Most Famous EP Bloodlines Still Readily Available?

kylenicholas02 · Post by **kylenicholas02** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:55 pm

My experience with Rockacre dogs hasnt been prime to say the least. They seem to have a higher frequency of having "screws" loose. Everyone that I have been around has a sweet personality but, acts like an idiot in the field. Maybe its my training/trialing style but they seem different. I'm sticking to my Miller dogs.. then again I have some nice ones.

cgbirddogs · Post by **cgbirddogs** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:46 pm

There is a linebred red water rex litter on the ground in utah through a champion son of ch. Silver strike out of a grandaughter of silver strike. The sire is ch. Idaho's lucky strike. The dam is by his littermate ch. Idaho's clean sweep. The sire is producing stylish, banging wild bird dogs capable of winning. He, like his brother, is qualified for the national. Championship. Both the parents are out of elhew females (ben is out of a champion Damascus female and luci is out of a ch. elhew texas snakeeye female ). jarod moss bred the litter.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:58 pm

cgbirddogs wrote:There is a linebred red water rex litter on the ground in utah through a champion son of ch. Silver strike out of a grandaughter of silver strike. The sire is ch. Idaho's lucky strike. The dam is by his littermate ch. Idaho's clean sweep. The sire is producing stylish, banging wild bird dogs capable of winning. He, like his brother, is qualified for the national. Championship. Both the parents are out of elhew females (ben is out of a champion Damascus female and luci is out of a ch. elhew texas snakeeye female ). jarod moss bred the litter.

They were bred likely within 15" of the OP's home so pretty much rules 'em out as being any good if I understand what I'm reading here correctly!

glk7243 · Post by **glk7243** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:15 pm

Ben pups are purty nice.

Here are a couple pics of an 8 mo old pointing wild birds.

shaneroyce · Post by **shaneroyce** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:56 am

DGFavor wrote:
cgbirddogs wrote:There is a linebred red water rex litter on the ground in utah through a champion son of ch. Silver strike out of a grandaughter of silver strike. The sire is ch. Idaho's lucky strike. The dam is by his littermate ch. Idaho's clean sweep. The sire is producing stylish, banging wild bird dogs capable of winning. He, like his brother, is qualified for the national. Championship. Both the parents are out of elhew females (ben is out of a champion Damascus female and luci is out of a ch. elhew texas snakeeye female ). jarod moss bred the litter.
They were bred likely within 15" of the OP's home so pretty much rules 'em out as being any good if I understand what I'm reading here correctly!

I am VERY impressed with Ben and his pups. I have not seen him yet, but his reputation precedes him. I have chased wild birds over a couple of his pups one day. Needless to say, I liked them a lot!

My original post was not to suggest that there were no good dogs around my area, as I am aware there are. I was trying to find out what others thought were great, classic pointer lines that were still available to most people. This thread has been, and is, extremely interesting to read.

I have talked to Rich Heaton before about Ben, and would love to watch him work sometime. I'm sure that will happen sooner rather than later.

Keep the replies coming!

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:53 am

I know, just givin' grief!! I wouldn't look far from home for a good dog for your area.

Sheesh, while I'm throwing around advice, personally, for what you're interested in doing with your dogs, foot hunting the chukar/hun hills with one or two dogs, you'd be hard pressed to do better than going with something like this

:

Just tellin' ya' what works, there's a reason they're most popular critter out there (finds 'em, points 'em, goes down in them deep canyons, picks 'em up and brings 'em back up to ya' - just teach 'em to come and kennel) - and goes back to 'ol timey famous Beier's lines 3X to give ya' some names to throw around if that's important to ya'!!

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:00 am

shaneroyce · Post by **shaneroyce** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:00 am

DG...very nice looking dog! This is my 1st pointer pup, and I like him a lot. I have a buddy that always hunts shorthairs...I like them a lot too. I don't know that a guy could go wrong with either...most of the time! Where did you get your dog...is he one you bred? Also, when are you heading over my way? I'm still waiting to take you up on your offer to chase some chukars and huns...only a few weeks left. Maybe I could learn a few things! Thanks for the advice and info (both on this thread and the pm's).

Troy08er · Post by **Troy08er** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:25 am

In GSP that Beier's line is hard to beat. Straws still available from his offspring.

k2k · Post by **k2k** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:42 am

Doug, I met Rich's Kady pup at Sunnyside a couple of weeks ago. I fell completely in love with her! Fantastic dog!

