Setter vs Brittany?

isonychia · Post by **isonychia** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:11 am

Well it might be another 2 years but I'm already thinking about getting another dog, the training is just too much fun. I was thinking about getting an English Setter this next go round. What are they like compared to brittanies? I've never hunted with one but have met a few.

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:22 am

They are a brittany with a long tail, a little bigger, and possibly more run, that typically doesn't like water as much. Otherwise, the differences aren't much. Probably get a little better natural retrieve with a brit, but they don't have that beautiful 12 oclock tail while on point.

jimbo&rooster · Post by **jimbo&rooster** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:50 am

Jetjockey

I hate to say it especially on an open forum, but that is a beautiful britt in your avatar.

Jim

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:06 am

jimbo&rooster wrote:Jetjockey

I hate to say it especially on an open forum, but that is a beautiful britt in your avatar.

Jim

Thank you very much but, that's not a Britt, it's an E. Setter!

jimbo&rooster · Post by **jimbo&rooster** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:27 am

DonF wrote:
jimbo&rooster wrote:Jetjockey

I hate to say it especially on an open forum, but that is a beautiful britt in your avatar.

Jim
Thank you very much but, that's not a Britt, it's an E. Setter!

Im pretty sure that dog doesnt have a tail.....

Jim

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:44 am

Im pretty sure that dog doesnt have a tail...

Sure it does...

: 4953b.jpg (13.44 KiB) Viewed 13669 times

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:47 am

jetjockey wrote:They are a brittany with a long tail, a little bigger, and possibly more run, that typically doesn't like water as much. Otherwise, the differences aren't much. Probably get a little better natural retrieve with a brit, but they don't have that beautiful 12 oclock tail while on point.

Good overall opinion. My setter LOVED the water. She was SO natural in everything...pointing, backing, waterwork...just did not have the run for trialing.

Will · Post by **Will** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:15 pm

I'm not sure I agree with the "possibly more run" part....but he does say "possibly". I have had the pleasure to hunt behind several of both breeds and I think they are much like any other....there can be a huge range of traits and characteristics depending on bloodlines, etc. Most of the ES's I've hunted over have been flat out natural bird dogs...beautiful to watch work a field...some get out and work that wind and range farther than others...some were good natural retrievers...others not. One thing I've always admired about the Setter is the STYLE. For the Brits, I've enjoyed a couple of bird crazy wildman dogs that work in gun range and work hard and fast...very busy...not leaving any cover untouched. I've also hunted over a couple that would flat get out and go..and go pretty big...but adjust nicely to the cover. To me the Brits are a "blue collar" gundog that wants to work and loves every minute of it.

heck I love em all if they hunt for the gun and find birds!!!!

Pick the bloodlines and breeding based on what your needs and desires are and you'll love either one.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:37 pm

Purely joking, but isn't a britt a setter with a docked tail who can't run like a setter?

SHORTFAT · Post by **SHORTFAT** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:44 pm

Never met one from either breed I didn't like! they are both great.

jimbo&rooster · Post by **jimbo&rooster** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:51 pm

you know.... this would be alot better conversation if it wer GSP vs. EP.....

Jim

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:12 pm

Docking the tail has been proven to make the dog range closer and retrieve better. I bet we see a dog sleeping on the couch soon on this thread

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:27 pm

I like britts better than setters but both are great breeds. OK, how about an English Pointer?

isonychia wrote:Well it might be another 2 years

Why wait 2 years

.

isonychia · Post by **isonychia** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:19 pm

gotpointers wrote:Docking the tail has been proven to make the dog range closer and retrieve better. I bet we see a dog sleeping on the couch soon on this thread

Really? I have a hard time believing that. Show me the peer review.

On another note, I guess it is just like any other pointing breed, all comes to bloodlines. My brittany ranges rediculously and was not a natural retriever (changed that!

)
What are the two breeds like indoors and around kids as far as average tendencies go?

SHORTFAT · Post by **SHORTFAT** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:43 pm

Did someone say POINTER???

3Britts · Post by **3Britts** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:50 am

I have three Britts, all run at differing ranges, all great dogs to hunt with. The one benefit that I can see for having a Britt over a Setter is that you don't have to worry about a Britt knocking a class or can off the coffee table with that long tail the Setter has.

carlrh42 · Post by **carlrh42** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:41 am

Have owned and hunted a Britt--Setter combo. I was quite happy with the pair together.
CRH

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:03 am

jimbo&rooster wrote:Jetjockey

I hate to say it especially on an open forum, but that is a beautiful britt in your avatar.

