Is this normal for a Brittany puppy?

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Wed May 23, 2012 7:01 pm

I've had dogs before, but many of my dogs have been an older age when I got them.

So, I'm a little new at puppies, and I'm even more new at gun dogs.

As I mentioned before, four days ago, I finally took home my 8 week old, male, American Brittany puppy, July. When I visited him at six weeks, he was seemed timid, sweet, but he was the largest puppy and the most playful of the litter.

Now that he's home, he's very aloof. He seems disinterested in me, the others that live in my house, and seems to prefer to be alone. He's very responsive when I'm training him, but his tail barely wags. He's not a licker, and he's a huge nipper/biter. Sometimes, he'll even lunge at me and bite extremely hard. When I talk to him in a sweet, gentle tone, he looks at me, but he doesn't seem excited at all.

The other day, I brought him to a friends to play with a 10 week old puppy, and he played for a little while, but after a bit, he seemed to be really annoyed with the puppy. Although my friend and her dog were all sitting on one area playing, he picked up a toy and went to sit across the yard to chew alone.

I picked the Brittany because everyone around where I am, my breeder, and many on the internet rave about how sweet, gentle, sociable, and loyal they are. So, for all of you Brittany owners, have you ever experienced this?

Is this just an adjustment phase since I've only have him four days? Is this normal? Or should I be doing something now about his behavior?

Is there anything I can do to make him more excited and sociable? I asked my friends and various people to feed him treats, and sometimes, I let him eat kibble out of my hand. I've also been teaching him to sit and wait to come out of his crate, through doors, at meal times, etc.

What do you guys think? He's a lovely dog, but it's getting frustrating, and honestly, it's making me a little sad.

frosso · Post by **frosso** » Wed May 23, 2012 7:05 pm

I don't have any experience with Brittanys but have you called the breeder? A good breeder will talk to you and help you evaluate the behavior.

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Wed May 23, 2012 7:09 pm

I haven't spoken with her yet. I wanted to ask those here to see if I have anything to worry about before contacting her.

Redfishkilla · Post by **Redfishkilla** » Wed May 23, 2012 7:25 pm

Put him in his crate for two hours then come get him out....he'll like you. Show him a bird....he'll like you. Play with a wing on a string for three minutes a day....he'll like you. No training though....no sit and stay at all. That's a mild form of punishment. No biting is all I'd be teaching. Be happy and fun....but don't play with him as much....more kennel time.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed May 23, 2012 7:31 pm

Redfishkilla wrote:Put him in his crate for two hours then come get him out....he'll like you. Show him a bird....he'll like you. Play with a wing on a string for three minutes a day....he'll like you. No training though....no sit and stay at all. That's a mild form of punishment. No biting is all I'd be teaching. Be happy and fun....but don't play with him as much....more kennel time.

This sounds like the plan to me. Just do things he likes and forget the training for a month or two. I would stop the biting but don't be too rough doing it.

These are the pups fun times.

Ezzy

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Wed May 23, 2012 7:35 pm

Which way do you guys recommend stopping the biting?

A firm "no?" The yelping method? The walking away method?

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Wed May 23, 2012 7:36 pm

Redfishkilla wrote:Put him in his crate for two hours then come get him out....he'll like you. Show him a bird....he'll like you. Play with a wing on a string for three minutes a day....he'll like you. No training though....no sit and stay at all. That's a mild form of punishment. No biting is all I'd be teaching. Be happy and fun....but don't play with him as much....more kennel time.

He's in his crate a lot! When he's let out, he ignores me.

Post by **Sharon** » Wed May 23, 2012 7:41 pm

Every dog has its' own personality seperate from breed characteristics. I have a setter who always removes herself. If we are sitting in the tv room , she is lying in the kitchen. She's often found in the yard lying in the sun alone. I don't think you have anything to worry about with your dog. You can't make any conclusion after only 4 weeks.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Wed May 23, 2012 8:16 pm

Sharon wrote:Every dog has its' own personality seperate from breed characteristics. I have a setter who always removes herself. If we are sitting in the tv room , she is lying in the kitchen. She's often found in the yard lying in the sun alone. I don't think you have anything to worry about with your dog. You can't make any conclusion after only 4 weeks.

I agree that it's too early to draw conclusions about this pup's personality...that said, the 'risk' of getting a pup rather than an older dog is that there certainly are some pups that are more "affectionate" with their humans than others, in all breeds, not just Brittanies. I do think the chances are that this pup will become more "breed typical" in this regard.

