Birddog Jamboree, Update June 30.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:23 pm

We've been working away and have been making some progress. So far this is where we're at.

Location:
Ka-Tonka Game Preserve and Sporting Clays; New London, Missouri (northeast part of the state) - http://www.katonkaclaysports.com/

Date:
March 15-17, 2013.

Purpose:
Illinois Birddog Rescue has rescue has been selected as the beneficiary of this year's event, but if we can make this an annual event then we'd like to have a different beneficiary every year.

Events:
* Fun Trial
* Sanctioned Trials (in the process of trying to arrange this)
* Purdiest Dog Show
* Birddog Olympics - Whoa contest, heeling contest, fetch contest, water retreive contest, birddog race, etc.
* More to come!

Other Attractions:
* Dez Young and Dash with be present
* Professional trainers will be on-site with live birds for private consulting and will be doing demonstrations/clinics - trainers that have committed are Mark Fulmer of Sarahsetter Kennels and Dan Ruffcorn of Ruffcorn Kennels, who is actually a GDF membera; others have shown interest, but not committed so I'd rather not post their names. If they want to post their name, then they can below.
* Designated training field will be available to attendees for training along with live birds for sale (we're in the process of trying to get equipment donated for the attendees to try out/sample, i.e. launchers, eCollars, etc.)
* Guest speaker on tick-born illnesses
* Auction - There will be an theme for birddog gear, but anything can be auctioned - If you're not going to be there you can send in your equipment for us to auction for you then send you the proceeds
* Professional photographer will be present to take photos of your dog with you or on point
* Professional sporting clay course (possibly a professional shooting coach will be present)
* The event will be covered by PDJ
* Television programs have expressed interest in shooting an episode at the event
* Vendors from a very, VERY broad selection of industries are expected to be present.

If you have any questions, just ask. Any of this stuff could change or be excluded and we have tons more we're planning to add as time rolls on.

GunDogDreamer247 · Post by **GunDogDreamer247** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:39 pm

Sounds like lots of fun! Wish I was closer!

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:57 pm

Price of admission, and can I bring my kids and run them in the trials too? Well, at least bring em

Corry

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:21 pm

These are the projected prices:

Gold Level Sponsorship: $3,000
Silver Level Sponsorship: $1,500
Field Level Sponsorship (basic vendors): $300
Admissions: $30

We're planning on having group/family discounts as well as discount pricing for people who book ahead of time. The admissions price is more than we really want to charge, but if we can get the support from sponsors then we'd like to drop that price. Ideally we'd made a ton of money from sponsors and just open admission up and let anyone come for free.

These prices are pretty well solidified, but the discounts will probably be one of the next things we consider and make official. I'll keep you posted.

You can also join us on Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/119589704848973/

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:05 am

So why hasn't this event been noted on IBDR's pages? Plus, that's a lot of cash for sponsers associated with hunting dogs to fork over to support an organization that brags it places in excess of 90% of its animals in non-hunting homes. Is IBDR even solvent? Last year she was going to dissolve the organization and threatened to put down her "difficult fosters." I notice she still has her diatribe against Miller on the website.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:28 am

Felicia, most of what you mentioned above are rumors. IBR is a strong organizaiton and goes out of their way to house birddogs. They are nowhere near the verge of throwing in the towel and if you knew Lisa you'd know there was ZERO chance she would put down any dog that wasn't beyond the point of return.

As far as her placement rate, 90% placement in non-hunting homes may seem like a lot, but when you consider that even some of the best bred dogs in the country are not being bought, is it any wonder that the rescues are having a hard time placing dogs in hunting homes? If there were ten dogs, nine pet homes and one hunting home and it was either nine of those dogs went to pet homes or no home at all, I'd rather they went to pet homes. Remember, IBR is a birddog "rescue," not a birddog "brokerage." I know breeders who are placing dogs with pet homes. One I can think of off had is the president of a state field trial organization.