Jim

Thanks for the compliment. She has been everything I ever wanted in a brittany and SO much more. Shes a great house dog, a great hunting dog, and shes done more then I could have ever imagined on the trial circuit. Yet she doesn't turn 4 for another 3 months. Im starting to think she might just be that once in a lifetime dog, especially in trials. She finished in the ABC top 10 in AA points last year and we only ran her in AA in the fall. When the newest standings come out for this years AA Dog of the Year, I think she will be in, or near the top 10 again. However, I might have to shoot her, or sell her if she doesn't find a bird next week at Ames!

Shes made us very proud and we know how lucky we are to have her.

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:16 am

Jetjockey, you NEVER post your girl's registered name! Inquiring minds would LOVE to know....who the heck is she? And what's her breeding?

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:36 am

Karen wrote:Jetjockey, you NEVER post your girl's registered name! Inquiring minds would LOVE to know....who the heck is she? And what's her breeding?

Thats because I don't want to JINX her!

chukarmandoo · Post by **chukarmandoo** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:16 am

I had a pointer once, named Jinx

. Now I have Britts

.

tahi193 · Post by **tahi193** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:40 am

The english setters I've known have been more playful and entertaining personality-wise than the Britts I've known. Britts seem to be all business, all the time while ES are goof-balls when not hunting. Of course, this is purely anecdotal and it may just come down to breeding.

rkappes · Post by **rkappes** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:51 am

isonychia wrote:
gotpointers wrote:Docking the tail has been proven to make the dog range closer and retrieve better. I bet we see a dog sleeping on the couch soon on this thread
What are the two breeds like indoors and around kids as far as average tendencies go?

Every kid should have a britt!
My 5 year old niece thought Georgia needed some bunny ears.

highcotton · Post by **highcotton** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:49 pm

There is a lot more variation within the breeds than between the breeds.

JoePaTurfShoes · Post by **JoePaTurfShoes** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:45 am

Ever consider a Boykin?

goldenpatch29 · Post by **goldenpatch29** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:01 pm

highcotton wrote:There is a lot more variation within the breeds than between the breeds.

+1

Birddawg · Post by **Birddawg** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:46 pm

Buckeye_V wrote:Purely joking, but isn't a britt a setter with a docked tail who can't run like a setter?

LOL,,,,my female Britt is long and leggy,,,,this is a pic of her leaving her competition's (an English Setter) dk in the dirt off the line at a trial last fall.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn26 ... G_0479.jpg

3Britts · Post by **3Britts** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:44 pm

tahi193 wrote:The english setters I've known have been more playful and entertaining personality-wise than the Britts I've known. Britts seem to be all business, all the time while ES are goof-balls when not hunting. Of course, this is purely anecdotal and it may just come down to breeding.

You have never met my Brittanys. The oldest is 7 and still likes to play, hunt and sit on my lap.

bigdaddy · Post by **bigdaddy** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:47 am

Buckeye_V wrote:Purely joking, but isn't a britt a setter with a docked tail who can't run like a setter?

I always thought a setter was a pointer that needed grooming.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:58 pm

3Britts wrote:
tahi193 wrote:The english setters I've known have been more playful and entertaining personality-wise than the Britts I've known. Britts seem to be all business, all the time while ES are goof-balls when not hunting. Of course, this is purely anecdotal and it may just come down to breeding.
You have never met my Brittanys. The oldest is 7 and still likes to play, hunt and sit on my lap.

My oldest is 8 and normally is the one to start the chase or whatever the game is for the day. And none of them realize they aren't really lap dogs. But I will admit they are pretty much all business in the field.

