Setter Endurance

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JoshHaker
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Setter Endurance

Post by JoshHaker » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:42 pm

How do English setters rank on the endurance scale? I hunt here in Florida and heat can really be an issue. If the coat is kept short is their endurance similar to a pointer?

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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by PntrRookie » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:50 pm

In "general" the breed, as a whole is probably behind the pointer. BUT, there are a LOT of setters with excellent heat tolerance and there are a TON of pointers that cant take the heat (I have one). I was once told that just because a setter is born, raised, run in the south doesn't mean they handle the heat better (but many do!). All about breeding...not the hair. keeping them shaved is good, but doesn't raise them to the pointer level.

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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by northern cajun » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:04 pm

JoshHaker wrote:How do English setters rank on the endurance scale? I hunt here in Florida and heat can really be an issue. If the coat is kept short is their endurance similar to a pointer?

I would get a pointer or a shorthair although I see setter here in La. and its gets pretty dang hot here. Conditioning is key, good genetics doesn't hurt.
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AzDoggin
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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by AzDoggin » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:09 pm

Charles Sherrod of High Cotton Llewellns has setters that can run in the heat. http://www.highcottonllewellins.com/

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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by birddog1968 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:14 pm

I believe among other things heart has alot to do with dogs working in extremes....
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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by gotpointers » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:24 am

I have had to move my german longhairs and my labs to the north side of my barn for the summer. I wont run them this time of year. My english setters and english pointers are not phased at all with our 98 degree heat. I was going to shave the setters but they don't seem to need it.

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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by SetterNut » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:26 am

AzDoggin wrote:Charles Sherrod of High Cotton Llewellns has setters that can run in the heat. http://www.highcottonllewellins.com/
I have one of Charles dogs. He handles the heat well and has placed in a hot weather trial against pointers.
Now my other setter does not handle the heat as well. Think it has a look to do with the breeding.

You see the same thing in pointers, some take the heat well, others not so much.
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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by DonF » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:03 am

Is it just heat or heat and humidity? The humidity make heat much worse. I doubt that a human could stay with even an average settewr in the heat. I used to train my trial dogs in 100* weather all I could, dry heat. When it got hot a trials, my dogs handled it well. Secret to running dogs in the heat is water barrel's for them to get in. No water barrels and the dog burns up to fast.

I have been to Florida several times in the early fall. I have no idea how anything can live in that climate.
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JoshHaker
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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by JoshHaker » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:07 am

gotpointers wrote:I have had to move my german longhairs and my labs to the north side of my barn for the summer. I wont run them this time of year. My english setters and english pointers are not phased at all with our 98 degree heat. I was going to shave the setters but they don't seem to need it.

How do your setters compare in hunting endurance.

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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by highcotton » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:53 am

I agree that heart plays a role in running in hot conditions. However running in the heat and finding birds in the heat are two different things. A dog with a big heart may tough it out well in the heat but that dog can't scent birds when he is gasping for air. The key is breeding and conditioning. A true heat tollerant dog will have a smooth, almost effortless, gait. An easy gaited dog won't hassle for breath and they will find birds when the big hearted dog is doing nothing but running. Don't get me wrong. I love a big hearted dog but that alone won't put birds in the bag. I also think lighter colored dogs have an edge.

In Alabama we cant use a dog that can't find birds in the heat.

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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by dan v » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:42 am

I've heard some people use a number...temp + humidity...and that determines a tolerance for heat.
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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by goldenpatch29 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:27 pm

highcotton wrote:I agree that heart plays a role in running in hot conditions. However running in the heat and finding birds in the heat are two different things. A dog with a big heart may tough it out well in the heat but that dog can't scent birds when he is gasping for air. The key is breeding and conditioning. A true heat tollerant dog will have a smooth, almost effortless, gait. An easy gaited dog won't hassle for breath and they will find birds when the big hearted dog is doing nothing but running. Don't get me wrong. I love a big hearted dog but that alone won't put birds in the bag. I also think lighter colored dogs have an edge.

