Advice for 1st time Derby

[Gertie]

Hey there. I'm running my 10 mo. old pup in her first derby on Sunday (AKC). It'll be my first time handling in a derby and her first time running (yup, we're green as heck). I know some of you have been at this game for a long time and I would be interested to hear any tips or advice you might be willing to pass on. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say. Thanks!

[jetjockey]

I'd say just have fun and enjoy yourself and don't take it too seriously. It's a fun game, you win some and you lose some.. And don't try to over handle the dog. I was in your shoes not too long ago. I've learned a LOT just by watching, listening, and asking the occasional question. HB or walking trial?

[jcbuttry8]

Good luck. Hope the pup runs great.

When I ran in my first derby, I was told to not over handle the pup and once she gets a point on bird, shut up and let her run. She will have done all she needs to do.

Have fun,

Joe

[brad27]

It will be the same as puppy except the dog points a bird and you fire a blank. Have fun. Don't get nervous ( I know its hard not too .) Let the judges know that your are a "green" handler. Most of the time they will give you advice and help you during the stake. Oh, and walk or ride as many of the derby braces as you can. You can learn alot just by watching other dogs run and seeing how the handlers handel said dogs.

[DonF]

Sunday? I have to come back home Saturday evening.

Nothing much is gonna change. Turn her loose, don't over handle, have fun. Thats it. She only has to establish a point.

[Buckeye_V]

Remember to call point when you see your dog go on point. Don't assume the judge is watching every mili-second of the run. They should but crap happens.

Keep her in the pocket and then keep your mouth shut and have fun!

[PntrRookie]

She only has to establish a point.

Hey Don...and others...is that a derby requirement in AKC, to secure a placement? In AF a derby can be placed without pointing.

[bb560m]

She only has to establish a point.

Hey Don...and others...is that a derby requirement in AKC, to secure a placement? In AF a derby can be placed without pointing.

They must point in AKC derby.

[ultracarry]

It is

[Buckeye_V]

Not to hijack the post, but one of the things I have NEVER and will NEVER understand about AF Derby requirements. The rules or so danged loosey goosey it makes no sense. You can put them up on run and application alone, but if they do have a bird, it had better be broke if it's a certain age but not a requirement of others. Geeze. make up the mind!

[PntrRookie]

...You can put them up on run and application alone, but if they do have a bird, it had better be broke if it's a certain age but not a requirement of others...

That would be the fault of the judge, because if he/she did have a better animal that was unbroke, they better pick the better animal.

[Buckeye_V]

You would think, but let's not hijack any further. I aint as bullheaded as some others on here

[PntrRookie]

= Buckeye_V

1st time derby...take time to enjoy WATCHING your dog. If your dog is making a nice big move at the end (last 5-8 minutes) SHUT UP and let it roll! Finish strong

[Sharon]

I'd say just have fun and enjoy yourself and don't take it too seriously. It's a fun game, you win some and you lose some.. And don't try to over handle the dog. I was in your shoes not too long ago. I've learned a LOT just by watching, listening, and asking the occasional question. HB or walking trial?

x2
Don't hack at the dog because you are nervous; let him show what he's got. Don't say , "whoa,whoa,whoa .............." when he's on point.That tells the Judge that you are not sure he will be staunch. ( You must point to be placed in AF.)
Realize that yes there are basic requirements for a derby dog ,but the more highlyr trained derby dog will place if he remembers his lessons. I have a great memory of my first AF derby event. My dog was steady to shot and flush. I didn't even know she could do this. There was a call back and she beat the dog of the pro who had helped mentor me.
Sweet memories.

[mudhunter]

Not to hijack the post, but one of the things I have NEVER and will NEVER understand about AF Derby requirements. The rules or so danged loosey goosey it makes no sense. You can put them up on run and application alone, but if they do have a bird, it had better be broke if it's a certain age but not a requirement of others. Geeze. make up the mind!

I very much prefer the AF standard and would never let me derby age dogs compete in an AKC derby stake, at that age I am working on steadying and would not want them running against totally unbroke dogs.

Relax and enjoy showing your dog off! if your nervous the dog will pick up on it so try to be relaxed.

[Sharon]

I figure my derby dog best get use to the real world. At all levels there is the possibility of a dog stealing his point or running in on the birds.

[bb560m]

If you want to get to gun dog you shouldn't run too many derbies. Teaches them bad habits. Let's them catch birds and you never know WTF you're going to be braced with. I've seen some dogs attacked.

[DonF]

Quite a number of years ago, Clay Brown, Lemschlog Kennels, had a female he ran in every derby he could. He knew better but he did it. Won every derby he was in. Tremendious feat but he never could get the dog broke after that. Clay has had some really nice dogs.

[LBH]

Keep her to the front.

[Cajun Casey]

Everybody needs a potty stop before their brace.