Ezzy

jlowery · Post by **jlowery** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:54 pm

I have the Britt Setter Combo, Both great dogs, my Britt is great close working dog on pheasants, and my setter is my Trial dog. Just depends on what you want. My Setter will flat get out there and run, he'll swim, and great around my 19 month old son. And i have to agree about the tail it'll get a Glass or a cup of the table, but so will my son, HAHA!!! Do your homework, and see what suits your taste buds, JMO. Good Luck and God Speed, again, +1 why wait two years

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:07 pm

Iso,
Having trained more than a few of both it all depends on the line you pick from, do your home work especially the HD
testing, when you purchase a Setter, much different than the Brit when it comes to HD. The layed back Setter attitude will be different for you also, compared to the high energy attitude of the Brit. Style in the Grouse woods will be similar if you have a Llew except for the high tail, if you get a Ryman Setter, the floating style will be a big change for you to watch. Definitely investigate the Setter line before you purchase. Most men here in the east, have one or the other, but not both. I did know a man who had a Brit and a Llew from Lynn Hill, the dogs worked well together and he had little problem working them as a mixed brace in the Grouse woods.
Hope this helped a little.
RGD/Dave

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:31 am

Lifes too short just to have one bird dog. Would you go golfing with just one club? If a little bit is good a then a whole lot must be better!

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:43 pm

gotpointers,
Heck life is to short to just own 3 gun dogs, a man should own at least 5 at all times!
RGD/Dave

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:27 pm

goggey perry used to hunt rabbits like that,he had 4 beagles.boy that was something to see here hunting in crossforks near kinneys bar.
he was like general standing out there .

hi-tailyn · Post by **hi-tailyn** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:16 pm

Buckeye_V wrote:Purely joking, but isn't a britt a setter with a docked tail who can't run like a setter?

Purely a observation. When have Britts become considerably larger than male GSP and Pointers? The picture of the final 4 at AKC Nationals looks odd.

dac · Post by **dac** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:19 pm

hi-tailyn wrote:
Buckeye_V wrote:Purely joking, but isn't a britt a setter with a docked tail who can't run like a setter?
Purely a observation. When have Britts become considerably larger than male GSP and Pointers? The picture of the final 4 at AKC Nationals looks odd.

Now that's a Big Britteny, something tells me that there's a little something extra in that dogs bloodline.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:01 pm

hi-tailyn wrote:
Buckeye_V wrote:Purely joking, but isn't a britt a setter with a docked tail who can't run like a setter?
Purely a observation. When have Britts become considerably larger than male GSP and Pointers? The picture of the final 4 at AKC Nationals looks odd.

Thats what you get when you forget there is a standard and are willing to breed to anything as long as it can run and find a bird. That is a shame. No way can you say it is a Britt. I was really impressed when they annouced the winners and we had three breeds represented. But you just can't brag that a Britt placed after looking at that.

Ezzy

Birddawg · Post by **Birddawg** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:29 am

ezzy333 wrote:
hi-tailyn wrote:
Buckeye_V wrote:Purely joking, but isn't a britt a setter with a docked tail who can't run like a setter?
Purely a observation. When have Britts become considerably larger than male GSP and Pointers? The picture of the final 4 at AKC Nationals looks odd.
Thats what you get when you forget there is a standard and are willing to breed to anything as long as it can run and find a bird. That is a shame. No way can you say it is a Britt. I was really impressed when they annouced the winners and we had three breeds represented. But you just can't brag that a Britt placed after looking at that.

Ezzy

I was looking at that pic, and decided to look up the standard for Britts. 20.5 inches tall measured from the ground to the highestpoint of the shoulder is the max. Then i put my forward leg in the position that the person holding that britts forward bent knee is in and measured....mine is 20.5 inches high in that position. Now im a short guy at 5'9" and of course i have no idea how big the gentleman is holding that dog. But...that does not look too far off where the top of his bent knee being about even with that dogs shoulder. I dont know, just my observation.....maybe a larg britt compared to the standard, and small gsp and eps compared to their standard. I brought my female inside and held her in that position with my foot forward and bent like his, my knee was at the top of her back. Just try it out on yours, id be intrested in your findings. I do agree it looks out of wack in that pic though, but come on, we have all seen small gsps. If you look to the gsp in front of that britt, notice the guys left forward bent knee is above his gsps back....thats a small gsp in my opinion.

bb560m · Post by **bb560m** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:40 am

ezzy333 wrote:
hi-tailyn wrote:
Buckeye_V wrote:Purely joking, but isn't a britt a setter with a docked tail who can't run like a setter?
Purely a observation. When have Britts become considerably larger than male GSP and Pointers? The picture of the final 4 at AKC Nationals looks odd.
Thats what you get when you forget there is a standard and are willing to breed to anything as long as it can run and find a bird. That is a shame. No way can you say it is a Britt. I was really impressed when they annouced the winners and we had three breeds represented. But you just can't brag that a Britt placed after looking at that.