As the pup learns that the sun rises and sets over your shoulder, that all good things come from you - he'll come around. If not, and if he hunts, you'll be able to move him pretty easily to another home - lot's of folks prefer a dog that doesn't need to be in their business all the time.

Post by **Sharon** » Wed May 23, 2012 8:25 pm

Exactly. I was going to ask the OP if he is the one feeding the dog.

BigTub · Post by **BigTub** » Wed May 23, 2012 8:47 pm

No it's not normal.

Fireside · Post by **Fireside** » Wed May 23, 2012 8:53 pm

You have had the puppy for four days.... give him a chance to chill out and get to feel like it is home. He may be in a bit of a fear stage and most likely he doesn;t have a clue what is going on in his world. talk to your breeder, but chances are everything is fine.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Wed May 23, 2012 9:14 pm

Ask the breeder about the weaning and post weaning living situation and dog v human interactions. It could be that he is real used to the pack at home and confused or not buying into the human ways yet ..in any event I am betting it all corrects itself in the weeks to come.

jarbo03 · Post by **jarbo03** » Wed May 23, 2012 9:19 pm

My griff was like this for a month or so, he grew out of it. He is now a great companion and house dog.

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Thu May 24, 2012 12:24 am

For the biting part, get a soda can and put some rocks in it so it makes a lot of loud noise when you shake it, and when he/she bites, use a stern no and a shake or 2 of the can. Quickly the pup will associate the "scary sound" with biting people. That is what my book on Springer Spaniels says to do anyways lol.

Corry

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Thu May 24, 2012 5:16 am

Be careful of what you ask for.

Give him time. He is adjusting. Some are more aloof but, as the bond grows with you two you will find this pup to be your dog.
Go lay on the floor and just lay there with the pup out of the crate.

The biting thing, I give them a pop under the chin or grab the lower jaw and NO! Also if they get hold of you push in to their mouth, they will back off. Eventually, even with no verbal que they learn it is not advantages to bite. You can also give them a chew toy. and same when they are chewing something you don't want them chewing swap out for a chew toy.

Good luck. Don't worry, he will come around.
Rick

P>S.
Has he been dewormed?

whatsnext · Post by **whatsnext** » Thu May 24, 2012 5:27 am

Just let him develop his own personality he may not turn out to be exactly what you expect but if in the end he listens is not aggressive and only likes a little pat on the head and then goes off in his own corner to relax....Things could be worse and in the end you will still have a good dog that you will enjoy. I have 2 britts right now, one of them is 12 and will take naps on the couch with my daughter with her arm around him, my 8 month old will go lay down in his own corner and every once in a while come and say high.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Thu May 24, 2012 5:46 am

This sounds like a puppy that did not have enough socializing in the whelping box.He may come around. This is not normal behavior for a people oriented puppy. This is a whole new world to him and might take a little time.
With the biting thing we lightly grasp the puppies nose and shake it. If he continues we take the same action as the momma dog and decend on him like the rath of god. shaking and growling. he must learn that biting is not tolerated under any circumstances. The dog world is not always a happy place. They learn very quickly what is allowed at this stage.
Best just to try to let him learn his place in his new pack for a week or two. There is a lot of time.
Talk with the breeder and try to find out how much socialization he's had. Be a bit aloof yourself and let him come to you. Don't try too hard to be his pal. That is what the pack leader does.
Good Luck CJ

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Thu May 24, 2012 9:04 am

Ruffshooter wrote: P>S.
Has he been dewormed?

He was positive for roundworms, and he is currently passing them. He was dewormed at six weeks, and he was taken to the vet at eight weeks, and the vet told me that he was negative for them now, but I'm still seeing live segments in his stool. Would this mess with his mood?

And thank you, everyone! I feel a lot better. Today, he actually whined a little when I left the room! He seems to ove his crate because it cuts him off from the rest of everyone else in the house. He barely cries at night. He only whimpers a little when he has to go outside.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Thu May 24, 2012 9:26 am

cptn wrote:
Ruffshooter wrote: P>S.
Has he been dewormed?
He was positive for roundworms, and he is currently passing them. He was dewormed at six weeks, and he was taken to the vet at eight weeks, and the vet told me that he was negative for them now, but I'm still seeing live segments in his stool. Would this mess with his mood?