They took a Setter I rescued from the pound a couple years ago and were extremely dilligent in getting him taken care of and transfered to their care and into a permanent home within a matter of weeks. He didn't go to a hunting how, but the pound held him beyond the euthenasia date on my request (I had to travel to pick him up) and now he's living on the California coast. It'd be nice if he was worked or hunted, but I don't exactly feel that bad for him. This dog has it made in the shade. http://www.ibrrowdy.blogspot.com/

If anyone believes IBR is trying to steer away from the hunting aspect of the breed, they should consider that IBR even has a website dedicated to birddog training. http://ibr-training.blogspot.com/

The only reason I can give you for no news on their Facebook page is that we just made the deal official today. The team has been debating and discussing different organizations to benefit and a vote the other night finally solidified the decision to offer IBR the beneficiaryship. If we generate enough interest to try a go at an annual event then we will most likely select a new beneficiary each year. If you have any doubts or anything, you can drop Lisa a message on Facebook or post to the IBR Facebook page.

Do you have a link to the rant on Miller dogs?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:04 am

Everything I mentioned is on her website or her Facebook page. I think if you're asking people to shell out significant sums of money, they should know what they are supporting. As far as field training, they primarily target AKC Hunt Tests.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:31 am

I never heard of the organization and checked it there site, I don't know but a few things they say almost seem like they are an "anti-hunting" rescue, or at like that is the sense that I got. Not one positive thing was said about hunting dogs yet they have no problem with comments like this:

Perhaps some weren't winning enough in Field Trials, maybe some became too old to hunt or to have litters of puppies, but many were gun shy and most had suffered from neglect or abuse.

If you don't believe this is the case, maybe you should mention that in return for the donations these things should be removed and some pro-hunting words be written on their site, my belief is they would never allow that. I also noticed on their adoption application you had to note your training methods: prong-collars, choke chains, shock collars, are these unacceptable methods?

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:06 am

The organization is a good one and find good homes for their dogs. A BIG, BIG chunk of the dogs they take in are the bi-product of working and field trial kennels that take anything that doesn't make the cut and gets rid of them, whether they shoot them, drop them down a dirt road or whatever. It's not hard to find trialers or breeders who have no problem saying that if a dog isn't perform or producing then they're nothing but added expense on the feed bill. These dogs that don't perform or produce are the ones that end up at places like IBR. The organization is a little gun shy about this because they deal with it so much and just does not want to recycle dogs back into a situation like that.

It's understandable to be wary of two-faced organizations, but if this organization was sincerely anti-hunting why would they have "testing" days for their dogs, work with trainers to get their dogs worked on birds and adopt dogs to hunting homes at all?

Garrison · Post by **Garrison** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:11 am

Stoneface wrote:The organization is a good one and find good homes for their dogs. A BIG, BIG chunk of the dogs they take in are the bi-product of working and field trial kennels that take anything that doesn't make the cut and gets rid of them, whether they shoot them, drop them down a dirt road or whatever. It's not hard to find trialers or breeders who have no problem saying that if a dog isn't perform or producing then they're nothing but added expense on the feed bill. These dogs that don't perform or produce are the ones that end up at places like IBR. The organization is a little gun shy about this because they deal with it so much and just does not want to recycle dogs back into a situation like that.

It's understandable to be wary of two-faced organizations, but if this organization was sincerely anti-hunting why would they have "testing" days for their dogs, work with trainers to get their dogs worked on birds and adopt dogs to hunting homes at all?

Why would a trainer that put thousands of dollars in birds, feed and man hours dump a dog when he could sell it as a finished dog to a hunting home for a good chunk of money? Set the Kool Aid down and think about what you just said.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:12 am

Stoneface wrote:The organization is a good one and find good homes for their dogs. A BIG, BIG chunk of the dogs they take in are the bi-product of working and field trial kennels that take anything that doesn't make the cut and gets rid of them, whether they shoot them, drop them down a dirt road or whatever.