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:35 am

DGFavor wrote: I know, just givin' grief!! I wouldn't look far from home for a good dog for your area.

Sheesh, while I'm throwing around advice, personally, for what you're interested in doing with your dogs, foot hunting the chukar/hun hills with one or two dogs, you'd be hard pressed to d
Just tellin' ya' what works, there's a reason they're most popular critter out there (finds 'em, points 'em, goes down in them deep canyons, picks 'em up and brings 'em back up to ya' - just teach 'em to come and kennel) - and goes back to 'ol timey famous Beier's lines 3X to give ya' some names to throw around if that's important to ya'!!

You are right i have never had one of my pointers do anything you describe. Also i never have had any of the setters or pointers from the grousewoods lines adapted to the high desert. Is that fact about the most popular also from the same book?

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:35 pm

gotpointers wrote:
DGFavor wrote: I know, just givin' grief!! I wouldn't look far from home for a good dog for your area.

Sheesh, while I'm throwing around advice, personally, for what you're interested in doing with your dogs, foot hunting the chukar/hun hills with one or two dogs, you'd be hard pressed to d
Just tellin' ya' what works, there's a reason they're most popular critter out there (finds 'em, points 'em, goes down in them deep canyons, picks 'em up and brings 'em back up to ya' - just teach 'em to come and kennel) - and goes back to 'ol timey famous Beier's lines 3X to give ya' some names to throw around if that's important to ya'!!
You are right i have never had one of my pointers do anything you describe. Also i never have had any of the setters or pointers from the grousewoods lines adapted to the high desert. Is that fact about the most popular also from the same book?

I'm just following GDF rules that every thread should have GSP's referenced in it somewhere - rules is rules.

kylenicholas02 · Post by **kylenicholas02** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:01 pm

DGFavor wrote:
gotpointers wrote:
DGFavor wrote: I know, just givin' grief!! I wouldn't look far from home for a good dog for your area.

Sheesh, while I'm throwing around advice, personally, for what you're interested in doing with your dogs, foot hunting the chukar/hun hills with one or two dogs, you'd be hard pressed to d
Just tellin' ya' what works, there's a reason they're most popular critter out there (finds 'em, points 'em, goes down in them deep canyons, picks 'em up and brings 'em back up to ya' - just teach 'em to come and kennel) - and goes back to 'ol timey famous Beier's lines 3X to give ya' some names to throw around if that's important to ya'!!
You are right i have never had one of my pointers do anything you describe. Also i never have had any of the setters or pointers from the grousewoods lines adapted to the high desert. Is that fact about the most popular also from the same book?
I'm just following GDF rules that every thread should have GSP's referenced in it somewhere - rules is rules.

Isn't it also listed that you are no longer able to openingly support anything but a shorthair on GDF?

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:45 pm

DG it isn't so much the references to GSP's that Pointer folks mind so much but the fact that you set a bad precedent for allowing the Brittany people to chime in as well.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:37 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:DG it isn't so much the references to GSP's that Pointer folks mind so much but the fact that you set a bad precedent for allowing the Brittany people to chime in as well.

That's awesome! In good fun!

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:18 pm

We should all be one big happy family. the pointers, GSP's, and the setters. Our dogs all share the same bloodlines, so we should follow suit and be one big happy family. Everyone knows that every family needs a couple of orange and white hamsters. Only the orange and white ones will do. Every once in a while for a change up we will except a liver and white one.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:01 am

One question...What's with all this Honky Tonk Attitude bashing? He is THE most influential son of Fiddlin Rocky Boy and honestly I dout that most would even be familiar with FRB if it wasn't for HTA. It's too bad that foot trialing dogs don't get into the HOF or he would be at the top of the list. That dog throws alot of nose and alot of style into his pups. He was bred to ALOT of straight broods for the puppy market. I know I have seen some quirky dogs off of him but I have also seen some high caliber dogs off of him as well. We should remember that he is only half of the breeding and the dam/breeder should be held accountable as well. Also, almost every litter of pups have dogs that don't meet certain expectations. That dog and his get has produced hundred's of foot trialing Champions and even a NAVHDA Versatile Champion. I think alot of folks are judging him on what they heard rather than what they have acually seen.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:17 am

I would like to add to my above rant that HTA crosses tremendously with Crow's Little Joe dogs and Elhew dogs. I personaly would not line breed it. Thanks for listening

.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:34 am

Theres more than one good son of FRB, Turbo, CH high view buddy, come to mind....... I'm sure there are more.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:46 am

birddog1968 wrote:Theres more than one good son of FRB,

I never said there wasn't and I never said HTA was the best. I said "influential".

