Gun Dog Forum

This has probably been a thread before somewhere and if so I apologise. I've been given a book titled " Bird Dogs of the World " by Stanley Smith ...... a British geezer ! The book is 20 + years old and it has a section about brittanies. It seems that the original brits were often black and white or sable in colour . The sable colour has been the cause of arguments and some big fallings out between British, French, Australian and N.Zealand brittany folk. Some think the colour should be banned.

What are the thoughts about this in the U.S. where, I believe, black is a banned colouration ....... and why is black a banned colour ?

I believe black was also banned this side of the pond for many years and then the ban was lifted ?
I'm not trying to prove or disprove any colour , if the dog is a good worker that's fine by me. I'm just curious.

Bill T.

At the time when the dogs were imported the orange and liver were the only colors approved in France I believe. Those colors were tranfered to this country when the American Standard was written. Since that time, say in the past two decades or so is the first we saw of black. I don't think there has been anything against any color but rather they just weren't prevelant at the time.

The orange coloring has become darker and redder and the roan has all but disappeared. But we are seeing a lot of those colors and patterns in the more recent imports as well as the black but are being called french Brits. We have conflict with in the breed as how to handle these dogs.

Ezzy

Thanks Ezzy , what a situation for what is basically the same terrific little gundog to land up in ! We can no longer show American bred brits here but we can trial them ..... weird ! Presumably a black and white brit would get tossed out of a showring in the U.S. unless it competed in a different ring as French Brittany ?

We probably all have our own favourites among Brit colours, I happen to prefer a lot of clear white and orange but I still have no objections at all to Brittanies of other colours . My main reason for my colour preference is that I can see clear white more easily when working a dog in cover.

Bill T.

I believe in the 50's the color of Black and white were made part of the standard In Europe as there had always been black and white brittanies.

The Sable color is considered a disqualification as of the last year or so it written into the UKC French Brittany confirmation rules.

The only venue that recognizes the French Brittany as a different breed (which It is not IMO) is the UKC. The black and white as well as the other colors as such are part of the Standard colors and so the dogs are legitimately shown in the UKC ring.


Akc only recognizes the orange and whites, liver and whites, roans of each and tricolors of those colors in the show ring other colors are a DQ. That is for shows but one can run their other colored dogs in trials and hunt tests.
Rick

It sounds like a bit of a guddle the whole world over ! :roll:

Bill T.

There is a small but determined group of dual field and show Brittany people (mostly in upper New England) that are very into the roan colored dogs. They seem to be doing well with them in AKC trials and competition.

My vet had never seen a roan britt before I brought Kodi in for her puppy appointment this week.

I admit, I wanted clear, but she's a sweetheart and those roan faces are adorable.

ezzy333 wrote:At the time when the dogs were imported the orange and liver were the only colors approved in France I believe. Those colors were tranfered to this country when the American Standard was written. Since that time, say in the past two decades or so is the first we saw of black. I don't think there has been anything against any color but rather they just weren't prevelant at the time.

The orange coloring has become darker and redder and the roan has all but disappeared. But we are seeing a lot of those colors and patterns in the more recent imports as well as the black but are being called french Brits. We have conflict with in the breed as how to handle these dogs.

Ezzy

Ezzy. Are you on crack? Roans have all but disappeared? Where do you get your information. You might want to look at the 4th place dog at last years AA Open Nationals. I'm pretty sure he would qualify as "roan".

What would you call the color of my brit -- the one in my avatar? I don't see a lot of them with the same type of coloring.
Locally, I also know of a few caramel-colored brits. It also seems to be a pretty unusual color.

jetjockey wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:At the time when the dogs were imported the orange and liver were the only colors approved in France I believe. Those colors were tranfered to this country when the American Standard was written. Since that time, say in the past two decades or so is the first we saw of black. I don't think there has been anything against any color but rather they just weren't prevelant at the time.

The orange coloring has become darker and redder and the roan has all but disappeared. But we are seeing a lot of those colors and patterns in the more recent imports as well as the black but are being called french Brits. We have conflict with in the breed as how to handle these dogs.

Ezzy

Ezzy. Are you on crack? Roans have all but disappeared? Where do you get your information

Yep, I am on crack. Thanks for solving the puzzle for me.

When I started in Britts there were almost as many roans as clear colored and there were no livers to speak of. A friend of mine showed a liver bitch out of the dogs we had and I believe she was the second one to finish a show title. Some of my dogs came down from HOF Dingo's Little Mike, a roan. I had a son of his,Ch. Dusty Dingo DeTriump, who was a roan also. And Allamuchy dogs run towards roans, Ultra and Uno also being in my pedigrees plus quite a few French dogs that tended to be a high percentage of roans.. Many of the field dogs were roans at that time. Today I know of two personally though I know there are a lot more but not even close to what we used to have. I finally got rid of mine as they were the last of most litters to sell. Probably why I had so many.

Thanks again for figuring out my problem and the confidential method of informing me. Your tack will alway be remembered. :roll:

Ezzy

SpinoneIllinois wrote:What would you call the color of my brit -- the one in my avatar? I don't see a lot of them with the same type of coloring.
Locally, I also know of a few caramel-colored brits. It also seems to be a pretty unusual color.

Your dog is liver. Have no idea what you are calling carmel but it would either be a dark orange or a light faded liver. But we do know those are the only two colors in the Brittany that has been here for a few years. The newer imports have some other colors and shades but I couldn't tell you what all they might be.

Ezzy

SpinoneIllinois wrote:What would you call the color of my brit -- the one in my avatar? I don't see a lot of them with the same type of coloring.
Locally, I also know of a few caramel-colored brits. It also seems to be a pretty unusual color.

I would say your britt is liver/roan in color and the caramel color you are talking about i believe would be called sable

Ezzy. You said roans have "all but disappeared". Sorry, but that is just not true. Have you been to a trial lately? That is hardly the case, there are a lot more roans then "all but disappeared". heck, theres a facebook page dedicated to roan brittanys. Now, there may have been more roans in the past, but I think that depends more on the area where you are from. When my family got our first Brits in the mid 70's, most Brits in our area were clear, not roan. Btw. The 1st and 3rd place dogs at the chicken championship this year were both roans. There are a lot more roans out there then you think.

Edit.. I just looked at several websites of Brittany pros. Not only do most of them have at least two roans on most of the strings, the 2012 eastern AA futurity winner was a roan as well. Ezzy. I shouldn't have said you were "on crack" but your comment really caught me off guard. There are a bunch of roans running the trial circuits right now.

was at our clubs show specialty last week and watched the sporting group. The Britt was a lovely roan! I was really surprised to see him cause most Britts we see in the Group ring are clear white/orange. He was a lovely dog... and I found out owned by a very well known trialer.

Just one small observation.
Fuzz