Working and field trial kennels? Dropping dogs off down dirt roads? Man this keeps getting better.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:44 am

Stoneface wrote:The organization is a good one and find good homes for their dogs. A BIG, BIG chunk of the dogs they take in are the bi-product of working and field trial kennels that take anything that doesn't make the cut and gets rid of them, whether they shoot them, drop them down a dirt road or whatever. It's not hard to find trialers or breeders who have no problem saying that if a dog isn't perform or producing then they're nothing but added expense on the feed bill. These dogs that don't perform or produce are the ones that end up at places like IBR. The organization is a little gun shy about this because they deal with it so much and just does not want to recycle dogs back into a situation like that.

It's understandable to be wary of two-faced organizations, but if this organization was sincerely anti-hunting why would they have "testing" days for their dogs, work with trainers to get their dogs worked on birds and adopt dogs to hunting homes at all?

I can't think of anyone that gives their dogs away let alone dump them in a road ditch. I know they do things differently in MO but that seems strange when there is always a market for hunting dogs.

Ezzy

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:57 am

Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer. However, that doesn't mean you have to feed the latter with a silver spoon.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:05 pm

Stoneface wrote:
As far as her placement rate, 90% placement in non-hunting homes may seem like a lot, but when you consider that even some of the best bred dogs in the country are not being bought, is it any wonder that the rescues are having a hard time placing dogs in hunting homes? If there were ten dogs, nine pet homes and one hunting home and it was either nine of those dogs went to pet homes or no home at all, I'd rather they went to pet homes. Remember, IBR is a birddog "rescue," not a birddog "brokerage." I know breeders who are placing dogs with pet homes. One I can think of off had is the president of a state field trial organization.

Their Facebook page says 99%, so you being a college educated guy, let me ask you this, what is the chances of 99% of hunting dogs being placed in "pet homes"? I would say its about the same my chances of winning the Powerball jackpot back to back to back while only buying one ticket. What I have seen is a anti-hunting organization, I can't imagine anyone who knows anything about hunting dogs who think its abuse to place a "hunting dog" in a "hunting home". You came to this site to ask about what to do to make this event successful, the obvious choice would be to give the donations to some other place, however you have become sucked into this organization and can't see it for what it is. You said it yourself this is a two-faced organization, think on that.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:18 pm

I'm not talking about finishing a dog, polishing him, trialing him and if he doesn't win you kick him out the door as you travel through the countryside. You guys have heard the stories, same as me, about trainers and breeders going to summer camp with eons of dogs and coming home with just handful. Unless they evaporated something happened at camp.

Just in the past year I've been offered more free dogs from nice lines than I can believe. Three Lester's Snowatch grand pups, a direct son of Cassique Boss, a Go Boy/Elhew dog, a dog from Barshoe breeding, a dog down from Grouse Ridge Reroy and Long Gone George, a no-name Britt, the day before last a friend offered to give me a five-year-old Shorthair bitch and one lady even wanted to give me a show-bred Pointer or two.

I had a friend in Oregon that wanted a second birddog now that his Shorthair is six. He said he didn't "have the big money to buy a fancy birddog" so he'd have to go without. I told him we could probably hook him up with a nice dog for free if he could pay the shipping. We had one located in about a day and he was at my house within a week. He just left for Oregon two days ago. He's going to be a PHENOMENAL birddog and I'm headed out in January to hunt over him. I'm considering him as a stud for Moxy. His sire is expected to win a championship soon, three of his aunts and uncles are national champions (if I'm remembering right) and his grandsire is a NC Gailen's Lotto. On the bottom he's Go Boy and Attitude with some Elhew mixed in.

A lot of birddogs, good and bad, wind up with no place to go. Those are the types of dogs that end up at IBR. I remember when we lived in southwest Nebraska we stopped by the local pound, which was an old vet's office, and it looked like a birddog kennel from all the dumped dogs they'd picked up. They said got a wave of them around bird season every years.

