All day hunting endurance

[AzDoggin]

The other endurance threads reminded me to post this question: How does a dog learn to pace himself over a 5-6 hour hunt?

I have to drive far enough to get into birds, I hunt half days at minimum. My brittany could easily handle hunting half days + (given enough water), and she hunted hard - but she was small boned, light on her feet, and tough as nails (I got lucky finding her).

What characteristics in the parents are you looking for to find a good all-day wild-bird dog?

[Mountaineer]

I have zero desire for an all day endurance dog.

I do like a dog that paces themselves over a big hour tho.
Oftentimes, that comes from age, cover and bird populations.
Parents?...tough feet helps.
Some dogs just run hard and pound hard....best to learn to cope with the less than perfect, in any factor of dog or hunterdom.

[AzDoggin]

I have zero desire for an all day endurance dog.

Thanks for the input - would you mind clarifying? Is this because you want a dog that goes 100% for shorter periods?

[Mountaineer]

I have three setters...never run more than one at a time....my own preference.
I hunt smallish coverts or portions of larger ones, clearcuts or, CRP fields....where seldom do I hunt more than that big hour...maybe two.
Therefore, no need or desire for an all day, or half, dog.
Others, in different areas, holding different desires and with different birds may well profit by an all day dog.
Also, saw that no one responded to this thread and thought I would add my own small and personal preference/requirements.

On the other hand, the principles that play into the mythical? all-day dog, apply just as much to the big hour dog, to me.
Essentially, dogs that do not beat themselves up...they hunt smart. and run with an idea that crashing full-nose ahead may not always be wise...or profitable.
Can't say that I could look at a dog's parents and pick that out as a factor tho....watching them hunt over Time, maybe.
It likely is there, if one could recognize it or it simply develops based on the dog's experiences, brain and 2+2s.

I never owned a dog that did not hunt 100% when down..if by that you mean, a dog that quits cold turkey.
I have had and have dogs that stop and look at me...relaying..."why the heck am I here...there's no birds?"
When that happens and the dog may slow or fall below some description of 100%, I do not consdier the dog is anything but wise and trying to help me...and save themselves.
Simply,I have no interest for a dog that always goes 100%, full speed....."gotta find 'em, gotta find 'em".
May sound odd, but works for me....with wild birds, I do sufficiently well.
Trialers may look at it differently, as implied above.

* I suppose that I should add that I am an all day hunter but, and a big one it is, I appreciate the big hour hunts.
I also have to tote less water than for an expedition.
Nice when dog fits hunter...and vice-versa.
I do hate to see a hunter overwork in trying to bend and twist and shape a pup to fit their vision or ego....that has limits that some appear to exceed...to me.

[AzDoggin]

Simply,I have no interest for a dog that always goes 100%, full speed....."gotta find 'em, gotta find 'em".
May sound odd, but works for me....with wild birds, I do sufficiently well.

Nice when dog fits hunter...and vice-versa.

I do hate to see a hunter overwork in trying to bend and twist and shape a pup to fit their vision or ego....that has limits that some appear to exceed...to me.

Thanks for the info!! I'm with you on the "always 100%" dog. I hope my next beast will have the intelligence to be able to pace itself. As for water, ya, carry lot's - and it's HEAVY. I saw a pic in the most recent NAVHDA magazine of a hunter with two gsp's - and a pitbull with backpacks for water for all three!!! Thought that was a pretty creative solution...

On most of my hunts, we walk for an hour or two, and get back to the truck to move to the next spot, so there is some "cool down" and "water down" time in between. The other thing? I talk big these days about "all day hunts" but at nearly 55 - some of that is approaching just talk. Usually - we are at it little after sunup, and driving back a little after noon.

Appreciate the opinions...

[RayGubernat]

Before I got into trialing, most of my dogs were expected to hunt all day, or at least for a half day, several days per week. The dogs I had were trial bred, sometimes rejects or leftovers, but pretty much all had trial breeding close up. They all hunted pretty hard and had fairly wide ground application, certainly on the order of what might be expected of an ambitious walking shooting dog of today, because that is what I was used to and what I wanted to see. Most of the folks i hunted with thought my dogs ran too big, but most were quite happy when the dog stood on point for the five minutes it took for them to walk/jog to the point. Funny thing was, they didn't often say the dog ran too big after walking to a couple points. But I digress....

My son commented on this very subject, a couple of weeks ago.

As background, I gave him one of my dogs this past summer. The dog was five years old, field trial trained, in condition and dialed in to going full bore for an hour. He could be competitive in both Shooting Dog and All Age one hour events and placed occasionally. When he was put down in front of a horse, he was what might be termed a haul-A$$ dog, by most definitions.

He took the dog mainly with the idea of hunting with him. He hunted several days a week during the early part of the season and hunted several hours per day. When he went hunting he almost always made a day of it.