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:48 pm

birddog1968 wrote:Theres more than one good son of FRB, Turbo, CH high view buddy, come to mind....... I'm sure there are more.

High View Tribute, High View Nickel, Santo (female, not a champion but a proven producer)

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:47 pm

As Ron said above the sire is only half the breeding. I have been able to keep pups from three of my females, all out of the same stud Lil Less Snow. just to check the results of my breeding. Results were mild, medium and extra hot. Phantoms Southern Sky has produced walking class pups even when Dan Hendrickson owned her. Wizards little Angel pups better saddle up the horse. Phantoms Sundancer right in the middle. Strengths and weakeness of individual dogs in certian areas are what needs to be factored in as far as pairing up. But then again people dont all want the same final product. As far as females that produce what i prefer Whippoorwill Girl is one.

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:24 pm

I don't have any HTA but do have a fine young one from some of the FRB. I have seen several dogs out here that are HTA. I am not that impressed, but before you go beating me up, I will say that I have not seen a pedigree. Therefore, when you see a pointer and ask what it's out of and you here HTA, what you see as a final product may not be the result of HTA. Depending on how far back that breeding is and what it was bred to. I think that has been proven with the Elhew line in many cases.

I can look at a few of the HTA dogs and see it. There is a way that most of them hold there heads. I would prefer not to compare them to a GSP but some could very well pass as one if the tail was shortened a little, but heck there are alot of pointers that could pass as GSP with a shorter tail. Not quite sure why that is??

Ray Gubernat, I believe said it best, when he told me he didn't care if it was pink and purple with pokadots as long as it did what he wanted and could find a bird. I think I will reside in that boat. Send me a dog that can flat get it done in the field and find birds. I can manage from their. Even if it was bred to bubba the coonhound 80 years ago and can fetch me a deer in the off season.

Joe

Texasdogtrainer · Post by **Texasdogtrainer** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:38 pm

Honky Tonk Attitude popularity rose due to the split in relationship between Scott Miller and Gary Keel. If it wasn't for this we would have been talking about High View Tribute, High View Nickle, Turbo or High View Jake. The three dogs that was sold becuase they where not like was Honky Tonk Attitude, High View Buddy and Nate's Hot Pepper, both are quality and multiple Champions but they were different than the dogs that was kept by Gary. Stan and Scott did an excellent job marketing HTA, it equals Bob Whele marketing ability. I purchased pups out of Bull when his stud fee was 250 and the only Championship he won at that time was the Western Regional. Bull was not nearly the dog Fiddlin Rocky Boy was but Bull was exceptional in his own right. I favor dogs that Keel kept, in fact I am heading to look at a young dog out of Ch. High View Hank, Hank is a son of High View Jake which is out of Rocky Boy and Ch. Snapbutton Kay. Another nice rocky boy son was Pinehill Rocky Hunter and I belive he had a sister that also won a Ch. I watch Bull run, Turbo and his son Ch. Winning Combination. Had a daughter out of Ch. High View Buddy and judged and named his son Uncensored champion in the region 8 walking championship. Take nothing away from Bull and his accomplishments, nice dog I even feed his littermate, Bodacious and bred him once and it produced a really nice winner for me ( Poker Straight Pride). I studded out a dog name Poker Straight Woody, by High View Nickle and also bred his littermate Poker Straight Nicki both was sired by Nickle out of a littermate to Turbo, double bred Rocky Boy. I still have that blood here in my kennel. That line produced a really nice dog I owned name Poker Straight Jackpot, I am currently developing his son Poker Straight Texas Class, super fancy, head full of sense, strong nose and plenty of gas in the tank.

sckwest1 · Post by **sckwest1** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:36 am

I think many cases are as jc buttry mentioned that people misrepresent the bloodline. Many people call a dog HTA when it may be only 1/4 HTA meaning one of his gr parents may have been HTA yet they will call him an HTA dog. Jc Buttry is a perfect example as I have seen him mention his dog as a fiddler rocky boy cross. When I look at Kona's pedigree it appears to me that she is only 1/8th FRB please correct me if I'm mistaken. Also as you mentioned you see this all the time with the elhew dogs. Goodluck, SCK