One other thing I'd like to add is that IBR plans on setting up an adoption booth at the event and offering the dogs for adoption to the hunters at the event. That's the first thing we talked about when we made the agreement.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:22 pm

No one is saying bird dogs don't end up in rescues, the BS part is where you talk about " most" coming from working and field trial kennels.

smoothbean · Post by **smoothbean** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:27 pm

I think there are a lot more ditch fill dogs than people like to admit.
Lets try to be a little more constructive and tell who would be a better choice in the future and why?

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:27 pm

nikegundog wrote:I also noticed on their adoption application you had to note your training methods: prong-collars, choke chains, shock collars

I use all of those tools so would I be unable to adopt a dog?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:36 pm

Thete is a big difference between drinking KoolAid and pouring it for others.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:45 pm

@ Coop. You're right, I appologize. I think I just used too loose wording. I didn't mean "kennels" as in bigger operations to single out kennels like Erin's, Blue Dawn, Grouse Ridge, etc. What I meant and should have said is basically people who breed birddogs for the field or competition.

@ Ron. I hope not! I use all those, too.

In fact I'll preach the benefits of a prong collar until the day I die.

Smoothie's right, though. This is an event for and by birddoggers and birddog community. If anyone has any suggestions for beneficiaries then, by all means, throw them out.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:08 pm

smoothbean wrote:I think there are a lot more ditch fill dogs than people like to admit.
Lets try to be a little more constructive and tell who would be a better choice in the future and why?

ProPlan Rally to Rescue, any vet school, any organization that promotes youth outdoors.....

SpinoneIllinois · Post by **SpinoneIllinois** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:12 pm

"ProPlan Rally to Rescue, any vet school, any organization that promotes youth outdoors....."

These are good.

smoothbean · Post by **smoothbean** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:20 pm

Good ideas Casey but I think the plan was to try to keep it toward birddog rescue. Got any ideas for those?
Are there any youth groups that the event could benefit to help get more youth involved in birddogs? I would love to find out because we need to get more people involved especially the youth as we all know they are the future of our sport and if we don't have them our sport doesn't have much of a future.

smoothbean · Post by **smoothbean** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:25 pm

How many people would raise holy heck if the event donated the proceeds to a vet school thinking that all they are going to do is use that money to get people to neuter their dogs. You know how touchy of a subject that is. If not search the old posts it won't take long to figure out.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:15 pm

smoothbean wrote:How many people would raise holy heck if the event donated the proceeds to a vet school thinking that all they are going to do is use that money to get people to neuter their dogs. You know how touchy of a subject that is. If not search the old posts it won't take long to figure out.

This is where education is necessary. There are many health research projects across the nation to choose from to support. The AKC CHF is a good place to start searching. On a further note, the reason many veterinarians support and endorse early spay/neuter is because they have been bombarded by propaganda from the animal rights educated rescue organizations.

smoothbean · Post by **smoothbean** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:22 pm

I am also neutral on the spay/neuter subject. I have had intact and fixed dogs that were great and know that there are fixed and intact dogs out there that don't amount to a hill of beans.
The AKC CHF is still pretty broad and not just geared towards birddogs. You can still find dirt on the AKC and lots of people might oppose them as well even though a large portion of us have dogs that areregistered through them. For example:
http://www.thedogpress.com/Editorials/0 ... C.HSUS.asp
I agree education is the key. Maybe we as hunters need to help to educate those that are not and this situation could be a great way to do that. This could be a chance to show those with different views that we do care about the dogs.
It is very difficult to make everyone happy when deciding where donations should be made. I am sure an argument can be made for or against any group that is picked but there will always be someone that disagrees with what you decide. We just have to hope that the dogs will benefit from the decision. Hopefully this event will be a huge success and will be an annual event. Then a different group can be picked every year. So again to all readers please feel free to give suggestions for different organizations that are in the future. Lets try to keep them birddog groups.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:27 pm

ACES. They require an indoor home, but are hunter friendly.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:39 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:ACES. They require an indoor home, but are hunter friendly.