Ezzy

It's sort of like what's happening to vizslas - dang pointers coming in. The ones that are white get sold off as pets and they keep the ones with less white and call them vizslas and start breeding. They have so much white on them it's embarrassing. At least the vizsla nationals require a DNA test and qualify on the line - keeps those cheaters away from that event. If you want a vizsla that runs like a pointer - get a pointer.

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:49 am

Gentlemen,
They have been breeding long legged Brits in Texas for many many years now, this is what happens when the breed standard criterias are removed from entry qualifications, course the Small Setters have been getting away with it for years. You can't bitch about a long legged Brit, unless you bitch about a Small English Setter, the quaifications must be breed universal. What is good for one is good for all. The Big Brit has as much right to qualify as a small English Setter. If AKC inforced the breed standard qualification, none of this would have happened.
RGD/Dave

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:59 am

First off, It's sad when people base an opinion off a simple picture without knowing ANYTHING else. That picture is deceiving. Sure, he's a big Brit, but not huge like the picture makes him look. The EP and the first GSP are females that are on the smaller size. I love it when people say "that Brit MUST have something else in it". I can show you a picture of a Brit from almost the exact same breeding that has longer legs yet, and only weighs 32 lbs plus she's almost pure orange. I plan on breeding to that exact line of dogs because my female is barely within the breed standard and I'd like to get a little more size to the pups. If I happen to get a pup that's too small for the breed standard and one that's too big for the breed standard are some of you guys going to say "those puppies MUST have something different in them? Besides, I could care less how a Brit looks in a friggen show ring. Breeding dogs to put in a show ring is something that Americans put into the breed, and not what the original intent of the breed was about. Brits are hunting dogs first and foremost. If someone wants a dual dog, that dog should HAVE to win a championship to prove its a bird dog first and foremost. Putting dogs in small weekend trials with low competition just to pin them with a DC title does nothing to help the breed. Besides, most pups are picked well before they mature into full size dogs. My pup, and all but one female in her litter, are all smaller then both the sire and bitch. Should I stop trailing her because she's not a perfect show dog and would never win in a show ring because she's too roan? Should they not trial a bigger dog because he doesnt fit some standard that some show person came up with? I'm sure my opinion will spark all sorts of emotion among the Brit folks, but Brits were bred to be hunting dogs, not prance around some ring looking pretty. Btw. I'm almost positive they have DNA on that Brit several generations back.

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:37 am

JetJockey,
Breed standard is not just for the show ring, it qualifies the animal to be a part of a certain breed, here lies the problem with your thinking, if the dog does not qualify to meeting breed standard, how can the dog represent a certain dog breed. The dog becomes his own breed entity. If certain dogs do not meet breed standard should they be allowed to participate as representing that dog breed, in any event or competition naming the breed. A dog who is too big or too small and falls outside of the breed standard, actually does not represent that dog breed. Long ago breeders and money became more important than breed standards here in the USA, so unless they use DNA testing to assure a dogs pedigree, overly large or overly small dogs will continue to participate. I am a big advocate of DNA testing and breed standards.
RGD/Dave

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:23 am

So what happens when a dog is DNA'd 5 or 6 generations back and a litter is thrown that has pups outside the breed standard? Your saying that they no no longer represent that "breed"? Thats pretty much the most stupid thing I have ever heard of. My brother is the only person in my family with red hair, should he not represent our family because nobody else has red hair in my family? Should we cull a dog because its too big or small, even though the parents are within the breed standard, and the dog is DNA'd to prove it is a certain breed? My pup is DNA'd 4 or 5 generations back, yet she BARELY makes the breed standard, and she would never win in a show ring. Her bitch is 35 lbs and her sire is pushing 40, both within the breed standard. Yet they threw females who BARELY break 30 lbs soaking wet! Im not sure she would even brake 30 if she wasn't roaded and had lots of muscle on her. I understand trying to get a dog within a "standard" what happens when that standard becomes more important then the hunting instinct the breed was originally ment for? I'll tell you what happens, you get what has happened to Cockers, Weims, Goldens, and on down the line. Do you think 100 years ago in Brittany France that they set the dogs up on a table to make sure they bred dogs that were within a standard? Nope! They bred dogs to get the best hunting animals they could. Thats why they mixed setters with spaniels to get brittanys. Breed standard is something the AKC made up, not the original intent of the breed. Im all for trying to keep dogs within a generally accepted "standard", but not at the expense of losing the original intent of the breed. Im 100% aware that in the past people did breed brits with ES, and EP's. Luckily DNA will fix that. But to blast a dog who is DNA'd and has several years of DNA'd dogs in its history is rediculous. DNA every brittany walking today back far enough and you will find EP, ES, and Spaniel.. Where do you draw the line? Besides, like I said before, that picture is deceiving. Heres a picture of 2 dogs who are nearly the exact same size lined up against my tiny brit, and an average sized brit. People shouldn't judge based on a single picture.