In Alabama we cant use a dog that can't find birds in the heat.
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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by tommyboy72 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:04 pm

108 degrees with a 14mph wind here today fellas. It is so hot I completely thawed 3 completely rock hard solid frozen steaks outside in about 20 minutes. It is so hot and dry that earlier when I went to the convenience store to get beer that I decided to wash the windshield with the sqeegees they provide at every service station and after applying the soapy water to half the windshield it was dry by the time I could flip over to start sqeegeeing the window off. I don't care how heat tolerant your dogs are that's too "bleep" hot. I run mine mid 90's and below and have horse tanks they can cool off in after we finish running. I got a young dog kenneled up now because she is in heat but I have a sprinkler going on half her kennel to keep the concrete cool and to give her some relief. I had a setter here for several years and she had a fantastic nose and looked really stylish on point but she just could not handle the heat like my pointers do. She was born and bred in North Carolina out of Tekoa Mountain Sunrise back in 2000 but I brought her back out here with me when I moved back to Oklahoma. I got her at 6 weeks old and raised her from a pup. So she pretty much grew up out here. She had a huge heart but just did not have the heat tolerance. I usually had to stop her before she would give up because I was afraid she was going to have a heat stroke while the pointers were still going strong. Shaving her down did help though.

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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by DonF » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:14 pm

There's one thing you should always keep in mind about your dog, no matter the size of his heart. The more desire the dog has to go, the less it will worry about it'self. You really have to watcch and know when the dog is just running on heart. Doesn't matter if it's still wanting to go, pick it up and submurge it in water. If all you have with you is one small drinking water bottle, pour it on his chest asnd belly. You don't cool down a dog giving it a drink or pouring water on it's head.
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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by prairiefirepointers » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:19 pm

It was 108 at 3pm here in Pretty Prairie today. I concur that when its that hot out my dogs don't do anything but rest. I had a young dog go down with a hypoglycemic seizure last summer. It was during the late evening and we wern't doing too much. I had picked the dog up and was givin her an "Atta girl" then I put the dog down and she started seizing and foaming at the mouth. Scared the bejezus out of me. :|
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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:45 pm

DonF wrote:There's one thing you should always keep in mind about your dog, no matter the size of his heart. The more desire the dog has to go, the less it will worry about it'self. You really have to watcch and know when the dog is just running on heart. Doesn't matter if it's still wanting to go, pick it up and submurge it in water. If all you have with you is one small drinking water bottle, pour it on his chest asnd belly. You don't cool down a dog giving it a drink or pouring water on it's head.
Well noted!
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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by gotpointers » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:12 pm

JoshHaker wrote:
gotpointers wrote:I have had to move my german longhairs and my labs to the north side of my barn for the summer. I wont run them this time of year. My english setters and english pointers are not phased at all with our 98 degree heat. I was going to shave the setters but they don't seem to need it.

How do your setters compare in hunting endurance.
They are near equal, i would say the pointers have a very slight edge. It really comes down to heart, conditioning and genetics. I would think Florida would have some heavy cover. If you want nose and endurance i would look at getting a pup out of a recent grouse woods winner. They will still adapt out west also. My Stone Tavern Matrix son is my favorite setter.

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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by gmanksu » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:46 pm

I would say there is a lot of genetic predisposition to be better in the heat. However, I will say that conditioning and body condition that dog is in has a lot to do with it. If the dog is too heavy then it will heat up quicker, if it is out of shape it will heat up quicker. Getting your dogs in condition and keeping them in the proper body condition will help them be better in the heat, some will be better than others.

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Re: Setter Endurance

Post by Ruffshooter » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:24 am

Agree with all of what has been said,
Genetics are #1.
Conditioning is #2.


Just for example about one of my dogs:
Mercy GSP.
Weight low fifties.
Solid Liver color.

When we were getting ready for the NAVHDA VC in MO a few years back I started in the spring working on her conditioning along with one of my French brits Buster.

We would road off the ATV each morning at 4:30am worked starting from 20 min. up to 1.5 hours of 12 mile an hour running.
Then we would do swims every other evening, those would be for 15 to 20 min.
We eventually started working in the evenings when it was warmer, during the runs, starting shorter times and working the time up to about 45 in to an hour. It was in the 70's to mid 80's. Then I started those runs earlier when it was warmer.

Anyway, come VC in MO. the day she ran was in the mid 80's High sunny day with tall cover. The field work was and hour, we ended up with an extra 10 min or so. We ran with a PP that was fairly large and wicked hairy. I was concerned about that dog and mine, being from the north. Those two dogs ran hard in the field work, both looked fresh as a daisy when all was done.

Took a lot of work. But made a huge difference. Now Buster the French Brit did not do so well on the warmer runs he did not have the heart for working that hard for "nothing" so to speak for him. Ironically during the fall hunts there is no stopping that dog.

Moral to the story, Genetics, conditioning, heart. but like Don said some of the dog that are not balanced will run themselves to death. I have seen it in a few dogs but one setter that died.

Rick
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Rick

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