Akc Hunting tests

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:32 pm

What do people think of the advanced titles. Five passes with a 8 average. any value to anybody but AKC

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:46 pm

I think there is some value in them. If I only did hunt test and all my dogs were MH, what would I have to strive for? Is there money in them for AKC? You bet. Will they help people keep playing games with their dogs? Probably.

raypoconos · Post by **raypoconos** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:04 pm

No value ... just another title. Any dog worth anything will get scores of 8 or more on the test to begin with .. .just another way for AKC to make money in my opinion. And they will make money on it ... but the dogs won't be any better.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:14 pm

raypoconos wrote:No value ... just another title. Any dog worth anything will get scores of 8 or more on the test to begin with .. .just another way for AKC to make money in my opinion. And they will make money on it ... but the dogs won't be any better.

Um, by definition they will have scored higher. Does that mean better? Is 7 better then 8? What about 10? Once you FC a dog, do you stop running them in everything but championships and nationals?

madmurph · Post by **madmurph** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:44 pm

I am a supporter of and participate in the AKC hunt test program. However, the problem I could see with these new titles is the owner who puts 10 Junior Hunter titles on his dog and proclaims his dog as the ultimate, and touts this dog for breeding, etc., particularly with dealing with an inexperienced puppy purchaser. 10 JH titles holds nothing to 1 MH title. I would have no problem with the owner who puts 10 JH titles on the dog because that is all the further he or she wishes to take their training and he or she enjoys participating in the hunt tests, however.

Please don't attack me, as I am not knocking a JH title. I think that a JH title is great and an owner/handler should be proud upon earning it. It is great for showing your dog's natural ability and some limited training and also for new handler's to learn the system and get involved with the dog games. I just foresee the above as a potential problem.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:02 pm

The hunt test sire and dam of the year go to the people who breed their dogs the most and get people to junior the puppies. this will really make that title meaningless. It is passes not titles that count.

Dakota Swede · Post by **Dakota Swede** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:25 am

Hmmm - I don't get it.

Here is a venue that gets people out with their dogs and bettering their birding skills. If it gets some people interested in working more with bird dogs, good for them.

Pretty sure no one out there is getting a JH title and a FC title mixed up.

Don't understand the negative tone.

bb560m · Post by **bb560m** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:29 am

Dakota Swede wrote:Hmmm - I don't get it.

Here is a venue that gets people out with their dogs and bettering their birding skills. If it gets some people interested in working more with bird dogs, good for them.

Pretty sure no one out there is getting a JH title and a FC title mixed up.

Don't understand the negative tone.

I have seen some people at conformation shows say their dog has dual qualities because it is a Ch. and has a JH - it happens. They aren't confusing it for an FC, but they are making believe their dog is an amazing hunter b/c it got a JH and might be telling prospective puppy homes the same. Not to discount the JH, but that doesn't show your dog is an amazing hunter (which it might still be though).

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:53 am

Dakota Swede wrote: If it gets some people interested in working more with bird dogs, good for them.

Pretty sure no one out there is getting a JH title and a FC title mixed up.

Agree - any activity with their dogs is better than sitting on the couch!

As for what the titles mean - it's like everything else - BUYER BEWARE! An intelligent buyer needs to look beyond titles anyway. I suppose any AKC title could enhance the ability to sell the pups of marginal parents...so in that regard it probably does not improve the breed, but neither does the backyard breeder who sells every pup from every litter from their "AKC registered purebred birddog."

Caveat emptor

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:53 am

Not worth the time. Go run walking trials or test in a different venue.....

Right on. Just about the AKC getting more $$$

Windyhills · Post by **Windyhills** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:32 am

If I understand it correctly--and admit I may not--it's an effort to provide a bit more assurance of proficiency in the dog? Something to allow the sponsors to refute those claims of less worth in their test when they allow as many entries as you want to attain a passing grade.

I'd probably prefer simply making the stats on test results widely available, it would let those who are interested in digging into them get the same info that I think this is designed to help provide. Not positive, but I think they are for NAVHDA--but not for AKC? Talking about times entered vs. number of passes, scores, etc.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:45 am

gpblitz wrote:Not worth the time. Go run walking trials or test in a different venue.....

