Mix Breeds?

goldenpatch29 · Post by **goldenpatch29** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:05 pm

My question is....
Does anyone have a mix breed dog, which are sometimes called drops, like setter/pointer, or setter/GSP, or GSP/pointer, or have a story, or know anyone that has a mix breed dog.
They can be any mix between any bird dogs, not just the ones mentioned before.
I was just wondering what some of you thought about them, what kind of criticism, positive/negative that some of you have for them.
I dont have any expierence with them, other than I know a few people that have some, but I have never hunted behind one.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:31 pm

One of the best pheasant dogs we have is a GSP x pointer. His littermate is also an awesome dog. They were started as working dogs from puppyhood.

Southwind · Post by **Southwind** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:31 pm

I have a gsp/pointer cross that will be 11 yrs old next month. Best guide dog/ wild bird dog I have ever owned. Paid $35 for pick of the litter when I was in college. Got him to keep my setter company in the kennel. If you want a meat dog that you should never breed and can't trial with, you can usually pick them up pretty cheap. I would never get one again for the two above mentioned reasons. Lots of guides at the preserve I guided at have unregistered/ mixed pointing breed dogs. They are all good meat dogs, but then again its not hard to make a good dog when you are getting them into 500+ points a year.

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:32 pm

Along time ago a huntin' friend had a pretty fair vizsla/weim cross that was a VERY good pheasant dog

It looked like a viz but was silver like a weim. Now adays, he could of sold it as a designer dog for big money

Along with the huntin' part, it rode in the front of the truck, slept in the house, and was a great dog with young kids.

Petroplex Hunter · Post by **Petroplex Hunter** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:57 pm

My uncle hunts an EP/Brittany cross. The dog was free and is a great little hunter. You would never know he was 1/2 Brittany; looks like a full bred EP with a short white coat and black mask.

jimbo&rooster · Post by **jimbo&rooster** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:32 pm

Ive got an 8mo GSP/EP that is shaping up to be a really nice bird dog. Had 3 covey points yesterday on wild quail and pointed and retrieved 10 birds at the preserve today.

Jim

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:44 pm

The things with mixed breeds that needs to be told is you have no ideawhat you may get. There are many tht turn out great but there are others that don't. You have little idea what they will look like or act like. Any pup out of two birddogs is worth trying to use but never intentionally breed a cross bred litter and never breed one thinking you are going to improve upon a breed already in existance.

It is always a gamble and that is all anyone can really tell you.

Ezzy

sdoliver · Post by **sdoliver** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:02 pm

When I was a kid in the late 60's we lived in small town Iowa (real small town Iowa)and we had a liver and white female pointer that get bred my the town brittany. Both dogs were good birdogs. We ended up with a litter of orange and white pointers,liver and white long tailed brittanies and a few shortailed pointers. "Stubbs" was the male pup that we kept. He looked just like the white shorthairs I own today. He and I shot a lot of pheasants and quail together. Some how a few of those dogs were born with short tails. I know because I watched them being born. I always thought Brittanies were born with long tails.I didn't think any are born with stubbed tails.

Southwind · Post by **Southwind** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:26 pm

If you know that the parents are good hunters, by most people's standards, I think it would be safe to assume the pups would be good in the field too. My dog was out of a Elhew female bred to a Rusty bred gsp male. It was a total accidental breeding, but the owner didn't have the heart to cull them. Both parents were good hunters out of proven bloodlines. There was no reason for me to think they wouldn't hunt.

I would hesitate to get a dog from the pound that was a "pointer mix" of some sort as that is a pure crap shoot on whether it will hunt or not.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:41 pm

ezzy333 wrote:The things with mixed breeds that needs to be told is you have no ideawhat you may get. There are many tht turn out great but there are others that don't. You have little idea what they will look like or act like. Any pup out of two birddogs is worth trying to use but never intentionally breed a cross bred litter and never breed one thinking you are going to improve upon a breed already in existance.

It is always a gamble and that is all anyone can really tell you.

Ezzy

EXACTLY!!

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:35 pm

ezzy333 wrote:The things with mixed breeds that needs to be told is you have no ideawhat you may get. There are many tht turn out great but there are others that don't. You have little idea what they will look like or act like. Any pup out of two birddogs is worth trying to use but never intentionally breed a cross bred litter and never breed one thinking you are going to improve upon a breed already in existance.

It is always a gamble and that is all anyone can really tell you.

