In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

bb560m
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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by bb560m » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:09 am

3Britts wrote:Let's see. Shorthairs tend to orver run game, chew downed bird, and generally have noses that mislead. Britts tend to find game at any range, have soft mouths, and know the difference between "bleep" and game birds. You can also keep them in the house.
As for the "little groundhog, crack, even my smalles britt, Summer, tends to out run Shorthairs, Setters, and EPs at trials. 8)

Now back to the original question: Trials will show you the scope of the dog's run, its intensity, and something of its nose, but as has been mentioned before, it dogs do get DQ'd for relocating and other desirable hunting traits.
I've never seen a Britt win an all breed trial b/c they can't point... so whatever you think :).

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by Francois P vd Walt » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:43 am

IMO a good bird finder will do well in both trial and hunting ! Decipline makes the dogs excel in trials. Going to trials will give you a good idea what is out there.

Better for someone wanting a dog to go to some trials on a variety of breeds, that will help you decide on what you like.

Now I am gonna get popcorn and a coke ..........

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by ultracarry » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:03 pm

Huuummmmm... I wouldn't want my dog either. Dam trial dog made me $200 bucks this weekend as a guide dog at a pheasant perserve, when the season opens for quail I can take her hunting wild birds after (she is ok I guess) and then field trials come along and she seems to win a few of those also. Maybe she is worthy, but I don't care because she has proved she can do all I want her to do.

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by Vision » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:27 pm

Johng918 wrote:If I beat Kevin Van Dam fishing a stocked pond does that make a better fisherman?

Are you knocking trial dogs run on pen raised birds, or hunting dogs run on pen raised birds?

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by 3Britts » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:35 pm

bb560m wrote:
3Britts wrote:Let's see. Shorthairs tend to orver run game, chew downed bird, and generally have noses that mislead. Britts tend to find game at any range, have soft mouths, and know the difference between "bleep" and game birds. You can also keep them in the house.
As for the "little groundhog, crack, even my smalles britt, Summer, tends to out run Shorthairs, Setters, and EPs at trials. 8)

Now back to the original question: Trials will show you the scope of the dog's run, its intensity, and something of its nose, but as has been mentioned before, it dogs do get DQ'd for relocating and other desirable hunting traits.
I've never seen a Britt win an all breed trial b/c they can't point... so whatever you think :).
I would think that you haven't been to many all breed trials then.

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by bb560m » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:21 pm

3Britts wrote:I would think that you haven't been to many all breed trials then.
You would think so - unfortunately, I have...

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by ultracarry » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:19 pm

3Britts wrote:
bb560m wrote:
3Britts wrote:Let's see. Shorthairs tend to orver run game, chew downed bird, and generally have noses that mislead. Britts tend to find game at any range, have soft mouths, and know the difference between "bleep" and game birds. You can also keep them in the house.
As for the "little groundhog, crack, even my smalles britt, Summer, tends to out run Shorthairs, Setters, and EPs at trials. 8)

Now back to the original question: Trials will show you the scope of the dog's run, its intensity, and something of its nose, but as has been mentioned before, it dogs do get DQ'd for relocating and other desirable hunting traits.
I've never seen a Britt win an all breed trial b/c they can't point... so whatever you think :).
I would think that you haven't been to many all breed trials then.
What's your dogs win percentage in placements again? Don't see a link to remek vizslas or your dogs name in your signature. If you talk be able to back it up with something. And an all breed Brittany trial doesn't count.

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:25 pm

bb560m wrote:
3Britts wrote:I would think that you haven't been to many all breed trials then.
You would think so - unfortunately, I have...
I understand you are just trying to stir up trouble but we really don't need that on here. This was a serious topic and I think we need to keep it that way.

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by Johng918 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:12 am

Vision wrote:
Johng918 wrote:If I beat Kevin Van Dam fishing a stocked pond does that make a better fisherman?