And thank you, everyone! I feel a lot better. Today, he actually whined a little when I left the room! He seems to ove his crate because it cuts him off from the rest of everyone else in the house. He barely cries at night. He only whimpers a little when he has to go outside.

Sounds like an easy puppy

You said he was the biggest and boldest in the liter. Maybe he's just more independent and since he's in a new place he's wanting to explore his surroundings more than pay attention to you. His surroundings will get boring eventually though. Are you making him wait for his food? I wonder if instilling your dominance early on in non aggressive ways like making him understand that he eats only when you say so will help that bond grow stronger quicker. You could also do things like hold him on his back like a baby and keep him to your chest until he gives up struggling. Him giving in is submission. Once he submits, and only then, you can put him down and let him down. I haven't had experience with what you're dealing with, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but that would be my approach to the situation. I feel like a dog that knows who the alpha is is much more concerned with the alphas activities.

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Thu May 24, 2012 9:39 am

Sounds exactly like my Brittany when she was a pup. First time we let them out when we were picking her out all the puppies were playing except for her. She went off exploring on her own. When they all got tired the entire litter curled up in a big ball to sleep, except her. She would play with my wife and wanted nothing to do with me. To this day she still cuddles with my wife more then she does with me. But she turned out to be an awesome bird dog and a great house dog. Sleeps between my legs at night under the covers until I get hot and have to roll over. Then she's off to my wife where she sleeps the rest of the night. Don't worry, your pup will be just fine.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Thu May 24, 2012 1:06 pm

cptn wrote: He seems to ove his crate because it cuts him off from the rest of everyone else in the house. He barely cries at night. He only whimpers a little when he has to go outside.

Ha - most new puppie owners would kill to have their pup take to his crate like this! He'll be fine ....

vartz04 · Post by **vartz04** » Thu May 24, 2012 1:12 pm

I wish my weim loved his crate haha. I had to sleep on the floor next to the crate last night just so i could get some sleep before work. I have the opposite problem as you my pup doesn't want to do anything unless im part of it. hes adventurous but i need to be part of the adventure. He is only 3 days into being mine so im hoping the crate training will take soon so I can sleep.

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Thu May 24, 2012 4:54 pm

vartz04 wrote:I wish my weim loved his crate haha. I had to sleep on the floor next to the crate last night just so i could get some sleep before work. I have the opposite problem as you my pup doesn't want to do anything unless im part of it. hes adventurous but i need to be part of the adventure. He is only 3 days into being mine so im hoping the crate training will take soon so I can sleep.

Congrats on the Weim! I love them; they were one of my top choices when trying to select a breed. I did so some conditioning before I completely introduced him to the crate. I positioned it so that he could see me from my bed, and the first day I got him, I would play with him on the floor and then throw a toy into it casually, and praise him when he would go get it. Then, I would close it for a few minutes, and then quickly open it, and praise him.

Because of the way he is right now, the praise seemed like it was completely pointless, but before I laid down to sleep, I hid kibble, small pieces of treats, and new chews he had never seen. Each night, I change the chews so that it's different each night. And, while I'm active, I have him spend a lot of time in the crate during the day.

I don't know if any of that had truly an effect or if he is just happy to be alone, but I'm happy with the results. I'm in my living room right now, and he is quietly playing in his crate.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu May 24, 2012 5:08 pm

A puppy that age who prefers his crate to social interaction is missing out on important development. He is also establishing a default escape and may not respond to future pressure without seeking isolation. I don't feel comfortable with antisocial puppies.

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Thu May 24, 2012 7:34 pm

I'm the same way. I'll give him a week or two of being with me, and if nothing's changed, I'm going to talk to the breeder and figure out what I need to do.

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Thu May 24, 2012 7:50 pm

Also, have any of you guys tried using lemon juice or vinger to deter biting?