Ezzy

Exactly.

goldenpatch29 · Post by **goldenpatch29** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:54 pm

Thanks to everyone for sharing your stories. There all awesome!!....I wasnt thinking about starting a new breed or anything....lol.
Just was curious about some the experiences some people have had with those types of dogs.
However, they all sound pretty positive, but of course these are all success stories and Im pretty sure there are a few bad stories as well.
But if you really think about it...all of todays breeds came from a lil mix breeding in the beginning!

uplandrsb · Post by **uplandrsb** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:13 pm

I also have had good experience with mixed breeds.. I came acrossed a accidental breeding of a EP and GWP.. The dogs were going to be taken care of it I did not take them.. So i ended up with a male and female.. Mine are about 4 now and are great dogs.. I have posted them for sale/rehome on here a few times. Great dogs for guiding and wild birds.. These dogs have had lots of training and turned out great! Only reason i am looking to rehome them is becuase i have more puppies coming in and need the room, i have been doing more NAVHDA and havent given them the time they deserve. Great dogs.

highcotton · Post by **highcotton** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:20 pm

A friend of mine had an accidental litter from a registered Setter bitch and male Pointer. His son wanted to keep one of the pups as a pet. He was a good looking dog and could have passed for a pure bred pointer. He turned out to be one of the best bird dogs around. In fact he was so good several people bred females to him. Not a single pup turned out worth a dime.

That hybrid vigor sometimes works for one generation but it's a dead-end after that.

goldenpatch29 · Post by **goldenpatch29** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:30 pm

highcotton wrote:A friend of mine had an accidental litter from a registered Setter bitch and male Pointer. His son wanted to keep one of the pups as a pet. He was a good looking dog and could have passed for a pure bred pointer. He turned out to be one of the best bird dogs around. In fact he was so good several people bred females to him. Not a single pup turned out worth a dime.

That hybrid vigor sometimes works for one generation but it's a dead-end after that.

Highcotton,
I have read a lot of good comments on your dogs and pups out of your dogs, and I have to say that the dog in your avatar is one of the prettiest english setters I have laid eyes on.

rkappes · Post by **rkappes** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:00 am

Nothing wrong with a mutt, just don't know what your getting and I think you have to set expectations.

We have a mutt (GSP/Springer). With time and exposure she's turned into a heck of a little bird dog, wouldn't trade her for the world.

She's not stylish or classy but she gets the job done. I love hunting and she loves hunting so can't really ask for anymore then that. I guess maybe we lucked out when we took a chance on a mutt.

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:47 am

Knew a guy who had a gsp lab mix. Beautiful dog and hands down the best huntin dog I've ever seen. Could run all day like a gsp and swim like a lab. I know most look down upon a dog thats not pure or from championship lines but I been wanting to get me one of those mixes ever since. Even if it does turn out to be a dud.

fishvik · Post by **fishvik** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:01 pm

Ranger351 wrote:Knew a guy who had a gsp lab mix. Beautiful dog and hands down the best huntin dog I've ever seen. Could run all day like a gsp and swim like a lab. I know most look down upon a dog thats not pure or from championship lines but I been wanting to get me one of those mixes ever since. Even if it does turn out to be a dud.

I've owned 4 retriever/pointer or versatile pointer crosses(weim/ches, ches/gwp, gwp/lab and lab/pointer) and one springer/GSP. All but one were outstanding upland and waterfowl dogs and the one was just ok. All lived long healthy lives (10+ years), and were good family dogs and companions. Can't say I have had any duds. All could stay in range, find birds and retrieve. And the great 4 I've owned often out showed pure breds we were hunting with.

postoakshorthairs · Post by **postoakshorthairs** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:54 pm

There's an ad on one of the breeder sites now with a purposeful breeding of a GSP and a standard Poodle. They're touting it as a "puddlepointer type" dog. They're not attractive in my opinion and what they turn out will depend on the genetic mix each one receives.( I can't even recall if the poodle was out of any field stock). People think you'll get the best of both worlds when they cross but they don't account for the other possibilities....health and performance wise.

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:16 pm

Health is a concern of mine as well but if both dogs come from healthy lines while still a risk it should be a lot lower. Not any different then purebred breeding.s

highcotton · Post by **highcotton** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:05 pm

goldenpatch29 wrote:
highcotton wrote:A friend of mine had an accidental litter from a registered Setter bitch and male Pointer. His son wanted to keep one of the pups as a pet. He was a good looking dog and could have passed for a pure bred pointer. He turned out to be one of the best bird dogs around. In fact he was so good several people bred females to him. Not a single pup turned out worth a dime.