bb560m · Post by **bb560m** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:37 am

jetjockey wrote:So what happens when a dog is DNA'd 5 or 6 generations back and a litter is thrown that has pups outside the breed standard?

They're probably breeding to a dog with similar characteristics. If they're producing too small, breed to something bigger, etc.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:01 am

this forum is like taking college course for free,i think even

better.

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:10 am

The females from the litter of pups mine came from all averaged just over 30 lbs. HOWEVER, one of the females most likely turned out over 40. Nice in theory, but it happens. I plan on breeding my small pup to the exact same line as the brittany above. I want to get pups that are a little bigger then mine, with a little less roan and the same long legs and hunting instincts. What happens if some of the pups are smaller then her, and bigger then the sire? Should I cull them at 15 months old if they fall outside the breed standard even though they might be the best hunting dogs? Im breeding for hunting ability first, and size second. If they fall outside some AKC breed standard that some people sitting at a table came up with a long time ago, then tough chit! The last thing I EVER want to see is the brittany turned into Springers, EP's, Weims, Goldens, etc. Its sad when you can look at a Springer and EP and tell if they are a show or field bred dogs. As long as you breed within the breed, who cares? I had a guy tell me my brittany wasn't a true brittany because she ran too big. He said he switched to Springers for pheasants because they were much more like what a brittany was supposed to be, close hunting bird dogs. He also told me you couldn't hunt behind an All Age dog because they ran too big. He said brittanys were bred to be foot hunting dogs, not big running dogs like EP's, and Setters. I just kept my mouth shut, and I probably should have kept my mouth shut on this issue as well. But our group of hunters then proceded to kill more pheasants over my brit then his group did over his three springers combined. And my pup didn't get a break!

I plan on breeding to try and get hard charging big running brits capable of running AA, foot hunting, and being great house pets. If they fall outside some breed standard, I don't care, breeds evolve! You don't hear anyone complaining about the beautiful 12 oclock tail on pointers and setters do you? Go look at an old double gun book old hunting magazine. How many 12 oclock tails do you see on EP's and ES's? Do you really think that came from inside the breed?

rkappes · Post by **rkappes** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:21 pm

jetjockey wrote: I understand trying to get a dog within a "standard" what happens when that standard becomes more important then the hunting instinct the breed was originally ment for? I'll tell you what happens, you get what has happened to Cockers, Weims, Goldens, and on down the line.

I would think a person can breed a dog and have a dog within standard and not lose any hunting ability/desire/instinct. I agree just because a dog is slightly large or small doesn't necessarily mean that something else is in the wood pile, people shouldn't always jump to conclusions. I also agree that if a dog is not within standards that its not the best representation of the breed, at least confirmation wise. Any who, I guess I lean more towards standards then away.

jetjockey - Like stated above, great looking dog in your avataar!

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:56 am

I have an old buddy who used to tell me " i don't care if the dog is pink or green and only has three legs. As long as it finds the most birds"

Redfishkilla · Post by **Redfishkilla** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:06 am

"Im breeding for hunting ability first, and size second."

I think breeders should always breed for health first. Even if a dog won big time trials and excelled in the field it should still have to pass hip and other genetic test like eyes and such. A trial winner whose hips fell apart at age 5 should not be a breeding dog, IMHO. A deaf dog could go win trials but shouldn't be able to pass on its deafness gene. You don't have to breed to the exact standard but the dogs used to breed should be healthy first, then hunters. I also believe part of what makes a dog a good hunter is being well put together. In short, trials and ability should take a back seat to health.