Curious about FF

[Gertie]

I'm nowhere near needing to FF yet but am curious about something... If it is decided that FF is necessary and/or desired for your dog is it better to do it yourself or hire a pro to do it?

[jimbo&rooster]

If you have never done FF brfore, or if you dont have someone to show you how to do it, it is easier to send them off. I decided that I was gona FF my lab myself when it became necessary. I was fortunate to have a guy down the road who had FFd several dogs and once he showed me how to get started I bought a book and went after it. It can be done in 15mins a day but it is a slow tedious process, and can be uncomfortable for the dog and trainer if your not up to it. Alot of folks simply dont want to put much pressure on their own dog. My experience is that people either give up half way through or they get all but done and decide that is good enough.

JIm

or you can always clicker train for the retrieve if you want

[bumper52]

I tend to agree with what Jim posted, EXCEPT for one thing. I feel there is a wealth of information out there on force fetch (articles, videos) as well as forums such as this one. I personally think you should give it a go yourself. What breed of dog?

[Gertie]

An English setter. She's just a few months old so this is a long time down the road. I was more just curious what other folks had done and if there was a negative association between the dog and the person who did the FF after all was said and done.

[birddog1968]

You could do it yourself, or look for a mentor or a trainer that'd be willing to let you sit in on some sessions.....You've got a ton of time to research and educated yourself. I Like to put the retrieve on them before they are entering their second season.....that gives you a whole hunting season to get over what you've done to get the dog steady and build up that drive....I think they are then , usually, ready before they're second season or the dog is near 2 yrs old.

I have forced alot younger dogs but I like to follow the above timeline......Sometimes nstra dogs will get moved along a little quicker but it always depends on the dog....if they're not ready your only going to get into trouble.

[Gertie]

That's good information. I was planning on entering her into a NSTRA trial or two this coming fall. She'd be a little over a year old. I guess I'll have to see how things are coming along and re-evaluate late summer. Perhaps we would be better off to wait until the following trial season the next Spring.

[chuckanut]

Sorry to ask the obvious but what is FF? What's involved?

[Gertie]

Here's an article I found quickly on the internet that describes the basic process http://www.versatiledogs.com/ask/ret8.html.

[bumper52]

I have only ff labs...each dog went through ff a little differently, but the outcome was the same: a dog with a great compulsion to retrieve and deliver to hand, as well as dog who became very confident in other areas as well. Here is some advice I would give a newbie:
1. Be sure to follow through with the entire ff process. Do not give up. You owe this to the dog as well as yourself.
2. Have a goal of making a little progress everyday. Sometimes the progress you are making will be very subtle signs. Also, be aware that during ff, progress gain seem to be painfully slow and then, voila....it will be time to move onto the next step.
3. Do not be afraid to simplify...you need to teach, teach, teach. FF is a lot more than just getting the dog to understand pressure...it's like any other skill...you need to be teaching.
4. Do not be discouraged if you have to take a step backwards. I currently had to do this with the present dog I'm working with. She is somewhat sensitive...not soft though. We got to a point when I was increasing pressure...she was clamming up. Because of the nature of her personality, I decided to back off. I went to one session a day...more praise, less pressure.....results were very good. After a few days, I resumed a little more pressure and each day the dog showed improvement.
5. Be sure to take time to sit back and evaluate the situation....know where you were last week, know where you are with the dog today, and realistically set a goal where you want to be in a week.....you have to be able to subjectively read your dog, as well as yourself as a trainer.

Hope this helps. I am not a pro. But I have ff a fair number of dogs to know the results are well worth it!

[gonehuntin']

It depends entirely on YOUR disposition. If you are not a patient man, hire it done. If you are, buy Smart Fetch and follow it.

[Gertie]

Good advice ya'll. I'm going to remember this thread when it comes time to do it. I'm a pretty patient person and my goal was to train this dog myself if possible so I'm going to try it when it comes time. I'll look into Smart Fetch. Books, DVDs and this forum have been incredibly helpful so far and I'm sure that'll be the case with the FF too. Thanks for the help folks

[Wildweeds]

Start with that setter now,but not force fetching,get it in the hallway of the house and start with the for fun.................. trained retrieve with a ball or toy bumper.................. once or twice is all that is required,if you do it once or twice daily and it's fun for the dog more than likely you'll not have to force fetch IMO.The litter of setter pups I have all seem to be loving to retrieve incessantly/pack stuff around,Started em in the travel trailer hallway and they go nuts over it,daily ritual with them.On their first bird encounter outing they all ran to the wing clipped/blanked birds,scooped em up,ran a parade route and then came to us and willingly forked em over.

[Carolina Gundogs]

Mark Payton has a good FF DVD easily found available on the Internet. He takes a pointer and goes through the process from start to finish. If you do an Internet search and google his name and retrieve it should pull it up. The owners of this forum own Gundogsonline.com. I believe that would be a good place to look for it.

[Gertie]

I've been tossing a toy and a bumper for the pup and she does great in the house/yard but when I bring the game to the field she gets real flaky. I'm going to keep trying and hoping for the best but wanted to get an idea about when to start FF and whether or not I should be the one to do it if it comes to that. I'll also look into the Payton DVD. I think this site is operated by www.gundogsupply.com and I'll sure check it out. Thanks again folks I appreciate your input.

[birddogger]

An English setter. She's just a few months old so this is a long time down the road. I was more just curious what other folks had done and if there was a negative association between the dog and the person who did the FF after all was said and done.

If done properly, there is no negative association between the dog and handler, in fact, I have found just the opposite to be true.

Charlie

[gonehuntin']

An English setter. She's just a few months old so this is a long time down the road. I was more just curious what other folks had done and if there was a negative association between the dog and the person who did the FF after all was said and done.

If done properly, there is no negative association between the dog and handler, in fact, I have found just the opposite to be true.

Charlie

+1. I find that the strongest bond you will EVER have with a dog, is after you ff it yourself. You gain a total respect from them.

[Gertie]

An English setter. She's just a few months old so this is a long time down the road. I was more just curious what other folks had done and if there was a negative association between the dog and the person who did the FF after all was said and done.

If done properly, there is no negative association between the dog and handler, in fact, I have found just the opposite to be true.

Charlie

+1. I find that the strongest bond you will EVER have with a dog, is after you ff it yourself. You gain a total respect from them.

That's good to know. I know every dog is different but at about what age or skill level did you FF? Someone gave a ballpark of 9 months minimum. Does that sound reasonable or is there another benchmark that I should be shooting for?

[bumper52]

In theory, their adult teeth need to be in and they should have basic obedience (at least) ...if not formal obedience...I generally ff around 8-9 months

[MTR]

I was at an an indoor training session that one of our NAVHDA members puts on for people to work on obedience and FF indoors during the winter a few weeks ago. This is a separate event from our chapter and is attended by members and non-members, all are welcome. He asked one of the handlers last week with a year old visla if the dog retrieves when she throws a dummy. She said, yes. He then proceeded to asked the guy with the young lab - he also replied yes. The trainer then commented: "Your dog's may be RETRIEVING objects that you throw, but they are not FETCHING. They are playing a game - you throw something, they see where it goes, they bring it back. Fetch is entirely different. Fetch is when I the dog hasn't necessarily marked an object falling (has not seen it be thrown by you or a helper) and you command the dog to FETCH. The dog better go find something and bring it back. That is why we FF.What happens in the marsh when w bird goes down in the reeds across the water?"

This was one of the simplest explanations that I had heard and it really stuck in my head. It does not necessarily have anything to do with natural retrieve. Just my take on why you FF all dogs.