That hybrid vigor sometimes works for one generation but it's a dead-end after that.
Highcotton,
I have read a lot of good comments on your dogs and pups out of your dogs, and I have to say that the dog in your avatar is one of the prettiest english setters I have laid eyes on.

Thanks very much for the compliment goldenpatch29. Although Josh (my avatar dog) is not the best birddog I have ever owned, I like him better than any that I have owned. Since you are a dog person I bet you can relate to that statement.

goldenpatch29 · Post by **goldenpatch29** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:07 am

highcotton wrote:
goldenpatch29 wrote:
highcotton wrote:A friend of mine had an accidental litter from a registered Setter bitch and male Pointer. His son wanted to keep one of the pups as a pet. He was a good looking dog and could have passed for a pure bred pointer. He turned out to be one of the best bird dogs around. In fact he was so good several people bred females to him. Not a single pup turned out worth a dime.

That hybrid vigor sometimes works for one generation but it's a dead-end after that.
Highcotton,
I have read a lot of good comments on your dogs and pups out of your dogs, and I have to say that the dog in your avatar is one of the prettiest english setters I have laid eyes on.
Thanks very much for the compliment goldenpatch29. Although Josh (my avatar dog) is not the best birddog I have ever owned, I like him better than any that I have owned. Since you are a dog person I bet you can relate to that statement.

Even though I am a rookie compared to most people on here, and out of the four dogs that have already owned, I do have a particular favorite, but I am wise enough to know that with time that could change....

....and I will never forget any of my favorites, but it makes you look forward to what the future might hold, and if it never changes then thats ok too!

Dakota Swede · Post by **Dakota Swede** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:21 pm

I come from a farming background. My brother still runs about 500 stock cows. All the calves are the result of cross-breeding.

Lots of known advantages to cross-breeding in cattle. Overall health and vigor. Daily rate of gain. Feed conversion.

In dogs - there is no sure thing that the genes for hunting ability will be passed on - either through purebreds or by crossbreeding.

I love my purebred Vizslas. But the best, most motivated and skilled hunting dog I have owned was a GSP /Vizsla cross.

goldenpatch29 · Post by **goldenpatch29** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:33 am

Im sure there are some negative results from mix breeding, but there are also negative results from pure breeding as well.
BUT most of the stories of mix breed dogs on here have a correlation, they all claim that the mix breed dog that is mentioned in there story was the best or one of the best dogs that they ever had or hunted with.
Like mentioned before by others, there are a lot of issues that can arise from doing this, but these same issues can arise from pure breeding as well, especially if the inline breeding is too close. All in all you have to be careful and use sound judgement with any kind of breeding you decide to do.
Again...Im not trying to start a new breed or anything......But like I said before, all Dogs, purebreed or not, were the result of a lil mix breeding in the beginning!
Just a seed of thought!

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:27 am

I'm a mixed breed. Hawaiian & N. Dakota-Scott-Irish. But I hunt good, and I think the best of breeds carried through

I have a GSP that is undoubtably a mix...she is spotted black and her ears are unusually short. She was a rescue from a good couple in c.o. that breed superior GWP's. They had picked her up from a family friend that had a troubled daughter going into rehab and could not bring her dog with her.

I took one look at Emma, and it was love at first sight. When I pulled up to the house, she jumped into the back of my jeep and sat patiently as if the deal was made already.

Her hunting drive is relentless and her demeanor is more than pleasant although unusually human :roll: ...I suppose you never know what you will get, but add me to the list of fans of mixed. I'm exceptionally proud of my dog and wouldn't trade her for any dog with blue ribbons hanging off every square inch of its body.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:59 pm

goldenpatch29 wrote:Im sure there are some negative results from mix breeding, but there are also negative results from pure breeding as well.
BUT most of the stories of mix breed dogs on here have a correlation, they all claim that the mix breed dog that is mentioned in there story was the best or one of the best dogs that they ever had or hunted with.
Like mentioned before by others, there are a lot of issues that can arise from doing this, but these same issues can arise from pure breeding as well, especially if the inline breeding is too close. All in all you have to be careful and use sound judgement with any kind of breeding you decide to do.
Again...Im not trying to start a new breed or anything......But like I said before, all Dogs, purebreed or not, were the result of a lil mix breeding in the beginning!
Just a seed of thought!