He commented that the dog initially went big time for two or three hours at a clip and was pretty wiped out when he got home. Over the course of the seaosn, the dog's initial burst of speed got shorter and shorter and his pace slowed down some. By the end of the season, he was hunting for several hours at a clip and still had a little play left in him for my grandson when they got home.

I believe that many dogs have the ability to go for multiple hours a day, and with time to rest and recuperate, can hunt for multiple hours on a regular schecdule, like every other day or for half a day every day, several days in a row. They do need to pace themselves differentlythan they would for a one hour stake, but as noted above, they seem to be able to figure that part out eventually.

RayG

[Mountaineer]

... but at nearly 55 - some of that is approaching just talk. Usually - we are at it little after sunup, and driving back a little after noon....

At 60 in a month or so, I understand.
A friend and I normally hunt together so the 5 dogs equate to a full day with the youngest often getting paws down twice...sometimes that equals hunting from can see to can't see but often, a bit shorter, if we miss less.
Often, after 6 days or so on a hunting trip, I am glad of "shorter"....at least untill the trip home.

Used to be one could hunt the local Ohio grouse all day or a half day but access has changed the picture...as has the decline.
I expect that applies in many areas.
Change is constant.... in the Uplands and beyond.

Two of my setters were washouts...one I got at 4 and this latest at 3...they are my preference but one works with what one gets and adapts as necessary.
They can run big, they can out run their nose on bad scenting days but somehow, it all works out.
And good dogs do not go wanting.

[AzDoggin]

one works with what one gets and adapts as necessary.

Absolutely. Reminds me of that Teddie Roosevelt quote "Do the best you can with what you have where you are."

He commented that the dog initially went big time for two or three hours at a clip and was pretty wiped out when he got home. Over the course of the seaosn, the dog's initial burst of speed got shorter and shorter and his pace slowed down some. By the end of the season, he was hunting for several hours at a clip and still had a little play left in him for my grandson when they got home.

I believe that many dogs have the ability to go for multiple hours a day, and with time to rest and recuperate, can hunt for multiple hours on a regular schecdule, like every other day or for half a day every day, several days in a row. They do need to pace themselves differentlythan they would for a one hour stake, but as noted above, they seem to be able to figure that part out eventually.

RayG

Ray, that's exactly what I was wondering. A good dog has the ability to pace itself once it understands what it is facing.

Some hunting dog breeders address the stamina factor with their dogs - Jeff Funke of Three Devils Kennel out of Idaho is one. He addresses stamina, physical and mental toughness, gait, and tough feet as factors that are important. The dogs chasing chukar in the hills of Idaho are running on that lava rock a lot - same in Az chasing Gambel's quail. The desert can be heck on a dog's feet...

Thanks, gentlemen.

[slistoe]

I hunt my dogs in pairs in two hour shifts. Started that so every dog could get their fair turn but continue it because it is more fun to have a dog tear it up for two hours, take a rest for two and be ready to haul "bleep" again. I am well over fifty and am finding that the requirement to have dogs that will really get it done when on the ground is becoming more important so I can keep up with hunting all day.
As for the dog that can go all day - there isn't one if you want a flat out ground covered. 4 hours a day is the best I have been able to muster, either split or continuous if you want a hard going dog for day after day.

[AzDoggin]

slistoe, appreciate the opinions. If I had the dogs, I'd definitely put them on a rotation like many of you folks do. It only makes sense.

With one dog and a need to protect his health (especially in the earlier fall when temps are in the 70's), there will have to be some pacing and some breaks involved. I didn't word my original question very clearly - probably should have been something like "how to set up the conditions so your dog learns to pace itself over an all-day hunt?"

I used to hunt with a buddy - he had a big male Brittany, and I had a much smaller boned (but tougher) female. My girl would run his big boy into the ground. After her initial burst in the morning, she settled into a search pattern that was very efficient, yet seemed to allow her to work for much longer time periods. We'd still take several breaks - always said they were "for the dogs." but without them, we'd have killed the male. Several water breaks in the morning and a lunch break before hunting another hour or so. This was back when we regularly filled our 15 bird limits of Gambels and didn't leave until we did. My female was still rolling even as we were quitting.

My standards for taking birds have changed. Now I only want as many as it takes to reward the dog and keep him into birds as much as possible. The coveys aren't as big or as numerous - I want those little buggers to reproduce as much as possible..

[RayGubernat]

I hunt my dogs in pairs in two hour shifts. Started that so every dog could get their fair turn but continue it because it is more fun to have a dog tear it up for two hours, take a rest for two and be ready to haul "bleep" again. I am well over fifty and am finding that the requirement to have dogs that will really get it done when on the ground is becoming more important so I can keep up with hunting all day.
As for the dog that can go all day - there isn't one if you want a flat out ground covered. 4 hours a day is the best I have been able to muster, either split or continuous if you want a hard going dog for day after day.