Are you knocking trial dogs run on pen raised birds, or hunting dogs run on pen raised birds?

I'm not knocking either, I think each dog will excel in it's own venue but in my opinion it does not make one a better"bird dog" then the other, Ive seen both at work and would never take anything from either.

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by gotpointers » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:48 am

ultracarry wrote:

What's your dogs win percentage in placements again? Don't see a link to remek vizslas or your dogs name in your signature. If you talk be able to back it up with something. And an all breed Brittany trial doesn't count.
Lol!!! :D

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by JKP » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:49 am

I don't see how its possible to call dogs that trial on wild game as anyhting else but bird dogs.

However, for all others, it takes time and exposure to make any dog into a an accomplished dog on wild game. Its not the easy birds that define a dog...or the easy retrieve. There are also some talents i need from a wild game dog that they may not be able to develop on trials....relocate continuously til an old rooster in pinned down...knowing to stand well off sharpies...and such. Great dogs are born with the potential...great hands and time on the ground make them that way.

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by Ricky Ticky Shorthairs » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:03 am

JKP wrote:I don't see how its possible to call dogs that trial on wild game as anyhting else but bird dogs.

However, for all others, it takes time and exposure to make any dog into a an accomplished dog on wild game. Its not the easy birds that define a dog...or the easy retrieve. There are also some talents i need from a wild game dog that they may not be able to develop on trials....relocate continuously til an old rooster in pinned down...knowing to stand well off sharpies...and such. Great dogs are born with the potential...great hands and time on the ground make them that way.
+1 That's a great answer!!

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by Trekmoor » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:19 am

I agree, that is a great answer. My trial dogs worked on shoots and my dogs that worked on shoots trialed. I always thought that if they were good at doing both they were good dogs and worth breeding from.

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by Wenaha » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:05 pm

I don't post here much, but I see this provocative nonsense on a lot of bird dog and bird hunting bulletin boards.

A trial dog is required to handle, cover the ground, find and stand birds. To win he must do it better than other dogs in the trial and do it with speed and style.

A hunting dog is required to handle, cover the ground, find and stand birds. He need not be better, or fast, or stylish.

As for the question of what does "good bird dog" mean? I guess this depends on whose eyes are seeing the dog... to determine which dog is a "good bird dog" would require a contest under the eyes of people qualified to judge which dog is good/best. This is how field trials got started.
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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by Johng918 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:43 pm

Wenaha wrote:I don't post here much, but I see this provocative nonsense on a lot of bird dog and bird hunting bulletin boards.

A trial dog is required to handle, cover the ground, find and stand birds. To win he must do it better than other dogs in the trial and do it with speed and style.

A hunting dog is required to handle, cover the ground, find and stand birds. He need not be better, or fast, or stylish.

As for the question of what does "good bird dog" mean? I guess this depends on whose eyes are seeing the dog... to determine which dog is a "good bird dog" would require a contest under the eyes of people qualified to judge which dog is good/best. This is how field trials got started.
If that is all you require out of a good hunting dog I have a few good hunting dogs I'll sale you.

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by Wenaha » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:15 pm

Johng918 wrote:
Wenaha wrote:...A hunting dog is required to handle, cover the ground, find and stand birds. He need not be better, or fast, or stylish.
If that is all you require out of a good hunting dog I have a few good hunting dogs I'll sale you.
Most of the 'hunting dogs' that I've seen run - from Canada to Arizona and Texas - can't even do the minimum as described.

I don't need any "hunting dogs", thanks.
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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by Johng918 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:46 pm

Most of the 'hunting dogs' that I've seen run - from Canada to Arizona and Texas - can't even do the minimum as described.

I don't need any "hunting dogs", thanks.[/quote]

Most trial dogs I see lose does this mean they are know good? Comments like your last one is the reason this topic never works!

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by Retiredbirddogman » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:00 pm

This has been like a car wreck I couldn't stop watching .

