This is only the second time in 30 years, the early day GSP never ranged further than 30m now we to get out to a mile or two !Nick Miles wrote:This is not the first time this has happened in South Africa. GSP's are regularly placed in British Breed Field Trials in South Africa. Certainly not the first time A GSP has won a Championship event in SA. A lot of terrain in South Africa is more suited to GSP's that EP's, hence the results.
Free State Klerksdorp.Soldaat wrote:Well said Nick, in which part of the country was the trial run. Congrats to the winning dog.
In the BB trials no retrieving just has to have a find, point, back, style and work rate, steady to shot and flush run by 2 dogs in a brace 5min to 10min rounds.Trekmoor wrote:Well done that dog and in fairness to the original poster a link was provided which stated this is the third G.S.P. to have achieved this win.
Isn't it about time you lads in S.A. stopped calling this a British field trial however ? In Britain Hunt-point- retrievers have not been allowed to compete in trials against pointers and setters for many years ....... maybe about half a century ? I'm not sure but it has certainly been a long time. Those early trials favoured the pointers and setters since they were usually held up on wide open grouse moors. It would have taken a very hard going GSP to win such a trial in that setting and as far as I am aware no GSP ever did win any of those trials . Michael Brander ( the man who wrote Britains first H-P-R book) did achieve a place in such a trial but did not win any. He told me himself he'd only competed in those trials in order to try to gain a stud book number for his dog (Kennel name is Dunpender) Back then G.S.P.'s and other continental breeds had no trials of their own in Britain.
Nowadays an H-P-R trial in Britain is held with just one dog running at a time. The ground the trial is held on can be anything at all from a grouse moor to marshland to turnip fields to woodlands with very thick brambles.........any kind of ground at all. HPR trials here could not be won by a pointer or setter not just because they would not handle the varying terrains too well but because they are never used as retrievers ....... except of the most basic kind and these breeds are never required to retrieve in one of their trials and would be put out of their trials if they did retrieve ! :roll:
Do the dogs in S.A. trials run in pairs ? Is retrieving required at those trials ? If the answer to either of those questions is "yes" then I think you should be entitled to call your "mixed breed" trials your own and not "British !"
Bill T.
Best wishes to all of you anyway.
[/quote]Francois P vd Walt wrote:now we to get out to a mile or two !
Thanks for your response Bill. All good points. However, bear in mind that here in SA we are not blessed with the numbers of contestants and dogs you have available in the US so we allow a bit more latitude on trial entries in order to get the field up and not turn people away. To a large extent we are still developing the sport here (even though our field trialling history dates back 100years) Some British Breed clubs even allow GSP's to join upTrekmoor wrote:Isn't it about time you lads in S.A. stopped calling this a British field trial however ? In Britain Hunt-point- retrievers have not been allowed to compete in trials against pointers and setters for many years ....... maybe about half a century ? I'm not sure but it has certainly been a long time. Those early trials favoured the pointers and setters since they were usually held up on wide open grouse moors.
In all seriousness, in the early years GSP's were nowhere near the range of EP's and they would hunt no further than an average spaniel, there has been a concerted effort to put some legs onto GSP's and certainly in SA we have seen a big increase in range over the past few years. There are some committed people bringing in some good dogs from the US, and the GSP's gene pool here is the better for it. The type of trials you are running just do not happen here in Britain. but they often do make 2-300 yard outruns on the right kind of ground - the grouse moors. Even 30 + years ago we had GSP's that would do that and a few of them could put up a good show against pointers and setters. Apologies for assuming you were in the US. I agree with you about the verstility, I also like a dog that can slow down and hunt the thicker stuff when needed too. I have seen a lot of EP's and GSP's (Brittanies too for that matter) that have a lot of run and are a little too fast for their noses. It's always a fine balance, and what one man loves another might heap scorn on. At the end of the day there is always one beautiful piece of work that brings you back whether you run EP's or Pointing Labs.Trekmoor wrote:Tom likes his big running dogs to also be good at dealing with and handling in what he calls in his Scottish accent .... "The wee ticht corners !" He claims that the ability to do that is a trial winner and I agree with him...... it is. The dog that can do that is truly versatile.
Bill T.
That's good to hear. In Britain birds are never "planted" just prior to a trial or during it. If the game is mainly pheasants they will have been released several months prior to the trial. If there are grey or English Partidge present then they are likely to have been born and raised in the wild. All other British game species , with the possible exception of mallard ducks, are wild birds.Nick Miles wrote:
By the way. British Breed Trials here are run on wild birds, as are the HPR Trials.
In BB or HPR trials a dog pointing fur will be credited with a point. In BB trials you could also fire a shot and prove your dog steady to shot and you would get credited with a shot as well. I've never heard of anyone shooting a rabbit in an HPR trial here - I should find out if it would be acceptable? Can't see why not.Trekmoor wrote:What happens in a S.A. trial if a GSP points on fur ? In Britain , the dog is credited with the point and will be required to retrieve it if the rabbit or hare is shot.
In Britain rabbits and hares are to be pointed by HPR breeds but in pointer/setter trials it is greatly preferred if the dogs do not point fur.
Bill T.
Sure. My dogs will retrieve rabbits as well. But what about in a trial Francois.Francois P vd Walt wrote:Our dogs retrieve rabbits, spurfowl in our country get up to 15kg and are much more of a challenge to retrieve ....
http://gsp-bullet.blogspot.com/search?u ... results=50Nick Miles wrote:Sure. My dogs will retrieve rabbits as well. But what about in a trial Francois.Francois P vd Walt wrote:Our dogs retrieve rabbits, spurfowl in our country get up to 15kg and are much more of a challenge to retrieve ....
15kg Spurfowl - !!! - Show me one? Spurfowl are no challenge for any birddog. You mean SpurWING Goose? Maybe? These are the biggest challenges to dogs at about 8kgs max.