I tend to agree with the above. If a dog has a Junior hunter title that says a little something about the dog's desire to hunt and its usefulness as a gun dog. If the dog has a Senior Hunter title that says a good bit more about the dog's usefulness as a gun dog. If a dog has a Master Hunter title, that says a good bit about the dog's trainability.

Once you have said what can be said by achieving each of those levels...what remains to be said? In particular I believe that additional Junior hunter "titles" would be pretty much useless, since a Junior Hunter only is required to exhibit pretty much the bare minimum of ability and training that should be allowed in the field to hunt live game.

Any dog that has achieved Senior hunter or higher, should have the talent and training to be competitive in walking gun dog stakes so that would be a relatively straightforward path in my opinion.

The only REAL difference between testing and trailing is a matter of human ego. In a hunt test, every dog that does a good job gets rewarded with a pass. The owner gets something tangible and concrete for their effort and participation. In a trial only the four best(in the eyes of the judges) get any reward and recognition. Outside those four placements, the owner gets zilch. For folks that are used to getting reward and recognition for their efforts and whose egos prevent them from dealing positively with losing, trials can be a very exasperating experience. In a trial there can be only ONE winner. So if there are thirty dogs in a trial...twenty-nine are going to be losers.

That means twenty-nine owners who thought their dogs were good enough to win(and some of them undoubtedly were) were told: "Not good enough today."

The fact that your dog did a nice job and did everything you asked it to do...and the dog got no placement(because other dogswere judged to have done better) can be really difficult for some folks to deal with, but that is the essential difference between testing and trialing. You lose a whole lot more than you win. If you cannot deal constructively with losing, trialing is probably not something you would enjoy.

RayG

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:56 am

Windyhills wrote:If I understand it correctly--and admit I may not--it's an effort to provide a bit more assurance of proficiency in the dog? Something to allow the sponsors to refute those claims of less worth in their test when they allow as many entries as you want to attain a passing grade.

I'd probably prefer simply making the stats on test results widely available, it would let those who are interested in digging into them get the same info that I think this is designed to help provide. Not positive, but I think they are for NAVHDA--but not for AKC? Talking about times entered vs. number of passes, scores, etc.

Windy,

I don't know that posted the scores online will help much, but what the heck it can't hurt. It just that as you travel around the country similar dog work gets drastically differing scores. I've judged HT's for a number of years, I could probably count the number of "10's" I've given on both hands. I've judged with others, especially in JH, that figure "Hey, the dogs gonna pass, let's give'em a "10". That ain't how I roll.

People want to have a MHA? Knock yourself out.

shags · Post by **shags** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:43 pm

The advanced titles would work for folks who have reached their limit of training, either in skill of their own or their dog's, or in training resources; it gives them something to do at the level they choose to attain. At local hunt tets I've seen 3-legged dogs whose handicap would preclude them from placing in trials, but who were servicable dogs; old dogs that enjoyed the ground time; owners who were pretty much clueless about anything but the most rudimentary training but who enjoyed letting their JH dogs go; other folks who for whatever reason didn't have the wherewithall to train beyond a certain level; and well trained master dogs that obviously do the work but don't or can't for whatever reason cross over to trials.

Let folks do what they will with their dogs. No harm no foul to everyone else. The dogs with letters after their names are just as loved and cherished as the ones with letters in the front of theirs.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:56 pm

original mngsp wrote:
Not worth the time. Go run walking trials or test in a different venue.....
Right on. Just about the AKC getting more $$$

and pray tell what is wrong with that. Think most of us have spent most of our live doing just that.

this is a great thing for people who want to use it and a better way for AKC to pick up some income from this than have to keep raising the registration fees or show and trialing fees.

ezzy

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:35 pm

gpblitz wrote:Raising the bar from average of 7's to 8's , 1 point. Big deal!!!! If a dog average 7's on there passes through out MH makes me think two things. 1. H>S> trainer, handler 2. not much of a dog. IMO AKC should leave well enough alone. Don't they bring in enough revenue off the mutts they now choose to register.