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:04 am

sckwest1 wrote:I think many cases are as jc buttry mentioned that people misrepresent the bloodline. Many people call a dog HTA when it may be only 1/4 HTA meaning one of his gr parents may have been HTA yet they will call him an HTA dog. Jc Buttry is a perfect example as I have seen him mention his dog as a fiddler rocky boy cross. When I look at Kona's pedigree it appears to me that she is only 1/8th FRB please correct me if I'm mistaken. Also as you mentioned you see this all the time with the elhew dogs. Goodluck, SCK

That's why i only listed direct off spring of the greats mentioned that i own in the original post. I have two go boy grandsons here but i didn't mention them. Imo they really don't fall under the original question.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:07 pm

sckwest1 wrote:I think many cases are as jc buttry mentioned that people misrepresent the bloodline. Many people call a dog HTA when it may be only 1/4 HTA meaning one of his gr parents may have been HTA yet they will call him an HTA dog. Jc Buttry is a perfect example as I have seen him mention his dog as a fiddler rocky boy cross. When I look at Kona's pedigree it appears to me that she is only 1/8th FRB please correct me if I'm mistaken. Also as you mentioned you see this all the time with the elhew dogs. Goodluck, SCK

Seems to me with this type of outlook, that there are no true bloodlines anymore then. Just about every dog bred today is a combination of 2 if not more bloodlines from the past. I haven't seen any true bloodlines for quite some time. Even you yourself combine HTA with CLJ, Erins or other bloodlines with Miller in the case of using Stock as a stud. Texasdogtrainer combines Elhew and Fiddler or Fiddler and Miller or some semblance of the 3 at times. By looking at things this way it just seems that there are no pure bloodlines left and that every bloodline is watered down, mixed with or crossed over to another bloodline. Sometimes this helps to improve certain characteristics in some lines from what I have heard such as with Fiddler dogs. I have heard Fiddler dogs cross up great with Miller, Elhew and Go Boy dogs but as a stand alone bloodline they leave something to be desired. I hope to be able to test this theory soon with a double bred FRB pup from Prairiefirepointers in the near future.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:32 am

http://www.birddogfoundation.com/national_champions.htm

Miller dogs need no out crossing IMO. This list of national champions reflects it. The majority of the recent winners that are not miller prefix dogs have a healthy dose of miller. At The last national championship close to half the contenders were of miller descent. I have many straight miller dogs and i plan on keeping them that way regardless of sales or non sales.

Texasdogtrainer · Post by **Texasdogtrainer** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:38 pm

Ever line needs a dosage from other lines. The one thing to always remember that winning kennels bred multiple litters, have a program that is proven for the dogs that they bred(socializing, developing, training and feeding) and know things about the line that is shared within a tight circle. Most of all they have deep pockets to invest in birddogs. The rest of us have to dapple in this and that to find some success. The cool thing about it,it works for all. Champions are bred in all situations, philosophys and ideas. Champions are bred on purpose and by an accidental mating. This years National Champion proved this, is pedigree is not a who's who of all-age but i bet they are solid wild bird dogs. What I always say, put your dogs on the line and compete your breeding program. The one thing I can say about Ross, is that he put is $$$ where is mouth and put his program on the major circuit. Now we are saying heck, Ross has a good breeding and developing program. It not the line sometimes, it is what you do with the dang puppies.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:47 pm

Texasdogtrainer wrote:Ever line needs a dosage from other lines. The one thing to always remember that winning kennels bred multiple litters, have a program that is proven for the dogs that they bred(socializing, developing, training and feeding) and know things about the line that is shared within a tight circle. Most of all they have deep pockets to invest in birddogs. The rest of us have to dapple in this and that to find some success. The cool thing about it,it works for all. Champions are bred in all situations, philosophys and ideas. Champions are bred on purpose and by an accidental mating. This years National Champion proved this, is pedigree is not a who's who of all-age but i bet they are solid wild bird dogs. What I always say, put your dogs on the line and compete your breeding program. The one thing I can say about Ross, is that he put is $$$ where is mouth and put his program on the major circuit. Now we are saying heck, Ross has a good breeding and developing program. It not the line sometimes, it is what you do with the dang puppies.

I agree with you completely, i do need to have some dogs out there being third party judged. I attempted to give some away to trialers for evaluation but i had the feeling they were going to end up brood bitches which would be of no benifit to me. I do have a 6 month old male headed out to be ran in NAVHDA. He will come back home after. Hopefully he can head over to your place after for some more training and possibly a campaign. Since you brang up Jack my dog shares fathers with him and the dams are littermates. What would be the correct term to the relation.

