crazier than us dog gamers!

larue · Post by **larue** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:12 am

I watched two brave crazy women take a dive into a flooded mine shaft
that is on our land.The exact history of this shaft is not known,but the mine was 400 feet deep,and was sauk countys largest iron ore mine,it was last worked in the early 1900's.
The first woman dove to about 60 feet,where the shaft narrowed,she did not find much,the 2nd woman diver went down to 160 feet ,whee she stopped,and the shaft continued down.She found a wood,iron ladder taht started at 80 feet and went down.She stopped at 160,but will dive deeper
with a different blend of air,and a more experienced partner to go with her.The 2nd woman had her air tanks attached to her sides,so she could get through the tight spots.
The historian/mine expert thought it was possible that this shaft was used to pump water out of the rest of the mine,it is timbered all the way down.
He is excited about the small chance that the pump might be still own there,as there are few left of this age.
I will post pics when I get them,they might take a camera down with them next time,but as space is small,they need to get a small camera.
and people think dog tariners are crazy!!!!

GSP4619 · Post by **GSP4619** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:45 am

Post by **Ayres** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:45 am

Holy cow! What's a term for the combined fears of claustrophobia and hydrophobia?

Breton13 · Post by **Breton13** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:08 am

Ayres wrote:Holy cow! What's a term for the combined fears of claustrophobia and hydrophobia?

Me!

GSP4619 · Post by **GSP4619** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:35 am

ROTFL

wannabe · Post by **wannabe** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:45 pm

I would be interested in hearing more about the different blend of air. I was always under the impression that all diver used Grade E breathing air in their SCUBA tanks.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:46 pm

OK, you asked for it.

diving below 130 feet is considered technical diving, not sport diving. below 130 feet, standard air results in exposure to a very high risk of decompression sickness, aka "the bends" with a very short bottom time. to avoid the bends, it is necessary to go through decompression. decompression is very serious business. in effect, the diver has a ceiling past which he/she may not ascend until the diver has fulfilled his/her decompression stop or stops. if you do, you get the bends. you cannot just surface if you have a problem. the deeper you go and the longer you stay, the more decompression time that is required. sometimes the bends can be fixed by spending alot of time in a decompression chamber, sometimes it can result in serious and permanent damage to the joints or spinal column.

the bends are caused by the nitrogen content of air. air is (with some trace elements), 21% oxygen and 79% nitrogen. it is possible to mix gases that allow a greater bottom time with a much reduced exposure to the bends, by reducing the percentage of nitrogen. the solution, however, is not to increase the O, say to a 30/70 mix, because O becomes toxic at a certain level, highly toxic, to the point that it causes seizures and unconsciousness. not a good thing when you are 160 feet down.

another issue of concern is called "nitrogen narcosis," a condition where nitrogen in effect becomes intoxicating, again, not a good thing to have happen when you are 160 feet down. It can actually begin to happen above the sport limit, so you are on the edge at 160 feet.

there are blends in use, called Nitrox, in which the percentage of O is 32% (Nitrox I) or 36% (Nitrox II), but they are meant for long shallow dives, not even as deep as the 130 foot sport limit.

more exotic blends are used for deep diving. they involve mixing in another gas that is not toxic but not something one would ordinarily breath. the primary candidate is helium, and the exotic mixture is called trimix by divers. trimix is a mixture of oxygen, nitrogen and helium. the idea is to substitute helium for nitrogen, reducing the concentration (called "partial pressure") of nitrogen and thus the risk of the bends. depending on how deep you go, it may also be necessary to reduce the partial pressure of oxygen, to make sure you are well under the partial pressure at which it becomes toxic. the partial pressure of a gas increases as you go deeper, because of the pressure of the water column, so a concentration of O that was OK at the surface, can become toxic at depth.

there is also a gas called Heliox, which is just Helium and Oxygen.

nowadays, computers and custom software are used to decide on the gas mix, and quite a few divers have gone to using rebreathers, rather than SCUBA. with the rebreathers designed for technical diving, you can change the partial pressures "on the go," depending on your depth.

so i hope your friend who was at 160 knew what she was doing. diving becomes dangerous at those depths, extra equipment, redundancy to deal with emergencies, a good dive partner, and a knowledge of the gas laws become very important.

i had relatives with a "blue hole" on their ranch in NM that went down over 200 feet. the second time they had to go down to pick up bodies, they stopped the diving in the hole for good.

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:09 pm

All right John, What did you do in a past life?

That is a lot of info I have only heard on Discovery.

larue · Post by **larue** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:11 am

john,they are really not my friends,but cave divers who are linked up with the mine expert.
As far as equipt,they wore dry siuts,had computerized wrist displays
that told them how deep they went,how fast to rize,when to stop and wait,ect.they are extremley experienced.
I asked about the depth,and they told me you could dive over 200 feet,but they did not know if they would in such a confined space,and the one who went down to 160,is recuiting another to take the next step,as the other one was not good enough to go with her.

GSP4619 · Post by **GSP4619** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:23 am

John you are so worldly. LOL what don't you know

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:30 am

what can i say. life is an adventure. do stuff, enjoy it while you can.

i haven't done that for awhile, but since your life depends on it, you pretty much learn the principles and seal them in your brain so they don't spill out when you need them most.

now, if you are really interested in diving, there is this island in the south pacific called Yap. they still use stone money there, and the brochures warn that women tourists should not leave the resort without a wrap-around, because it is taboo on the island to show your thigh. Yapese traditional dress for women, however, does not include tops of any kind.

the manta rays come in squadrons to hover over underwater mounds, and the little fish come up to clean them. true.

larue, it sounds like they know what they are doing. those wrist displays are dive computers that calculate things like nitrogen saturation on the fly. easier than doing the math in your head. however, there is an unavoidable danger component to that technical diving, like doing Everest, some people will just die no matter how well prepared. if they are hesitating to go further without better preparation, they are good divers.

GSP4619 · Post by **GSP4619** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:34 am

LOL Amazing LOL What else can I say ROTFL.

wannabe · Post by **wannabe** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:43 am

John,

Thanks for the info!

markj · Post by **markj** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:29 am

John you nailed it, my Uncle is a diver that has gone very deep. He is older now tho and doesnt dive now. Cave diving is one of the most dangerous types of diving and yep some do die in there. I favore regular spelunking and have been in many a cave, some had no lights or elect so it was a hope the battery lasts and backup lanterns work

I love to take a person down and shut the lites off

then move several feet away and listen to tehm. 5 min and most are going batty

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:35 am

in underwater cave diving, the biggest risk is that the bottom will get stirred up. usually there is a hundred years of light silt on everything, and if a diver starts to fin or move around too much, you will generate an instant black-out. you cannot see your hand in front of your face, your gauges or anything. it will settle down in a few hours, but by that time, you are long since out of air. cave divers use rope or string to mark their route, and hope never to have to use it, because even that is hard to find in a black out. but it does happen, especially with inexperienced people who get a little panicky and just start finning.

different from spelunking in air in that regard, and the reason why even experienced divers sometimes just do not come up.

i will do limited underwater wreck penetration, which can be as bad as caves. but caves were never my thing.