain attributes to the same degree as horseback trials.
Other than range, what attributes can't be tested from the ground that can be tested from the saddle? I am not trying to be an "bleep" Im am genuinely curious.

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:30 pm

cjuve wrote:I can not speak for AKC but IMO the walking and horseback stakes in AF are not at the same level. I am not saying that a good walking dog can't compete with a horseback dog and like others say they should have enough brains to do everything. The walking stakes just don't test certain attributes to the same degree as horseback trials.
I actually have somewhat of an opposing opinion on this. I think a walking shooting dog has a far more difficult task than the horseback shooting dog or even the all age dog. Here is my reasoning.

The walking shooting dog is in front of the judges virtually 100% of the time. ANY letdown is immediately noticeable. ANY flaw in the dog's ground application is immediately apparent. The dog has to hunt, and hunt HARD from the time the judge says: "Cut 'em loose! till the time the judge says; "Pick'em up!" The walking dog has to cover both to the right of the handler and to their left... all the while maintaining the front. The walking dog has to be absolutely honest on its birds because the handler has to walk, or at best jog to a find and as stated before, the dog is in plain sight of the judges ALL THE WAY THERE. The walking shooting dog is under a microscope for the entire time it is down. There is no guesswork and no judging what you did not see because you saw it all.

Contrast that level of scrutiny with the all age and horseback shooting dog.

An all age dog that is seen at the breakaway, found to the front, on point at 15, seen again for a few seconds to the front at 30, found again on point at 45 and seen fading into the horizon at pickup might just be your next champion. But honestly...you didn't see all that much of the dog. The scout(s) :twisted: :lol: :twisted: probably saw far more of the dog than the judges. A horseback shooting dog is handier than an all age dog, but can still be out of sight for several minutes at a time during the brace. Both the all age and the HB shooting dog can be very effectively "helped" by their scouts during the brace. The walking dog has no such "help". It has to do it...all on its own.

The ground application of the horseback dogs might well be wider, as I believe it should be, requiring a high level of endurance and grit...but the walking dog has to have a very high level of endurance also, because it has to hunt hard with snap crackle and pop the entire time.

The question is often asked in many different ways, but the question can almost always be distilled to: "Which is better." Often the answer to that question really should be:

"That kinda depends on what you are looking for."

RayG

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by cjuve » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:05 pm

jimbo&rooster wrote:
cjuve wrote: The walking stakes just don't test certain attributes to the same degree as horseback trials.
Other than range, what attributes can't be tested from the ground that can be tested from the saddle? I am not trying to be an "bleep" Im am genuinely curious.

Jim

It's not necessarly range it's independance, it's fortitude and endurance. IMO it's easier to see these qualities from a horseback stake.

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by jimbo&rooster » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:09 pm

cjuve wrote:
jimbo&rooster wrote:
cjuve wrote: The walking stakes just don't test certain attributes to the same degree as horseback trials.
Other than range, what attributes can't be tested from the ground that can be tested from the saddle? I am not trying to be an "bleep" Im am genuinely curious.

Jim

It's not necessarly range it's independance, it's fortitude and endurance. IMO it's easier to see these qualities from a horseback stake.
Ill give ya that.

JIm
A limit on the strap is nice, but the kill has nothing to do with tradition.

cjuve
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by cjuve » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:13 pm

"That kinda depends on what you are looking for."

RayG
That is exactly right Ray I suppose I should have said based on what I look for.
I use trials not to see what a trainer put in but what mother nature put in, I look for different things than most because I like a different dog than most.

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by AHGSP » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:55 pm

PntrRookie wrote:
AHGSP wrote:Show me a dog with brains and talent to run walking stakes one week, then horse back the next, off and on all season long Placing and Winning in both..... and I'll show you a dog I want to own. 8)
Bruce, Can it have a long tail? ;) My gyp b!t@h in my avatar has been competitive in Walking, Horseback and Coverdog Championships. No she hasn't won one yet, but I am proud to say I have one I put into all of these three stakes and have been competitive. She has the toughness and brains!

IF I would ever be fortunate enough to win (not accumulate points for a CH) an American Field Walking CH, I would be ECSTATIC! Knowing how hard it is to win a Championship trial, proves how happy I would be.

Correct scouts can be mounted in walking stakes.
:lol: Long tails, short tails, furry tails Greg, I like a good'un. Dogs like your gyp are what it's all about to me! Hunt them one day and compete them the next, knowing they can and will do whatever you ask of them!
Bruce Shaffer

"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten"
Mark Twain

Bruce, Raine, Storm and GSP's
Almost Heaven GSP's
"In Search of the Perfect GSP";)

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by ultracarry » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:10 pm

Make it interesting... 30 minutes is really nothing. Make it a 3 hour walking stake. :lol:

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AHGSP
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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by AHGSP » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:18 pm

ultracarry wrote:Make it interesting... 30 minutes is really nothing. Make it a 3 hour walking stake. :lol:
That's easy, Sharptail/Chicken hunting in SD; or Ruffed Grouse hunting in the Appalachian's! :wink: :lol: 8)
Bruce Shaffer

"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten"
Mark Twain

Bruce, Raine, Storm and GSP's
Almost Heaven GSP's
"In Search of the Perfect GSP";)

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by RayGubernat » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:20 am

ultracarry wrote:Make it interesting... 30 minutes is really nothing. Make it a 3 hour walking stake. :lol:

Geez -

Isn't that just about exactly how this whole field trial thing got started a hundred or so years ago??

Next you will be wanting to shoot birds on course and have them retrieved AND you will want to count finds and retrieves. Sheesh!

:lol: :lol: :twisted: :lol: :lol:

RayG

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by DonF » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:01 am

tenbearsviz wrote:Selecting a dog for breeding and or to buy offspring from, based on titles of the parents and HOPING for success is like hiring a lawyer from the side of a bus. It may look good on paper but what does it really perform like?

Whether it is a field title or a show title, all titles are subjective to the event they are earned at. Ever heard a show breeder say they were going to take six dogs to Puerto Rico to create a major? What kind of champion is that?? Field titles are the same. National level titles are as well (AKC at least). Plenty of best dog at Westminster could chew your child's face off, turn out epileptic or any number of health issues (statement used as an example and not necessarily based on known attacks).

Not every quality dog comes from titled parentage. Not every titled parents create quality dogs.

To buy a field trial prospect you should watch the dogs work. Look at other offspring. Interact and get a feel for the temperament. Know the parents and then..... roll the dice. Most of it is a crap shoot anyway.

I have seen a hand full of litter mates that are from some well accomplished GSP that run to hear their ears flap. 3 of the 3 dogs all from the same litter, look good on the side of the bus. Won't point a bird even if they pass one on the road they are running.
Good post. I do know a field trialer that took his dof to another area years ago to try for an AKC FC. His dog didn't have any point's at all and there was less pressure where he went, or so he said. He came back without it.
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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Re: Walking VS HB

Post by Sharon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:18 am

ultracarry wrote:Make it interesting... 30 minutes is really nothing. Make it a 3 hour walking stake. :lol:
We have a fireman in our club who is always on the alert for walking seniors. 3 hours and he would be very busy,:)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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