Having mastered 7 dogs that I Bred or raised and trained, having ran in many tests where 15 or more Master braces had one or two qualifiers and seeing many very good dogs dq'd many who are NAVHDA VC's and FCs who have very big pedigrees, I am quite certain that very few dogs average even 7 over all their master tests. The Average pass on all levels is 33%. The inconcistency of the judging and the vague rules make it nearly impossible. Minnesota judges make you earn your ribbon.( right, Dan) which is how it should be. My best dogs are not my highest scorers. Out of 45 master passes I have had 5 10's. That is out of 270 scores. I guess my dogs are just no good. We get a lot of birds though.
One man's Mutt is another man's treasure. Who decides what dogs should or shouldn't be registered.
I had a old Gordon Brace mate in one Master test who had 17 master passes. That was impressive. He DQ'd that day. Mined Q'd From Illinois ,I think.
This ,of course, is not the point but for people who think its easy come out to Minnesota and try it. 1 point can be a big deal.
Master advanced would be a big deal Junior or senior not so much.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:06 am

As Jerry alludes to, until there is more uniformity in scoring for HT's, scores mean very little. And agree with Jerry on this: IMO very few MH dogs in MN pass with straight 8's or higher.....more often you see the dog with a 6 that needs the 8 to arrive at the magical average of 7.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:10 am

Howie, I tend to agree with you but the other side of the fence is as a handler it is your job to show what the dog can do in the best possible light you can. And once the dog has performed perfectly the only thing that could happen with another find is possibly a screw up, maybe with no fault of it's own. So evading more bird work after a good one has been the normal practise of most handler's in test and trials. Still doesn't make it right but as long as manners have more to do with winning than actual number of finds, I think you will continue to see it and it is hard to argue against. The real answer is change the rules if you want to see more bird work.

Ezzy

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:44 am

Howie,

I've been in the saddle when a handler has a find works it clean and then makes a beeline to the water trough...trying to run the clock out. If it's hot, I give them some time, but when it feels too long I ride over and inform the handler that their "Hunting" score is taking a hit. They usually get the message.

But, your job as a handler is to handle the dog your way until the judge tells you differently.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:17 am

gpblitz wrote:
Wyndancer wrote:But, your job as a handler is to handle the dog your way until the judge tells you differently
Agreed!!! I just don't think avoidance is the best way to show a dogs ability.

Depending on the dog, it may be.

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:19 am

I would have preferred if they wanted to increase revenue's for AKC that they had just made it 2xMH, 3XMH, ect instead of making it a scores.thing. IMO, that is not what a "hunt test" is all about origionally. That is why it is not a competition. It is the evaluation of a dog that u would like to hunt behind, and that dog does not have to have perfect style, and MAKING IT A scores thing changes the game IMO...

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:33 am

I always want more birds. Most bird dogs work better the more birds they find. Show the judge how good the dog is. Confidence counts the dog knows it's a game.
J

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:45 am

Show the judge how good the dog is

Something that is all to frequently not done in a MH test. If you have a Master dog for goodness sakes show it!!!

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:00 am

I agree with Brenda. i am not sure that this new systems provides any real value to the dog or handler.

I want to say more, but it is Monday and I don't want to start the week off badly.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:03 am

original mngsp wrote:
Not worth the time. Go run walking trials or test in a different venue.....
Right on. Just about the AKC getting more $$$

Thing about that is the only way AKC will make money off of it is if people go and participate..and if people are participating then maybe those people are enjoying what They are doing...So maybe not worth it to you but who is anyone else to tell someone what is and isn't worth Their time if they are enjoying what they are doing

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:04 am

original mngsp wrote:
Not worth the time. Go run walking trials or test in a different venue.....
Right on. Just about the AKC getting more $$$

The clubs running the tests will also get more dollars and most can use that.
I don't about walking field trials. I already Drink,swear, like bird dogs, hunt tests and wild women. I don't think I can handle another vice

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:17 am

Ray,

A SH dog is nowhere near where it takes to have the dog competitive in field trials. A MH should have everything it needs in the tool box for field trials though.