So you are promoting a group that is telling us where we have to keep our dogs? I don't think so. Rescue groups are not doing their job till they start finding homes for the dogs and stop telling people how and what they can do with the dog. I don't want to rent a dog and have to look over my shoulder to see if the rescue police are coming.

Ezzy

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:47 pm

It does say this on the adoption terms page

[color=#FF0000ACES]ACES will not adopt our English Setters out for hunting purposes.[/color]

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:04 pm

ACES also say:

◦ACES does not adopt to households with unaltered pets. All pets in the adoptive home must be current on vaccinations (or have annual titers) and must see a vet on an annual basis.
◦ACES English Setters must never be allowed off leash unless within a fully fenced, secure area. No amount of training will guarantee that a setter can ever be safe off leash when unconfined. Failure to keep a setter safe on leash or in a securely fenced area may result in serious injury or death.

The thing is you'll probably never find a rescue that is 100% in accordance to what we all want. Unless it's a pound, you're going to go through a screening process and probably not be able to adopt a dog if you want to house him in a kennel. I do appreciate Felicia's effort, though, and posting a specific, birddog organization. I think we're headed in the right direction.

Does anyone else have any birddog-charity specific organizations they could recommend?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:36 pm

birddog1968 wrote:It does say this on the adoption terms page

[color=#FF0000ACES]ACES will not adopt our English Setters out for hunting purposes.[/color]

Now, now.

Here's the direct quote.
ACES setters will not be adopted out solely for hunting purposes. All ACES dogs will be placed in homes where they will be kept indoors with the family.

This was an alternative to IDBR, not an endorsement for their policies. I know several people with ACES dogs. I've never seen ACES have a Facebook meltdown and threaten to kill their dogs, either.

As far as others telling "us" what to do with our dogs, some people need to wake up and smell the BS. There are tethering and crating laws that barely exempt event dogs. There are time outside laws (seriously). There are alteration laws and limit laws and all of them came into being because the lunatic fringe got their day in the legislature or the council and some people thought it was no big deal and wouldn't affect them and they would just go along and do as they wanted anyway.

WRONG.

If you don't believe me, hide and watch.

CHJIII · Post by **CHJIII** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:22 pm

I fostered for ACES for several years. They knew I hunted, they knew I had other breeds. They came and inspected my home and facilities. What they really wanted was a petsafe home, where the dogs would be loved and respected.

They ran so many setters through my home and some stayed for a few days some for a few months. I had one go to Cape Cod for a great life. I had another that went to Colorado to a guy who took him to work everyday on construction sites. That dog would have made a great bird dog.

Every organization is gonna have their ways. Find the ones you like and help them. The ones you don't like, heck their still helping dogs for the most part. If they do a service for any dog, who are we to complain?

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:02 am

Ohhh man what a train wreck!

They sound like a anti hunting org. .....

Stone I have 20 acres of ocean front property in Nevada ill sell you.... Do you really believe that these pro trainers fill ditches with dogs they have received money for from a owner? Really? Yea I heard some people do that too but I can actually tell when a few people are full of cow turds.

Hope you make a lot of money and give it to someone who is trying to shut down the use of dogs for hinting purposes. Seeing as though that's what you decided to make a living at it would almost be like taking food out of tour familys mouth.. those dogs could go to potential customers....

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:23 am

Stoneface....Thank you for making an effort to help the the dogs!! A lot of people get "tangled up in their underware" debating good agencys, bad agencys, ugley agencys, yada, yada, yada. The point is, your a dooer, not just a talker. I have been donating my time and money to NBRAN for the past year and from where I sit, abuse comes in all shapes and sizes and from all walks of life. The old saying is 10% of the people do 90% of the work.....I think it is closer to 5% - 95%.