[Gertie]

Thanks for the advice folks! I don't know who's dog that was that I ran yesterday in the puppy trial but it sure as heck couldn't have been Gertie. She played grab a$$ with the other puppy half the trial and the other half I was doing all I could to get her out 50 yards. I'm not sure what the heck happened. All I can figure is that she's used to running in the desert and this trial was in a wet field with 2-3' tall grass and she just didn't get that we were there to look for birds. Oh well, puppies I guess :roll: Anyway, hopefully the derby goes better. Thanks again.

[TChism]

Keep your chin up. I will bet he does better next time. My dog did the same thing in an all age derby stake, except he didn't have a bracemate. The next day I ran him in the derby (shooting dog standards) and he was a totally differnet dog. Placed 2nd.



My mentor told me to enter him in as many stakes as I can afford in any given weekend. Its good experience for the dog and the handler.

[Sharon]

The Champions do well no matter what commotion is around them. That's one thing that molds a Champion.
Almost all other dogs are negatively influenced by the commotion , the coffee smells . that other dog , the horse, the people in the gallery , etc.
It wise to occasionally train under similar circumstances. This is one good reason to be a part of a club.

PS I just watched 28 hours of golf since Thurs.; my opinion here may be totally warped.

[TChism]

I totally agree Sharon. I train like that, but still puppies are puppies. And sometimes they do puppy things, that just make you shake your head.

I also find it much more enjoyable to train with others. Especially when they are much more experienced than I.

I always run my dog in a brace during training. Sometimes we have two handlers with 2-4 dogs down. Sometimes we have three handlers, each having a dog down. It just depends on which dogs, how much time we have, and what we are trying to accomplish. Sometimes we (our training group) run totally unbroke puppies with a RU Ch. just to proof the broke dog.

On a rather fun day, there were 5 of us on horses. On any given brace we would have 3 or 4 handlers each running a derby at the same time. That was a free for all riot. I also believe it was good for the dogs as they had to sort out all the extra comotion.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

I'm not much into trialing puppies so I sent my soon to be 4 yr old dog,Storm with my trainer/handler this spring to get trial experience.We knew he wasn't ready to win but needed trial experience & exposure to all the trial confusion.He ran in 4 stakes I believe & got around clean in the last one.
Chris said he will be ready to win this fall actually Storm surprised him!!

[Gertie]

Thanks guys (and gals). It was frustrating. Especially when we got home and went out to train yesterday and she ran great. I think she was confused by the different cover and just a different scene. Maybe I'm glutton for punishment but I think I'm going to run her on the same grounds in a trial next weekend. I'm just looking at it as training and trial exposure at this point.

[Chukar12]

I am guessing if you went from desert to irrigated or wetlands...that gets confusing
I think a couple of my stud dogs pups were in that trial Gertie...was it the Oregon Britt Club walking trial?

[bb560m]

Thanks guys (and gals). It was frustrating. Especially when we got home and went out to train yesterday and she ran great. I think she was confused by the different cover and just a different scene. Maybe I'm glutton for punishment but I think I'm going to run her on the same grounds in a trial next weekend. I'm just looking at it as training and trial exposure at this point.

Do you let her free run or play on similar rounds with no birds? I've found the biggest change with my dog was when I stopped letting him play with other dogs besides in the house and anytime I let him loose in a field he found birds. Now he knows if he goes in the car and we let him run - it's time to find birds and they are out there...

[Gertie]

I am guessing if you went from desert to irrigated or wetlands...that gets confusing
I think a couple of my stud dogs pups were in that trial Gertie...was it the Oregon Britt Club walking trial?

That is exactly the trial we were at and exactly the situation we were in. The grass on the puppy field was a couple feet tall and there was a big wet section in the middle. I don't think she had a clue we were there to look for birds. There were sure some nice Brits there though. Which ones were yours?

I'm going to have to look around here for grounds to train on that are similar if I'm going to continue to try and trial on the "wet side" of the mountains. I've been training in the sage brush here, wetlands are hard to come by in the desert

[jcbuttry8]

Kona did the same thing her first two trials. I called her my training princess. She did it right in training and then wouldn't go at the trials. I just kept running her and She figured it out.

I know that there will be some kick back, but I used an older experienced dog to break her off with. Did that for a month and never had a grab a$$ problem. You put her on the line and she just goes. Doesn't even mess with the other dog.

I put her in one AKC Derby and swore never again. Fortunately we only lost about 2 to 3 weeks of training. From then on, I just ran her in puppy stakes without birds. Used them to get her used to being controlled during the trial excitement. Good luck and you will do fine.

M2C,

Joe

[Francois P vd Walt]

Remember to breathe and enjoy your dog !

Let the dog run and work to his/her fullest potential on the day, only talk/command your dog if it can cost you to be kicked out. They know how to hunt and what to do .......

If you get out and the dog doesnt peform make sure your body language is negative towards the dog, they learn in trials you are not going to fight with them. By showing you are not happy with the bad behavior will help in the long run if you are going to keep on trialing !

[Buckeye_V]

AKC young dog stakes can be a very good thing. Just understand what your risks and gains are and be prepared to address either. You can lose way more than you gain if you are not careful. Lots of caught birds, grabbie woth the bracemate, tagging, etc. Just protect YOUR dog the best you know how.