Ralph Ford · Post by **Ralph Ford** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:14 pm

Since you brang up Jack my dog shares fathers with him and the dams are littermates. What would be the correct term to the relation.[/quote]

Both half-brothers, and cousins.

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:00 pm

sckwest1 wrote:I think many cases are as jc buttry mentioned that people misrepresent the bloodline. Many people call a dog HTA when it may be only 1/4 HTA meaning one of his gr parents may have been HTA yet they will call him an HTA dog. Jc Buttry is a perfect example as I have seen him mention his dog as a fiddler rocky boy cross. When I look at Kona's pedigree it appears to me that she is only 1/8th FRB please correct me if I'm mistaken. Also as you mentioned you see this all the time with the elhew dogs. Goodluck, SCK

You can call it what you want Scott, but when I look back in the pedigree FRB seems to be the name that appears more than any other. Yes my pup is 31 flavors but "bleep" if those 31 flavors aren't working. So, call her what you want or out of whatever you want but as long as she keeps doing what she is doing I will keep her.

To make you feel better I will just say she is out of pointers, that way you won't have a need to throw back at me because I stated my opinion about the HTA line. No matter how you feel I will take my pup out of pointer lines over any of the supposed HTA dogs I have seen any day of the week and twice on sunday.

I wish I knew which line to thank for our win yesterday in our last trial of the spring, so I guess I will thank Tommy's rebel son and Brodie's lil Ann for giving me my american fence jumping pointer pup to run. "bleep" if she didn't look good getting it done too.

Joe

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:25 pm

gotpointers wrote:Since you brang up Jack my dog shares fathers with him and the dams are littermates. What would be the correct term to the relation.

Ralph Ford wrote:Both half-brothers, and cousins.

I'd call it a Buttry.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:39 pm

jcbuttry8 wrote:
sckwest1 wrote:I think many cases are as jc buttry mentioned that people misrepresent the bloodline. Many people call a dog HTA when it may be only 1/4 HTA meaning one of his gr parents may have been HTA yet they will call him an HTA dog. Jc Buttry is a perfect example as I have seen him mention his dog as a fiddler rocky boy cross. When I look at Kona's pedigree it appears to me that she is only 1/8th FRB please correct me if I'm mistaken. Also as you mentioned you see this all the time with the elhew dogs. Goodluck, SCK
You can call it what you want Scott, but when I look back in the pedigree FRB seems to be the name that appears more than any other. Yes my pup is 31 flavors but "bleep" if those 31 flavors aren't working. So, call her what you want or out of whatever you want but as long as she keeps doing what she is doing I will keep her.

To make you feel better I will just say she is out of pointers, that way you won't have a need to throw back at me because I stated my opinion about the HTA line. No matter how you feel I will take my pup out of pointer lines over any of the supposed HTA dogs I have seen any day of the week and twice on sunday.

I wish I knew which line to thank for our win yesterday in our last trial of the spring, so I guess I will thank Tommy's rebel son and Brodie's lil Ann for giving me my american fence jumping pointer pup to run. "bleep" if she didn't look good getting it done too.

Joe

Before there is any misunderstanding here, it was an intentional breeding done so because of the traits that both the sire and dam possessed more than what they showed on paper. The pedigrees exhibited some like bloodlines that seemed to match up well but I am not an expert. It was not done based on titles or championships since I do not trial due to logistics and finances. Basically I like what the parents exhibited as wild bird dogs, training, biddability, etc. They turned out a nice litter of hunting dogs and a nice competitor in Joe's dog Kona. After this litter I tried to do the responsible thing when I had some behaviorial and hormonal issues come up with the dam after weaning and going into the next heat cycle and I had her spayed. Big mistake on my part but what is done is done. I still have both the stud and dam and neither dog will ever go anywhere, they will be with me till they die.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:07 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:
jcbuttry8 wrote:
sckwest1 wrote:I think many cases are as jc buttry mentioned that people misrepresent the bloodline. Many people call a dog HTA when it may be only 1/4 HTA meaning one of his gr parents may have been HTA yet they will call him an HTA dog. Jc Buttry is a perfect example as I have seen him mention his dog as a fiddler rocky boy cross. When I look at Kona's pedigree it appears to me that she is only 1/8th FRB please correct me if I'm mistaken. Also as you mentioned you see this all the time with the elhew dogs. Goodluck, SCK
You can call it what you want Scott, but when I look back in the pedigree FRB seems to be the name that appears more than any other. Yes my pup is 31 flavors but "bleep" if those 31 flavors aren't working. So, call her what you want or out of whatever you want but as long as she keeps doing what she is doing I will keep her.

