chasing game

katababa · Post by **katababa** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:57 pm

Hi,
I was wondering what the best way to break my 14 month old pup of chasing game? he's run after a couple of deer, never wonders far, but i don't want the deer running into the road and him following, you never know . ..
would an e collar work best, so that if he starts chasing while he's offlead, he gets zapped? is there a better way??
thanks!
kata

GSPinROCH · Post by **GSPinROCH** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:08 pm

Kataba,
I would have to say fundamentals. Work with your dog on come with distractions, always keeping on a check cord. find a local deer farm and ask the farmer if it's possible to bring the dog there to teach come while near deer. Also an e-collar is a great tool for teaching and bonding with the dog. the dog will eventually become accustomed to the collar coming out everytime you do training and or hunting, and it will get him excited to do that.
my two cents,
Chris

LSKGSPs · Post by **LSKGSPs** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:02 am

WHOA....BEWARE....CAUTION.....

An e-collar is an extension of the CC. It is NOT, repeat NOT a TEACHING OR BONDING TOOL!!!

Before you get an e-collar within 100 yards of your dog........do the CC training....learn how to integrate the e-collar with the CC.

You teach the dog with a CC ........You extend the CC with the e-collar with PROPER USE.

E-collars in the wrong or untrained hands ARE NOT THE SOLUTION. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!

"ROCH"....I apologize for being so strong in my response, but what you wrote are the words of a loving dog owner who has not had the opportunity to learn the uses and dangers of the e-collar.. Put your e-collar away.... it will "teach" your dog nothing. As for "Bonding"......Improper use of the e-collar will drive your dog away from you. If you want to "Bond" with your dog....let the dog get up on your lap and watch TV with you.

GSPinROCH · Post by **GSPinROCH** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:25 am

Understood, That was my intent with my post. I apologise I shall proof read better next time.

GSPinROCH · Post by **GSPinROCH** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:54 am

please dont let me burn any bridges with this post. I do believe e-collars can be used a good training/bonding tool. but I should have elaborated more on my last post. If used properly and safely, and yes as an extension of a cc. The reason I say its training/bonding tool is any of my past dogs that I have taken my old ecollar out of its box, they would be very excited to wear it b/c I think they knew they were going out to hunt. I also want to add that the different stimulation collars can be used to train deaf dogs as well as the beeper/ecoller combos can be used for numerous things out in the field like sit, blind retreieves depending on what tone you use to teach the dog. I hope that sums my thought process up and no one thinks any less of me.
chris

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:16 am

I would also like to add that the experience you described is the one place I use the collar to actually shock the dog and I don't worry about prior training other than the dog or pup knowing "Come". All I am teaching the dog is it is not comfortable to chase deer or to not Whoa or Come when the dog is approaching a road. I do not want to lose the dog or see it killed and those are the outcomes of too many trips where the dog doesn't listen. Other things and other times we can train but there are a few things that are serious enough to the dogs health that it get punished hard for doing and hopefully will learn not to ever do it again.

Ezzy

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:03 am

i am the same as ezzy. you can divide uses of the collar into two categories, training and trashbreaking. with training, you need to make sure the dog knows what is expected of it by non-collar training before you use the collar. with trashbreaking you do not, and in fact it is best not to do any prior non-collar work, because the dog might then view it as training.

trashbreaking is teaching avoidance, pure and simple. generally you can use the collar at a slightly higher setting than you would for training. if you train with a "3" then you can trashbreak with a "4". let the dog get into full chase and then hit it with the collar. don't say a thing. what the dog learns in effect, is that if he/she chases that deer it is going to bite.

you don't want to fry a young pup. wait until the dog is old enough to tolerate this. a year or more.

two years ago my current dog was bitten by two black angus, two deer, and would you believe it, a jackrabbit. i was sympathetic when she came back. told her those jackrabbits were pretty mean. she doesn't mess with any of them any more.

GSPinROCH · Post by **GSPinROCH** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:49 am

Thankyou, Wagonmaster and Ezzy for adding to what I was trying to say!
Trashbreaking is an awesome term to use. And I totally wanted it to come across the way you two have put it out. In terms of training and then trashbreaking. Basically teaching a conditioned response dont chase deer.
thankyou,
chris

LSKGSPs · Post by **LSKGSPs** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:24 am

Hey ROCH........I just got in after a long hot day (118degrees) trying to get a little work in with a few horses and a "HoneyDo" list. I saw that there were some follow up posts on the topic. A couple things:

1. You are not going to burn any bridges with your thoughts.

2. I owe you an apology. I responded to your comment about the "benefits" of the ecollar such as bonding etc, which (as you read I disagree with, and which you clarified later); but I did not respond to your basic question. I guess I focused on the potential dangerous use of e-collars rather than them being used as trashbreakers.

Snakes......Deer......and all sorts of other critters and situations are effectively handled using Wagon's guidelines. That is the only way to do it.

But still I urge caution in all cases when an ecollar is used. I once watched a guy try to teach a horse to ground tie with an ecollar........He hooked the collar around the horses neck......got on, rode around a bit, got off, tossed reins on ground and walked away. The instant the horse moved...he fried it. Despite warnings against doing that again, this process was repeated four times until the horse stood still. He went over and got on the horse, picked up reins and prepared to move out. THE HORSE DID NOT AND WOULD NOT MOVE. I kid you not....the horse refused to move any foot. Finally, after about an hour of urging, pushing, tugging and treats, the horse moved forward. It stopped, the "teacher" got on again....and the horse went straight up in the air on its' hind legs, dumped the "teacher" and ran off. After an hour or so of chase in the desert, I finally got a rope around its' neck and led it back to barn.

Take care and happy hunting.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:27 am

I think it is appropriate to teach people how to use an e-collar but I also know that many people are overly apprehensive about its use. Used properly it is no more dangerous than a CC used properly. Either used poorly can cause negative results but one mistake isn't going to ruin your dog in all likely hood. The example with the horse is a good example of why people are afraid to use them.. As the story goes when the horse moved he "fried it." Frying is not an acceptable thing to do with an E-collar but because it is electric people think that is the purpose of using one.

E-collars are nothing to shy away from if you use it correctly and responsibly. It is just another tool to use in training and probably one of the best and most effective tool we have. And used properly probably causes less trama to the dog than most other methods. E collars get the dogs attention and also can tell the dog it is uncomfortable to not do what is asked. When you are through training with it there are no bruises and the dog isnt afraid of you because you were abusive to it. In other words you are still the lovable master.

For those of you who want to respond to this post, I am not trying to say you should or shouldn't use a collar. We do know if you decide to use one do it gently and correctly. For those of you who don't like them you can train your dogs without them. But I do want to emphasize that a e-collar is nothing to be afraid of or is a tool that takes alot more skill to use than a pinch collar or any other tool. Just be sure to learn the proper use of any and all corrective tools before you use them and they will all work wonders. And the one time misuse will probably not hurt the dog so don't let that stop you from trying. None of us are perfect so learn and do your best and you will have fun and so will your dog.

In my opinion one of the weakest excuses for not doing something is "I might make a mistake". If that is true then no one would ever do anything. The people who see a need to do something, then learn as much as they can about it before using some common sense while trying something new are the people who are the leaders of the field. We call that progress.

Ezzy