Now the difference between the gun dog and MH is conditioning to flat out run for the entire time and style. Hunt tests you can get away with an out of shape dog where FT you can't. Style is sometimes overlooked depending on how good the competition is.

I'm all for the advanced although I am not going to go back to hunt tests with my current dog. I think the 5xMH would have been a lot better and they could have counted the passes the dogs have already made towards it.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:22 am

I don't see the value, I have no plans on pursuing an 'advanced' title, a dog with an MHA title will look no better in my eyes than one with an MH, - but if someone else wants to pursue it, then I say go nuts. Their money, not mine.

However, the first time I see someone promoting their dog's amazing depth of field talent due to it's advanced JH title, I do believe I will throw up in my mouth a little.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:36 am

However, the first time I see someone promoting their dog's amazing depth of field talent due to it's advanced JH title, I do believe I will throw up in my mouth a little.[/quote]

+1

its already bad seeing a 6 year old show dog that's obviously been turned into a brood bitch running and ripping out birds. JH should prob also have a 2 year age limit.

Steve007 · Post by **Steve007** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:13 am

Dakota Swede wrote:Hmmm - I don't get it.

Here is a venue that gets people out with their dogs and bettering their birding skills. If it gets some people interested in working more with bird dogs, good for them.

Pretty sure no one out there is getting a JH title and a FC title mixed up.

Don't understand the negative tone.

dakata swede,I have a strong background in many very different spheres of dog sports and it is an unfortunate fact that many dog people (though not, of course, all) with some expertise in one field are some of the most narrow, intolerant and uninformed people you're likely to meet regarding other aspects of dog sports. This is not limited to the "field" sport aficionados, by the way, but is always based on lack of tolererance and lack of knowledge. I guess we'd all like to think that our way is the only way, but some of us with a broader background eventually realize it isn't true; others never get to that point.

Again (so as not to get flamed), this is certainly not true of all. But it is true of many.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:41 am

I know it is not the Oirinal topic, but Ultra - in no way should there be an age limit on JH. What about the guy who has never done an AKC event before and has a really nice hunting dog who is 4,5,6,7,8,9 or 10 and he wants to try it out? I had an 8 year old dog that took me years to get her to point again and all I needed was 1 stinking pass. I worked and worked and worked with her and finally was able to finish the Title, as small and insigninficant as it is - it was the journey that meant more. I should still have that right to try and finish.

Back to the original topic now....

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:58 am

Steve007 wrote:
Dakota Swede wrote:Hmmm - I don't get it.

Here is a venue that gets people out with their dogs and bettering their birding skills. If it gets some people interested in working more with bird dogs, good for them.

Pretty sure no one out there is getting a JH title and a FC title mixed up.

Don't understand the negative tone.

dakata swede,I have a strong background in many very different spheres of dog sports and it is an unfortunate fact that many dog people (though not, of course, all) with some expertise in one field are some of the most narrow, intolerant and uninformed people you're likely to meet regarding other aspects of dog sports. This is not limited to the "field" sport aficionados, by the way, but is always based on lack of tolererance and lack of knowledge. I guess we'd all like to think that our way is the only way, but some of us with a broader background eventually realize it isn't true; others never get to that point.

Again (so as not to get flamed), this is certainly not true of all. But it is true of many.

Depends on the breed you have and what it was designed to do. Last I read what a gsp was for nothing said it was designed to be shown. Sporting breeds are designed to be involved in sporting activities not pranced around a ring and be able to stack perfectly, a lot of show dogs could never run in the field and be used as practical hunting dogs, what the breed was ment to do and developed to do.

Now those people who have MH and CH or DC just proved the dog is that much more than just a pretty dog. MH A might be a way for them to achieve more.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:32 pm

I can go to a Dog Show and pretty much pull the ones out who have never been hunted for their intended purpose. Shame, really.

I have a DC and paid a handler because I can't stand being there in person and I want to grab the judges and show them FORM really means.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:38 pm

ultracarry wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
Dakota Swede wrote:Hmmm - I don't get it.

Here is a venue that gets people out with their dogs and bettering their birding skills. If it gets some people interested in working more with bird dogs, good for them.