To make you feel better I will just say she is out of pointers, that way you won't have a need to throw back at me because I stated my opinion about the HTA line. No matter how you feel I will take my pup out of pointer lines over any of the supposed HTA dogs I have seen any day of the week and twice on sunday.

I wish I knew which line to thank for our win yesterday in our last trial of the spring, so I guess I will thank Tommy's rebel son and Brodie's lil Ann for giving me my american fence jumping pointer pup to run. "bleep" if she didn't look good getting it done too.

Joe

Before there is any misunderstanding here, it was an intentional breeding done so because of the traits that both the sire and dam possessed more than what they showed on paper. The pedigrees exhibited some like bloodlines that seemed to match up well but I am not an expert. It was not done based on titles or championships since I do not trial due to logistics and finances. Basically I like what the parents exhibited as wild bird dogs, training, biddability, etc. They turned out a nice litter of hunting dogs and a nice competitor in Joe's dog Kona. After this litter I tried to do the responsible thing when I had some behaviorial and hormonal issues come up with the dam after weaning and going into the next heat cycle and I had her spayed. Big mistake on my part but what is done is done. I still have both the stud and dam and neither dog will ever go anywhere, they will be with me till they die.

Two thumbs up Tom

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:35 am

jcbuttry8 wrote:You can call it what you want Scott, but when I look back in the pedigree FRB seems to be the name that appears more than any other.

He nor anybody else called your dog anything but factually stated that your dog was 1/8 FRB. Fiddling Rocky Boy does'nt show up until the 5th generation...and that's fine. It makes no sense to be so touchy about it.

jcbuttry8 wrote: that way you won't have a need to throw back at me because I stated my opinion about the HTA line. No matter how you feel I will take my pup out of pointer lines over any of the supposed HTA dogs I have seen any day of the week and twice on sunday.

I respect your opinion on HTA dogs. You just have to judge by what you have seen...and you have. My opinion is different because I have seen, trained and competed with quite a few more than you have and I'm sure there are folks on here that have seen, trained and competed with alot more than I have.

I'll post a few pics of HTA bred dogs that may have changed your opinion.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:03 am

Ron R wrote:

I don't care if this dog is out of HTA or Limpwrists Rainbow Flower, Thats a hellava good looking hound. I'm a sucker for a half-mask.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:10 am

prairiefirepointers wrote:Thats a hellava good looking hound. I'm a sucker for a half-mask.

Thanks, she is home grown (bred, raised from puppyhood, and trained). I too am a sucker for half masked dogs

. Thanks again for the compliment, I enjoy looking at your dogs as well

.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:37 am

prairiefirepointers wrote:
Ron R wrote:

I don't care if this dog is out of HTA or Limpwrists Rainbow Flower, Thats a hellava good looking hound. I'm a sucker for a half-mask.

Here is one more pic of her taken by her judge during her first trial on her 3rd find.

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:59 am

sckwest1 wrote:I think many cases are as jc buttry mentioned that people misrepresent the bloodline. Many people call a dog HTA when it may be only 1/4 HTA meaning one of his gr parents may have been HTA yet they will call him an HTA dog. Jc Buttry is a perfect example as I have seen him mention his dog as a fiddler rocky boy cross. When I look at Kona's pedigree it appears to me that she is only 1/8th FRB please correct me if I'm mistaken. Also as you mentioned you see this all the time with the elhew dogs. Goodluck, SCK

Not quite sure how this works, Scott throws a Jab then runs, and you come bat clean up??? I never said my dog was line bred or even close. I said above that she comes from FRB lines. Not untrue, nor did I say that she was High bred with one line or another. I know what my dog has, just as you and Scott both know due to your dealings with tommyboy. I made a general comment not using names or calling anyone out. Can't say the same as above. Apparently, comments on HTA seem to be a problem. You are correct, the dogs that you have pictured seem to look different. I am sure there are plenty of great HTA dogs out there just as there are with every other line, and even some lines that have a wide majority of lines crossed.