They were all except for the Britt a very controlled cross-breeding with a specific purpose in mind and a lot of culling used to get to the goal. Of course issues can arise in any breeding but very few if the dogs are tightly line bred with in a breed and even pretty rare if bred within the line we call a breed. Going beyond that to just plain cross-breeding with dog with unrelated characteristics is a crap shoot and little more.

Ezzy

goldenpatch29 · Post by **goldenpatch29** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:45 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
goldenpatch29 wrote:Im sure there are some negative results from mix breeding, but there are also negative results from pure breeding as well.
BUT most of the stories of mix breed dogs on here have a correlation, they all claim that the mix breed dog that is mentioned in there story was the best or one of the best dogs that they ever had or hunted with.
Like mentioned before by others, there are a lot of issues that can arise from doing this, but these same issues can arise from pure breeding as well, especially if the inline breeding is too close. All in all you have to be careful and use sound judgement with any kind of breeding you decide to do.
Again...Im not trying to start a new breed or anything......But like I said before, all Dogs, purebreed or not, were the result of a lil mix breeding in the beginning!
Just a seed of thought!
They were all except for the Britt a very controlled cross-breeding with a specific purpose in mind and a lot of culling used to get to the goal. Of course issues can arise in any breeding but very few if the dogs are tightly line bred with in a breed and even pretty rare if bred within the line we call a breed. Going beyond that to just plain cross-breeding with dog with unrelated characteristics is a crap shoot and little more.

Ezzy

Your own words "cross-breeding" ...mix breeding...call it whatever you want to. Like I said they all started out that way in the beginning! I am in know means suggesting that this be a common and implemented practice among breeders. Im just making a point that sometimes it is not as bad as SOME people claim it to be, of course you have to perfect the process, but thats just like with everything new that you do! That proccess of cross-breeding/ mix-breeding is exactly how all of us got our particular dogs that we have now, and if certain people would have chasitized and preached against that process, you might not have the wonderful dog you have now.
And it is good to know that the brittany is one of the most pure bred dogs out there! :roll:

solon · Post by **solon** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:11 pm

sdoliver wrote:When I was a kid in the late 60's we lived in small town Iowa (real small town Iowa)and we had a liver and white female pointer that get bred my the town brittany. Both dogs were good birdogs. We ended up with a litter of orange and white pointers,liver and white long tailed brittanies and a few shortailed pointers. "Stubbs" was the male pup that we kept. He looked just like the white shorthairs I own today. He and I shot a lot of pheasants and quail together. Some how a few of those dogs were born with short tails. I know because I watched them being born. I always thought Brittanies were born with long tails.I didn't think any are born with stubbed tails.

http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/conten ... 6.full.pdf

http://www.steynmere.com/ARTICLES1.html

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:36 pm

Golden, I don't think you understand how breeds were started. The crossbreds you talk about were never out of the kennel where they were being bred. It was a closed breeding with possiblt a pup or two kept and bred back to something else. Those dogs were many generations before anyone ever saw or owned one other than the original breeder who was trying to produce a dog that was different than the few breeds they had at the time. They did not produce crossbred dogs for the public to own.

Ezzy

goldenpatch29 · Post by **goldenpatch29** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:47 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Golden, I don't think you understand how breeds were started. The crossbreds you talk about were never out of the kennel where they were being bred. It was a closed breeding with possiblt a pup or two kept and bred back to something else. Those dogs were many generations before anyone ever saw or owned one other than the original breeder who was trying to produce a dog that was different than the few breeds they had at the time. They did not produce crossbred dogs for the public to own.

Ezzy

I understand that, but are you listening, or reading what you are saying

"They did not produce crossbred dogs for the public to own"

That is exactly what they did, because if they didnt we wouldnt have many of the dogs we have now. Yes, it was a long process that had to be perfected, and you are right they prolly kept it from the public view for many generations until they felt they had come up with something that they were happy with and ready to show TO THE PUBLIC!!
But like you said these people started out with Closed Cross breeding to get what they were looking for in a hunting dog.
What Im trying to say is that all dogs did not come from one pure strand of brittany's, setters, pointers, GSP's, or whatever other dogs you want to use.
All these dogs were cross bred in the beginning to get the final product, which are the aforementioned breeds above. The breeds we have today!
Let me repeat myself....I am not trying to start another breed here, I am simply making a point that you are not understanding and I hope this clears it up now!

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