Gun Dog Forum

When a VDD registered dog is imported from Germany (GWP in this case) does the that designation indicate any hunt type testing like the Deutsch Drathaar registration groups in the US do?

A VDD registered dog is a Drahthaar and the registry is the same. Any testing done in Germany is the same as VDD-GNA (group North America). Minus the Hegewald which is a test held in Germany.
In other words you should find scores for VJP-HZP and VGP..among other things.

UT

Perfect! Thank you.

Possum,

Are you planning to run your new pup in JGHV (German) testing? I see that you are in Wisconsin. We usually have 2 VJPs in Wisconsin every spring. There is also 1 VJP in Minnesota every year. And then there is usually 1 HZP in Wisconsin and 2 HZPs in Minnesota each fall where you can enter your pup. Let me know if you are interested and I'd be happy to direct you to a test to watch and/or to enter your new pup.

Is it possible to run a German Wirehaired Pointer in those tests though? Even though the Sire is a VDD Import from Germany the Dam is a GWP.

I have to admit I find the whole GWP vs. DD thing a little silly and over the top but it could be I'm just not understanding it properly.

the_possum wrote:Is it possible to run a German Wirehaired Pointer in those tests though? Even though the Sire is a VDD Import from Germany the Dam is a GWP.

I have to admit I find the whole GWP vs. DD thing a little silly and over the top but it could be I'm just not understanding it properly.

I have a GWP.

As I'm sure you have seen on the VDD-GNA website, VDD owners will tell you that VDD and GWP are "distinctly separate" breeds due to the different breeding standards. I guess I can buy that - it does make sense to me. But, "genetically", yes the they are the same. The VDD breeding and testing standards are more strict that GWP Club of America, as I understand it. Either way, I think both a very cool dogs and I might look into getting a VDD some day. I was stationed in Germany in the army some years ago, and it drives me crazy the way we Americans pronounce "Draath Hauer".... Germans don't mix the T and the H into a THHH sound. So its two separate words: Draat (meaning wiry) and Haar (hair).... And don't forget to roll your Rrrrrrrrr's.... :roll: Crazy Germans....

Is it possible to run a German Wirehaired Pointer in those tests though? Even though the Sire is a VDD Import from Germany the Dam is a GWP.

Unfortunately, no, you will not be able to run a GWP/DD pup in a JGHV test. I'm sorry that I misunderstood your original post. I thought you were importing a DD from Germany.

One of the really nice things about the German system is information and consistency. We would see any dog bred without German tests/breed show ratings/etc. as a big hole in the data. Every single dog in a DD's pedigree has passed at least 2 tests (the VJP and HZP) in order to get certified for breeding. Most have a third test score (the VGP: the most challenging versatile dog test in the world). Every single dog in the pedigree has also had its hips x-rayed and been evaluated in a conformation show.

With GWPs, there may or may not be a performance test score for each dog in the pedigree. The performance test may or may not include versatile work. They may or may not have had their hips x-rayed. And there may or may not be any conformation titles for any of the dogs. So much variance in performance/conformation/temperament expectation is bound to result in the dogs looking/acting different over time. And its more obvious in some dogs than others.

Personally, I don't really consider DDs and GWPs to be completely different breeds. Just like I don't personally consider Deutsch Langhaars to be a completely separate breed than German Longhaired Pointers. But I do think that they are two very distinct lines. Many folks have different expectations for a DD (positive or negative) than they would a GWP so I do think the name designation is very important.

Good luck with the new pup! Definitely check out some NAVHDA testing in your area as he/she will definitely be able to enter those tests. We have a very active NAVHDA chapter near Wausau, WI. And there are also pretty active chapters across the border in MN (St. Croix and Minnesota chapters).

AG74 wrote:

the_possum wrote:Is it possible to run a German Wirehaired Pointer in those tests though? Even though the Sire is a VDD Import from Germany the Dam is a GWP.

I have to admit I find the whole GWP vs. DD thing a little silly and over the top but it could be I'm just not understanding it properly.