Pretty sure no one out there is getting a JH title and a FC title mixed up.

Don't understand the negative tone.

dakata swede,I have a strong background in many very different spheres of dog sports and it is an unfortunate fact that many dog people (though not, of course, all) with some expertise in one field are some of the most narrow, intolerant and uninformed people you're likely to meet regarding other aspects of dog sports. This is not limited to the "field" sport aficionados, by the way, but is always based on lack of tolererance and lack of knowledge. I guess we'd all like to think that our way is the only way, but some of us with a broader background eventually realize it isn't true; others never get to that point.

Again (so as not to get flamed), this is certainly not true of all. But it is true of many.
Depends on the breed you have and what it was designed to do. Last I read what a gsp was for nothing said it was designed to be shown. Sporting breeds are designed to be involved in sporting activities not pranced around a ring and be able to stack perfectly, a lot of show dogs could never run in the field and be used as practical hunting dogs, what the breed was ment to do and developed to do.

Now those people who have MH and CH or DC just proved the dog is that much more than just a pretty dog. MH A might be a way for them to achieve more.

Ultra, not sure you could be anymore wrong than what you say in that last paragraph. Showing any animal in a confirmation class is nothing more than competing against a standard that those original breeders set for the breed they were trying to create. Some have been modified slightly over the years but still are pretty much what was envisioned by the creators.

Ezzy

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:45 pm

Ezzy - I don't think what they said was totally off base. Go read a standard definition about any of the sporting breeds and they only mildly mention hunting characteristics. They mention many other things that have nothing to do with hunting capability. It is about looks.

Vizslas in particular have a pretty devisive belief, even though we have 2nd largest total of DC's. What you see are field breeders who prove that a good field dog also looks good. No the other way around. Give me an ugly dog who gets it done in the field any day over a pretty dog who can't find a bird in a dog box.

A sporting breed should not be allowed in the ring unless it can prove it can hunt whatever it is it is supposed to hunt..... Just sayin....

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:52 pm

Buckeye_V wrote: A sporting breed should not be allowed in the ring unless it can prove it can hunt whatever it is it is supposed to hunt..... Just sayin....

I couldn't agree more and vice versa, no dog should be allowed in the field if it can't meet the confirmation standard of the breed. One side is no more quilty than the other, as what we see way to often is the result of breeders breeding to improve one characteristic and not breeding to improve the breed as a whole. In some venues we call it tunnel vision.

Ezzy

bb560m · Post by **bb560m** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:35 pm

Buckeye_V wrote:Vizslas in particular have a pretty devisive belief, even though we have 2nd largest total of DC's.

I thought GSPs and Britts had more duals?

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:46 pm

Ezzy you can't have a competition against a standard. That would be a pass / fail scenario. Just like hunt tests. Unless every dog entered in a show that meets the standard gets a win.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:58 pm

ultracarry wrote:Ezzy you can't have a competition against a standard. That would be a pass / fail scenario. Just like hunt tests. Unless every dog entered in a show that meets the standard gets a win.

No not everydog needs a win but they all have to meet a standard and not exhibit any trait that is a DQ.

In other words if we are judging performance, they will be placed on that and that alone but they would all have to meet the conformation standard to compete. Same thing in the show ring, they have to demonstrate the desire to hunt but would be judged and placed by the conformation standard. All this will do is keep the breed from separating into two distinct type within the breed. It's really something many of us are already doing in the Brittany breed and it is part of the oath of the Brittany Clubs throughout the country, maintaining the breed as a Dual Type Dog. Of course there are some that get lost with their desire to win at any cost.

Ezzy

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:07 pm

The only way to keep the hunt in them would be field then show. Look at English pointers and Irish setters. The show people in those breeds could care less. The AKC English pointers can't hold a candle to the FDSB pointers. A lot of the Irish setters I have observed in hunt tests would be lucky to find a bird. The handlers do a better job and call the dog over to a bush with a bird in it. Out of standard and able to hunt is a lot better than within the standard and no hunt.