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Thu May 24, 2012 7:56 pm

Knine has the method I'll be using next for biting. http://www.kninebirddog.com/puppy-foundations.html

phoneman45 · Post by **phoneman45** » Thu May 24, 2012 9:55 pm

cptn,

I am no expert but have trained several Brits over the years and been around many more. I have never seen one act the way you have described. If I was in your shoes I would contact the breeder about a possible replacement. Brittanys are fun loving and outgoing dogs, what you are describing goes against the temperment of most Brittanies, especially pups. Good luck.

phoneman45

tahi193 · Post by **tahi193** » Thu May 24, 2012 10:08 pm

My dad has a Brittany who is about 4 years old now. When she was a puppy she didn't care much for people. It took her years before she even liked to be petted. Now she will come around for a pat on the head but she is still a very independent dog. The same goes for my one year old English setter, who behaved exactly how you described your new pup. As a dog she is very independent and not very concerned with me, although I think she likes me more than she lets on. She's just more interested in doing her own thing. She's very headstrong. It's pretty early to make a judgement on your pup but it's possible you got an independent one. I know how you feel because I was looking for a really great, loving dog and running buddy but so far it hasn't turned out that way. On a positive note, my setter has a high prey drive and would probably make an excellent hunting dog with the right trainer.

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Thu May 24, 2012 11:54 pm

Not knowing Britts that well I can not tell, however all other gundogs I have had or seen have not acted like this at the relevant ages !
They should have confidence and a pleasing nature .....

OR
The pup had very little human contact.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Fri May 25, 2012 5:39 am

Francois P vd Walt wrote:Not knowing Britts that well I can not tell, however all other gundogs I have had or seen have not acted like this at the relevant ages !
They should have confidence and a pleasing nature .....

OR
The pup had very little human contact.

I would very much like to know if this was a kennel bred puppy who had little human contact. It is not natural for a puppy to love his crate. At least not immediately.I too have not had experience with Britneys. But in raising and training many gun dogs of all ages I never had one that didn't bond with me.
Don't beg him if he won't come to you on his own now he likely never will.
Give him a chance he might be just waiting to see how the wind blows in his new pack. You have to be the leader he won't buy into it if you don't act like you are. He might be training you and taking over the leadership. Act superior.
Independence and ignoring you in a gun dog is a pain in the butt.
CJ

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Fri May 25, 2012 6:35 am

Fireside wrote:You have had the puppy for four days.... give him a chance to chill out and get to feel like it is home. He may be in a bit of a fear stage and most likely he doesn;t have a clue what is going on in his world. talk to your breeder, but chances are everything is fine.

I totally agree with Fireside. The poor little guy was just ripped from everything he knew...his home, his mom, his brothers & sisters and his people. It CAN be overwhelming for some pups. Give him a little time. Do not coddle him, but give him a little time.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Fri May 25, 2012 7:31 am

Fireside, Karen and a few others are the voice of reason here . This is much ado about nothing. Its way too early and first hand knowledge way too sparse to make behavioral health or genetic diagnosis. Its memorial day weekend take the pup outside let it play. If there is reasonable conjecture to be applied it simply is conditioned to the litter and is under socialized ..he will come around.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:32 am

Does the puppy appear to have normal vision? Reviewing some of your comments reminded me of some client pups that had juvenile cataracts. Not something normally found in Brittanys, but just a thought.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Fri May 25, 2012 11:34 am

Good point, Casey. Check hearing too.

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Fri May 25, 2012 11:47 am

Yes! He can see very well, and he seems to hear well, too.

He's actually coming around a little. It's not a lot, but I'm definitely seeing progress. I think you guys are right; he's probably just a little confused about where he is and misses his litter mates.

Today, he followed me around the kitchen, and if he sees me lie down on the bed, he lies down in his crate. Like he's copying me.

And he'll bite my arms, legs, fingers, and clothing, but today, I puckered my lips and offered my cheek, and he gave me a lick! I'm going to try lemon juice for the biting.

The tail is still motionless, and he still likes to go off on his own and voluntarily walks to his crate, but I'm feeling hopeful!

Post by **Sharon** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:08 pm

cptn wrote:Yes! He can see very well, and he seems to hear well, too.

He's actually coming around a little. It's not a lot, but I'm definitely seeing progress. I think you guys are right; he's probably just a little confused about where he is and misses his litter mates.

Today, he followed und the kitchen, and if he sees me lie down on the bed, he lies down in his crate. Like he's copying me.

And he'll bite my arms, legs, fingers, and clothing, but today, I puckered my lips and offered my cheek, and he gave me a lick! I'm going to try lemon juice for the biting.

The tail is still motionless, and he still likes to go off on his own and voluntarily walks to his crate, but I'm feeling hopeful!

My goodness. let's breed that dog soon.

"Today, I puckered my lips and offered my cheek, and he gave me a lick! I'm going to try lemon juice for the biting. " quote

You need a woman.