You have nice dogs. I haven't seen them run nor do I plan to. I like what I have and will be following it up with another pup from FRB Lines. I like it and that is what I will stay with. Again, I have not seen anything with my own eyes yet that makes me interested in owning a high bred HTA pup, but then again, not many of you would have touched the pup I have because of the lack of CH's in the first 4 Gens.

Guess it is safe to say we all likes what we likes, and if you have it, enjoy it.

Joe

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:19 am

jcbuttry8 wrote:I don't have any HTA but do have a fine young one from some of the FRB. I have seen several dogs out here that are HTA. I am not that impressed

You do realize that Honky Tonk Attitude is a direct son of Fiddling Rocky Boy. So that being said, you have seen several dogs that are Fiddling Rocky Boy bred and are not impressed

.

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:00 am

Ron R wrote:
jcbuttry8 wrote:I don't have any HTA but do have a fine young one from some of the FRB. I have seen several dogs out here that are HTA. I am not that impressed
You do realize that Honky Tonk Attitude is a direct son of Fiddling Rocky Boy. So that being said, you have seen several dogs that are Fiddling Rocky Boy bred and are not impressed .

No "bleep", hold on let me get my special helmet!!! I am sorry for stepping out of line and making people think that it is possible to like one branch of the tree over the other. Ladies and Gentlemen please ignore my previous posts you must as always find a tree and stick to it even if some of the offspring doesn't suit you or your likes. Better???

Joe

Troy08er · Post by **Troy08er** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:13 am

Texasdogtrainer wrote:Honky Tonk Attitude popularity rose due to the split in relationship between Scott Miller and Gary Keel. If it wasn't for this we would have been talking about High View Tribute, High View Nickle, Turbo or High View Jake. The three dogs that was sold becuase they where not like was Honky Tonk Attitude, High View Buddy and Nate's Hot Pepper, both are quality and multiple Champions but they were different than the dogs that was kept by Gary. Stan and Scott did an excellent job marketing HTA, it equals Bob Whele marketing ability. I purchased pups out of Bull when his stud fee was 250 and the only Championship he won at that time was the Western Regional. Bull was not nearly the dog Fiddlin Rocky Boy was but Bull was exceptional in his own right. I favor dogs that Keel kept, in fact I am heading to look at a young dog out of Ch. High View Hank, Hank is a son of High View Jake which is out of Rocky Boy and Ch. Snapbutton Kay. Another nice rocky boy son was Pinehill Rocky Hunter and I belive he had a sister that also won a Ch. I watch Bull run, Turbo and his son Ch. Winning Combination. Had a daughter out of Ch. High View Buddy and judged and named his son Uncensored champion in the region 8 walking championship. Take nothing away from Bull and his accomplishments, nice dog I even feed his littermate, Bodacious and bred him once and it produced a really nice winner for me ( Poker Straight Pride). I studded out a dog name Poker Straight Woody, by High View Nickle and also bred his littermate Poker Straight Nicki both was sired by Nickle out of a littermate to Turbo, double bred Rocky Boy. I still have that blood here in my kennel. That line produced a really nice dog I owned name Poker Straight Jackpot, I am currently developing his son Poker Straight Texas Class, super fancy, head full of sense, strong nose and plenty of gas in the tank.

What's behind snapbutton kay pedigree 3rd and 4th gen.?

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:20 am

jcbuttry8 wrote: I am sorry for stepping out of line and making people think that it is possible to like one branch of the tree over the other. Ladies and Gentlemen please ignore my previous posts you must as always find a tree and stick to it even if some of the offspring doesn't suit you or your likes. Better???

Dude, what are you talking about? I'm willing to have an intelligent discussion but I cannot comment to this.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:20 pm

Whats the difference between daytime soap-operas and GDF?

Nothing whatsoever. Sure both may have some educational value to them somewhere, but its so watered down with drama and pizzin matches that it has become more "Entertainment" than education or sport. Kinda like "Entertainment Wrestling"

Sorry... Please commence with the thread.

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:47 pm

Ron R wrote:
jcbuttry8 wrote:I don't have any HTA but do have a fine young one from some of the FRB. I have seen several dogs out here that are HTA. I am not that impressed
You do realize that Honky Tonk Attitude is a direct son of Fiddling Rocky Boy. So that being said, you have seen several dogs that are Fiddling Rocky Boy bred and are not impressed .