I would agree with Scott on this. There was a time when I hunted hard and hunted often. That time is past for me. I found that if you hunt a dog hard all day, it needs a day to recuperate, at least. I have found that if you hunt a dog for a half day, that same dog can go for a half day the next day.

Also, it is fairly reasonable to expect a dog that is hunting all day when it hunts, to gear down slightly, right from the start, compared to the dog that hunts for a half day regularly and for the four hour dog to gear down slightly from the dog that typiclally gets swapped out after two hours.

RayG

[JKP]

I found that if you hunt a dog hard all day, it needs a day to recuperate, at least.

Finally a sensible response. I take 3 or 4 dogs to ND and always have fresh legs every day...alternate days in the field and duck blind.

[Francois P vd Walt]

It all depends how fit your dog is, if they run20min a day they willbe fit enough to rin to whole day.
Terrain will also determin how long the paws will last if they not use to it !

[Elkhunter]

I have a hard time hunting for more than 2-3 hours at a time in chukar hills. So we usually hunt in the morning for 2-3 hours,eat lunch and drive to a new spot and hunt for 2-3 hours again. I wear out long before the dogs do.

[Troy08er]

Same here, unless it's a really hot day.

I have a hard time hunting for more than 2-3 hours at a time in chukar hills. So we usually hunt in the morning for 2-3 hours,eat lunch and drive to a new spot and hunt for 2-3 hours again. I wear out long before the dogs do.

[SetterNut]

If your dog is in good condition it can go hard all day for several days in a row.
My 3 yo setter in my avatar put down 80 miles (using and Astro) in less than two full days of hunting, and was still going strong. This was in NW Kansas which is not flat, and has some pretty heavy CRP.
I also had a string of 14 day in a row hunting him. These were not all full day hunts. We didn't stop because he was wearing down, it was me.

But I make and effort to run them several times a week for an hour or more, so he is putting down 10 - 15 miles on these runs.

[birddogger]

Before I got into trialing, most of my dogs were expected to hunt all day, or at least for a half day, several days per week. The dogs I had were trial bred, sometimes rejects or leftovers, but pretty much all had trial breeding close up. They all hunted pretty hard and had fairly wide ground application, certainly on the order of what might be expected of an ambitious walking shooting dog of today, because that is what I was used to and what I wanted to see. Most of the folks i hunted with thought my dogs ran too big, but most were quite happy when the dog stood on point for the five minutes it took for them to walk/jog to the point. Funny thing was, they didn't often say the dog ran too big after walking to a couple points. But I digress....

Man does this sound familiar and bring back memories!!!

Charlie

[bumper52]

It was funny....back in the good ole days we hunted dogs hard. These dogs were fed food far inferior to today's premium foods. We really never conditioned our dogs; they pretty much sat around all year until hunting season opened. We lived on a farm and our dogs were better conditioned than most. Short of a leg or paw injury, they hunted. Today, things have changed. Probably because most of us do not hunt as much. Maybe we tend to "baby" our dogs a bit. But any hunting dog worth anything, should be able to hunt all day long on consecutive days. Yes, they need to be conditioned, but there isn't anything that conditions a dog for hunting long, than actually hunting. Especially when they are in their prime, hunt em hard, hunt em often. That's what they were bred to do.

[Montana]

My dogs don't know the meaning of the word quit, but........................ I've found that after about 2 hours the fatigue factor shows up in somewhat subtle ways. They start missing birds here and there, they get a little careless, etc.. It's really no different than a human who is tired....they start making poor decisions.

[LincolnAlexander]

He commented that the dog initially went big time for two or three hours at a clip and was pretty wiped out when he got home. Over the course of the seaosn, the dog's initial burst of speed got shorter and shorter and his pace slowed down some. By the end of the season, he was hunting for several hours at a clip and still had a little play left in him for my grandson when they got home.

This is exactly what I saw with my guy... he was using to running full out for 30 minutes or so in training/testing so when we took him hunting the first few times he ran his heart out, but eventually would have to slow down and by the end of the day was completely wiped out. Now he seems to be able to tell the difference between the two and paces himself very nicely for a full day of hunting but will run like crazy when training/testing.

[TRoberts]

It was funny....back in the good ole days we hunted dogs hard. These dogs were fed food far inferior to today's premium foods. We really never conditioned our dogs; they pretty much sat around all year until hunting season opened. We lived on a farm and our dogs were better conditioned than most. Short of a leg or paw injury, they hunted. Today, things have changed. Probably because most of us do not hunt as much. Maybe we tend to "baby" our dogs a bit. But any hunting dog worth anything, should be able to hunt all day long on consecutive days. Yes, they need to be conditioned, but there isn't anything that conditions a dog for hunting long, than actually hunting. Especially when they are in their prime, hunt em hard, hunt em often. That's what they were bred to do.

Ain't it the truth! I was thinking the same thing.....