( just kidding you.)

I'd hold off on discipline for this pup for now. Any human contact is to be encouraged.

vartz04 · Post by **vartz04** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:16 pm

cptn wrote:Yes! He can see very well, and he seems to hear well, too.

He's actually coming around a little. It's not a lot, but I'm definitely seeing progress. I think you guys are right; he's probably just a little confused about where he is and misses his litter mates.

Today, he followed me around the kitchen, and if he sees me lie down on the bed, he lies down in his crate. Like he's copying me. ]

And he'll bite my arms, legs, fingers, and clothing, but today, I puckered my lips and offered my cheek, and he gave me a lick! I'm going to try lemon juice for the biting.

The tail is still motionless, and he still likes to go off on his own and voluntarily walks to his crate, but I'm feeling hopeful!

Must be nice to get some sleep. Thank god its the weekend and I can finally take a nap. Id give him another week or so to come around.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:17 pm

BREED IT! For the love of GOD haven't you read the list of things potentially wrong with it? I cannot believe the woman still touches the wretched thing...as a matter of fact i am logging off I am scared to death of a computer virus on this thread...

ps...check that little sombeaches crate for possible weapons and sleep in shifts

ok...the real ps is he is awful cute and dont tell anybody that I would take a show dog...but if you dont like him ship him to me

Post by **Sharon** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:20 pm

Chukar12 wrote:BREED IT! For the love of GOD haven't you read the list of things potentially wrong with it? I cannot believe the woman still touches the wretched thing...as a matter of fact i am logging off I am scared to death of a computer virus on this thread...

ps...check that little sombeaches crate for possible weapons and sleep in shifts

ok...the real ps is he is awful cute and dont tell anybody that I would take a show dog...but if you dont like him ship him to me

?? Did you see the winker? Have you been drinking? Or is this sarcasm?

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:22 pm

Sharon wrote:?? Did you see the winker? Have you been drinking? Or is this sarcasm

yes

Post by **Sharon** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:23 pm

touche

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Fri May 25, 2012 4:01 pm

Sharon wrote:
You need a woman. ( just kidding you.)

I'd hold off on discipline for this pup for now. Any human contact is to be encouraged.

Honey, I am a woman!

Chukar12 wrote:BREED IT! For the love of GOD haven't you read the list of things potentially wrong with it? I cannot believe the woman still touches the wretched thing...as a matter of fact i am logging off I am scared to death of a computer virus on this thread...

ps...check that little sombeaches crate for possible weapons and sleep in shifts

ok...the real ps is he is awful cute and dont tell anybody that I would take a show dog...but if you dont like him ship him to me

Haha! This cracked me up!

And I know! He's beautiful and adorable! This is why I don't want to give up on him. But if he's too much trouble, you'd be the first. His lines are show and field!

Post by **Sharon** » Fri May 25, 2012 4:08 pm

cptn wrote:
Sharon wrote:
You need a woman. ( just kidding you.)

I'd hold off on discipline for this pup for now. Any human contact is to be encouraged.

Honey, I am a woman!

..........................................................................

Hmmm No I won't say anything more.

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Sat May 26, 2012 7:51 am

Sharon wrote:
cptn wrote:
Sharon wrote:
You need a woman. ( just kidding you.)

I'd hold off on discipline for this pup for now. Any human contact is to be encouraged.
Honey, I am a woman!

..........................................................................

Hmmm No I won't say anything more.

He he he he he he he !

cptn · Post by **cptn** » Sat May 26, 2012 1:57 pm

This is the bugger in question doing a beautiful point! Even though he's a little anti-social, I get even more attached to the boy each day. :]

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Sat May 26, 2012 6:28 pm

He is a wicked cutie. Nothing cuter than a brit pup.

I do not see where he is too much trouble. Hoping you are saying this in jest.You have a normal pup that just is a bit unsure of stuff. Just give it time and stop worrying. Just make sure it is healthy dewormed fed by you and like I said lay around on the floor and let pup come to you. In just a few weeks you will see the pup develop.

Good luck.
Rick

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Sat May 26, 2012 6:59 pm

Agree Rick. Seeing those pics reminds us of just how young this puppy is....lighten up and enjoy the ride, cptn!

Cute, cute pup btw. He may be too cute to discipline.

Post by **Sharon** » Sat May 26, 2012 9:20 pm

What a sweetheart!