Trialing or hunting ?
- Francois P vd Walt
- Rank: Champion
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- Location: Witbank South Africa
Trialing or hunting ?
How many guys out there start hunting then trialing and end back up hunting and why ?
Matotoland Kennel SA
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- PntrRookie
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 1870
- Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:41 pm
- Location: SE Wisconsin
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
I am 2/3's of the way there...don't think i will stop trialing soon but I could see how it would happen. You miss the peacefulness of the hunt. Hunting is usually less stressful, less complaining, less "work", probably cheaper. But I enjoy the competition and do both (if there is time)
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- Rank: 3X Champion
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Re: Trialing or hunting ?
Youv'e penned my story, hunted 20,trialed 10,rather paid for the trialing,ran the dog a few times myself,I can't stand someone watching me work,so the having someone judge is just the same,don't fit my buisness,I thought the trialing was to showcase the potential for breeding the next generation,which has not been what I've seen,so I'm done with it,I prefer the solitude that hunting affords,the wind in your face,sun on the skin,the cackles of roosters,chuckling of chukars,barking of valley quail,and the sight of rolling stubble or crp with the morning sun rising in the background.I had a good trial dog and he and his stringmates are what I have for a bar to measure with.No more trialing for me,if I had the money I pissed away on it .............................. man o man could I take some whopper tri state hunting sabaticals.
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
Weeds, this is interesting to me. You have considerable more trialing experience than I do, but I have been hunting with dogs since i could walk and I am 47 today. I would not propose for a second arguing the inarguable; a competitive venue can and often does magnify the best and worst in people, frustration, burnout or diverging purposes are common reasons people tend to move on...but, in the field trial realm I have been able to see more dogs and have a much more comprehensive education and opinion on what to breed to than I was ever able to get as a hunter. If for no other reason than I never have; or intend to spend that much time with that many people hunting with live ammunition. Did you see this differenly?Wildweeds wrote:,I thought the trialing was to showcase the potential for breeding the next generation,which has not been what I've seen,so I'm done with it,
Joe
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
I do both. No plans to quit either.
We have done something with nothing for so long we are now qualified to do everything with anything....
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=275
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=520
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=275
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=520
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
I hunted, started trialing with my hunting dogs, then hunted with my trial dogs, and now I am back to just hunting. Why did I quit trialing - time. Someday I will run a dog again and it will be one of my hunting dogs.
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
Exactly. Does it have to be either /or?Buckeye_V wrote:I do both. No plans to quit either.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
I don't miss the trialing itself but did miss watching all the dogs. No I'm pretty restricted about where I can watch them so mostly on the break away and hopefully a bird field in June. Now that there arte walking trials in the N.W., I am really enjoying them more than horseback. Just wish I could walk braces and keep up. I can get around some hunting but don't do well on chuker hills any more. Thinking I'm gonna do more grouse this year. That and just put out Bob Whites for my boys. Hunting and shooting birds has waned in me over the past few years. Prefer to watch the dogs and let the birds go for the most part. I think some where along the way I've killed more than my share. Grouse, especially Blues are a different story. Not only the tuffest birds to shoot but also the best to eat by far!
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
I consider myself a hunter first. But I do run a few trials for fun when the hunting season is closed.
Steve
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
Trialing or hunting?
Yes.
Yes.
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
I have an old friend that has been trialing about 30 yrs. He's never hunted wild birds! He knows a lot about trialing but squat about hunting.
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
I'll give my opinion on this, and think I have an idea where Weeds is going with as well. One would think that if you spend big money to trial every weekend and continually get your arse whooped by a certain dog, common logic would suggest that might be something to try to match your bitch up with. Unfortunatley the competetive and ego driven society we all reside in, the opposite is true. If the person with the gyp asked you to breed with that super dog, they would be then declaring your dog....... better! Instead person with gyp goes finds some other stud dog, maybe use the excuse that papers lines up better, or hot shot pro handles the dog so has a bigger name. Yet the dog that out performed everyone else all year sits idle in the kennel waiting for a date. If it was all about paper and big name then why perform in the first place, just chase paper and name anyways???????????? Of course this does not hold true across the whole spectrem and not all people, but it happens enough to make a person wonder, what did I campaign my dog that hard for??????????Chukar12 wrote:Weeds, this is interesting to me. You have considerable more trialing experience than I do, but I have been hunting with dogs since i could walk and I am 47 today. I would not propose for a second arguing the inarguable; a competitive venue can and often does magnify the best and worst in people, frustration, burnout or diverging purposes are common reasons people tend to move on...but, in the field trial realm I have been able to see more dogs and have a much more comprehensive education and opinion on what to breed to than I was ever able to get as a hunter. If for no other reason than I never have; or intend to spend that much time with that many people hunting with live ammunition. Did you see this differenly?Wildweeds wrote:,I thought the trialing was to showcase the potential for breeding the next generation,which has not been what I've seen,so I'm done with it,
Joe
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
First of all I am a trialer first and hunter second. I trial primarily in the grouse woods on wild birds and hunt grouse and woodcock in the off time. I trial more than I hunt mostly because there aren't that many birds where I live and have to travel for hunting and trialing and I can do both in the same place. I enjoy trialing for the competition and the opportunity if affords me to watch so many dogs. After you go to enough trials you can see why the winning dogs win and why the other ones don't, some of them are just special and you know it when you see it.
Houstonmc,
I might be wrong but from your post it sounds like you seem to think people are not breeding to the top winning dogs out of spite or jealousy. Trialers are always watching and your dog can win everything in his game but if he doesn't produce dogs that win, people will notice and no one is going to breed to him. Good breeders breed the dog and the paper, not the titles. I am not saying what you are implying doesn't happen but I have never seen it or heard of it.