Good Luck with your efforts, it's nice to know your a 5%er........

bigdaddy · Post by **bigdaddy** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:57 am

Just to present the it does happen side of things...

I have a dog livng in my home that was found in the woods of Alabama. No collar. She had obviously had some trainng as she quarters on a whistle. She was also obviously abused, 8 years later and she still expects to be hit when she is called. She also has a nose like a brick. Has walked right over pheasant in the field. Obviously, I'll never know for sure, but it is pretty clear that she wasn't up to snuff and was cut loose in the woods.

I have read IBR's web site and exchanged emails with her. I would hardly classify it as an anti-hunting organization. The OP is trying to put together a fun event and help some dogs and all most of you can do is piss in his Wheaties. That's pretty "bleep" sad.

Garrison · Post by **Garrison** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:16 am

I think you would be hard pressed to find a person on this board who would think finding a dog a home either pet or hunting is not an honarable endeavor, but vilanizing the people you are trying to get money from is not a good plan.

I have a rescue that I am working with now, you can send all donations to PO Box.......

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:21 am

Garrison wrote:I think you would be hard pressed to find a person on this board who would think finding a dog a home either pet or hunting is not an honarable endeavor, but vilanizing the people you are trying to get money from is not a good plan.

I have a rescue that I am working with now, you can send all donations to PO Box.......

If anyone wants to pay the boarding tab for the pointer that was tossed out of a truck with the ID plate ripped off his collar, picked up by the lady who didn't understand how introduce him to her boxer, tested, neutered, stashed for nearly a year at my friend's place until the dog developed the habit of escaping to attend neighborhood barbecues, and finally sent to boarding at my trainer's, please do. Rescue wouldn't take him because he'd never been in a shelter. I will provide you with an 8 x 10 photo, just like those adopt a starving child in a third world nation places do.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:34 am

Cajun Casey wrote:
Garrison wrote:I think you would be hard pressed to find a person on this board who would think finding a dog a home either pet or hunting is not an honarable endeavor, but vilanizing the people you are trying to get money from is not a good plan.

I have a rescue that I am working with now, you can send all donations to PO Box.......
If anyone wants to pay the boarding tab for the pointer that was tossed out of a truck with the ID plate ripped off his collar, picked up by the lady who didn't understand how introduce him to her boxer, tested, neutered, stashed for nearly a year at my friend's place until the dog developed the habit of escaping to attend neighborhood barbecues, and finally sent to boarding at my trainer's, please do. Rescue wouldn't take him because he'd never been in a shelter. I will provide you with an 8 x 10 photo, just like those adopt a starving child in a third world nation places do.

Who saw the dog tossed out of a truck? Did the ID plate get caught on something or was it cut off? Sounds like a story but I am sure it happens. Don't know what it has to do with this jamboree though.

Ezzy

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:41 am

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:Stoneface....Thank you for making an effort to help the the dogs!! A lot of people get "tangled up in their underware" debating good agencys, bad agencys, ugley agencys, yada, yada, yada. The point is, your a dooer, not just a talker. I have been donating my time and money to NBRAN for the past year and from where I sit, abuse comes in all shapes and sizes and from all walks of life. The old saying is 10% of the people do 90% of the work.....I think it is closer to 5% - 95%.

Good Luck with your efforts, it's nice to know your a 5%er........

