Pre registered by breeder...

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Ezzy,
I forgot nothing, that breeder can keep all his pups, I don't purchased any of them. In fact I ran into this situation when I looked
at Irish Setters, certrain breeders think they have the right to control what you do with the animal you have purchased. From names to breeding rights, a prospective purchaser should never buy into a situation where the breeder has some kind of legal rights on property that has legally changed hands. A loosing situation for the purchaser, the property is really never completely his.
RGD/Dave

[kbshorthairs]

Several interesting points of view have been posted here. I can understand both sides. I have sold a few litters and bought a few puppies and in my experience, ego is at the basis of most of these disputes. In my personal experience, people with Show backgrounds are more demanding about the naming of their puppies than field trial people. Most field trial people that I have dealt with don't mind if you use their kennel name, but don't require it. Most trial people name the dogs with THEIR prefix regardless of their parentage......and since that was the group of people that I learned from, I thought that was the standard practice. (Personally, I respond better to people that don't make demands.)
Unless a breeder has a line of dogs they have been exclusively involved with for decades, their "foundation" came from another breeder. They did not invent the dog in the fashion that Ford invented the vehicle they sell. So why should their "brand" be placed on my puppy when it could be a product of PREVIOUS breeders work?
Breeders that have whelped litters that I am interested in, have done their research and mated outstanding individuals.......that is why I am interested in the litter. If I choose to buy a puppy sired by "Redneck Deerchaser", but the owner of the Dam is considered the breeder, why should I agree to name the dog after the Dam owner's kennel?
I can't afford to run a string of 20 dogs, but I take pride in the dog that I own and I want him/her to bear the name that I come up with. The little girl I currently own, has the breeder's kennel name as a part of her registered name, but the breeder did not require it. I have nothing but praise for Keith and Robbi and their record speaks for itself. My dogs sire is the product of years of selective breeding, training and trialing by his owner Mr. Wasserman. If anyone has the right to demand that a dog carry their kennel's prefix.....it would be these people. Funny how they let the results speak for themselves instead of making demands.
My experiences have led me to be more selective about whom I deal with in addition to how the pup is bred.

[JKP]

If you have a health guarantee make it worth more than the paper its written on. After reading the health guarantee in my example I can't imagine how anyone would do business with them.

So you mean the buyer has no responsibilities...to protect the health of the dog? You obviously haven't bred (too many) dogs. I won't go into the stories here, but suffice it to say that over 40 years I have experienced some of the most amazing stupidity, carelessness, and poor veterinary advice that have all resulted in conflicts with buyers. As much as you try to make the right match, owner and dog, as a breeder you WILL run into the some of the most amazing stupidity.

A case in point...neutering a dog too young VERY often leads to developmental abnormalities and physiological problems...some dogs grow larger, develop structural problems, don't develop gender characteristics....so you bet, my health guarantee stipulates that you neuter your dog after 16 months...don't like it...then have a nice day. What about the age limitation on HD evaluations....should someone be able to come back after 8 years and claim the dog has hip problems and sue me? demand a prorated refund? How about the guy who doesn't go to the vet for maintenance or injury care? You may think that this doesn't happen...that you can't get fooled by a buyer....black on white is the only way to go...the same for everyone....and your word should be your bond... forget the lawyers. And yes...if a buyer has expectations of me...that's good...as long as they're ready to hear what I expect.

98% of dog buyers, IMO, are good folk....they don't mind discussing the issues...the 2% who do...I'd rather know it before I sell the dog...........and not hear how it got into the antifreeze in the garage...yeah that happened too.

[nikegundog]

If you have a health guarantee make it worth more than the paper its written on. After reading the health guarantee in my example I can't imagine how anyone would do business with them.