Houstonmc,
I might be wrong but from your post it sounds like you seem to think people are not breeding to the top winning dogs out of spite or jealousy. Trialers are always watching and your dog can win everything in his game but if he doesn't produce dogs that win, people will notice and no one is going to breed to him. Good breeders breed the dog and the paper, not the titles. I am not saying what you are implying doesn't happen but I have never seen it or heard of it.
- Francois P vd Walt
- Rank: Champion
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- Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:26 pm
- Location: Witbank South Africa
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
IMO Trialing is importend if you looking for a dog or breed dogs, you can see a whole lot of dogs their style working ability etc.
Hunting I find many guys not really care in training the dogs well, cause time out for both are limited.
Hunting I find many guys not really care in training the dogs well, cause time out for both are limited.
Matotoland Kennel SA
http://gsp-bullet.blogspot.com/
http://gsp-bullet.blogspot.com/p/dog-pedigrees.html
http://gsp-bullet.blogspot.com/
http://gsp-bullet.blogspot.com/p/dog-pedigrees.html
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
Pretty much, ya that's what I'm getting at. I'm talking about the amateur that has been a hunter and gets into the trailing game in the offseason. They'll spend considerably more money chasing the circuit, rather on their own or have their dog with a pro. Their reason....... They know what kind of hunting dog they have, they have their own opinion of how well they like their dog. The trialling is to promote their dog and see how it stacks up against others in a judged format. If said amateur does well and wins, spent all that money campaigning, yet still no one wants to breed to his dogs, because he does have that popular prefix..........then why do it? The owner knew what kind of dog they had before they ever put it down in front of the judge. How is anybody ever going to get a chance to see how he produces, if the only people that want to breed is the owner and the hunting buddy, that would have bred anyways???????? This is my opinion of an example of the hunter that gets into trailing and goes back to strictly hunting. People that strictly trial and rarely hunt or campaign dogs for a living, have a kennel name, etc etc. That is a complete different set of circumstances. There are many people that will agree or disagree and a million different scenarios that can refute this opinion, this just happens to be what I have observed on a local weekend trialling stage. I have seen and still see some AWESOME dogs, from awesome stock, never get bred oustide of their own kennel. Simply because other people want to try and win with something else instead of whats winning now.Jakezilla wrote:
I might be wrong but from your post it sounds like you seem to think people are not breeding to the top winning dogs out of spite or jealousy. Trialers are always watching and your dog can win everything in his game but if he doesn't produce dogs that win, people will notice and no one is going to breed to him. Good breeders breed the dog and the paper, not the titles. I am not saying what you are implying doesn't happen but I have never seen it or heard of it.
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
Winning dogs attract the best hands...that always plays an important part as well.
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Re: Trialing or hunting ?
I am going to take a shot at trialing my new pup. We will see how it goes I have trained and ran Retrievers for 17 years now it is time for something different. I am a hunter #1 but I believe a dog that runs hunt tests and trials is going to be a better trained dog and you are going to have much better team working together. It depends on what a person wants. I hunt for the dog work now and that is what I enjoy most. I enjoy good dog training good dogs and working with good people. I do believe to many folks ego's ride on what their dogs do and they make a huge deal about winning and losing. I have seen some horrible sports and fools made over a ribbon. I want to enjoy my new pup and if she turns out to be a nice trial dog great if she doesn't well that will be fine and I won't lose sleep over it.
http://cottonwoodretrievers.com/ "Our Passion is Retrievers"
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
That is a for sure.Waterdogs1 wrote:I am a hunter #1 but I believe a dog that runs hunt tests and trials is going to be a better trained dog and you are going to have much better team working together.
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
I did the opposite, went from hunting to trialing then pretty much gave up hunting . Why?
1. Access to land
2. Birds.
3. Duration of season.
4. Social aspect.
5. Requires you to spend more time with your dogs when not trialing.
6. I have killed enough birds over a lifetime to satisfy the need.
7. I enjoy being on horseback.
8. Too many idiots hunting these days to be safe on public access grounds.
9. I get to learn more about birddogs.
10. I get to watch a variety of dogs perform.
1. Access to land
2. Birds.
3. Duration of season.
4. Social aspect.
5. Requires you to spend more time with your dogs when not trialing.
6. I have killed enough birds over a lifetime to satisfy the need.
7. I enjoy being on horseback.
8. Too many idiots hunting these days to be safe on public access grounds.
9. I get to learn more about birddogs.
10. I get to watch a variety of dogs perform.
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- Rank: Senior Hunter
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Re: Trialing or hunting ?
Hunting and then trialing. I enjoy the time spent with friends hunting and trialing. The dogs have enabled me to meet great people from all over the USA and other countries as well. I do spend more time training if I am going to trial a dog, and that is a good thing.
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
Hunting and then trial. Like many people have already mentioned the only reason I trial is because if I breed and want to get rid of the pups, the only way people will take them seriously is if they have performed in some type of judged format. It's hard to sell dogs when they are plain old good wild bird dogs (at least in my experience). I love training dogs and the whole reason I will ever breed a dog is if I am going to keep one or two for myself, but since they don't just have one or two at a time I have to try and make them marketable. Wild birds will always be my highest measure of a dog, but since 95% of the time I hunt alone I must trial in order to show my dogs are substantial.
- Francois P vd Walt
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:26 pm
- Location: Witbank South Africa
Re: Trialing or hunting ?
Trialing can be the same as gambling if you give it a go and win, or see you have a good dog, you will be back !
Matotoland Kennel SA
http://gsp-bullet.blogspot.com/
http://gsp-bullet.blogspot.com/p/dog-pedigrees.html
http://gsp-bullet.blogspot.com/
http://gsp-bullet.blogspot.com/p/dog-pedigrees.html