+1

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:58 am

Ezzy, the lady who picked him up saw him get dumped. The plate was missing from his collar, but the brads were still in, but warped. PRO wouldn't take him without him going through the pound. I can get you documentation, if you like.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:45 pm

Our focus on adopting working hunters into pet homes help us dispel old wives tales passed on through generations of birddog owners and field trailers who think that all hunting dogs must live outdoors to keep their scenting abilities and that they also need their testicles and uteruses to be successful in the field. On the contrary, we have disproved these out of date ideals. All of our adoptables are spayed or neutered as required by the Illinois Department of Agriculture shelter regulations and all must live indoors as family pets as required by IBR’s hunting/pet home guidelines. This not only prevents unwanted pregnancies—but spaying and neutering prevents long term health issues like testicular cancer in males besides their desire to roam , and spaying females helps prevent mammary cancer. We hope that our successful adoptions of these altered homeless hunters will help educate the birddog public in that spaying or neutering a working hunter never lessens their desire to hunt. As a matter of fact these dogs are more focused as hunting companions. Also, living indoors (and in most cases on the furniture or in bed with their owners) has no negative affect on their bird scenting abilities. Our successful adoptions to hunting families where these dogs and puppies are treated as family pets also helps us promote that a dog with a strong bond to their owner is that much more confident, loyal and happy to work side by side with their master on upland birds. Thru patience, kindness and commitment, quality and expensive vetting protocols, many of our dogs regain their confidence in the IBR program and are back working in the field to the joy of their adopters.

This is from IBR's website. They don't come off as anti-hunting to me, although I do disagree with the message. I think they are trying to dispel an old wives tale that doesn't exist. I don't believe hunters keep their dogs intact because they think the dogs are going to be better hunters, they keep them intact because A) they want to avoid other health concerns that can occur with spay/neutering that the IBR doesn't mention and B) many hunters are interested in improving the hunting breeds and that's really hard to do if all the dogs are fixed. You can't truly know if a dog is going to improve the breed until it's been properly developed and examined and that can takes years.

Also, I think a better approach to requiring indoor living for the dogs is to look at how much time will be spent with the dog everyday. I'd assume that most hunters with out door dogs spend equal, if not more time exercising and working with their dogs that the average occasional hunter/indoor dog owner. Just because the dog sleeps in your bed doesn't mean you are giving the dog the attention/exercise it requires.

All in all, I think the IBR is well intentioned but could use an updated opinion on why hunters do the things they do. Maybe this event would be a good way to start educating them on why we do things the way we do and maybe they'll come around and begin to better understand how strong a relationship 99% of hunters have with their dogs no matter what training methods or housing situations they use or outlook on fixing their dogs they may have.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:02 pm

What you won't find on IBR's website or Facebook page is any mention of this event. Wonder why that is when they are constantly pleading for money and claim their funds are at an all time low?

Any time I have been involved with a fundraising effort, the beneficiary was on board from the get go.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:03 pm

Felicia, I'm not sure what you're shooting for, but it sounds like you're saying we're lying. Not sure what the point of that would be, but if you want to shoot Lisa a message on Facebook or post on their wall, asking if we're partnered for this, then you're more than welcome.

Here are the links:
Lisa's page - https://www.facebook.com/#!/lisa.spakowski
IBR's page - https://www.facebook.com/#!/ILbirddog

For that matter, you can look at my wall and see the message she just posted. Here's a link to my page: https://www.facebook.com/rowdy.harris?ref=tn_tnmn

Let me know if there are any other concerns.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:40 pm

Stoneface wrote:Felicia, I'm not sure what you're shooting for, but it sounds like you're saying we're lying. Not sure what the point of that would be, but if you want to shoot Lisa a message on Facebook or post on their wall, asking if we're partnered for this, then you're more than welcome.

Here are the links:
Lisa's page - https://www.facebook.com/#!/lisa.spakowski
IBR's page - https://www.facebook.com/#!/ILbirddog

For that matter, you can look at my wall and see the message she just posted. Here's a link to my page: https://www.facebook.com/rowdy.harris?ref=tn_tnmn

Let me know if there are any other concerns.

I don't believe your being called a lair, I believe Casey is pointing out the fact that IBR doesn't want to acknowledge to the public they are partnered with the Jamboree, maybe that's not the case, I hope they have some nice things to say about the Jamboree soon on their website.