Gun Dog Forum

Isn't it the same thing as Stay? Could I use stay instead? Do you use whoa and stay? Should stay be used as a general around the house command and whoa be used around training/birds? I'm just curious because my dog already knows stay and thought it would be silly to use a different command that seemingly accomplishes the same thing. Just don't want to add any more confusion. Like I said, probably a stupid question. Thanks.

I've actually wondered the same thing.

Seems as though "woah" tells the dog to hold back, or take it easy. Stay, on the other hand, is a rigid "don't move" command. I'm sure someone else will have a better answer but that's my understanding of it.

Dog's speak English. It's all in what you train as a response to a command. It could be "Whoa", "Stop", or "TweetleDee".

Once you've been around a while, you'll notice all sorts of things. Like someone saying "Shoo, shoo, shoo" quietly when they're flushing. It's nothing in the world but a quiet "Whoa" command.

Just me, but I think we'd all be better off if we were training for the situation to tell the dog to whoa rather than a verbal command.

Here is my take such as it is.

For me stay means, stay in the truck, don't come out the door etc.

Whoa: Is for standing still not advancing till you are released. It usually is used to stop a dog dead in its tracks even when at full speed run. It is used to reinforce the natural point of a dog when on point. Whoa, good boy you are not moving that is good.

Whoa is taught in a number of manners.
1) Heal and whoa drills
2) On a barrel or training table.
3) With a check cord to the ground.
4) Birds flushing as a que to whoa.
5) Whoa does not have to be a verbal command, it does not need to be a person that ques the whoa. It is the bird and the fact it may leave if I dang move. It is another dog on point.
6) Of course there is the ecollar, slip collars, c collars etc used to enforce the command.

Does this help?
RKick

I use "whoa" for exercises field (bird) related
I use "wait" (stay) as a general obedience commands (sit/stay, down/stay, stand stay) but stay in that place
So the same but different areas of training. My hand signal is actually the same for both come to think about it.
I use "place" to tell them and go find a place to lay down and relax (a place of their choice)

So whoa is more like STOP.

Right now if he's moving and I give the stay command he keeps moving. If he's already standing still and I give the stay command he'll stay put until I release him. It seems if I need him to stop on a dime then I should either teach him that stay also means STOP wherever you are OR teach him the whoa command separately.

Personally: I would keep them separate.

You might look into a couple videos online and perhaps pick up training video set. hickox, Smith, Perfect start etc.
If you see the command in use I think it will click for you.

I see Whoa as a working command and stay as a social command.

If that makes sense. SOunded better in my head than i writing.
Rick

It is not a stupid question at all. I prefer to just use one command....I am from the old school and use whoa. If the dog is running and I command whoa, he is to stop and stand still. If he is standing still and I command whoa, he is to stand until released. As Greg said, it really doesn't matter what word you use to get the same results but this has served me well over the years.

Charlie

As understood my most Americans, whoa means stop and stand still. In other languages it would probably be something we americans would not understand. You can use any word you want to teach a dog to stop and stand still. Let's say you used run. The dog will come to know what it means to you but the ordinary American, no matter how well educated won't have a clue. Different commands are used because we understand the meaning and pass that to the dog. It's so we understand what we are saying, not the dog!

There are several different verbal "whoas".

There is the sharp, stern forceful, WHOA!!" which means stop instantly and stand still even if you are running full speed. That is often the very same whoa that you might use when the dog dives in and roots a bird out, often in sync with a high hard one from the electric collar.

There is the crisp "WHUUUP" that you send out to the dog as a reminder when you see it slam on point out about a hundred yards.

Then there is the soft, almost gentle "whhuuuup" (which is half warning and half praise) that you might say as you start to walk in to flush. It is more of a " Just hang in there boy... You're doing fine...I'm here and I got this one now...."

As has been mentioned, dogs key in on How the command is deliverd much more than the word or words themselves.

There are lots of non-verbal whoas. Most of them have been mentioned. The most important of these whoas is the scent of a gamebird.

Then there is the sight of a dog pointing, a bird in flight, the upraise hand with palm out, and for the field trial dog...a bunch of horses standing around and a handler on the ground.

They all need to mean "Stop and stand...until I get there." For the steady dog, they need to mean the same thing but..."until I release you."

RayG

I use "Where the heck do you think you are going!?" It elicits the required response.

Sharon wrote:I use "Where the heck do you think you are going!?" It elicits the required response.

Have you ever got an answer?

Whoa means stand stay. Sit means sit, until released. Stay isn't really used anymore other then a crutch to get to where sit means sit or down means down until told otherwise IMO. Whoa is just the traditional word bird dog people use for stand stay. One good reason to use it rather then another word is because it carries well.

RayGubernat wrote:There are several different verbal "whoas".

There is the sharp, stern forceful, WHOA!!" which means stop instantly and stand still even if you are running full speed. That is often the very same whoa that you might use when the dog dives in and roots a bird out, often in sync with a high hard one from the electric collar.

There is the crisp "WHUUUP" that you send out to the dog as a reminder when you see it slam on point out about a hundred yards.

Then there is the soft, almost gentle "whhuuuup" (which is half warning and half praise) that you might say as you start to walk in to flush. It is more of a " Just hang in there boy... You're doing fine...I'm here and I got this one now...."

As has been mentioned, dogs key in on How the command is deliverd much more than the word or words themselves.

There are lots of non-verbal whoas. Most of them have been mentioned. The most important of these whoas is the scent of a gamebird.

Then there is the sight of a dog pointing, a bird in flight, the upraise hand with palm out, and for the field trial dog...a bunch of horses standing around and a handler on the ground.

They all need to mean "Stop and stand...until I get there." For the steady dog, they need to mean the same thing but..."until I release you."

RayG

well put

I didn't read all of the posts but whoa would be a command that you want to always enforce. If you saw whoa they are not to move until released. Using stay means to stay in and after you peace its not enforced. The dog can lay down, jump in the back seat, etc. Whoa you want to be able to say, go put of sight, come back and have the dog still standing.

mister2 wrote:Isn't it the same thing as Stay? Could I use stay instead? Do you use whoa and stay? Should stay be used as a general around the house command and whoa be used around training/birds? I'm just curious because my dog already knows stay and thought it would be silly to use a different command that seemingly accomplishes the same thing. Just don't want to add any more confusion. Like I said, probably a stupid question. Thanks.

Are you training a pointing dog? Its been my understanding that the WHOA command is used to develop staunch pointing and steadiness (steady to wing, shot, fall). So, the word "whoa" means whoa. The scent of the bird means "whoa". The flush means "whoa". Raising your gun means "whoa" and the gun shot means "whoa" and the fall of the bird means "whoa". The only command in that sequence that doesn't mean "whoa" is your release command to the dog, telling him to retrieve a dead bird.

If your not training a pointer, then it probably doesn't matter. But "whoa" for a pointer means more than "stay".