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:08 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
ultracarry wrote:Ezzy you can't have a competition against a standard. That would be a pass / fail scenario. Just like hunt tests. Unless every dog entered in a show that meets the standard gets a win.
No not everydog needs a win but they all have to meet a standard and not exhibit any trait that is a DQ.

In other words if we are judging performance, they will be placed on that and that alone but they would all have to meet the conformation standard to compete. Same thing in the show ring, they have to demonstrate the desire to hunt but would be judged and placed by the conformation standard. All this will do is keep the breed from separating into two distinct type within the breed. It's really something many of us are already doing in the Brittany breed and it is part of the oath of the Brittany Clubs throughout the country, maintaining the breed as a Dual Type Dog. Of course there are some that get lost with their desire to win at any cost.

Ezzy

I don't think putting performance before some written standard should be considered lost. They may just not want the same thing as you Ezz.
I could agree that the dog has to meet the confirmation standard to compete in the breed clubs breed championship though, if that is what they want to promote.
Pretty much without exception I like the looks of the dogs that have been bread for performance better then the dual bread and show bread dogs.
As long as the dog is healthy and structurally sound I want the dog that is doing best in the venue I want to compete in, I don't care if it is a dual champ or not.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:51 pm

bb560m wrote:
Buckeye_V wrote:Vizslas in particular have a pretty devisive belief, even though we have 2nd largest total of DC's.
I thought GSPs and Britts had more duals?

The Brittanys are close to having 600 Dual Champions 595 confirmed as of today
http://www.brittanybreed.info/DualChamp ... ex_ABC.php

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:31 pm

I don't think putting performance before some written standard should be considered lost. They may just not want the same thing as you Ezz.

I know what you are saying but what I want has no bearing. It is what the breed needs to stay a Brittany or a GSP or any other breed.

Give me an ugly dog who gets it done in the field any day over a pretty dog who can't find a bird in a dog box.

Luckily we donb't have to make that decission since it is just as easy to have a good looking dog that can do in the field as good as any other dog.

If I HAVE TO GO OUT EVERYDAY AND FEED THEM THEY BETTER LOOK GOOD and there is no problem fining one if you look..

Ezzy

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:37 pm

In some breeds the split between field and bench is so great that they will have a DC again. It simply makes more since to split those clubs than to try to bring them together.

terrylndrs · Post by **terrylndrs** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:39 pm

Hunt test might have more meaning if the AKC set higher standards for the judges instead of have judges that will pass every dog. There are a lot of judges that don't seem to know what the standards are.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:48 pm

nikegundog wrote:In some breeds the split between field and bench is so great that they will have a DC again. It simply makes more since to split those clubs than to try to bring them together.

In some cases you may be right.

Ezzy

gspguy · Post by **gspguy** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:17 pm

Well, I've seen some JH's I'd love to have and some MH's that I wouldn't feed if you had a gun pointed at my head. I think it's in the eye of the beholder and if you enjoy it, go for it.

I ran my dog in JH a few years back and had a good time and it was something to do - and she passed every time down. The venue can also have an effect on the score. When my pooch ran in "real" cover she scored really well. On one of the legs she ran in the area was a grazed over cow pasture. It was a joke and the place looked more or less like a lawn that hadn't been mowed for a couple weeks. I handled the dog to the best spot and stood there to let her work the place over. The judge told me that I needed to walk around like I was hunting. I didn't say anything but I was thinking "it's the dogs job to do the hunting dumba$$ and if I walk away I'll take her out of the only spot that should have a bird in it." Both judges barely passed her on that day.

Like any other dogs you better watch'em run because the letters in front of or behind the name don't necessarily mean they would "trip your trigger".

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:57 am

I stand corrected.

246 GSP Duals and 172 Vizsla Duals. Still, for the number of vizslas versus the number of GSPs I think that is pretty impressive.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:13 am

Buckeye_V wrote:I stand corrected.

246 GSP Duals and 172 Vizsla Duals. Still, for the number of vizslas versus the number of GSPs I think that is pretty impressive.

1946 last Dual Labrador :roll:

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:21 am

I'm talking pointing breeds here. Labs are in a different league all together.

Still amazing