Gun Dog Forum

I am curious as to whether "head crank" is hereditary. If one of the parents does it, and the other does not, will the puppies have a genetic tendency to do it, or is it completely random?

I believe it is hereditary. Whether a pup inherits it would be as random as inheriting any other trait. I have a friend who has a dog that head cranks and neither parent does it but the mother comes from a line that has thrown head crank so it was in there somewhere.

Pardon my stupidity, but you peaked my curiosity...
Head crank?
anyone have visual examples of one versus none?

download/file.php?id=5721

Birdman250 had some killer pups. Here is a pic of what a head crank looks like.

I believe it is hereditary as well, there is an old book on hunting dog genetics written by a danish scientist who documented a bunch of traits by cross breeding dogs for several generations and his conclusions were very interesting and one of those was indeed head carriage is hereditary....I beleive Honky Tonk dogs are known for there head cranking and perhaps Fiddler dogs too, the dog will point with his head looking up to the sky as if watching a plane fly overhead in extreme head cranking.

Sounds like chances are good that a pup could inherit it if one of the parents does it (the extreme crank). They are probably just as good that they wouldn't if the other parent doesn't. Sounds like a role of the dice. Obviously, if both parents did it, the chances would be much greater.

ultracarry wrote:download/file.php?id=5721

Birdman250 had some killer pups. Here is a pic of what a head crank looks like.

Thanks, and interesting.

SHNOOL wrote:Pardon my stupidity, but you peaked my curiosity... Head crank? anyone have visual examples of one versus none?

A little...she cranks higher the longer she stands...granddaughter of HTA


Setter crank


Normal point with no crank...

I believe everything is hereitary...

goggle honky tonk attitude and select "images" - you will see it...here he is

I know of some very famous trainers who go to some kind of extreme measures to train this into a pup. I would guess they would not say hereditary.

I am sure you could perhaps train it in to some extent,but I have seen some little pups with it naturally.

bigdaddy wrote:I know of some very famous trainers who go to some kind of extreme measures to train this into a pup. I would guess they would not say hereditary.

Interesting....and there are trainers who write that "what God gave 'em, we should leave alone."

It's an aspect of style - and I would guess much more frequently trained by those in the trial circuit than those who hunt exclusively?

Those are some fine looking critters for sure...keep those pics coming!

Hopefully it doesn't start popping up in GSPs. I can't stand it. Jmo.

So, does a dog that does this do it all the time, most of the time, some of the time, or rarely. Or, is does it completely depend on the dog. Also, do most people view it as a positive or negative?

shaneroyce wrote:So, does a dog that does this do it all the time, most of the time, some of the time, or rarely...

I think that a dog that genetically has it in them will do it to some extent...all the time. It does depend on many factors, how they hit the find, what the scent cone is like, how long they stand there, distractions etc.

I view this as unwanted unless the wind is coming over some kind of obstruction which makes this position a neccessity.

Bill T.

Id dare to wager on that side of the pond folks might find alot about our American Pointers that they deem unwanted.

Gordon head crank

The "EXTREME"headcrank was and is a fad. It was the thing to have for a few years. They even had a invitational trial for only the offspring of Honky Tonk dogs. That Fad died off quickly and you will find that not many if any of the top pros today have any HTA in their string, if it is, it's pretty far back.

Little head crank comes from alot further back than HTA, A rambling rebel would throw his head up . Just the age of internet pictures now.....

birddog1968 wrote:Little head crank comes from alot further back than HTA, A rambling rebel would throw his head up . Just the age of internet pictures now.....

Your correct, and alot of these dog pics posted above are an example of a nice stylish head carraige. But the EXTREME came and died with HTA.

Wyndancer wrote:Gordon head crank

Now that is a head crank and a gorgeous picture.

come on now matt!!!

Came and went???

yess it is hereditary!!

Dan, That's a nice photo.

ST8 UPPOINTERS wrote:

ACE_070711.jpg

Came and went???

Thank goodness, that's ugly. The gordon looks good though.

Sct I won't forget that! Your opinion on my dogs is not what this thread is about.. so do yourself a favor and keep it to yourself.

In the mid 1980's Chuck Stretz the horseback shooting dog handler was running and winning alot of NBHA and ABHA trials in Missouri with a dog called Purpleline Jack who head cranked. Candy's Purple Ranger a grandson of Jack's won the NBHA National Amateur championship in the early 1990's and was an extreme head cranker.

ST8 UPPOINTERS wrote: Sct I won't forget that! Your opinion on my dogs is not what this thread is about.. so do yourself a favor and keep it to yourself.

Sorry ST8, you're right, that was uncalled for. I wasn't using my head on that one.

Wyndancer very nice lookin' dog!

I don't mind a little head crank. I'd like to think its more hereditary. If so then the 'crank' is probably just the dogs way of showing intensity. I'm glad all dogs look a little bit different when pointing and have their own style.

My setter points with his head up like this everytime and he gets higher the longer he stands. He gets it from his grand daddy Berg's Brother Jack. I love it!

That's a fine looking setter there, Hoosier.

So is that head crank provided-by-nature, or was there "trainer assistance?"

birddog1968 wrote:Id dare to wager on that side of the pond folks might find alot about our American Pointers that they deem unwanted.

Maybe not so much as you might think. We don't go looking to breed for head crank nor for 12 o' clock tails , we tend to like a fairly level backline , neckline and tail line when a dog points but we accept any solid point that produces a bird. I had a brittany bitch half American, half French bred . She sometimes pointed head crank fashion and sometimes what we think of as "setter" fashion , half crouched. I never knew what to expect. I ran her in a grouse trial among some waist high ,young firs. Through the firs I could just see her drawing up into a nice head crank style of point. I claimed the point by raising my arm and the judges burst out laughing. They could see what I could not ..... she was having a poo ! The judges thought I was just having a bit of a joke ..... but I knew differently !

Main differences , if I understand what I read on this forum correctly, between our trial dogs and yours is that we expect our dogs to hunt the ground in a definite pattern. You folk seem to want your dogs to run towards objectives ??? Next difference is that our dogs must not be sticky on point. They must move forward on command to produce what they have pointed. If a trial handler in Britain went in front of his pointing dog he'd be told to move back or be eliminated. The dogs are expected to perform a controlled flush on command.

Bill T.

Azdoggin

That head crank is all natural. I need to get a updated picture those are old pictures. Now that he is older he has his head high and the tail is 12:00 and straight as a arrow. I've got 2 dogs from Bergs and they are as nice if not nicer than anything I've ever had and I've had a few.

hoosier wrote:Azdoggin

That head crank is all natural. I need to get a updated picture those are old pictures. Now that he is older he has his head high and the tail is 12:00 and straight as a arrow. I've got 2 dogs from Bergs and they are as nice if not nicer than anything I've ever had and I've had a few.

Wow - I have kept my eye on the Berg Bros dogs as best I can, but I don't know if I've seen a classier setter...very nice. Congratulations.