So you mean the buyer has no responsibilities...to protect the health of the dog? You obviously haven't bred (too many) dogs. I won't go into the stories here, but suffice it to say that over 40 years I have experienced some of the most amazing stupidity, carelessness, and poor veterinary advice that have all resulted in conflicts with buyers. As much as you try to make the right match, owner and dog, as a breeder you WILL run into the some of the most amazing stupidity.

I never said the buyer had no responsibilities, I said if the health guarantee is worthless then don't even give one out because it is a turnoff.

[ultracarry]

If I'm looking for a dog and find the one I want, I don't care about what the breeder tells me about health certs, years they will honor joints, health etc. In the end its just a contract/ or word. In California you are either an attorney or have one. I don't want any strings attached or have to be asked what I did with the dog to make its ACL blow out. How I choose to fix it is also my own choice.

If the dog is what I want I'm going to buy it. I'll let the breeder know how it does but I'm not going to crawl over and say well the dog has the runs, vet bill was $35 and he has worms so I had to buy pills for $30.

Most people don't have a darn clue how to fix the runs, worming, UTI, and vomiting after eating. Come on, I'm not going to take my dog for any of those things. Most people run to the vet to be told its going to be ok. When you give people an inch when buying a puppy you can expect some to try to streach it to a mile. at any time advice should be given from the breeder but garantees are how you end up with dogs people ruined.

[mountaindogs]

If you have a health guarantee make it worth more than the paper its written on. After reading the health guarantee in my example I can't imagine how anyone would do business with them.

So you mean the buyer has no responsibilities...to protect the health of the dog? You obviously haven't bred (too many) dogs. I won't go into the stories here, but suffice it to say that over 40 years I have experienced some of the most amazing stupidity, carelessness, and poor veterinary advice that have all resulted in conflicts with buyers. As much as you try to make the right match, owner and dog, as a breeder you WILL run into the some of the most amazing stupidity.

A case in point...neutering a dog too young VERY often leads to developmental abnormalities and physiological problems...some dogs grow larger, develop structural problems, don't develop gender characteristics....so you bet, my health guarantee stipulates that you neuter your dog after 16 months...don't like it...then have a nice day. What about the age limitation on HD evaluations....should someone be able to come back after 8 years and claim the dog has hip problems and sue me? demand a prorated refund? How about the guy who doesn't go to the vet for maintenance or injury care? You may think that this doesn't happen...that you can't get fooled by a buyer....black on white is the only way to go...the same for everyone....and your word should be your bond... forget the lawyers. And yes...if a buyer has expectations of me...that's good...as long as they're ready to hear what I expect.

98% of dog buyers, IMO, are good folk....they don't mind discussing the issues...the 2% who do...I'd rather know it before I sell the dog...........and not hear how it got into the antifreeze in the garage...yeah that happened too.

I have had it both ways. Buyers who sounded great and flat out lied to me, and buyers who I was hesitant to sell to that turned out to be awesome owners. Judging people is really not as easy as you might think. And frankly, selling and judging people is less enjoyable to me, I enjoy being with the dogs. So when it comes time to have a litter... I LOVE THE PUPPIES and the training, but I rather dread the "selling." But I have made some fantastic friends from it, also. I guess everybody has to figure their own way to sleep at night living with their choices, and I tend to sleep best knowing I put the puppies first, even if some people get mad because I do ask for written agreement, even though I offer way more than I ask for in writing.

[Ron R]

Most people run to the vet to be told its going to be ok. When you give people an inch when buying a puppy you can expect some to try to streach it to a mile. at any time advice should be given from the breeder but garantees are how you end up with dogs people ruined.

Good Stuff.

IMO, the guarantee is allowing them to see the sire and dam (if both are owned by me) in the field and the pedigree. As mentioned above, advice and guidance will always be readily available. I have bought pups that didn't turn out and never once called the breeder and complained or expected anything in return. I seen the dam worked (she is a Ch shooting dog) and the sire was a proven trial dog. What more can a guy do? The effort was there and the bloodline was there but sometimes things don't go as planned.