I thought the inteligent portion of this conversation left at this comment. I am not putting down all HTA. I just said I haven't seen anything that has impressed me yet. I don't understand why that has taken this so far. I am completely aware of who HTA is out of. I said what I have seen, I am not impressed. Rocky Boy was bred to several dams producing several off spring therefore some will have traits that people like and some will not.

I get that some on here must feel that everyone should agree with there views and likes but it is sometimes ok for the rest of us to like something different and have an opinion even if others want to call it RUDE AND UNREASONABLE. I don't care what you call it. I am going with another pup that will have a dose of HTA but it will also be loaded with Turbo and a few of the others mentioned above. It will be alot of FRB. Not a whole lot of HTA. I will give it a shot and see how it works. Maybe mixed with more Turbo I will think its fantastic.

No matter what at the end of the day I am the one paying the bills and doing the driving and getting the dog in shape and if I don't like the way it looks right off the bat I will not have the interest in it that it deserves to have. So, I guess at the end of the day it is not the facts that matter near as much as my opinion on what I am about to invest thousands of dollars and my time into.

Joe

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:23 pm

jcbuttry8 wrote:
Ron R wrote:
jcbuttry8 wrote:I don't have any HTA but do have a fine young one from some of the FRB. I have seen several dogs out here that are HTA. I am not that impressed
You do realize that Honky Tonk Attitude is a direct son of Fiddling Rocky Boy. So that being said, you have seen several dogs that are Fiddling Rocky Boy bred and are not impressed .
I thought the inteligent portion of this conversation left at this comment. I am not putting down all HTA. I just said I haven't seen anything that has impressed me yet. I don't understand why that has taken this so far. I am completely aware of who HTA is out of. I said what I have seen, I am not impressed. Rocky Boy was bred to several dams producing several off spring therefore some will have traits that people like and some will not.

I get that some on here must feel that everyone should agree with there views and likes but it is sometimes ok for the rest of us to like something different and have an opinion even if others want to call it RUDE AND UNREASONABLE. I don't care what you call it. I am going with another pup that will have a dose of HTA but it will also be loaded with Turbo and a few of the others mentioned above. It will be alot of FRB. Not a whole lot of HTA. I will give it a shot and see how it works. Maybe mixed with more Turbo I will think its fantastic.

No matter what at the end of the day I am the one paying the bills and doing the driving and getting the dog in shape and if I don't like the way it looks right off the bat I will not have the interest in it that it deserves to have. So, I guess at the end of the day it is not the facts that matter near as much as my opinion on what I am about to invest thousands of dollars and my time into.

Joe

Joe I think what people are trying to say is your posts made it sound like you were really mad/upset about what one poster said. I dont know if you were really upset, just your posts make it feel like you were pretty mad is all.

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:43 pm

[/quote]

Joe I think what people are trying to say is your posts made it sound like you were really mad/upset about what one poster said. I dont know if you were really upset, just your posts make it feel like you were pretty mad is all.[/quote]

Not mad just dissapointed. Once again, it is a conversation that was made personal. It was a jab. which is fine but nut up and stick around for the discussion. I don't hang out on the playground anymore.

joe

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:46 pm

jcbuttry8 wrote:

Joe I think what people are trying to say is your posts made it sound like you were really mad/upset about what one poster said. I dont know if you were really upset, just your posts make it feel like you were pretty mad is all.[/quote]

Not mad just dissapointed. Once again, it is a conversation that was made personal. It was a jab. which is fine but nut up and stick around for the discussion. I don't hang out on the playground anymore.

joe[/quote]

???

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:24 pm

I think what Joe meant was that he felt like Scott took a personal jab at the breeding on his pup because of what Joe stated about HTA lines and then he felt like Scott bailed on the discussion. I am not sure of what happened and don't want to get into it with anyone on here, I just got back from a month long suspension from GDF not too long ago. Personally to me Honky Tonk Attitude, Honky Tonk Maniac and Honky Tonk Gigolo all look like GSP's with long tails. I have told Ron and Adrian as well as some other friends of mine this in the past. I do not care for the way they look. I am sure they are fantastic bird finders and great dogs. I believe Joe is of the same opinion. I am not trying to upset anyone especially Ron. I consider him a good friend and I know Scott is a good friend of his, I am merely stating my personal opinion of the way the dogs look. I have never owned an HTA dog, trained one, hunted with one, etc. I probably never will own one I just do not care for their looks. Looks does not a bird dog make but it is just my personal opinion and choice and I think that is what Joe was trying to get at as well.