I have a GWP.

As I'm sure you have seen on the VDD-GNA website, VDD owners will tell you that VDD and GWP are "distinctly separate" breeds due to the different breeding standards. I guess I can buy that - it does make sense to me. But, "genetically", yes the they are the same. ...

I would have to argue that point to some degree. Have you ever seen a 40 lb nearly solid white DD? I haven't. I think we all know where that came from :roll: So genetically they can be very different depending on the unregulated AKC breeding practices.

the unregulated AKC breeding practices.

Akc doesn't regulate breeding practises. The breeders do that in our country. That means you and I.

Ezzy

[quote]I would have to argue that point to some degree. Have you ever seen a 40 lb nearly solid white DD? I haven't. I think we all know where that came from So genetically they can be very different depending on the unregulated AKC breeding practices.


YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ezzy333 wrote:

the unregulated AKC breeding practices.

Akc doesn't regulate breeding practises. The breeders do that in our country. That means you and I.

Ezzy

Or not...

Georgia Boy wrote:

AG74 wrote:

the_possum wrote:Is it possible to run a German Wirehaired Pointer in those tests though? Even though the Sire is a VDD Import from Germany the Dam is a GWP.

I have to admit I find the whole GWP vs. DD thing a little silly and over the top but it could be I'm just not understanding it properly.

I have a GWP.

As I'm sure you have seen on the VDD-GNA website, VDD owners will tell you that VDD and GWP are "distinctly separate" breeds due to the different breeding standards. I guess I can buy that - it does make sense to me. But, "genetically", yes the they are the same. ...

I would have to argue that point to some degree. Have you ever seen a 40 lb nearly solid white DD? I haven't. I think we all know where that came from :roll: So genetically they can be very different depending on the unregulated AKC breeding practices.

OK, since you won't come right out and say what you truly mean, I'll say it for you: the dog in my avatar, my dog, is obviously the result of improper, unregulated breeding practices, since he is white... there HAS to be some EP in there SOMEWEHRE.... So, Georgia Boy, how FAR back in the family do you think this mysterious, lurking, hidden EP must have been in my dog's blood line to give him that look?????? One, two, three generations???????

Below is the AKC Breed Standard for the GWP:

Color
The coat is liver and white, usually either liver and white spotted, liver roan, liver and white spotted with ticking and roaning or solid liver. The head is liver, sometimes with a white blaze. The ears are liver. Any black in the coat is to be severely penalized.

huh, that description fits my dog pretty well. You can't see the white blaze on his forehead, but its there....

I'm glad you are an expert at identifying the breed of a dog from a 100x100 pixel digital photo on the internet.

I'm not one of those people who gets hung up on pedigrees, but my dog happens to have a pedigree to certify that he is a pure bred GWP. You can believe that or not, doesn't really matter to me. What does matter to me is that my dog is a hunting machine and a great pet.

So, think what you will, but next time you want to SAY something on an open forum on the internet to someone across the country, just come out and say it. Don't beat around the bush and use the little eye roll icon. :roll:

By the way, he is 55 lbs, not 40 lb...

All I did was make one point to suggest that regardless of what some people might say there can be a difference between the two breeds. I am not disputing that your dog is a GWP but I could breed a Chihuahua with a Russian Wolfhound and get papers for the litter saying they were AKC registered Grey hounds if I wanted. It is obvious that you dont know me because I dont beat around the bush and I will continue to use the icons how I please :roll: , thats what they are there for.

Georgia Boy wrote:All I did was make one point to suggest that regardless of what some people might say there can be a difference between the two breeds. I am not disputing that your dog is a GWP but I could breed a Chihuahua with a Russian Wolfhound and get papers for the litter saying they were AKC registered Grey hounds if I wanted. It is obvious that you dont know me because I dont beat around the bush and I will continue to use the icons how I please :roll: , thats what they are there for.

Ha, Ha!! That's more like it! Just might be some hope for you yet!!! Good job! Say what you mean!!!!