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by 3Britts » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:45 pm

Francois P vd Walt wrote:IMO a good bird finder will do well in both trial and hunting ! Decipline makes the dogs excel in trials. Going to trials will give you a good idea what is out there.

Better for someone wanting a dog to go to some trials on a variety of breeds, that will help you decide on what you like.

Now I am gonna get popcorn and a coke ..........
Good post. Trials are a good way of seeing many different breeds, and how they hunt, at one time.
But,, in many cases, there is a difference in a winning dog at a trial and a dogs that produces in the field.

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by DGFavor » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:36 pm

In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of a dog's worth as a birddog?
For the most part trials are only as good for birddogdom as the grounds and game they are ran on as well as the pair of rears in the judges seats. I do think there is some significant value to birddogdom from dogs that seem to come out on top at multiple different venues on multiple different birds from multiple different judges.
Do you think it's okay for someone to breed specifically for dogs that will win trials without any regard for how they will be as hunting dogs?
I think folks can breed for whatever floats their boats - it's up to the consumer to do their due diligence to evaluate if a breeding will likely float their boat as well! :wink:

At the Favor house we excel at getting our butts kicked at both hunting and field trialing!! They gotta be serviceable at doing a lot of things - hunting, trialing, pets, guarddogs...they don't hafta be great at anything - and they excel at that!! :lol:

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by deseeker » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:17 pm

DG---
Nice slide show :!: I always like looking at your pictures :D

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by SetterNut » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:13 pm

I like to bird hunt, but I have run a few trials for something to do in the off season.

So far I am yet to see a good trial dog that was not a good bird hunting dog.
But I have seen many non trial dogs that were not much use as a bird dog.

The standards that the dogs are held to in trials are tighter and require more training than most bird hunter want or maybe need. But it takes a quality dog to reach those standards. Those qualities are what we want in our hunting dogs. The run off self hunters don't win trials, the bidable, bird finders, with intensity and desire do.

Most of us once we buy a dog, they are part of the family. We make the best bird dogs out of them as we can. You dance with the one that brung ya.
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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by dan v » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:02 pm

deseeker wrote:DG---
Nice slide show :!: I always like looking at your pictures :D
Don't let Favor fool ya...his life suxs. :lol:
Dan

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by ultracarry » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:15 pm

3Britts wrote:
bb560m wrote:
3Britts wrote:Let's see. Shorthairs tend to orver run game, chew downed bird, and generally have noses that mislead. Britts tend to find game at any range, have soft mouths, and know the difference between "bleep" and game birds. You can also keep them in the house.
As for the "little groundhog, crack, even my smalles britt, Summer, tends to out run Shorthairs, Setters, and EPs at trials. 8)

Now back to the original question: Trials will show you the scope of the dog's run, its intensity, and something of its nose, but as has been mentioned before, it dogs do get DQ'd for relocating and other desirable hunting traits.
I've never seen a Britt win an all breed trial b/c they can't point... so whatever you think :).
I would think that you haven't been to many all breed trials then.
4 3rd place puppy Derby finishes and your calling him out. Nice! Must have been to a lot of trials also to get those four placements....

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by Wenaha » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:07 pm

Johng918 wrote: Most trial dogs I see lose does this mean they are know good? Comments like your last one is the reason this topic never works!
Not sure what you're trying to say here... but I think that you prove my original point.

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by nikegundog » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:19 pm

BirdDogz sure could add alot to this conversation!

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:28 pm

nikegundog wrote:BirdDogz sure could add alot to this conversation!
WE still got Ultra
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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by ultracarry » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:45 pm

I made it back just for you ezzy. Pretty busy lately but had a feeling you missed me after a few drinks.

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Re: In your opinion, are trials a true gauge of...

Post by Nick Miles » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:41 am

IMO trials are the best comparison we have to judge to a standard. However trials can be won by average dogs with good bird manners. A lot of good bird dogs don't win trials.

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